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Welcome to Wii U's BC for Wii: It's a console within a console! :(
- Thread starter MarkusRJR
- Start date
This actually led me to go back and buy some NES and SNES carts of games I want to be able to play whenever. I'm always afraid that digital games I download on XBLA and Wii VC won't be available anymore in the near future, so it's really hard for me to purchase a digital game that isn't on Steam. MS does make transferring licenses a lot easier compared to Nintendo, but whether those XBLA games can be carried onto the next iteration is what worries me. If Nintendo is able to make the Wii U account a universal account that will be tied onto the next console then I'll be one happy retro gamer.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
I truly hope you enjoy rebuying the games you own once again.
Yeah, cuz Nintendo is the only one guilty of that
Elfforkusu
Member
More accurate would be "HD blown up with weird artifacting onto a 4K screen", but sure, in 15 years I will be pissed when the XBox 2880 doesn't have BC.
.
I hope Xenoblade gets one, at least!
Seeing as I only bought about 6-7 VC games it's not really a problem for me. If/when they come to the Wii U eShop wih GamePad support I'll definitely expand my collection a lot more! (also yay at 3DS Ambassador games)
Dear god YES. I absolutely NEED this to happen!
TheGreatDivide
Banned
Did I say they were? Or are you just being overly defensive of Nintendo?
This shouldn't even be a thread ;_;
Elfforkusu
Member
Plus, if they hurry up and release it next year, it can be the first ever back-to-back-to-back-to-back GOTY!
Cause you're not overly critical of Nintendo or anything...
TheGreatDivide
Banned
Cause you're not overly critical of Nintendo or anything...
I don't think I am. If funds were limitless I'd be buying a Wii U at launch cos I'm pretty sure NSMB U is gonna be a great game, and I know I'll buy the system eventually because I'm still a whore for Nintendo first party. I'm just not enthusiastic about a lot of the design choices around the console.
Wii I is almost certainly the only "next gen" (I know) system I'll buy.
snowdog1971
Banned
I think it's more to do with the mods, in their infinite wisdom, deciding to lock the official Wii U thread.
Should be zero difference.
DonMigs85
Member
Since it's pure digital HDMI now I was hoping it would look a bit sharper and have less color bleed. Even the GameCube's component output was slightly better than Wii's.
Considering the only versions available here in PAL land were the shitty 50hz versions with massive borders and muted colours, which is unnaceptable in this day and age, I only brought a couple.
Luckily, homebrew and SNES9X offered me a far better experience than what Nintendo were offering on their shitty UK VC. I even brought a retrode so I could back up all my SNES and NES games for use on the Wii. Far cheaper, and a far better experience (most of my SNES collection right now is imported US).
So yeah, I would be open to buying new VC versions. But Nintendo will fuck it up again. They'll choose to give us the shitty 50hz PAL versions again. So yeah, here's hoping for homebrew.
lightchris
Member
I think I have a explanation on why they use this "Wii mode" that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet (sorry if I missed it):
Do you remember things like the Mario Kart Kart Wii channel? In order for them to work you need to emulate the whole Wii OS, otherwise it could crash or behave unpredictably. Now that I think about it, even the Wii message board could be problematic.
And btw., is there any clear statement that denies upscaling? I still think it's possible that the whole Wii mode is upscaled.
Do you remember things like the Mario Kart Kart Wii channel? In order for them to work you need to emulate the whole Wii OS, otherwise it could crash or behave unpredictably. Now that I think about it, even the Wii message board could be problematic.
And btw., is there any clear statement that denies upscaling? I still think it's possible that the whole Wii mode is upscaled.
Urgh, I very much agree. Why on Earth do they insist on giving of 50 hz versions? It's absolutely ridiculous - especially when the 60 hz versions are available to use instead!
TheGreatDivide
Banned
I just find the segregation of the shops baffling. It surely can't be that difficult to make Wii U versions of Virtual Console games. It's just an emulator, why can't a more powerful console easily emulate the games?
The way they did it on 3DS made a ton of sense so this is just weird.
Bill Rizer
Member
Would be nice if at least Hdmi provides the correct overscan for all games, seen as many still had black borders via component on all my tvs (including Donkey Kong CR, very infuriating with its thin border on the upper side).
But, realistically, I don't think it will make any difference whatsoever.
But, realistically, I don't think it will make any difference whatsoever.
Wii Mode means the console will output into 480p, the only upscaling will be done by the TV which is exactly what the Wii was doing before
They have to recode each game, since emulation was done on a game-by-game basis (I think), so that's why. Silly decision, but they can't go back in time or anything to change it so that's that. Hopefully they'll redo all the VC games and let you update for free. But it's Nintendo so fuck knows what they're actually going to do.
Its because of localisation issues, unfortunately. USA 60hz versions don't have the languages required in a lot of games.
They could force 60hz like my modded SNES and emulators do - but that introduces odd artifacts with the BG2 layer in some games like alttp and smw.
Agent X
Member
These are all good points.
I hope that someday Nintendo can figure out a way to allow the Wii U controllers to be used with Wii games, at least as far as acting as a substitute for the Classic Controller. If they could get CC-supported games (such as Virtual Console) to display a screen image on the Wii U GamePad, even better.
Some people might think these feats are impossible, since an actual Wii system doesn't support Wii U controllers. However, PlayStation 3 still plays PS1 & PS2 games using the Sixaxis or Dual Shock 3, neither of which work on an actual PS1 or PS2 system. Same with Xbox 360, which uses your Xbox 360 controllers to play original Xbox games. With that in mind, it's possible Nintendo could update the Wii U OS in the future to read GamePad or ProController input, and map them to Wii Remote and/or Classic Controller commands to be passed along to the Wii emulator.
I don't know about that. I liked the way Game Boy Advance handled Game Boy/Game Boy Color compatibility. You could use the GBA triggers to enable or disable widescreen stretch for the screen image at any time.
I'd like to know the answers to these questions as well.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Does that mean that mods/hacks/homebrew will exist as it does in Vita?
Really? No wonder my Wii filled up quickly.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
I don't buy that. At bet they had a few settings for an emulator, but they're not making extensive new software for each game.
The reason is almost certainly a piracy related one rather than a genuine technical limitation. It shouldn't be hard to say "read the rom from this file and open it in this new Wii U version of the emulator".
My theory is this: Nintendo was forward thinking with regards to how DSiWare ended up on the 3DS eShop because it's a lot easier for a company to see how things should be going when you're two years out from the release of your next system, as was the case with the DSi leading to the 3DS, than six years out, as we're seeing from Wii to Wii U. I would not at all be surprised if Wii Shop Channel purchases were hard-coded to only exist in a Wii OS environment. Obviously, they are going to do Wii U versions of the VC games (when and how are the mysteries), but I think that the WiiWare stuff is never going to make that same leap.
Keep dreaming.
Neff
Member
Most games before last gen were created as language-specific products and only released in their respective countries, so I don't think that was a big issue. It's more likely that Nintendo was extremely conscious of the fact that they were releasing a budget-priced mass-appeal TV console in an era where LCD/Plasma wasn't so commonplace, and it was likely that a lot of Europeans would have still been using 50hz-only CRTs in 2006. Given that they're now releasing a HD console that ships with HDMI, those past concerns are probably not relevant.
It's worth noting that the 3DS NES titles on the eShop run at NTSC speed, so fingers crossed.
Starwolf_UK
Member
Yieks. Thats quite disappointing and makes transferring seem pointless (unless you decide to take the empty Wii and change its region or something better done on a clean slate). So does this mean the Wii U eShop is going to be barren or will it be VC/WiiWare is just shortcuts to boot up Wii mode and the Wii Shop with its separate (?) wallet (kind of like how the Nintendo channel was). The latter is less than ideal but the former would be a disaster for the VC effectively hiding it.
Wonder if WiiU mode VC will work out and transfer or if it'll be ""If you want to play SMB on your GamePad better be paying us $5 again....". I appreciate porting an emulator is some work and the Wii Shop terms are license to play game on Wii and Wii only but that would feel bad.
-Real 16:9 and not anamorphic widescreen (640*480). This should reduce jaggles a fair amount
-Digital out rather than analogue. This will make it crisper. Hopefully it'll sort out some colour issues in places (bits of Skyward Sword where I got strange banding effects).
I assume the TG-16 Vaseline filter (btw, I doubt the games affected will ever be repaired) was some sort of misunderstanding of signal outputs that could be used and how.
As for the "but languages". The Zelda Gamecube discs used some sort of system to get the games into non-English and were 60Hz only. My ideal would be an accessible options menu (like the VC arcade games) where I can set output and patches to use that are unlockable (say I always want to play hard mode in SMB without running though the game once) or even LUA style stuff like the Metroid map/equipment (http://www.neillcorlett.com/metroidlua/).
Its a shame its impossible to talk to somebody in Nintendo about this. I suppose a hand-written letter to Satoru Shibita over in Germany might be a possible shot (though honestly I wouldn't even expect a reply but its a higher chance than tweeting, thats for sure) but I expect little to be done because it requires working on the emulators and testing them until no bugs are found (that'll take a while).
Wonder if WiiU mode VC will work out and transfer or if it'll be ""If you want to play SMB on your GamePad better be paying us $5 again....". I appreciate porting an emulator is some work and the Wii Shop terms are license to play game on Wii and Wii only but that would feel bad.
Hopefully it is:
-Real 16:9 and not anamorphic widescreen (640*480). This should reduce jaggles a fair amount
-Digital out rather than analogue. This will make it crisper. Hopefully it'll sort out some colour issues in places (bits of Skyward Sword where I got strange banding effects).
The decision was likely made by somebody who had no clue of the consequences. They saw a spec sheet of something like original versions and thought that meant it had to be 50Hz despite the fact NES Classics, Zelda CE etc were 60Hz. Pleased the eShop got it right (though I keep hearing conflicting answers).
I assume the TG-16 Vaseline filter (btw, I doubt the games affected will ever be repaired) was some sort of misunderstanding of signal outputs that could be used and how.
As for the "but languages". The Zelda Gamecube discs used some sort of system to get the games into non-English and were 60Hz only. My ideal would be an accessible options menu (like the VC arcade games) where I can set output and patches to use that are unlockable (say I always want to play hard mode in SMB without running though the game once) or even LUA style stuff like the Metroid map/equipment (http://www.neillcorlett.com/metroidlua/).
Its a shame its impossible to talk to somebody in Nintendo about this. I suppose a hand-written letter to Satoru Shibita over in Germany might be a possible shot (though honestly I wouldn't even expect a reply but its a higher chance than tweeting, thats for sure) but I expect little to be done because it requires working on the emulators and testing them until no bugs are found (that'll take a while).
Let's be honest: 10% of most libraries is all you ever need, period. Of course, the 10% that's worthwhile isn't necessarily the 10% that'd actually be enabled if they could only do that much, just look at how we lack some fan favorites like Otogi on 360, or junk like Spec Ops is enabled on the Vita while games like Crash are still MIA.
I think that's very unlikely. Increasing the rendering resolution from 640x480 to 854x480 requires all the engineering you'd need to go to any other resolution, so why not go all the way to 720p if they did that?
You can not "buy it" all you want, the truth actually wins out on this.
The emulation software wrapper on VC titles was intended to address things that exist as issues with universal hardware emulation software. This is an absolute fact that even the makers of emulation software state as fact:
Accuracy takes power: one man's 3GHz quest to build a perfect SNES emulator
Emulators like SNES9X or ZSNES use tricks to make it seem like it's perfectly emulated, but anyone can tell you that you will see cracks in the facade of any and every game you run through those emulators at some point or another.
To achieve perfect emulation, you either need major hardware kit or you need to re-write the software for each piece of kit it's used on. Especially when they have new hardware to consider in games that existed before said hardware was introduced, such as visual data streaming to a screen in the person's hand.
So NO, the tweaks aren't that simple. This is something that anyone who talks about emulated software should know before discussing the technical feasibility of switching platforms.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
Look, you can easily get the ROM file from the VC download. All they need to do is have a functional emulator, which shouldn't be difficult given how powerful the Wii U is in comparison to Wii. If Nintendo ever offer Wii U versions of VC games, it'll just be the same ROM wrapped in an emulator anyway.
This is actually the most disappointing Wii U news for me out of all of them...I was hoping that at the very least, VC and WiiWare games would just be converted to eShop titles, just like DSiWare titles are able to be purchased on 3DS eshop. I don't like this...=/ Just seems kinda half assed.
It's really not as simple as you're making out.
sakipon
Member
An interesting thought. Perhaps people will be freely installing all the familiar homebrew in the Wii mode.
Brainiac 8
Member
I don't think Nintendo got the memo that BC is so last Gen.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Don't bother, he's got something negative to say in literally every single Wii U thread I've seen him in, regardless of topic. There couldn't be a more obvious agenda.
At it is, they're only going to be able to do this with their own first party titles. Third party games would have to be re-licensed for Wii U sale and re-ESRB'd anyway.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
It shouldn't be more complicated. Logic would say the Wii U should look at your files, see Mario 64, list it and when you want to play it it opens the ROM inside the Wii U native N64 emulator.
I understand Wii games not being enhanced, it's probably more difficult to build a functional GameCube emulator. But I refuse to believe Nintendo would struggle to get an N64 emulator working on Wii U and are incapable of matching the efforts of enthusiasts
This is such a fucking lazy argument. I have dozens of virtual console games. A I supposed to 1) not post my dissatisfaction about the way they work on Wii U or B) only post positive things about Nintendo? Please choose for me.
TheMagician
Member
If you ever needed proof that Nintendo get a rougher ride than anyone else you only have to read this thread title and opening post.
Nintendo deliver BC infinitely better than that offered by competitors but it still gets a good old ''.
Poor.
Nintendo deliver BC infinitely better than that offered by competitors but it still gets a good old '
'. Poor.
Well how does the 3DS eShop get away with it then? Like I said before, it seems like all the DSiWare games I've ever looked up are on the eShop. Seems unlikely they were all re-licensed, and if they were, why is it such a problem to do it for WiiWare titles too?
TheGreatDivide
Banned
If you ever needed proof that Nintendo get a rougher ride than anyone else you only have to read this thread title and opening post.
Nintendo deliver BC infinitely better than that offered by competitors but it still gets a good old '
Poor.
If people can't play their XBLA or PSN games in a less obnoxious style on 720 and PS4, there will be a huge backlash in both cases.
Yes, an emulator that is coded specifically for that game to run specifically on the hardware it was written to run on.
You really should read the article I linked to, since it has quotes from someone who ACTUALLY MAKES EMULATION SOFTWARE confirming that it's not as simple as you suggest it is. I think I'll trust an expert telling me what is and isn't feasible.
DragonSworne
Banned
If you ever needed proof that Nintendo get a rougher ride than anyone else you only have to read this thread title and opening post.
Nintendo deliver BC infinitely better than that offered by competitors but it still gets a good old '
Poor.
Downloadable games should not be regarded among "backwards compatibility".
I know Sony and MS will face an even harder time trying to get their online library playable on their next gen system, but these companies should have been a little future thinking when it comes to online software.
Well, people have had success WAD injecting a good number of 8-bit and 16-bit games, so it does seem like an emulator they tweak the values of as necessary. N64's another problem, hopefully that can get something of a second wind on the more capable Wii U.
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