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Analysis Watch Dogs Legion - Xbox Series X/S Ray Tracing vs PC RTX - Features, Quality, Performance + More

Dinky

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It was a given that AMD will be behind NVIDIA in RT. So console GPU comparison against 2060S when RT is involved is not surprising. In rasterization though, both consoles are above 2060S.
Yes, but Alex's PS5 comparison video was based around RT so it made sense in that regard, but many people ignored the context and proceeded to cry about bias and how he apparently hates consoles and is on Microsoft payroll... You know, the usual stuff we get here.
 

Elios83

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Since the consoles run the same settings one of the consoles has to be compromised either in FPS or resolution.

Have you seen what happened in AC Valhalla?Same settings, they're the same,actually even slightly more stable frame rate on PS5.
 

Leonidas

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Have you seen what happened in AC Valhalla?Same settings, they're the same,actually even slightly more stable frame rate on PS5.

AC Valhalla has no ray-tracing. I'm interested in where console RT performance lands...
 

rodrigolfp

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I didn't say they couldn't, you'd expect them to when they cost more than a whole console, this has always been the case it's nothing new.
Not always. Xbox 360 Xenos performed better than the best card on the market on its launch.
 

Dnice123

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Main thing I got from the video is that Series S is a damn good system. Doing comparable ray tracing at $299? Yeah I know its at a lower res, but I couldn't tell the difference in motion.
 
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My 2060 Super is laughing right now :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Same. What's crazy is that this is slightly higher quality in the PC config, it wasn't using DLSS, and it was a 2060S at stock settings leaving another 7-10% perf on the table from OC alone.
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Nice to see XSS kick One X in the nuts right off the bat. Those incomplete, stuttering cube map building reflections look awful on One X.
 

Valued Gamer

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Whatever "level" the PS4 and Xbox One were on, the launch games looked significantly better than what was on Xbox 360 and PS3, which were very old consoles at the time.

The PS4 and Xbox One had mid-cycle refreshes in that of the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. I think that's part of why we are not seeing a leap in graphical quality at launch. Without the One X especially, the Series X would look so much better.

And it goes without saying that the pandemic probably resulted in some launch or near-launch games being delayed.
I agree. Not only that but due to PC cards getting up dated every year, we are used to the gradual improvement in IQ more often, so again there doesn't seem to be a next gen pop.
 

MrFunSocks

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Holyshit I got so bored I couldn't even finish the video. does he post these videos to justify his job at DF ?

hey look that reflection of the building on that puddle of water is low res when i zoom it 400x ... who the #$#$ gives a #$@# #@$#@ #@$@#$ #@$#@ ??????

I love my PC and 2080ti. i love my XSX and my PS5 on the way, but this is god damn too much :/

focus on the things that friggin actually matter. will never notice any of this shit while i am playing at all.



what ? no . its between 2080 and 2080 super
This video just confirmed to me that these zoomed in analysis are worthless.

For Alex all these differences are “obvious” but I never notice them until he stops the game and decides to focus on a bit part.

Must be excruciating to be in his shoes, being such a stickler for diminishing returns.
Do you guys not understand what digital foundry does? If that’s your takeaway from their videos then they’re not the channel for you. That’s fine, just don’t watch them.
 

Lethal01

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Also, PS5 and XSX seem to be running at the same settings.



Fact is, these consoles are the very first piece of AMD hardware with RT on the market, so we're just learning what it can do.

More importantly these are literally the first games to use AMD raytracing while devs have had a couple years to get used to NVIDIA

Let's wait a year or two before we really compare.
 

Lethal01

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The ironic thing is that i have a none RTX card, and if you turn reflections onto the highest settings, they look gorgeous in this game, even though its not RT.
Yeah i'd take framerate over RT anyday.

Disagreed, even the best screen space and cubemap reflections look like shit compared to even an "okay" Raytracing solution.
I've been waiting a decade to be free of the shit.
 
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Same. What's crazy is that this is slightly higher quality in the PC config, it wasn't using DLSS, and it was a 2060S at stock settings leaving another 7-10% perf on the table from OC alone.
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Nice to see XSS kick One X in the nuts right off the bat. Those incomplete, stuttering cube map building reflections look awful on One X.
Same, I have 2070s + 8700k, tons of RAM and SSDs.
Probably will stay on PC for multiplats (cheaper prices + gamepass)

Also NVIDIA is crazy for pushing RT to mass-market. AMD is forced to answer as they can because they know - when next-gen starts PC will have an edge in form of RT and all PC fanboys will start to shit on consoles/new GPUs. Which is not a good scenario for AMD.
 
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//DEVIL//

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Looks like a 2060S at native 4k (no DLSS) and console settings compares favourably with XSX and presumably PS5 although not yet tested.

Raytracing is always going to be difficult on these consoles but I have to admit it does look good on XSX compared to X1X despite the compromises that had to be made.
Do you guys not understand what digital foundry does? If that’s your takeaway from their videos then they’re not the channel for you. That’s fine, just don’t watch them.
I watch them for head to head . This ray tracing bullshit needs to go . Focus on things that matter . Yes mention ray tracing in your video but not the whole a video about it . Where is cod head to head or other stuff that actually matters ?
 
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MrFunSocks

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I watch them for head to head . This ray tracing bullshit needs to go . Focus on things that matter . Yes mention ray tracing in your video but not the whole a video about it . Where is cod head to head or other stuff that actually matters ?
DFs entire point of existence is for in depth technical analysis, not just “head to head” to fan fanboy wars. It’s for the people that genuinely care about the tech and behind the scenes stuff. It was hijacked by fanboys as a means of console warring, but that doesn’t change its purpose.

DF just isn’t for you. Go watch any of the other comparisons that don’t focus on the nitty gritty if all you care about is console wars.

btw ray tracing is one of the biggest and most important advances in graphics in a looooong time. It’s not going anywhere and it’s only going to get more and more focus.
 
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//DEVIL//

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DFs entire point of existence is for in depth technical analysis, not just “head to head” to fan fanboy wars. It’s for the people that genuinely care about the tech and behind the scenes stuff. It was hijacked by fanboys as a means of console warring, but that doesn’t change its purpose.

DF just isn’t for you. Go watch any of the other comparisons that don’t focus on the nitty gritty if all you care about is console wars.

btw ray tracing is one of the biggest and most important advances in graphics in a looooong time. It’s not going anywhere and it’s only going to get more and more focus.
I don’t care about fanboy stuff . I just want to know which version for example I wanna buy . Like today for example I went blind with the ps5 version of cod . Thankfully I lucked out because the controller and the game is awesome on ps5
 

Bonfires Down

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Would have been nice to see the performance difference between RT Medium and Config Low. I'd still go with medium unless the difference is large.
 

MrFunSocks

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I don’t care about fanboy stuff . I just want to know which version for example I wanna buy . Like today for example I went blind with the ps5 version of cod . Thankfully I lucked out because the controller and the game is awesome on ps5
Has there been a comparison of the 2? You want to see comparisons but then you buy without seeing one? Am I missing something here?
 

01011001

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Sorry if I missed it but this game is out on PS5 too, right?

Has anyone compared the RT between the two?

the video literally has a complete settings list.
the settings are 100% identical between SX and PS5.

honestly, it couod most likely run slightly higher settings on SX. the dynamic object distance in the RT reflections could be pushed out a bit since that is mostly a CPU bound setting... but given how badly optimised the game is I guess they went the save route
 

xPikYx

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This analysis finally answer to the question

"how come a 500£ console can run a game like a 1000£ PC? People used to say, consoles are more optimized that's why.

Of course, but optimization actually is" using hidden tricks "that the eye doesn't recognize in movement and with an actual comparative parameter to compare it with. So the end result is that people just" think" to play the game at a certain quality whereas in reality the game is running at much lower quality.

Regarding series X also people states it is better than a 2080ti but in reality this is just potentially, as we can see it operates in a range between 2060super and in BEST CASE SCENARIO a 2080ti, and plus by buying a PC you can still get an imperceptible better visual quality.

VFX Veteran has always been right

I couldn't read from my phone what are the ps5 values, are the same of the series X or different?
 

//DEVIL//

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Has there been a comparison of the 2? You want to see comparisons but then you buy without seeing one? Am I missing something here?
Yes . Devil may cry 5 special edition . And instead of talking about big aaa games that was just released, they talk about shadows in a puddle that are jaggies ....
 

regawdless

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Remember how much shit Alex got when he compared the PS5 GPU to a 2070 or 2060S in his early Spider-Man raytracing video? And how the console warriors ran rampant?

Good times.
 
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MastaKiiLA

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that video is confirmation bias at its best
I would agree with this, if he didn't have the receipts. He was able to peg the comparison very closely. I still don't agree with comparing AMD-based consoles with NVidia cards though. Their architectures aren't the same. I'd like to see how they compare to AMD cards, personally.
 

M1chl

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I would agree with this, if he didn't have the receipts. He was able to peg the comparison very closely. I still don't agree with comparing AMD-based consoles with NVidia cards though. Their architectures aren't the same. I'd like to see how they compare to AMD cards, personally.
But there no chance of doing that still, as far as I know you cannot do RT on 5700XT...
 

Denton

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I still don't agree with comparing AMD-based consoles with NVidia cards though. Their architectures aren't the same. I'd like to see how they compare to AMD cards, personally.
That's dumb. Architectures may be different but what they are used to render is the same thing and how they render it between each other and how fast is in fact the whole point of the excercise.
 

VFXVeteran

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So watched it all and seems like a mix of medium and high PC settings for XSX and PS5 but some of the raytracing settings are lower than the lowest settings possible on PC without editing your config files.

So we finally know the truth. RT on these consoles are afterthoughts design-wise. Almost like they are software-based. They take up so much GPU resources it's not even worth the price of admission.

Also, RT reflections in WD is better than Spiderman MM. Not surprised here because of the above mention.
 
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DemonCleaner

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I would agree with this, if he didn't have the receipts. He was able to peg the comparison very closely. I still don't agree with comparing AMD-based consoles with NVidia cards though. Their architectures aren't the same. I'd like to see how they compare to AMD cards, personally.

well im actually a fan of Alex's work, that's why im aware of most of what he said not only in other videos but also on twitter. and with this video he doubled down on that 2060super theme. before that he said PS5 is 2060S level in rasterization (his logic there likely being that it has 36 CUs like the rx 5700 which is 2060S levels of power... not taking into account any arch improvements in rdna 2). that by now has clearly been proven complete bullshit.

Alex is not a good source when it comes to hardware analysis and his rather bizarre conclusio in this video* really showed that. he is doing really great work when it comes game engine content. but that are two rather different disciplines.


*amd's raytracing implementation might be worse than amperes and even turings, but basing that on one sample point is not sound. and that even if you don't acknowledge that WD legions RT implementation was done by nvidias field engineers and than backported to consoles afterwards.
 
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VFXVeteran

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The ironic thing is that i have a none RTX card, and if you turn reflections onto the highest settings, they look gorgeous in this game, even though its not RT.
Yeah i'd take framerate over RT anyday.

Nah Stuart360 Stuart360 . You gotta look at this a lot closer than you writing it off dude. The differences aren't even close. Think about reflections in the real world and what they are supposed to look like. You need quality bro. We can't be satisfied with crude approximations forever.
 
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VFXVeteran

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well im actually a fan of Alex's work, that's why im aware of most of what he said not only in other videos but also on twitter. and with this video he doubled down on that 2060super theme. before that he said PS5 is 2060S level in rasterization (his logic there likely being that it has 36 CUs like the rx 5700 which is 2060S levels of power... not taking into account any arch improvements in rdna 2). that by now has clearly been proven complete bullshit.

Alex is not a good source when it comes to hardware analysis and his rather bizarre conclusio in this video* really showed that. he is doing really great work when it comes game engine content. but that are two rather different disciplines.


*amd's raytracing implementation might be worse than amperes and even turings, but basing that on one sample point is not sound. and that even if you don't acknowledge that WD legions RT implementation was done by nvidias field engineers and than backported to consoles afterwards.

Huh? Can you explain what issue you have with what Alex has said about this video? Perhaps, I can chime in from a dev's perspective and give some perspective.
 
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VFXVeteran

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I watch them for head to head . This ray tracing bullshit needs to go . Focus on things that matter . Yes mention ray tracing in your video but not the whole a video about it . Where is cod head to head or other stuff that actually matters ?

RT is going to be a big factor in games. I don't think DF is reviewing games for their content. They will always do graphical analysis.
 

Esppiral

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They should compare last gen version with current gen versions, since I much Prefer how the game looks on Xbox One X than Xbox Series X, specially because the latter runs at lower resolution....

Guess which one is running on Series X and which one on the One X....





Can't see the difference? let me help you.







Specially in motion the blurrines and shimmering is quite awfull on Series X, the game just looks much cleaner and sharper (and higher resolution) on Xbox one X.
Really cubemaps and SSR do the job just right, the cost of Raytraced reflections in image quality is not worth the sacrifice....
 

FireFly

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So we finally know the truth. RT on these consoles are afterthoughts design-wise. Almost like they are software-based. They take up so much GPU resources it's not even worth the price of admission.

Also, RT reflections in WD is better than Spiderman MM. Not surprised here because of the above mention.
Ray traced reflections are still much nicer looking than cubemaps and SSR, and it appears that decreasing the geometric detail of reflections yields better visual return than decreasing the distance cutoff.
 

VFXVeteran

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Ray traced reflections are still much nicer looking than cubemaps and SSR, and it appears that decreasing the geometric detail of reflections yields better visual return than decreasing the distance cutoff.

It's better to have both geometry detail and increased distance cutoff.
 

VFXVeteran

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They should compare last gen version with current gen versions, since I much Prefer how the game looks on Xbox One X than Xbox Series X, specially because the latter runs at lower resolution....

Guess which one is running on Series X and which one on the One X....





Can't see the difference? let me help you.







Specially in motion the blurrines and shimmering is quite awfull on Series X, the game just looks much cleaner and sharper (and higher resolution) on Xbox one X.
Really cubemaps and SSR do the job just right, the cost of Raytraced reflections in image quality is not worth the sacrifice....

The 1X is inconsistent with the reflections from the real world and those in the actual puddle. I don't see this blurriness on the PC though.
 

FireFly

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It's better to have both geometry detail and increased distance cutoff.
Sure, but the question is whether if you can't afford ultra quality on all ray tracing effects, you can still use them intelligently to make worthwhile enhancements to image quality. And I think we have to hope the answer is yes, since it's in everyone's interest that ray tracing is made widely available. Otherwise, we're in a situation where even if you have a 1440p screen, you will need a 3080 to run at native resolution, or a 3070 with DLSS. And that's at 60 FPS, not the high refresh rates PC gamers have become accustomed to.
 
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