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We know that next-gen graphics will be more realistic, but what about cel-shading?

inner-G said:
You almost had one when XIII was still a PS2 title

162051-ffps26.jpg
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I wonder if that would have been the engine for the Rumored X-3 if it had ever come out.
 
Its hard to see Cel shading getting better.

Maybe a bigger polycount on the models, but the texture work and the style are gonna pretty much stay the same.

At least i think
/hope
 
ILikeFeet said:
Wait, wasn't most of the film 2D and several set pieces and machinery cgi?
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It was mixed very frequently to the point where people often didn't notice the changes.

If you look very closely at the image I posted, you will notice the 3D nature of the guy compared to the 2D nature of the background.
 
We have already come close, but I'd love to see it reach a point where cel shading completely imitates hand drawn/painted animation.
 
The cel shading will become so real that you'll think someone is in your TV actually drawing it!

You know, like basketball games are played.
 
Dali said:
Yeah that's common knowledge. I think your accompanying image is what threw him off. At least that's what threw me off. It looks shopped to hell and like shit. Yuna? Rikku? No way that's real.
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Its very real, names/models were placeholder IIRC.
 
Snakeyes said:
Will it be possible to create something that really looks 2D and is more detailed and visually appealing than a sprite?
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Due to how GPU's are currently made, I doubt we'll see anything 'new' per se, but there should be some nice extensions of what we've seen thus far.

Besides actual improvements to the shaders used for cell effects, etc. two things stand out in my mind as areas that we'll see improvements; resolution and animation. 1080p resolution is arguably more noticeable for 2D, and 2D-like imaging. And obviously better animation is better for any type of imaging. What could be interesting though is doing something akin to Uncharted. Procedural blending of animation could not only work really well for realistic motion, it could also be used to do some cool anime-esque crazy stuff - while maintaining consistency and lower control lag.
 
Circle of Willis said:
I myself am hoping for more pixar like graphics rather than super realistic. But there's room for both. The more unique artistic styles, the better.
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lol, Has not Insomniac Games already achieved that with the Ratchet & Clank Future series?
 
damn that naruto game has some of the best cel shading i've ever seen. It looks even better than the cartoon.
A lot of cel shaded cgi still looks like 3d with some cartoon shader technique but there are times when that naruto game fools me thinking its an actual animated film.
 
Nirolak said:
This is pre-rendered 3D.

RKlgy.jpg
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You sure? I know certain parts of certain scenes used 3D models. The glider at the end and the mechanical construction arm for instance. Maybe the visible machinery in his forearm is a 3d model, but the rest? I had the DVD and I remember a lot of pre-viz was done using 3D, so a lot of the scenery ended up being modeled as well, but I think most of the characters are 2d.

Nirolak said:
http://area.autodesk.com/inhouse/custstories/steamboy

The movie did combine quite a few elements of 2D drawing, but the focus there is the character.
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I'm just seeing this reply. I didn't read through the entire thing, but the bit I skimmed is pretty-much confirming what I said. The face and the majority of the character in that image is 2D.
 
GeneralIroh said:
damn that naruto game has some of the best cel shading i've ever seen. It looks even better than the cartoon.
A lot of cel shaded cgi still looks like 3d with some cartoon shader technique but there are times when that naruto game fools me thinking its an actual animated film.
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Are you talking about the video that was posted or the edited pics I posted? The real game doesn't look like that. Even though UNS2 looks fantastic I want to eventually have a game that looks like this:
WWh17.jpg
 
Okami is about the closest we'll ever get to 3D models looking Hand drawn. Since 3D models typically have much more accurate lighting and shading then any hand drawn piece could hope for, the illusion never holds. Okami manages to get around this by being completely devoid of any and all lighting and shading, so the illusion holds a bit better (The full 3D animations still hurt though). Of course this does mean that Okami is technically not cel-shaded, so I don't really think it counts.
 
Raistlin said:
lol does not compute
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Ok I should be more clear. There are two things that tend to break the illusion of flatness in cell shading. First the lighting and shading and second is the style of animation. In 2D animation, it's impossible for the animators to capture ever little subtle nuance there is to the way shadows lay and shift across a moving surface or recreate the look of 3D motion perfectly. As such 2D animation has a very distinct flat look. On the other hand cell shading uses 3D models so the more 3 dimensionally accurate shadows and animation instantly break the illusion of it being hand drawn. I have never seen anything cell shaded that managed to fool me in motion and chances are I never will (no, none of the games in this thread even come close).

Okami manages to get around one of these hurdles by forgoing any sort of shading at all. Whilst still not looking anywhere near completely flat (due to the 3D animations still being there), the lack of any shadows to demonstrate depth do help the illusion hold a bit better. That being said a game without any shading can't exactly be called cell shaded so it's not really a fair example.

Also for the record, I am not a blind Okami hyping sheep. In fact, I found Okami to be fairly ugly, so take from that what you will.
 
Yeah I'll never understand the praise Valkyria Chronicles gets for its graphics.


On the topic, yes cel-shading is awesome. And yes Final Fantasy XIII on the PS2 looks fucking amazing. If only...
 
Formless said:
I thought it came from those very annoying commercials, but that sounds interesting
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Actually, Linklater started using that effect with Waking Life, not A Scanner Darkly or those banking commercials (all of which he directed).
 
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