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Was The Witcher 3 downgrade really that controversial?

GreyHorace

Member
So WhatCulture did a video on the 10 Worst Video Game Downgrades That Pissed Off EVERYONE, and I was surprised to see The Witcher 3 on the thumbnail and listed there at number 6.



Now, I admit to being a huge fan of the game and perhaps a little biased, but was the downgrade really a big issue for people? I'll admit that the graphics were downgraded from what we were shown in The Sword of Destiny trailer. For comparison:

XMTb8ncQ6N1WXg4lEnZuAuOvZYudWC3gGTf0S-2wZOU.jpg


Despite that, I was still blown away by the visuals that we got in the final game. And I've never really been much of a graphics whore so a downgrade never really bothered me. The graphics are just one part of the whole game and at the time I thought The Witcher 3's visuals were way ahead of other open world games until Red Dead Redemption 2. And I admire the fact that CDProjektRed acknowledge the controversy head on.

But what say you GAF? Was there every any real controversy here?
 
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I think it was overblown. The games character models still hold up pretty well. Even the sunrises and sunsets are some of the best in an open world title this gen.
 

Husky

THE Prey 2 fanatic
It was a pretty glaring downgrade--if you're looking at comparison videos. Without them, I'm not sure anyone would notice. The visuals are still so striking.
That said, I still played through with a few graphics mods, and the HD textures mods were much-needed.

But the game's nature simulation--its diverse foliage, its weather, clouds, and the lighting from the sun. No matter the textures, LODs, or dynamic light sources, those nature effects are what really makes the game blow me away.
 

GreyHorace

Member
But the game's nature simulation--its diverse foliage, its weather, clouds, and the lighting from the sun. No matter the textures, LODs, or dynamic light sources, those nature effects are what really makes the game blow me away.

This. So much. The nature simulation really helped in building up the game's atmosphere. It's one reason why I can't stand to play Dragon Age Inquisition. It's open world looks so dull and lifeless because they didn't bother to do any weather effects to help sell the fantasy setting.

7kMGb3pB8w29sXmxXoEOj7N5h67ClVh-oaxHJu34H3A_390x400_1x-0.jpeg
 

iorek21

Member
The downgrade was very disappointing for me and it really bothered me for a while. The differences can be huge sometimes, even if it still looks good; the biggest difference seemed to be in vegetation/color palette, and I was really digging the original grimy colors.

For me it was a downgrade on the level of Dark Souls 2, but with less heat against CDPR.

The overall gaming community didn’t give much thought to this because TW3 was a amazing game, but I still find the downgrade on this level unacceptable.

Luckly, CP2077 looks 10 times better than TW3 and it seems that nothing essential was really changed since reveal
 

Husky

THE Prey 2 fanatic
This. So much. The nature simulation really helped in building up the game's atmosphere. It's one reason why I can't stand to play Dragon Age Inquisition. It's open world looks so dull and lifeless because they didn't bother to do any weather effects to help sell the fantasy setting.

7kMGb3pB8w29sXmxXoEOj7N5h67ClVh-oaxHJu34H3A_390x400_1x-0.jpeg
And I can't believe I forgot to mention The Witcher 3's wind. So much of that game really brought its world to life. I played Witcher 3 shortly after Mad Max and MGSV, and so was keenly aware of the downgrades in animation and facial modeling, but still its world was more impressive.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
Yes the downgrade is disappointing and noticeable. Here is an interview with CDPR that gets into it:


They say it just wasn't feasible to do the game that way, but 5 years later, new PCs should be able to handle it easily. I know it's not as easy as flipping a switch or changing a INI but this is why games like Crysis got more appreciated as time went on.
 
So WhatCulture did a video on the 10 Worst Video Game Downgrades That Pissed Off EVERYONE, and I was surprised to see The Witcher 3 on the thumbnail and listed there at number 6.



Now, I admit to being a huge fan of the game and perhaps a little biased, but was the downgrade really a big issue for people? I'll admit that the graphics were downgraded from what we were shown in The Sword of Destiny trailer. For comparison:

XMTb8ncQ6N1WXg4lEnZuAuOvZYudWC3gGTf0S-2wZOU.jpg


Despite that, I was still blown away by the visuals that we got in the final game. And I've never really been much of a graphics whore so a downgrade never really bothered me. The graphics are just one part of the whole game and at the time I thought The Witcher 3's visuals were way ahead of other open world games until Red Dead Redemption 2. And I admire the fact that CDProjektRed acknowledge the controversy head on.

But what say you GAF? Was there every any real controversy here?


I followed the matter rather closely.
Here are the facts:

Fact #1:
The hype surrounding TW3 gained momentum when the VGX promo trailer was shown in December 2013, at the VGX Awards hosted by Geoff Keighley. Over a blank black screen, the very first thing the trailer has to say is that the following will be "in-game footage".

Fact #2:
Subsequent promo material suggested the possibility of a downgrade, something which was on everyone's mind after the Watchdogs' fiasco. When asked about it, then community Manager Marcin Momot denied it in the most explicit terms. He categorially stated the visual fidelity shown in the VGX trailer would be there in the final game.

Fact #3:
Another CDPR community manager called forum members who kept mentioning the downgrade, quote, "tools". His derision went on for quite a while.

Fact #4:
The topic was forbidden on CDPR official forums. Bans were issued left and right to anyone who discussed it. Moderators not only deleted posts, but actively took part in the discussions claiming the downgrade wasn't real. Some went so far as editing member posts. Sardukhar, for example, who's still a mod there, ridiculed members by inserting clip art ponies in posts he disagreed with. He even edited a few to say the opposite of what the poster meant.

Fact #5:
Around the time when the Elder Blood trailer came out, a year later, in December 2014, CDPR claimed the perceived differences were due to YouTube compression/encoding problems. Several forum members who were also youtubers or simply knowledgeable called bullshit on the claim. To this day, Elder Blood footage is still representative of what the vanilla game looks like. CDPR never replaced the original video with another where the alleged encoding/compression problems had been corrected.

Fact #6:
After the controversy blew up, a dev commented saying the VGX trailer was merely aspirational and that the game wasn't even playable at the time. He didn't address the "in-game footage" CDPR desired to stamp on it, though.

Fact #7:
There was never a formal candid acknowledgement of the downgrade by CDPR, including by Marcin Moot, who has since been promoted. Fans got some vague allusions but nothing forthright. They never came clean.

Fact #8:
Digital Foundry published a number of videos on the matter. Here are three:








Fact #9:

Even today. with the panoply of mods available, it's still very difficult to achieve the kind of visual fidelity showcased in the VGX trailer. Not only were the draw distances, textures, asset quality and lighting depreciated, but the art direction also underwent some changes, which is a sepratae subject altogether.

Conclusion: The downgrade was real and repeatedly denied by CDPR.

The game still managed to look gorgeous at launch. You're more than welcome to think that's enough. You may think it's a great AAA RPG whose overall quality more than makes up for any downgrade. In the grand scheme of things the downgrade doesn't really matter or bother you.

What you can't reasonably do is deny it existed and that CDPR did go though an acute censorious denial phase. It is no coincidence their official forums haven't recovered since and for the most part remain a deserted and uneventful place to this day.
 
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GreyHorace

Member
I followed the matter rather closely.
Here are the facts:

Fact #1:
The hype surrounding TW3 gained momentum when the VGX promo trailer was shown in December 2013, at the VGX Awards hosted by Geoff Keighley, Over a blank black screen, the very first thing the trailer has to say is that the following will be "in-game footage".

Fact #2:
Subsequent promo material suggested a downgrade had happened, a possibility which was on everyone's minds after the Watchdogs' fiasco. When asked about it, then community Manager Marcin Momot denied the downgrade in the most explicit terms possible. He categorically stated the visual fidelity shown in the VGX trailer would be there the final game.

Fact #3:
Another CDPR community manager called forum members who kept mentioning the downgrade, quote, "tools". His derision went on for quite a while.

Fact #4:
The topic was forbidden on CDPR official forums. Bans were issued left and right to anyone who dared discussing it. Moderators not only deleted posts, but actively took part in the discussions claiming no downgrade existed. They went so far as editing member posts. Sardukhar, who's still a mod there, ridiculed members by inserting cartoony clip art on posts he disagreed with. He even edited a few posts to say the opposite of what the poster meant.

Fact #5:
When the downgrade became undeniable, around the time when the Elder Blood trailer came out, CDPR claimed the perceived differences were due to YouTube compression/encoding problems. To this day, that footage is still representative of the vanilla game.

Fact#6:
After the controversy blew up, a dev commented saying the VGX trailer was merely aspirational and that the game wasn't even playable at the time. He didn't address the "in-game footage" CDPR desired to stamp on it.

Fact#7:
There was never a formal candid acknowledgement of the downgrade by CDPR, including by Marcin Moot, who has since been promoted. We got some vague allusions but nothing forthright. They never came clean.

Fact#8:
Digital Foundry published a number of videos on the matter. Here are three:








Fact#9:

Even today. with the panoply of mods available, it's still very difficult to achieve the kind of visual fidelity showcased in the VGX trailer. Not only were the draw distances, textures, asset quality and lighting depreciated, but the art direction also underwent some changes.

Conclusion: The downgrade was real, repeatedly denied by CDPR, the topic was extensively censored on the official forums and members who called it were systematically persecuted.

The game still managed to look gorgeous at launch. You're more than welcome to think that's enough and what's most important. You can't however deny the downgrade existed and you can't deny the censorious reprehensible denial phase CDPR went though. It is no coincidence CDPR official forums haven't recovered and remain a mostly deserted uneventful place to this day.


Thanks for the writeup. So CDProjektRed acted like Bioware did when the Mass Effect 3 ending shitshow blew up on their official forums and banned any sort of discussion with regards to it.

At least The Witcher 3 didn't go the way ME3 and became a disaster. Still though, it's disappointing that a company known for being fan friendly had to act like dicks on this issue.
 

Fbh

Member
The game is still amazing and looks great but the visual downgrade was disappointing. Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
CDPR wasn't very open about it and did some shady stuff like having pre downgrade trailers up on the PSN store just weeks before release.
 

Siri

Banned
If you’re asking each of us if the downgrade bothered us - then, yes, it bothered me.

The promotional footage (touted to be in-game) was mind-blowing for its day - the actual finished game.... not so much.

The debate here isn’t whether or not The Witcher 3 was a good looking game at launch,, but rather if there was a downgrade, and was it significant, and did CDPR basically lie about its game, the answer being yes to all three.
 

Rikoi

Member
No.
I remember back then when it was released my PC couldn't handle it, I had to wait until I upgraded to a 970.
The graphics were cool, especially character models.
Though I never experienced the console version so I wouldn't know about that.
 
it's not really a downgrade when all you had before was conceptual CGI.

have the game try to match that is always a problem
 

GermanZepp

Member
The game was beautiful. CD made the mistake with the trailers that showed milliseconds of packed scenes with more detail, dynamic elements and characters. I couldn't finish the game though, the control, the fighting, the tiny menu. I quit 40 hours in, I get bored in the quest that makes you go through the bard girlfriends
 

Dontero

Banned
Yeah they had to cut down a lot of thing to make it playable on consoles and CDPR outright said that console version allows them to do more (due to sales) which means they had to make those cuts as making two separate version was simply not possible for them.

So they butchered LOD, grass, effects, physic system and other things.

On other hand they improved a lot of things. Like PBR rendering which was not present in that early trailers which was added later. Lighting itself also got huge upgrade which allowed to make really beautiful things. Art design also got huge boost and NPCs armor and clothes went to 11.

The Witcher 3 despite the cuts is still one of the most beautiful games currently:

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Rikkori

Member
Controversial? Nah, only the biggest trolls cry about it, just like they do in the Cyberpunk threads, absolutely desperate to find reasons to hate. Just ignore & move on, they have nothing of value to offer.
 
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