Support NeoGAF

[TheDarkKnight774]

So they're launching a system and they couldn't even launch with a unified store?

I can excuse some laziness on how they emulate the old digital games but to not even have it in the same store with the same economy is beyond stupid.

 

[Macho Madness]

It would've been nice to see all the Wii ware and VC games in Wii U's Eshop and to have VC games playable on the gamepad but I can't complain too much. All of my old digital games are playable in some form on the system.

Yeah. It is a bit disappointing that I can't play them in HD or on the Gamepad but the fact that we have BC at all satisfies me. I doubt I'll bother transferring any of my stuff over to the Wii U though. Just don't care enough.

 

[DR2K]

You mean only way to ensure 100% BC, thus the best way.

We really only need like 5% if we're being honest about Wii's software.

 

[RedSwirl]

It's not like everybody else does it better on consoles, not with solid BC/quality emulation. 360 BC is a mess with inconsistent emulation, and the emulator more or less takes over the console. Play a PS1 or PS2 game on PS3, and it also locks out the normal XMB functions and capabilities, I thought.

Someone said it earlier, but you actually remain logged into PlayStation Network while playing PS1 games, though PS2 games log you off in case that PS2 game has online functionality. Plus, I think for PS1 BC, the PS3 actually uses one big emulator, because the functionality works exactly the same for digital and physical PS1 games.

Play a DS game on a 3DS and it goes into DS mode, turns off 3DS specific network functions like spotpass.

Yes, but DSiWare games (which also put the system into DS mode) are still available on the 3DS eShop right next to 3DS games. I was hoping that the same would be true for VC games and WiiWare games on the Wii U eShop. As things stand, all those games will remain at least as difficult to discover as they were to Wii owners.

I understand the whole issue with VC games being put into individual emulation wrappers, but I would hope that Nintendo would either mass update with some kind of single emulator for each platform, or that whatever publishers gave a damn would release patches for their own VC games.

 

[Zee-Row]

I wonder if system memory is still limited where you can only use 512 mb.

 

[Diablos54]

We really only need like 5% if we're being honest about Wii's software.

Boo! That's just mean. Poor little Wii Wii. He had tons of great games.

 

[Terrell]

Really only disappointed by VC not being natively emulated on Wii U (for GamePad support, mainly). Someone mentioned it would be difficult since each game would have to be individually supported, but I hope they get around to doing that over the coming months.

I have a strong feeling they will. I have a theory on this:

Miiverse and Nintendo Network IDs will get brought over to 3DS (albeit in a smaller capacity), right?

Well, if Nintendo sets up Virtual Console for Wii U now, you'll have to re-buy the NES VC games AGAIN to play them on the Wii U. Rebuying the same game for a 3rd time would chap a LOt of people's asses.

My guess is that, when they bring accounts for Nintendo Network to the 3DS, purchases on the device will be migrated to a single account ID and untethered from the device itself. By doing this, they have given you a software license for that VC title in lieu of the downloaded file itself, meaning that it could then be deemed transferable to Wii U.

If this is the case, beyond just re-writing the emulation wrappers on each title, they are also working to find a way to make those purchases that customers have already made universal across all their current platforms and figuring out how to migrate old VC purchases from the Wii to the Nintendo Network ID (though I imagine they might try an "iTunes Plus" sort of model where you upgrade your purchase for the new features it would provide at a more reasonable fee and then deleting it from the Wii Mode on your Wii U)

That's no small task and is contingent on their plan to make Nintendo Network fit on all their current and future platforms, so I'm willing to wait for something like this to happen. And when it does, that's likely when you will see Virtual Console re-appear.

They basically have to fix the mistake they made by not setting up the Wii Shop as account-based. So I say that we should let them fix it now.

The real news is that Wii Shop Channel is still going to be around along with the eShop. That pretty much means the VC is dead because no one is going to open up the old slow store unless they absolutely have to (eg. If they make us redownload our WiiWare/VC games). I'm worried we'll have to deal with eShop money and Wii Points independently also.

Segmented DD stores, no Game Pad support, NES/SNES/N64/TG16/GEN Virtual Console dead, barebones as fuck. I knew it wouldn't be in HD but not even having games listed in the Wii U's menu is just lazy.

At this point, why the hell would you keep shopping on the Wii Shop Channel? That makes no sense!

As stated above, we can only hope that they're working out a way to do content upgrading to their account-based eShop setup.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Wii U has BC! Sad face guys

Yeah i don´t not get this. I thought it was some bad news.

 

[Medalion]

Yeah i don´t not get this. I thought it was some bad news.

We can't play 480p games in 1080p?
FUCK EM I SAY!

lol wut

 

[ChosenPredator]

I don't care about the 480p thing what I do care about is having a unified store because that is going to confuse the shit out of people

 

[Aquamarine]

Someone said it earlier, but you actually remain logged into PlayStation Network while playing PS1 games, though PS2 games log you off in case that PS2 game has online functionality. Plus, I think for PS1 BC, the PS3 actually uses one big emulator, because the functionality works exactly the same for digital and physical PS1 games.



Yes, but DSiWare games (which also put the system into DS mode) are still available on the 3DS eShop right next to 3DS games. I was hoping that the same would be true for VC games and WiiWare games on the Wii U eShop. As things stand, all those games will remain at least as difficult to discover as they were to Wii owners.

I understand the whole issue with VC games being put into individual emulation wrappers, but I would hope that Nintendo would either mass update with some kind of single emulator for each platform, or that whatever publishers gave a damn would release patches for their own VC games.

The masses are ALREADY confused that the Wii U is just a new controller for the Wii.

How do you think integrating the two into the same store would make people feel?

 

[Rubius]

Boo! That's just mean. Poor little Wii Wii. He had tons of great games.

The Wii have 1220 games. 5% means that there is 61 good games on the system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wii_games

 

[Leezard]

I guess I'll have to go Dolphin to replay my Wii games in HD, then. I probably won't replay more games than SMG/SMG2 + Xenoblade though.

 

[EvilMario]

I don't care about the 480p thing what I do care about is having a unified store because that is going to confuse the shit out of people

If they do a slow roll out of the Wii U Virtual Console service again, it'll be hilarious.

 

[Terrell]

So they're launching a system and they couldn't even launch with a unified store?

I can excuse some laziness on how they emulate the old digital games but to not even have it in the same store with the same economy is beyond stupid.

Yeah, cuz unifying purchases from a store that isn't account based to a store that is, when that account-based store isn't even finished, is as easy as snapping their fingers, amirite?

The Wii Shop will be phased out once they have it pinned down how (or if) the previous purchase content can be moved. It's not an overnight decision when lots of things were still on the drawing board.

 

[bryehn]

I wonder if system memory is still limited where you can only use 512 mb.

You could only use 256 MB of that.

 

[zroid]

If they do a slow roll out of the Wii U Virtual Console service again, it'll be hilarious.

They'll roll out the exact same games, in the exact same order, in the exact same intervals

 

[FyreWulff]

There's like 80 million Wiis out there.

WiiWare games have significantly more visibility via the already existing Wii install base than via the Wii U.

Or is anyone else remembering how playing Original Xbox games will take you off Live and shuts off all the features of the 360?

All they're doing is giving you a Wii that lives inside the same box the Wii U does.

 

[Drago]

They'll roll out the exact same games, in the exact same order, in the exact same intervals

Given NoAs lackluster performance with 3DS VC we would probably get half the VC games updated, rolled out over several years, with no new titles added to the mix

 

[boiled goose]

I still hate that my VC games are going to forever be Wii versions and not general Nintendo account versions.

Means they will be lost forever by next console cycle.

The idea of having a permanent VC library is not going to happen.

Biggest single reason why I'm not getting a WiiU for a long time.

 

[Kai Dracon]

So they're launching a system and they couldn't even launch with a unified store?

I can excuse some laziness on how they emulate the old digital games but to not even have it in the same store with the same economy is beyond stupid.

Given that DSiware on 3DS is fully integrated into the eshop, is purchased using the same wallet funds...

... I would theorize that they're not being "lazy" now, because they do integrate things when feasible. Rather, they're suffering the consequences of an inadequate digital infrastructure from years ago. The Wii Shop content, wiiware software packages, and virtual console games, may be utterly incompatible with the newer, account based eshop.

Keeping a separate OG Wii store may be the only way to continue to sell the old content for now. It's ugly, there's no doubt about it. But this may have been written on the wall years past.

Taking a random partially educated guess, could be the only way to resolve all this would have been:

1. Have native emulation for wiiware and complete VC catalog ported to Wii U by launch.

2. Wiiware and VC games then sold through Wii U eshop.

3. Devise a one-time-only license injection service. When transfering system content from Wii to Wii U, all digital content is permanently associated with a Wii U user account that becomes the owner, with the content playable by all users on the same system. Which is how native digital stuff works on Wii U, just like 360 and PS3.

Point #3 may have involved license renegotiation related to every wiiware rights older and VC title rights holder, in order for that software to become native to a new platform. Not impossible, but laborious and slow.

Given that the 3DS situation was handled smoothly and transparently for the end user in this regard, I'm willing to give them the benefit of a doubt that the Wii BC situation is non-trivial and involves significant hurdles.

Which isn't to say they won't perform further porting of VC content and such later on. That might happen. No way to tell though.

 

[Christberg]

Probably done to sandbox off the Wii's OS. Which has been completely hacked to ribbons at this point.

Regardless, the Wii U has 100% BC that works on every launch SKU including downloadable stuff. That's a damn sight better than the X360/PS3 launched with. Even if the UI for it is an annoying mess.

 

[Electivirus]

Eh, as long as there's BC and it works fine, I have no issue with this.

 

[Linkhero1]

I still hate that my VC games are going to forever be Wii versions and not general Nintendo account versions.

Means they will be lost forever by next console cycle.

The idea of having a permanent VC library is not going to happen.

Biggest single reason why I'm not getting a WiiU for a long time.

So if you get it later the problem will still be persistent. Eventually, you'll get one, so how does holding off buying one solve anything? Not that I disagree with you or anything, but it sort of baffles me.

 

[Bumhead]

Some of the reactions in this thread suggest there's going to be some amazing threads appearing on GAF when its time to talk about PS4 and Durango backwards comptability.

All these increasingly obscure work arounds prove is that backwards compatability has become an increasingly awkward, complicated and maybe even unwanted problem for the platform holders.

 

[brandonh83]

Man I hope at some point they release a "fix" that will allow VC games to be played on the gamepad. That's one thing I was really pulling for.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Some of the reactions in this thread suggest there's going to be some amazing threads appearing on GAF when its time to talk about PS4 and Durango backwards comptability.

All these increasingly obscure work arounds prove is that backwards compatability has become an increasingly awkward, complicated and maybe even unwanted problem for the platform holders.

I somehow doubt the volume of complaints will be comparable.

 

[nullset2]

Probably done to sandbox off the Wii's OS. Which has been completely hacked to ribbons at this point.

It'd be hilarious if a Wii U exploit is encountered down the line.... that used Wii Mode in some way.

 

[AndyMoogle]

Given that DSiware on 3DS is fully integrated into the eshop, is purchased using the same wallet funds...

The 3DS eShop wasn't ready for day 1 though, which gives some hope that they will sort it out eventually.

 

[Diablos54]

It'd be hilarious if a Wii U exploit is encountered down the line.... that used Wii Mode in some way.

Until Nintendo patch out Wii Mode in an firmware update.

 

[Omikaru]

Give Nintendo a chance to launch VC on WiiU properly. Right now they probably want the new eShop to have the spotlight. We'll be playing (newly bought) VC games on the GamePad before long. Meantime, you can play Wii-bought VC games on WiiU in exactly the same way you could on Wii, so why complain?

Are you implying that I should re-buy any VC games I bought on Wii to get them with new Wii U features? I mean, seriously?

I don't mind this Wii mode right now, even if it is a bit silly and counterintuitive (why not have it all in one UI?), but in the future our purchases on the Wii store should transfer to the Wii U eShop, and any VC games we have on Wii should be converted into Wii U eShop VC games.

If they expect me to re-buy my Virtual Console games to support new Wii U features, then they can fuck off.

 

[Despera]

Man I hope at some point they release a "fix" that will allow VC games to be played on the gamepad. That's one thing I was really pulling for.

tis a damn shame indeed.

 

[bdouble]

I somehow doubt the volume of complaints will be comparable.

Right but the BC compatibility of the actual retail games will most likely be non existent and PSN and XBL games will be in some form of emulation as well.

Sure its clumsy and a bit awkward but as we can see from this generation BC was a huge thing for the first few years and after that just died down. See PS3 having hardware, software then non existent. The way it is now the WiiU offers the third best BC we have seen besides the hardware PS2 on PS3 and the GC games on Wii.

 

[Zia]

So, wait, are they going to rerelease everything they've already put out for the Wii VC at a trickle, or is that stuff only going to be playable via the "Wii functionality," period?

 

[Elfforkusu]

I somehow doubt the volume of complaints will be comparable.

It's also less of a big deal for 360/PS3 games, because I can already play those games on my HDTV without wanting to pour bleach into my eyes. PS4/720 BS is not as important to me as a result.

 

[FyreWulff]

It'd be hilarious if a Wii U exploit is encountered down the line.... that used Wii Mode in some way.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong: I think the Wii exploits were found via GameCube mode from what I remember. An exploit was found in Twilight Princess GC which allowed them to find Nintendo's Wii private key in memory when running TP, because Nintendo forgot to clear out upper memory when in GameCube mode.

They're not very likely to repeat this mistake again - especially since nobody has yet to permanently break into the DSi, much less the 3DS. They got embarassed on the Wii, but they DID learn their lesson on security.

 

[boiled goose]

So if you get it later the problem will still be persistent. Eventually, you'll get one, so how does holding off buying one solve anything? Not that I disagree with you or anything, but it sort of baffles me.

I wont be buying any digital content from nintendo ever again basically.
I'll just get a WiiU later in the generation when it has enough retail 'must have' titles.

Buying a console is not just buying the hardware anymore. It is investing in a service.
I feel comfortable investing in steam, no matter how many times I upgrade my PC my steam licenses will always be associated with my account.

I will play must have WiiU games, but I will not invest in the Nintendo platform for the time being, because it still sucks and they are still clueless about how to handle digital content.

 

[DDayton]

It's logical to think its a possibility or could be done, but it's not logical to jump to conclusions and assume that Nintendo will do it.

True.

Assuming they saved all of the data and its in some sort of database that is easily accessible, and their unique per-system identifiers they're using for the Wii are not capable of being hacked on the client side like everything else on the Wii, then what you say is plausible. However, I see those as major problems that Nintendo will probably just avoid.

Yes, I could see Nintendo avoiding that point as well, due to problems -- however, my point is merely that there is a record of purchases available. The CN linking to Wii purchases shows that it is available at some level, and Nintendo customer support is already capable of tracking your purchases during problematic circumstances. However, they do have access to a record of purchases on each console... formatting your Wii system will delete all data, but you can still access your Shop account (with a complete list of all transactions) after it downloads/accesses your transaction history from the server.

I would say the very opposite. It seems not only premature to think Nintendo will even bother with VC on the WiiU, but also premature to think they'll even care that you've previously bought the games. I like Nintendo, but I tend to assume they will go the simplest route - in this case, just tell you to play the Wii mode VC version and go off doing something else.

Well, we both seem to be saying it's premature to rush to judgement -- I just think the assumption that dual Wii/Wii U VC releases with the expectation to repurchase is far less likely than the assumption of duel Wii/Wii U VC releases with Wii->Wii U downloads allowed.

Given the regular releases of Wii VC in Japan, though, I find it hard to believe we'll see no VC releases on the Wii U. The lack of news is annoying, of course.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

so it's a wii emulator on a wii u.

 

[Mr Swine]

Wii games should still look better playing them on a Wii U than a Wii since it uses HDMI. Also wont it be like displaying N64 games on the Wii? (They look really good on a HDTV with the Wii)

 

[Loofy]

No Gamepad support (for non-waggle titles)?

No HD?

I know it's been said before a million times but how fucking disappointing.

And this from someone who pre-ordered the Wii U the day I could btw.

Somehow they made it even more disappointing. Emulating the whole Wii UI to play game instead of integrating it into WiiU's? so lame.

 

[Christberg]

It'd be hilarious if a Wii U exploit is encountered down the line.... that used Wii Mode in some way.

I'm quite certain that angle will get attempted. Whether it works is another story. Nintendo's copy protection has gotten real tight in the last few years.

 

[zroid]

Are you implying that I should re-buy any VC games I bought on Wii to get them with new Wii U features?

I mean, seriously?

I don't mind this Wii mode right now, even if it is clunky, but in the future our purchases on the Wii store should transfer to the Wii U eShop, and any VC games we have on Wii should be converted into Wii U eShop VC games.

If they expect me to re-buy my Virtual Console games to support new Wii U features, then they can fuck off.

It would be really messed up to do that. Deferring to how the NES games have been handled on the 3DS eShop, Ambassadors have gotten access to their updates for free, when put up for sale.

 

[Linkhero1]

I wont be buying any digital content from nintendo ever again basically.
I'll just get a WiiU later in the generation when it has enough retail 'must have' titles.

Buying a console is not just buying the hardware anymore. It is investing in a service.
I feel comfortable investing in steam, no matter how many times I upgrade my PC my steam licenses will always be associated with my account.

I will play must have WiiU games, but I will not invest in the Nintendo platform for the time being, because it still sucks and they are still clueless about how to handle digital content.

Makes sense. I'd be pretty uneasy about purchasing a Wii U too if Nintendo keeps up this trend, however, I didn't invest in too many digital titles on the Wii. I probably would have held off buying a Wii U as well if Nintendo didn't have me by the balls.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Given that DSiware on 3DS is fully integrated into the eshop, is purchased using the same wallet funds...

... I would theorize that they're not being "lazy" now, because they do integrate things when feasible. Rather, they're suffering the consequences of an inadequate digital infrastructure from years ago. The Wii Shop content, wiiware software packages, and virtual console games, may be utterly incompatible with the newer, account based eshop.

Seriously though Nintendo should have started building the infrastructure for both online and eshop in 2009, 2010, and roll the whole damn thing adequately when the WiiU launches. Their handling of the eshop after years of PSN, Steam and XBLA is really ridiculous. They had years to learn from others and put their own vision and polish on the eshop, but they are still behind. It shows that Nintendo either lacked vision for the eshop, or that they did not bother much at launch.

 

[MarkusRJR]

Wii games should still look better playing them on a Wii U than a Wii since it uses HDMI. Also wont it be like displaying N64 games on the Wii? (They look really good on a HDTV with the Wii)

N64 VC games are running at a higher resolution than they were originally.

 

[fabricated backlash]

It's also less of a big deal for 360/PS3 games, because I can already play those games on my HDTV without wanting to pour bleach into my eyes. PS4/720 BS is not as important to me as a result.

Until 4k comes around and HD will make you want to pour bleach into your eyes.

 

[TheGreatDivide]

I don't think playing Wii discs is important. Backwards compatibility is a buzzword.

But your digital stuff, especially VC stuff, should be playable natively in every form possible. This system is a joke. Even 3DS handled it better.

 

[boiled goose]

Makes sense. I'd be pretty uneasy about purchasing a Wii U too if Nintendo keeps up this trend, however, I didn't invest in too many digital titles on the Wii. I probably would have held off buying a Wii U as well if Nintendo didn't have me by the balls.

It only hurts Nintendo really. I stopped buying VC games when I realized that they were tied to a console and that hope of a transfer to a unified and universal Nintendo account was unlikely.

I wish I had an amazing retro game library like my music library or my steam game library.
Sadly, not going to happen for the time being. :/

 

[MicH]

Like mentioned a million times in this thread, I truly hope that Nintendo will, eventually, make the content available in the Wii U eShop so it's run natively on the Wii U - and making, especially, the VC games able to run on the GamePad.