EastOfEden
Member
They're not necessarily oblivious, but seeing as they gave Bayonetta many attacks that actual sex offenders have used - without Bayonetta actually raping any of her enemies - the same thing can be applied to Rodin.
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Was there implied rape in Bayonetta 1 and 2? *spoilers*
- Thread starter Afrocious
- Start date
They're not necessarily oblivious, but seeing as they gave Bayonetta many attacks that actual sex offenders have used - without Bayonetta actually raping any of her enemies - the same thing can be applied to Rodin.
not psycho
Member
It is clearly not implying rape, but is also definitely uncomfortable to watch. It's because it is a male character with a sexually suggestive and sexually referenced fighting, it doesn't feel the same as Bayonetta doing it.
TheUntamedLegend
Member
Bayonetta herself displays this same behavior, in an even more explicit fashion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Givv2SwAgDA
If you consider the Rodin attack rape, then surely this is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Givv2SwAgDA
If you consider the Rodin attack rape, then surely this is.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Probably the biggest reason I'm reluctant to say it's straight-up rape, though I guess the argument could be made it's not canon since that fight is fuckin hard.
Either that or sex (sadomasochism especially) being deeply ingrained in Bayonetta's character prevents her from being fazed by that. I'm reminded that Kamiya wasn't upset people were drawing porn of her but that they were making her submissive. Just another thing to show that Rodin is just that fuckin strong that it turns the developer's MO upside down.
Sparrowhawk
Member
Why doesn't someone just send Kamiya a Tweet?
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Surely the issue here isn't fictional context so much as it is the use of tasteless imagery?
That's just an enemy being pulled apart though with bouncy tits.
TheUntamedLegend
Member
On a wooden horse.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I agree. This is rape about as much as Bayonetta torturing her enemies is. Rodin is not portrayed as a rapist in either game. If anyone had the same take away after playing the game multiple threads would have been made on various sites back when the first game came out.
I can understand how without context someone could come away with that but I would think that the video gamey Raging Demon sfx would have portrayed otherwise.
Nope. We are still talking about Bayonetta, correct? An over the top, M RATED, overly sexualized character action game about a vixen who kills demons with S&M attacks. I'm not saying its super classy, I just don't see the issue with it.
It didn't seem like a huge problem for people 5 years ago, but I understand most people in the thread haven't actually played the games being discussed.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
cosmicblizzard
Banned
He'll just respond with how disappointed their moms are in them.
RocketRacoon
Member
I don't believe you searched Bayonetta rape and found no results.
As someone who's completed both games myself, I'm surprised at how some folks don't question how this is the only attack in the games that removes her clothes along with take all her HP away, coupled with the fact Rodin is kinda laying there with the cigar (again).
I mean yeah, he's always smoking his cigar but even in context, this is tasteless IMO.
I mean yeah, he's always smoking his cigar but even in context, this is tasteless IMO.
How do you not see the issue with implied rape (your words) in a video game. On a Nintendo console no less.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
I tell 10000000 times I block smash/star fox/pc/rape idiots!!
Or something to that effect.
she's laying there naked with her hand over her ass and the enemy is smoking a fucking cigarette. cmon.
he's smoking a cigarette. what more do you want, them to put up a sign saying "fucking occured"?
cmon, guys, you aren't stupid.
I'm more disturbed that the first thing you see is rape though lol. If you didn't play the game and just saw part or image then yeah I understand but if you played it and saw for yourself you won't think of it as rape.
It's suggestive, but it's a fight where Bayo loses her control of her powers, thus her clothes/hair losing. And Rodin just smokes as per usual. And Rodin never acts as a rapist nor the suggest he has some sexual desire or anything to any female characters in the game.
And it would have been discussed in the internet long ago if it was indeed implied as rape anyway.
It's suggestive, but it's a fight where Bayo loses her control of her powers, thus her clothes/hair losing. And Rodin just smokes as per usual. And Rodin never acts as a rapist nor the suggest he has some sexual desire or anything to any female characters in the game.
And it would have been discussed in the internet long ago if it was indeed implied as rape anyway.
cpp_is_king
Member
Are suggestions of rape really more offensive than actual depictions of murder? Shouldn't we be more outraged over games like Mortal Kombat? I dont think sub zero was too happy about getting his heart ripped out of his chest by scorpions grappling hook.
Whenever the media talks about violence and video games, gamers are quick to jump on it and say there's no connection, it's just art. Why do we need a double standard here? Why should this be censored into non existence?
Its weird that im arguing this because i dont even like this franchise exactly because of how over sexualized it is, but that doesn't mean we should apply a different standard.
Whenever the media talks about violence and video games, gamers are quick to jump on it and say there's no connection, it's just art. Why do we need a double standard here? Why should this be censored into non existence?
Its weird that im arguing this because i dont even like this franchise exactly because of how over sexualized it is, but that doesn't mean we should apply a different standard.
SlaughterX
Banned
TheUntamedLegend
Member
I never smoke after ra... I mean sex, shit will kill you, bro.
Stay classy.
I mean, Bayonetta humiliates tons and tons of enemies throughout the game, no one really matches her power to "return the favor". Yeah, the enemies for the most part aren't humanoid or deserve empathy, but viewing what Rodin does as straight up rapes feels reductionist.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Wtf I've never seen/noticed this before. That is so gross. Something to consider when recommending these games to people.
LyleLanley
Banned
I'm pretty sure I saw an article or two about this pop up a couple of weeks ago. At least this whole thing seems familiar to me.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaFkiPdzAJ4 This is the closest she's ever been to death in the first game canonically, still clothed, and also here's the game over screen,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX9EoCYD7bo, still clothed. Unless she loses her powers at some point in the story of 2?
maneil99
Member
No, because rape is tastless in any situation, murder in games often has justification, ie bad guys. Rape has no place in being use lightheartedly, you don't realize how bad it is until you see a close member of your family or friend suffer from it.
SlaughterX
Banned
Hmm... I can see a live action Bayonetta with Emma...
dickgumshoe
Member
But why even include shit like this in the game in the first place? What purpose does it have?
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I think CosmicBlizzard summed it up nicely.
Or you can wait for the inevitable Kamiya tweet.
Crimsonlink
Member
The problem with both scenes in each game is that there is no after scenes when you lose. You don't see Bayo's face or any attempt at talking or thoughts because the scene ends at that. You either continue the game/battle or you don't.
So I wouldn't call this rape since there is no context to base it off of after the scene occurs. Yes the implication of having sex is there, that I can agree with completely. Forced or not is another question that is difficult to say outright.
But rape is not what I would call it now that I know a bit about how their regular relationship works and how the scene just ends like it does in game. Rape is a hot button topic as its always been since the beginning and under even more scrutiny with gaming culture lately. I'd rather not make mountains out of molehills that rape is in Bayo 1 and 2.
So I wouldn't call this rape since there is no context to base it off of after the scene occurs. Yes the implication of having sex is there, that I can agree with completely. Forced or not is another question that is difficult to say outright.
But rape is not what I would call it now that I know a bit about how their regular relationship works and how the scene just ends like it does in game. Rape is a hot button topic as its always been since the beginning and under even more scrutiny with gaming culture lately. I'd rather not make mountains out of molehills that rape is in Bayo 1 and 2.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Yes, the developer simply had no choice in this matter. Of course they needed to make her naked; it's canonically accurate. What else could they do? Leaving them on like every other time Bayonetta's HP reaches zero? And of course Rodin needs to smoke: it's would be out of character otherwise, considering that he never, ever stops smoking even more a little moment.
That the resulting scene conjures a familiar after-sex imagery in visual media is just a coincidence, surely.
Benzychenz
Member
Not worth it.
Domstercool
Member
In regards to the story, Bayonetta doesn't get sent to Inferno until a player chooses not to continue.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Forgive me if this is a bit short --- I'm on my phone and this is a bit of a fetal, under-read thought --- but I don't think we live in a world where all potential combinations of roles in a scene carry the same weight.
not psycho
Member
It is indeed a very clear reference to sex. I'm pretty sure I've seen the same joke in multiple movies or tv shows (people fighting, and after they win the fight, light a cigarette and say "was it good for you?"). What makes this uncomfortable is Bayonetta being naked, but discomfort aside it is not implying sex actually happened. It is taking a sexual reference out of its usual context, putting it in a fight instead.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
She's still clothed when the player chooses no.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
To be fair, there's lots of murder in games with no justification.
But this is not the topic for that.
cpp_is_king
Member
It often has justification, but it often doesn't. And i admit ive never known anyone who's been raped, and by all means im sure it would be horrible, but im not seeing how it would be worse than murder.
Eh, there are fates far worse than death. Is rape one of them? Depends on the individual entirely.
RecursiveFault
Banned
Are we ignoring the fact that Rodin smokes all the time during both of the game, and that Bayo loses her clothes all the time during the game?
Apparently Street Fighter references are totally rape, and saying it's a street fighter reference is somehow dismissive.
If you want to make a mountain out of a molehill, feel free, but I doubt anyone who's calling this out understands the context.
Apparently Street Fighter references are totally rape, and saying it's a street fighter reference is somehow dismissive.
If you want to make a mountain out of a molehill, feel free, but I doubt anyone who's calling this out understands the context.
Is this your whole question? If you have something to say, by all means say it. I honestly don't know what you're getting at. I said I don't have an issue and your question is literally "How?" I don't see this conversation going very far at this pace.