Regardless of the truth of the very specific shower part of the allegation, I think the examples of past behavior that have been passed around openly, and even more importantly, the response and actions since Saturday and the re-opening of the site should be more than enough for people to make some kind of character judgment.
When it comes to character judgment the case is for most people clear, I think. Significant forum such as NeoGAF being dependent on one person is a clear problem that for the longevity of the forum should be resolved with more democratic ownership in the future.
Regardless of the truth of the very specific shower part of the allegation, I think the examples of past behavior that have been passed around openly, and even more importantly, the response and actions since Saturday and the re-opening of the site should be more than enough for people to make some kind of character judgment.
Unfortunately it doesn't look that way. People are willing to talk anything down to keep their videogame forum going. Or say it doesn't matter who the owner is.
I don't know if that approach is worse than openly saying what Malka did at the time, and subsequently, is OK.
Theres actually room to discuss both sides of a matter like this now. If thats due to the moderation and people that went out, then for the community, this might be for the better.
Maybe they were friends and she thought she could trust him? I've stayed in hotel rooms with female friends before and never thought them running to the bathroom vomiting was an excuse to join then sans clothes.
EL fucked up and if he simply apologised this would have blown over but instead he's blamed everyone but himself, whether it's 'botched be crazy, the bizarre love triangle scientology date rape story or shutting down the entire site for the weekend his actions show anything but a sense of innocence or misunderstanding.
Its not to say that its no big deal, it is a big deal to her and him whatever went down, but they moved on and everyone is piling on as if he jumped in her guts without warning.
But we don't know that and you already make up your mind he heard her vomiting.
Doesn't mean he didn't do what she said, but you are already adding all these details that are out of thin air, man.
I know very little about this, so I apologise for my ignorance, but wasn't she in the shower? I'm assuming she was getting cleaned up after throwing up?
Theres actually room to discuss both sides of a matter like this now. If thats due to the moderation and people that went out, then for the community, this might be for the better.
I don't think that is the case here. The case here is Evil getting into the shower. He misread the situation and backed off as soon as he was asked to. Had he apologized, all this shit storm would have never happen.
I don't think that is the case here. The case here is Evil getting into the shower. He misread the situation and backed off as soon as he was asked to. Had he apologized, all this shit storm would have never happen.
Anyone who thinks any industry pros are going to come back to GAF - or care about GAF's thoughts again - should honestly read this thread. Lord Almighty, the lack of respect, empathy, humanity.
You all act like this in school, you'd be in detention or kicked out.
I don't think that is the case here. The case here is Evil getting into the shower. He misread the situation and backed off as soon as he was asked to. Had he apologized, all this shit storm would have never happen.
THIS. If he just admitted he was a bit socially retarded, misread the situation and then went on to apologise then people would be a lot less outraged.
The shower situation happens.
They talk about it, she says it wasn't okay.
She says it was probably the alcohol and that she still has no real reason not to trust him, because they're friends.
Date and sex happens later.
Some time later this other party happens where she says he acted rapey on that other girl.
and so on.
that is the story she tells in the article. so yeah, at the time she probably thought it was a one time mistake under the influence of alcohol and was willing to "let it slide", so it's not that hard to see why it went on for a while after that.
THIS. If he just admitted he was a bit socially retarded, misread the situation and then went on to apologise then people would be a lot less outraged.
Why should he apologize to us for that? It was between the two of them, he made a bad move she called him out on it and they eventually became an item and both moved on. This was dredged up by someone who screencapped a personal conversation of a #metoo moment..
Not to me, maybe he should have mentioned that when he was interviewed, that he had apologized to the lady in question back [perhaps he did and should have mentioned it] then and all of this would have been a none story.
Not to me, maybe he should have mentioned that when he was interviewed, that he had apologized to the lady in question back [perhaps he did and should have mentioned it] then and all of this would have been a none story.
Am I wrong to think that having the gall to try to enter into a relationship with someone after that incident would proceeed apologizing for said incident?
I don't think that is the case here. The case here is Evil getting into the shower. He misread the situation and backed off as soon as he was asked to. Had he apologized, all this shit storm would have never happen.
Honestly it is really difficult to tell what peoples true intentions are over the internet. People have a right to decide how and where they choose to spend their time. But man people are just jumping the gun as if there is a video of this guy out there blogging about how many girls he rapes daily. Sounds like he made a shitty move years ago and should have come clean about it sooner rather than later but like many have said he later had a relationship with that same girl so I am not really sure who the "victim" is in this situation.
People love to be a part of a "movement" so to speak and it feels like people who never really even were a true part of GAF are just dog piling to be a part of whats hot currently in regards to gaming forums. Again, I know some if not most are genuinely upset and disturbed but it just seems like a bit of a dramatic shift all the sudden. We do not KNOW 100% what happened, we simply dont. Its also funny all the individual threads from members stating why they are leaving and how apparently if you dont leave then you basically are a rapist and hate women. I usually ignore these type of threads cause its an endless back and forth but yea it'll be interesting to see where GAF lands once all of this is settled and done with.
Honestly it is really difficult to tell what peoples true intentions are over the internet. People have a right to decide how and where they choose to spend their time. But man people are just jumping the gun as if there is a video of this guy out there blogging about how many girls he rapes daily. Sounds like he made a shitty move years ago and should have come clean about it sooner rather than later but like many have said he later had a relationship with that same girl so I am not really sure who the "victim" is in this situation.
Ideally, a girl shouldn't have to be afraid of drinking with a friend..
I have a female "drinking buddy" and we sometimes meet for a beer (several beers) and it might even be us alone at her place or my place.
She's in a relationship and i am married and while there was flirting and there is physical attraction on both sides nothing ever happened and she feels absolutely safe i wouldn't try anything under no circumstance *
Now though, claiming her boyfriend broke up with her because of the shower episode ?
Not because she went on a road trip with some guy and they were, i believe, sleeping together ? Ok.
* Okay, if i wasn't married and she told me she's going to take a shower and left the door open (maybe she didn't tell him she was feeling sick and going to throw up ? not sure)...I mean, let's be serious. Who wouldn't take that as a signal ?
Well yeah but look, we still have people defending/Evilore. Every other Internet personality doesnt get another chance but NeoGAF is in denial and will defend Evilore on this.
Also, Im glad youre banned PhantomThief. If youre reading this, you were a real arsehole.
Honestly, I dont know, I really dont. Thats my overall confusion with this whole situation. Yes he owns the site but he owes nobody here any reasoning for why he and a gf had issues in the past. Its bizarre that people expect such a thing and instead are just assuming the absolute worst and trying to disrupt the site. I was just trying to to be understanding of both sides.
Well yeah but look, we still have people defending/Evilore. Every other Internet personality doesnt get another chance but NeoGAF is in denial and will defend Evilore on this.
Also, Im glad youre banned PhantomThief. If youre reading this, you were a real arsehole.
Are you mad that Gaf thinks pew die pie is full on alt right?
But seriously, I think people are being reasonable in this thread we may disagree on points but at least no one is calling him an outright "rapist" like we saw before the sky fell.
Honestly, I dont know, I really dont. Thats my overall confusion with this whole situation. Yes he owns the site but he owes nobody here any reasoning for why he and a gf had issues in the past. Its bizarre that people expect such a thing and instead are just assuming the absolute worst and trying to disrupt the site. I was just trying to to be understanding of both sides.
Honestly, I think its just everything that has happened over the years coming out in the open. The rage may have been directed at Evilore,because he's the face of this place. When you read through this forum and other sites, their anger is towards the mods, for years they got away with a lot of shit and hid behind silly reasons for banning people and when the storm came, they all bailed on this community.
Hopefully we can get better mods moving ahead. Let's see in about 6 months from now how things turn out.
Calling out others for doing "mental gymnastics" as you make an analogy that makes zero sense is laughable.
To correct you, yes, exposing myself to a another person male or female that I have no sexual interaction with is wrong and a crime. Being piss drunk with a girl in a hotel room after already having sex previously and being naked in front of her is NOT a crime.
I sincerely hope this doesnt need to be explained further. I mean hell I have been married for 5 years and sometimes I walk around naked and my wife will tell me to get dressed, guess im a sex offender now...hmmm.
Honestly, I think its just everything that has happened over the years coming out in the open. The rage may have been directed at Evilore,because he's the face of this place. When you read through this forum and other sites, their anger is towards the mods, for years they got away with a lot of shit and hid behind silly reasons for banning people and when the storm came, they all bailed on this community.
Hopefully we can get better mods moving ahead. Let's see in about 6 months from now how things turn out.
Calling out others for doing "mental gymnastics" as you make an analogy that makes zero sense is laughable.
To correct you, yes, exposing myself to a another person male or female that I have no sexual interaction with is wrong and a crime. Being piss drunk with a girl in a hotel room after already having sex previously and being naked in front of her is NOT a crime.
I sincerely hope this doesnt need to be explained further. I mean hell I have been married for 5 years and sometimes I walk around naked and my wife will tell me to get dressed, guess im a sex offender now...hmmm.
A: they hadn't had sex at that point, the article is pretty clear on the chronology.
B: DOING something with your wife is very different from following an individual into the shower, exposing yourself then when it comes out falling back on the 'bitches be crazy defence.
Honestly, I think its just everything that has happened over the years coming out in the open. The rage may have been directed at Evilore,because he's the face of this place. When you read through this forum and other sites, their anger is towards the mods, for years they got away with a lot of shit and hid behind silly reasons for banning people and when the storm came, they all bailed on this community.
Hopefully we can get better mods moving ahead. Let's see in about 6 months from now how things turn out.
Thats the problem with this knee jerk reaction the internet likes to have to everything now. We want to label people as the scum of the earth before we know the facts and also for shit that isnt really our business. Once the truth comes out, if it ever does, its too late cause now the story has been spread far and wide and people already have their minds made up. But like you said, people will use this as a conduit to vent other problems they may have with the site or the guy himself, or both. Its very common for people to just dog pile on a situation due to simply being opportunistic.
The former GAF mods asked Evilore to come clean, to explain his actions to them. From second hand sources, the explanation he apparently gave was that
Ima Leupp was some crazy FWB who dragged him and another girl into a scientology compound with roofies and surprise sex involved
. . . . If this is indeed the statement he gave to the former GAF mods, this is such a sad attempt to deflect the blame on the girl and would explain why they left him out to dry. They are tired of his bs especially with the Spain 'power-move' and the Amir0x thing hanging over him.
A short ,contrite (regardless who's fault is it) and focused (on the shower events as described in Ima's post and exclude whatever sordid history the two of them had afterwards) explanation to his mods would have save him and everyone all this drama.
I don't think that is the case here. The case here is Evil getting into the shower. He misread the situation and backed off as soon as he was asked to. Had he apologized, all this shit storm would have never happen.
Apologise to who? I'm 99% sure he would have apologised to the woman in question. You would assume this would be required before she'd have consentual sex with him after. If so, she accepted it and moved on.
that is the story she tells in the article. so yeah, at the time she probably thought it was a one time mistake under the influence of alcohol and was willing to "let it slide", so it's not that hard to see why it went on for a while after that.
Yeah, so she was absolutely ok with it once they'd discussed it at the time. Was it wrong? Absolutely yes, EvilLore mis-read the signals & messed up but did the right thing when rejected. The fact they later talked about it indicates it didn't destory the friendship, so she basically considered it NBD at the time. If it was a big of a deal to her as the Internet makes out, She would have ended the friendship & not had sex with him later on.
EvilLore is definately not a saint, but who the hell is? All of us have stuff in our pasts we're not proud of, or look back and think "I should have done that better"
This is basically RL drama between two people that's been magnified a billion times by the Internet. Drama happens in relationships, marriages, friendships & offices every single day.
A: they hadn't had sex at that point, the article is pretty clear on the chronology.
B: DOING something with your wife is very different from following an individual into the shower, exposing yourself then when it comes out falling back on the 'bitches be crazy defence.
On point A I stand corrected then, my bad. Honestly, since none of us were in the room we are simply piecing together a situation from the little we know. If he would have forced sex on her after the fact then fuck yea bury the guy. From what it sounds like its just a typical party scenario. Two drunk people go to a hotel and like someone else mentioned before I can be pretty certain they werent intending to discuss climate change or current standings in the NFL. Drunk people go to a hotel usually for one reason and one reason only...
On point A I stand corrected then, my bad. Honestly, since none of us were in the room we are simply piecing together a situation from the little we know. If he would have forced sex on her after the fact then fuck yea bury the guy. From what it sounds like its just a typical party scenario. Two drunk people go to a hotel and like someone else mentioned before I can be pretty certain they werent intending to discuss climate change or current standings in the NFL. Drunk people go to a hotel usually for one reason and one reason only...
Dude they were on a road trip, as the article lays out. It's not like they randomly booked a hotel for no reason, I've shared a room with a female friend before and at no point did I assume it meant anything more than two friends sharing a room to cut down on expenses.
Edit: it seems that many people here either defending or minimising ELs actions haven't actually read the article in the OP or seem his statement to the mods, that combined with him blaming everyone & everything but himself is what has made me very reluctant to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Ideally, a girl shouldn't have to be afraid of drinking with a friend..
I have a female "drinking buddy" and we sometimes meet for a beer (several beers) and it might even be us alone at her place or my place.
She's in a relationship and i am married and while there was flirting and there is physical attraction on both sides nothing ever happened and she feels absolutely safe i wouldn't try anything under no circumstance *
Now though, claiming her boyfriend broke up with her because of the shower episode ?
Not because she went on a road trip with some guy and they were, i believe, sleeping together ? Ok.
* Okay, if i wasn't married and she told me she's going to take a shower and left the door open (maybe she didn't tell him she was feeling sick and going to throw up ? not sure)...I mean, let's be serious. Who wouldn't take that as a signal ?
Nah I'm not jumping into a shower with a woman based on her leaving the door open, nuding up and hopping into the shower with her isn't the feeling out move, I'm going to be damn sure before doing that.
On the other hand if its late and I'm drunk and I'm in a hands on club and woman approaches me and demands I buy her a drink, there is a chance I'll consider that the go ahead to get touchy. But then not if she has a boyfriend and not because I feel the need to take the power in the situation.
Based on my wordly interactions of 33 years with the opposite sex the dude has got some issues. A sexual predator of the likes I couldn't possibly be barely associated with by being a part of his video games forum? Nope, personally nowhere near that.
Dude they were on a road trip, as the article lays out. It's not like they randomly booked a hotel for no reason, I've shared a room with a female friend before and at no point did I assume it meant anything more than two friends sharing a room to cut down on expenses.
Ok, then I dont know, I really dont (just like everyone else). I still stand by my previous post in regards to why I dont think this should be the downfall of a forum for discussion when we had ZERO to do with any of it. If the two involved have moved on then it seems like people just want to bitch about something at this point and using this as the conduit to do so. It is still really odd to me that a girl would go on a road trip with a guy while having a boyfriend and stay in hotels with him. I am NOT saying its her fault but its just a strange thing to do. I couldnt convince my wife to let me go on the road with some girl no matter how much convincing I tried to do.
* Okay, if i wasn't married and she told me she's going to take a shower and left the door open (maybe she didn't tell him she was feeling sick and going to throw up ? not sure)...I mean, let's be serious. Who wouldn't take that as a signal ?
When I was younger (and granted the climate was different than today) I could Easily see my younger self popping my head in the bathroom (door was open) and glancing away while say "hey, you want some company?". Period. Many men would say that Imo.
But if you're not so good at reading social cues, you might do something as daring and (quickly known to be unwanted) as getting naked. But assuming you could ASK for the opportunity? given that opportunity? is not outside the realm of possibility for many people and I would not call that harrasment.
The former GAF mods asked Evilore to come clean, to explain his actions to them. From second hand sources, the explanation he apparently gave was that
Ima Leupp was some crazy FWB who dragged him and another girl into a scientology compound with roofies and surprise sex involved
. . . . If this is indeed the statement he gave to the former GAF mods, this is such a sad attempt to deflect the blame on the girl and would explain why they left him out to dry. They are tired of his bs especially with the Spain 'power-move' and the Amir0x thing hanging over him.
A short ,contrite (regardless who's fault is it) and focused (on the shower events as described in Ima's post and exclude whatever sordid history the two of them had afterwards) explanation to his mods would have save him and everyone all this drama.
Why would he have to explain what´s happened between him and his former girlfriend to a Gaf mod ?
He broke up with the girl so i'm sure there was some bad blood between them afterwards .
This all doesn't make any sense to me and doesn't seem a healthy situation from all directions , it's almost like living in a cult .
Ok, then I dont know, I really dont (just like everyone else). I still stand by my previous post in regards to why I dont think this should be the downfall of a forum for discussion when we had ZERO to do with any of it. If the two involved have moved on then it seems like people just want to bitch about something at this point and using this as the conduit to do so. It is still really odd to me that a girl would go on a road trip with a guy while having a boyfriend and stay in hotels with him. I am NOT saying its her fault but its just a strange thing to do. I couldnt convince my wife to let me go on the road with some girl no matter how much convincing I tried to do.
Understood mate and for what it's worth I think a lot of the visceral reaction is down to ELs reaction to this coming out. He didn't have to call her mentally unstable, he didn't have to spin a yarn to the mods involving Leupp taking him toa scientology spin off cult where they tried to drug him and have sex with him and anotger girl which caused the mods to quit en masse leading to the site having to shut down then nuke OT & bring in a new missing system with no transparency.
From what I can see it a his reactions that largely led to the current situation.
Why would he have to explain what´s happened between him and his former girlfriend to a Gaf mod ?
He broke up with the girl so i'm sure there was some bad blood between them afterwards .
This all doesn't make any sense to me and doesn't seem a healthy situation from all directions , it's almost like living in a cult .
Because the NeoGAF community got wind of Ima Leupp's 'MeToo' post about Evilore's rather inappropriate interactions with her in a shower and wants an explanation from Evilore and/or the mods.
Because the NeoGAF mods dont know what to say to the NeoGAF community regarding that issue and - again im just hearing this from second hand sources and not the actual mods - were instructed by Evilore to snuff it out. After Evilore's previous 'kill order' on any NeoGAF discussions regarding Amir0x's pedophilia allegations which was very unpopular with the GAF mods, they stood their ground and demand an explanation. And they received that rather pathetic explanation that i spoilerfied in my previous post. The former NeoGAF mods gave Evilore the finger and left. And now we are in this sad state of affairs.
