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[Saint Gregory]

Or maybe people should start taking responsibility of their own expectations rather than expecting a company to manage it for them.

Just a thought.

I don't even understand what you're trying to say here. If company "A" shows me footage of game "X" for two years I'm supposed to assume that the end result is going to be much worse?

Edit: Glad to see that I'm not the only one who's confused :lol

 

[bishoptl]

Or maybe people should start taking responsibility of their own expectations rather than expecting a company to manage it for them.

Just a thought.

What does this even mean?

 

[TyrantII]

March 2014

September 2014 media:

March 2014

September 2014 media:

Shrug. Seems like a bait and switch to me.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Or maybe people should start taking responsibility of their own expectations rather than expecting a company to manage it for them.

Just a thought.

.... what? They promised those graphics and are quoted saying they're better than the 2012 footage. We never said "we want this do it for us" they promised and teased it. When they don't deliver it you don't blame it on fans.

This is as bad as the "you can judge when you do it yourself" argument.

 

[TyrantII]

Ever since it's debut in E3 2012 we've seen the game countless of times on PS4 (and PC according to UBI) and it was obvious ever since than that there was a downgrade compared to the 2012 build, but still it didn't seem to draw much attention as much as now.

Easy. The actual gameplay downgrade wasn't nearly as severe as it is in the latest video.

Not really that hard.

It doesn't even look like they're rending at 1080P anymore, even though they stated the game is 1080P30 on PS4.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Is there any technical analysis that can tell us why this game looks worse? I can tell the cars lost the reflective surface but the rest I know looks worse but I can't quite tell why. The lighting changed that's for sure.

 

[Lemondish]

My issue with this entire thing is more to do with ubisoft then graphics. I've played and enjoyed the likes of thief, AC4 and ghosts despite looking like previous gen ports, so naff visuals isn't the main issue. The issue is those games where always shown as they turned out to be, wheras watchdogs they have shown us one thing and given us something else. If the reveal gameplay was indeed a proof of concept pipe dream in regards to atmosphere and visuals, then they should have said as much to curb our hype levels and exoectations. Instead they claim there has been no downgrade, when clearly there has, and continue to misslead us with bullshots. But they do this all the time, i'm just happy to see everyone lobying against it in a hige way for once. Even if i am crushed that the game i was psyched about looks dissapointing as hell now.

They haven't given us a single thing except a trailer. Nothing is available to buy. Nothing is being presented as a final product.

I'd completely understand this level of anger if you were tricked into buying it, but you haven't. In fact, its totally okay not to buy it, if you'd like to make that decision this soon. You're allowed to do that, you know, even if it's kind of premature. I think it's silly to pass judgment and get angry over something that hasn't actually happened yet, though. Sure, the trailer looks bad, and so does some broll footage from a single website of no real repute, but is that the final build or the game? Is that how it looks when you pop it into your PS4? That's impossible to say because the damn thing is still 3 months away.

 

[TyrantII]

A game that is running in 1080p native( from what we know) is being upscaled to 1080p.....wtf is this ps3 footage and we are being trolled by ubisoft.

Maybe some idiot intern sourced the last gen or XB1 version? Even if so, why are you giving technical and very visible work on a very important tentpole IP to a intern that understands technical details as well as IGN?

I don't know what the story is, but there's something wrong here. Either a major downgrade or a major F-Up by Ubi marketing. The later is a little less easy to contemplate seeing as this was a big media re-launch of sorts to start drumming up launch hype.

 

[omonimo]

It's quite weird graphically... In some moments seems ok, in others incredibly unappealing. Maybe because it's an open world game? But surely the first trailer of the story it's quite horrible in comparison to the older leaks. I'm surprised ubi hasn't noticed how terrible is it the last trailer .

 

[kudoboi]

March 2014

September 2014 media:

March 2014

September 2014 media:

Shrug. Seems like a bait and switch to me.

why are we comparing 720P screens from a video to press images that were probably running at 4K maxed out settings on PC?

edit: earlier in the thread people were saying that the video was 720P upscaled to 1080P. or did i read it out of context?

 

[Wishmaster92]

March 2014

September 2014 media:

March 2014

September 2014 media:

Shrug. Seems like a bait and switch to me.

We need a pixel counter to confirm if the video images are 1080p and what's blurring the image is the post aa, or if it is rendering at a lower res which i don't think it will because the game is 1080p/30fps (PS4), 960p/30fps (XB1) The screencaps are definitely blurred to high hell, which is strange because it's from a gamersyde vid.

 

[TyrantII]

why are we comparing 720P screens from a video to press images that were probably running at 4K maxed out settings on PC?

Probably should read my post first.

 

[omonimo]

why are we comparing 720P screens from a video to press images that were probably running at 4K maxed out settings on PC?

Source? Because it's a massive bullsshit what did you said.

 

[kriskrosbbk]

Guys, I actually can´t really understand the whole discussion. I mean of course, Ubisoft had to communicate technical differences better, but after all, the game looks still really good.

I already had the chance to play it for around 5 hours. Last year the PS4-version for 2 hours and last week for 2,5. Yes, there were some little technical issues, like cars apearing suddenly while driving fast on the other street side and some anti-aliasing weaknesses, but overall, it still looks very good and can easily compete with Assassin´s Creed on PS4.

The discussion is all about totally crazy comparings, the first PC footage confronted with PS4 gameplay, night-scenes with day-scenes, different light-scenarios, rain and sunshine. And yes, compared to that high end PC-version with all that exclusive Nvidia graphic-features, the PS4 looks worse. But I´m totally sure about, Ubisoft will improve it until the release and finally we get a great next-gen-experience with the release-version.

The gameplay is the most interesting part, and if you really worry more about the graphical look instead of thinking about the content, the dynamic situations, possibilities with NPCs and the AI, then you will probably miss one of the best upcoming games in a while. A new and fresh scenario, mixed with fast and dynamic gameplay with cool characters. Give that game a chance and if you want to see high-end graphics, get the PC-version!

Where did you have the chance to play it?You said 2 weeks ago . Was the build similar to this as quality: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z3iG2QlJXk&hd=1
Can you say this is PS4 gameplay?

 

[TyrantII]

We need a pixel counter to confirm if the video images are 1080p and what's blurring the image is the post aa, or if it is rendering at a lower res which i don't think it will because the game is 1080p/30fps (PS4), 960p/30fps (XB1) The screencaps are definitely blurred to high hell, which is strange because it's from a gamersyde vid.

Here's the best bitrate video out there, have at it: http://www.gamersyde.com/download_watch_dogs_story_trailer-31653_en.html

My caps are 1680X1050, but that should actually sharpen the image from the 1080P video.

It's just as soft and muddled on my 70" SXRD.

 

[DieH@rd]

You the best.

Sorry. I made new thread instead:

How Watch_Dogs looks on PS4 [heavy GIFz retrospective]

 

[Vash63]

I'm really hoping it's just the console versions that were downgraded. They obviously had it running at one point looking as good as the earlier videos.

I could understand if the XBone and PS4 weren't as powerful as they might have expected back in 2012. By any standards they're less 'next-gen' than the PS2 or X360 were at launch.

If it's truly just a lack of hardware power, I'd expect to see the PC version of this game have a very large graphical lead over the PS4/XBone.

 

[UnrealEck]

Ever since it's debut in E3 2012 we've seen the game countless of times on PS4 (and PC according to UBI) and it was obvious ever since than that there was a downgrade compared to the 2012 build, but still it didn't seem to draw much attention as much as now.

Where's the PC footage after the 2012 reveal?

 

[omonimo]

I'm really hoping it's just the console versions that were downgraded. They obviously had it running at one point looking as good as the earlier videos.

I could understand if the XBone and PS4 weren't as powerful as they might have expected back in 2012 . By any standards they're less 'next-gen' than the PS2 or X360 were at launch.

If it's truly just a lack of hardware power, I'd expect to see the PC version of this game have a very large graphical lead over the PS4/XBone.

Let's the hyperbole begin.

 

[KORNdoggy]

They haven't given us a single thing except a trailer. Nothing is available to buy. Nothing is being presented as a final product.

I'd completely understand this level of anger if you were tricked into buying it, but you haven't. In fact, its totally okay not to buy it, if you'd like to make that decision this soon. You're allowed to do that, you know, even if it's kind of premature. I think it's silly to pass judgment and get angry over something that hasn't actually happened yet, though. Sure, the trailer looks bad, and so does some broll footage from a single website of no real repute, but is that the final build or the game? Is that how it looks when you pop it into your PS4? That's impossible to say because the damn thing is still 3 months away.

So you think they'd show something that wasn't the best they could possibly demo for their long awaited return after the delay? That they'd show some old build of the game this late into development? 3 months is not even approaching the amount of time required to get this game looking like it was revealed to look. Not even close. They have 2 months of realistic dev time left. They have a game that looks like previous gen upscale, rather the a current gen title. If you want to convince yourself everything will be AOK, that's fine, but it certainly isn't an excuse to ignore the evidence that is shoved right under our nose. And it certainly isn't a reason to stop voicing our concerns. After all, sitting back and accepting this kind of crap is the reason ubisoft thinks they can get away with it in the first place. Maybe now people are being vocal about the BS practice of "bait and switch" developers. Things MIGHT change.

 

[Lemondish]

.... what? They promised those graphics and are quoted saying they're better than the 2012 footage. We never said "we want this do it for us" they promised and teased it. When they don't deliver it you don't blame it on fans.

This is as bad as the "you can judge when you do it yourself" argument.

Not trying to blame it on fans. I'm trying to suggest that maybe its silly to blame the company for getting so fucking enraged about something so trivial as the looks of a game we all knew would likely not reach the target render given the studio had little indication of what that hardware would look like at that time. If you took that as an explicit promise of a final product given the iterative and tumultuous nature of AAA game development, then yes, you're the one that needs to reign in those expectations for the future. Those aren't healthy expectations to have in this hobby. This level of outrage is just fucking embarrassing.

It doesn't seem logical to be pissed at this to the level that I'm seeing here. Not when all we have is a trailer and some broll footage. I'll jump on teh hate bandwagon if everything turns out exactly as its treated today, but with about 3 months left of development, I don't think this response is anywhere close to reasonable. I'd like you to please quote where they said its better than the 2012 footage, though. That's an honest request without any animosity because all I'm seeing is a quote (pretty recent one) that says its equal to or in some cases better than the E3 2013 reveal, which has already been identified as being inferior to the 2012 showcase. At the end of the day, the reason I think this is a ridiculous response is I have no idea why anybody would believe the 2012 reveal was anywhere close to a reasonable expectation for these consoles.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Sorry. I made new thread instead:

How Watch_Dogs looks on PS4 [heavy GIFz retrospective]

Naice!

 

[kudoboi]

Source? Because it's a massive bullsshit what did you said.

earlier in the thread people were saying that the video was 720P upscaled to 1080P. or did i read it out of context?

 

[Lemondish]

So you think they'd show something that wasn't the best they could possibly demo for their long awaited return after the delay? That they'd show some old build of the game this late into development? 3 months is not even approaching the amount of time required to get this game looking like it was revealed to look. Not even close. They have 2 months of realistic dev time left. They have a game that looks like previous gen upscale, rather the a current gen title. If you want to convince yourself everything will be AOK, that's fine, but it certainly isn't an excuse to ignore the evidence that is shoved right under our nose. And it certainly isn't a reason to stop voicing our concerns. After all, sitting back and accepting this kind of crap is the reason ubisoft thinks they can get away with it in the first place. Maybe now people are being vocal about the BS practice of "bait and switch" developers. Things MIGHT change.

All I'm saying is that our concerns aren't so legitimate that this level of rage is warranted or should be encouraged. The game isn't even out, yet people are complaining as if they were sold a fucking lemon. Nobody is out of money and its totally okay to not buy a game you think doesn't look good based on a single prerelease trailer and some broll footage from a noname website. I'd rather look at it like this: I can't be certain at this point what the game will look or play like because its not even bloody out yet. I will wait just like I do with every bloody game and see what the reviews and launch day buyers say, just like I imagine most everybody on this forum would. It seems ridiculous for enthusiasts to be so upset about something that hasn't actually happened to them yet.

I can't even take you seriously with this level of hyperbolic hilarity, though. I mean, if me, a not so rational enthusiast gamer can't even jump on this bandwagon, do you think the development team should take you seriously? Is it normal to have this level of displeasure from an unreleased product? I don't think it is. I guess you disagree and that's okay. I'll just continue thinking you're silly for feeling that way

I'm still giggling about the last gen upscale mention, though, so I might have missed some of the nuance in your post. That's some hilarious stuff right there.

 

[Gurish]

Where's the PC footage after the 2012 reveal?

It was never clarified which one was it, there were numerous gameplay vids at the time and UBI said that some of it were from the PC version.

I remember this clearly, be happy if someone will back me up on this

Still don't understand the fuss though, all this meltdown was supposed to happen in 2013 when they showed the first and most obvious downgrade, not now.

I really don't see the big difference compared to 2013.

 

[TyrantII]

earlier in the thread people were saying that the video was 720P upscaled to 1080P. or did i read it out of context?

It appears that way, but the media released was 1080P and the game is supposed to run at 1080P on PS4 (which they claim this media was created from).

The caps are 1080P. The video they released is 1080P. They claim it is 1080P. But it looks like up-resed 720P...

 

[Liquid-Swords]

GTA 5 looks better to me...but I'll still have fun playing it if the gameplay comes through.

 

[Kitty]

So people are still comparing heavy compressed videos from unknown source/version(s) from different times of day, different locations and so on to the high-end pc ones we saw at E3?

 

[omonimo]

earlier in the thread people were saying that the video was 720P upscaled to 1080P. or did i read it out of context?

So you suppose the older footages coming from a pc max setting at 4k when ubi said were from ps4?

 

[StuBurns]

So people are still comparing heavy compressed videos from unknown source/version(s) from different times of day, different locations and so on to the high-end pc ones we saw at E3?

You still randomly dropping by to post gifs of little girls laughing?

 

[TyrantII]

So people are still comparing heavy compressed videos from unknown source/version(s) from different times of day, different locations and so on to the high-end pc ones we saw at E3?

Bit rate                         : 14.9 Mbps
Maximum bit rate                 : 40.3 Mbps
Width                            : 1 920 pixels
Height                           : 1 080 pixels

People are still drive by Junioring? You think RTFP was in the TOS or something.

 

[Kitty]

Bit rate                         : 14.9 Mbps
Maximum bit rate                 : 40.3 Mbps
Width                            : 1 920 pixels
Height                           : 1 080 pixels

People are still drive by Junioring? You think RTFP was in the TOS or something.

That info doesn't mean anything at all, could just be an upscaled 240p source.
So just because I'm "Junior Member" I can't have valid points?

Unclench sir, unclench.

 

[SapientWolf]

All I'm saying is that our concerns aren't so legitimate that this level of rage is warranted or should be encouraged. The game isn't even out, yet people are complaining as if they were sold a fucking lemon. Nobody is out of money and its totally okay to not buy a game you think doesn't look good based on a single prerelease trailer and some broll footage from a noname website. I'd rather look at it like this: I can't be certain at this point what the game will look or play like because its not even bloody out yet. I will wait just like I do with every bloody game and see what the reviews and launch day buyers say, just like I imagine most everybody on this forum would. It seems ridiculous for enthusiasts to be so upset about something that hasn't actually happened to them yet.

I can't even take you seriously with this level of hyperbolic hilarity, though. I mean, if me, a not so rational enthusiast gamer can't even jump on this bandwagon, do you think the development team should take you seriously? Is it normal to have this level of displeasure from an unreleased product? I don't think it is. I guess you disagree and that's okay. I'll just continue thinking you're silly for feeling that way

I'm still giggling about the last gen upscale mention, though, so I might have missed some of the nuance in your post. That's some hilarious stuff right there.

It's even more ridiculous to pre-order Watch Dogs under these circumstances if you are expecting the graphical fidelity shown in the E3 2012 video, because the allegations of graphical downgrades seem true and Ubi hasn't done a single thing to counter them. If people wait until the game is released to draw attention to the issue then it won't affect their bottom line much because most of those first day sales are pre-orders.

 

[TyrantII]

That info doesn't mean anything at all, could just be an upscaled 240p source.
So just because I'm "Junior Member" I can't have valid points?

Unclench sir, unclench.

So Ubi accidentally released at 720P upscaled capture? They're all using the same Ubi media, and Gamersyde throws up the best they're given.

I'm not sure that put them in a better light if this is just some sort of gigantic media cluster fuck they've left to stew over the weekend.

 

[Jacobi]

So people are still comparing heavy compressed videos from unknown source/version(s) from different times of day, different locations and so on to the high-end pc ones we saw at E3?

Yep. It's stupid as hell. What's even dumber: People are like, hey looks the game isn't 1080p.
IF THE UPSCALED MATERIAL IS 720P IT ONLY SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT THE VIDEO, NOT REALLY ABOUT THE GAME

 

[TheOctodad]

That info doesn't mean anything at all, could just be an upscaled 240p source.
So just because I'm "Junior Member" I can't have valid points?

Unclench sir, unclench.

I think you're rubbing people the wrong way not because a junior can't have valid points, but the combo of being a junior and some of your post content.

Some of your post (a lot) are just basically a "lol" with a gif. As a junior, people view this more negatively since it's perceived as a non contributory post from a person who has not established themselves as someone who can contribute.

Again, nothing wrong with being a junior. But, first impressions stick, and posts with little content and a attitude of superiority aren't a first impression that you can expect a lot of people to respond kindly to.

 

[jschreier]

Game Journalists are pretty much in the same boat as Jason from Kotaku.

Can't say anything bad about the game cause they don't want to get on Ubisoft bad side.

Trust me, the moment this game launch and millions of dollars roll in. They'll be like.. Well there's some issues with this game.

By that point it would be too late.

Just once - once! - I would love to be able to voice an opinion about something without being told that no, I'm not being honest, I'm just trying to avoid making a publisher angry. Think that's possible, NeoGAF?

 

[SystemBug]

So Ubi accidentally released at 720P upscaled capture? They're all using the same Ubi media, and Gamersyde throws up the best they're given.

I'm not sure that put them in a better light if this is just some sort of gigantic media cluster fuck they've left to stew over the weekend.

it could be, if the video was 1920 native, it wouldn't look upressed from from 720p.

 

[chubigans]

Grabbed some more caps from the high bitrate Gamersyde vid. Tried only grabbing what appears to be gameplay. Not sure how someone can look at these and claim something isn't off. They all appear to be 720P up-scaled to 1080P as well.

General
Format                           : MPEG-4

Video
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                   : Baseline@L4.0
Codec ID                         : avc1
Codec ID/Info                    : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                         : 2mn 21s
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 14.9 Mbps
Maximum bit rate                 : 40.3 Mbps
Width                            : 1 920 pixels
Height                           : 1 080 pixels

Something is wrong.

Oh wow, I thought for sure the Gamersyde vid would look better. Interesting...

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Just once - once! - I would love to be able to voice an opinion about something without being told that no, I'm not being honest, I'm just trying to avoid making a publisher angry. Think that's possible, NeoGAF?

Again Jason, you're focusing on the directly antagonistic posts. People are angry in this thread theyre looking for excuses to be negative. No need to lump in GAF as a whole. Plenty of folks here are fine with what you do and what you're saying. Since yesterday I've understood that yes there's a reason why you shouldn't post something negative and anger fans. Your idea of a comparison of E3 to reality for an article would be something almost unheard of for a major gaming news site. If you do it I'm looking forward to it since more people need to know about the practice of 'bullshots'

 

[Dr Bass]

GTA 5 looks better to me...but I'll still have fun playing it if the gameplay comes through.

Oh man, one of my favorite games from back in the day.

 

[TheOctodad]

Just once - once! - I would love to be able to voice an opinion about something without being told that no, I'm not being honest, I'm just trying to avoid making a publisher angry. Think that's possible, NeoGAF?

Trust me, most people don't think that. Don't take a few comments as speaking for the whole.

 

[NullPointer]

Just once - once! - I would love to be able to voice an opinion about something without being told that no, I'm not being honest, I'm just trying to avoid making a publisher angry. Think that's possible, NeoGAF?

I said it was fine that you were clear and unambiguous with your viewpoint even if it went against the grain in this thread. That should count. And I wasn't alone.

Ease up a little Jason - there isn't one voice here. You're focusing too much on the most negative comments.

 

[milkham]

Just once - once! - I would love to be able to voice an opinion about something without being told that no, I'm not being honest, I'm just trying to avoid making a publisher angry. Think that's possible, NeoGAF?

I understand your frustration dude, and frankly I'm amazed you're still in this thread. I'm not baiting you here, i'm actually genuinely curious, have you ever pissed off a publisher personally ( i don't mean kotaku as an organization just jschreier) ?

 

[jschreier]

I said it was fine that you were clear and unambiguous with your viewpoint even if it went against the grain in this thread. That should count. And I wasn't alone.

Ease up a little Jason - there isn't one voice here. You're focusing too much on the most negative comments.

You're right. Easing up.

I understand your frustration dude, and frankly I'm amazed you're still in this thread. I'm not baiting you here, i'm actually genuinely curious, have you ever pissed off a publisher personally ( i don't mean kotaku as an organization just jschreier) ?

Complicated question. The tl;dr version is "yes, often." But "pissed off" could mean a lot of things. Game publishers, like games press, aren't just one big amorphous entity - they all view the media in different ways. Many PR people are totally rational and reasonable, but some see reporters as extensions of their marketing departments, and get mad when we have the gall to break out of the PR cycle. (And on the flip side, there have been cases when I was unreasonable or unfair, which deservedly pissed people off.)

To stay on this topic, I can't imagine Ubisoft getting angry at any reporter for talking about how a game's graphics have changed, so long as that coverage is fair and measured.

 

[benny_a]

If I was Kotaku I would take the thread title from this thread and only post the gif in the OP without any comment. That'll show 'em!

 

[plagiarize]

You're right. Easing up.


Complicated question. The tl;dr version is "yes, often." But "pissed off" could mean a lot of things. Game publishers, like games press, aren't just one big amorphous entity - they all view the media in different ways. Many PR people are totally rational and reasonable, but some see reporters as extensions of their marketing departments, and get mad when we have the gall to break out of the PR cycle. (And on the flip side, there have been cases when I was unreasonable or unfair, which deservedly pissed people off.)

To stay on this topic, I can't imagine Ubisoft getting angry at any reporter for talking about how a game's graphics have changed, so long as that coverage is fair and measured.

I presume this article calling out the Aisha Tyler trailer for looking terrible (and speculating it was 360/PS3 footage) didn't harm your relationship with Ubisoft. http://kotaku.com/for-one-day-watch-dogs-looks-terrible-970720100

Not jumping down your throat today (we did that, and I'm not one to repeatedly bang my head against a wall), I'm genuinely interested.

If that footage turns out to be representative of the PS4 version, then I think it's fair to blame Ubisoft for not correcting the widespread belief that it was last gen footage... and it doesn't look that different from recent footage which we know is the PS4 version.

 

[Chaplain]

Just once - once! - I would love to be able to voice an opinion about something without being told that no, I'm not being honest, I'm just trying to avoid making a publisher angry. Think that's possible, NeoGAF?

No one can know what you are thinking except you. It would be ignorant for anyone to claim they know what's going on in your mind and heart.

That said, I appreciate you coming in here to share your viewpoint and converse with others.

 

[chadskin]

I haven't seen this 2012/2013/2014 comparison video posted before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBGIi9VA_AI

Less fluffy coat physics (1:34 min) confirmed?

 

[Vanos_of_Manos]

I haven't seen this 2012/2013/2014 comparison video posted before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBGIi9VA_AI

Less fluffy coat physics (1:34 min) confirmed?

I'd noticed the coat physics seemed a bit different in some of the posts .gifs but it does seem much more apparent in this comparison. Also seems to underscore the changes to the lighting effects as well. The biggest thing I notice in that is just how different the explosion/particle effects are, though out of fairness I'm willing to chalk that up to PC dev kit vs PS4 hardware. Still doesn't bode well with Ubisoft's track record, which I feel is the bigger issue here.

OT: Is it just me or does Aiden's face at 1:26 look quite different? 2012 seems rounder, perhaps a bit "older" and more "ethnic looking"? Like maybe he was originally conceived as an asian or hispanic character? Could just be the difference in lighting and the shot used, but something I just kind of noticed.