Like I mentioned, it was probably a lot easier for Nintendo to see what was going on with DSiWare with regards to their next system supporting it since it was released in much closer proximity than the Wii was with regards to the Wii U.
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Welcome to Wii U's BC for Wii: It's a console within a console! :(
- Thread starter MarkusRJR
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Like I mentioned, it was probably a lot easier for Nintendo to see what was going on with DSiWare with regards to their next system supporting it since it was released in much closer proximity than the Wii was with regards to the Wii U.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Obviously neither of those things. It's just that you've already chosen C) only post negative things about Nintendo. Without exception. It's just as ridiculous a choice as the two you've proposed.
One negative opinion is something. The same negativity in every single Nintendo thread, regardless of topic? This is an agenda.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
The emulator is just the emulator with a few settings set up to allow optimal performance of that game. That data is still available. They could apply the same settings to a Wii U version of the emulator. You're making excuses for laziness. I am well aware how difficult emulation is, but it shouldn't be hard for Nintendo of all companies to emulate an N64 when they've already done it on weaker hardware, and it wouldn't be hard to build software that can adapt to optimal settings for each ROM.
They were relicensed, and not all of them made the jump over to the 3DS version of the DSiShop
The thing is, no software emulators are 100% accurate. Plus they'd have to test every single game all over again, check for bugs, exploits, glitches and the like. Doing all this for all the different systems and all the different games is just plain silly when they've already done all this for the Wii's VC. I guess it depends on whether you want 100% compatibility, or are willing to risk this just for the sake of not having to go into Wii mode, and for a few extra options. Nintendo are always going to choose the 100% compatibility option, because if they didn't, and a game like, say, Mario 64 doesn't work perfectly, they'd get hammered by the media/GAF.
There are some great articles out there on emulation. It's not as easy as you think. Emulating games made for old hardware is REALLY complex - especially ACCURATE emulation. You may wanna read this: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/...-3ghz-quest-to-build-a-perfect-snes-emulator/
They surely could just dump all the games out there at launch but I doubt that'd be in everyone's best interest. There may also be licensing issues since this is now a new platform.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
You are repeating the same argument over and over. Nintendo could do it. Nintendo have instead taken the route that takes no effort on their part.
The 3DS gets away with it because the DSi's OS wasn't completely and utterly blown apart by hackers.
Apart from some IOS blocking (usb for example), I fully expect homebrew to be completely up and running on the Wii U's Wii mode within a day of release. Seriously.
That's why its sandboxed so much.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
What should I be posting about Nintendo that's positive at the minute? Considering we don't own Wii U's, should I be posting about how wonderful it is? Should I sharing my excitement for the amazing launch lineup of Mario and Games I Don't Care Bout?
I have no agenda against Nintendo, they're literally the only console manufacture I have any interest in whatsoever. That's why I'm actually posting about Wi U and haven't even bothered reading threads about 720 and PS4. Hell, I'm certain 720 and PS4 will not appeal to me at all. Stop being a hypersensitive baby because all Wii U discussion doesn't take placed in a sanitised mega thread anymore where everyone jerks each other off.
Every time you change a CPU, GPU and RAM type, new issues will present themselves that compromise emulation that were not present previously. Had you read that article that D-e-f- and I provided, you would know this.
Heck, you don't even have to do that, just look at the slew of optimizations that are required for Wii games to even run properly on Dolphin, never mind the visual enhancements. Even the most compatible title still sees hiccups and bugs due to the vast array of hardware configurations that the emulator tries to compensate for.
Considering how Sony and MS both totally dropped the ball with BC this gen, I wouldn't be shocked if their next consoles have major issues too.
At least Wii U has 100% BC, even if it's no frills. You will be able to play your VC games the same way as when you bought them.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
Are you saying now that you think Nintendo will not be able to release functional emulators for Wii U? Because unless you think that, I have no idea what point you're trying to argue.
I've worked with SNES ASM in the past many times, as well as adding some calls to a custom snes9x build in the past for debugging said code.
Terrel is spot on with his emulator talk. Each Nintendo VC game is emulated to near flawless levels with independent code.
Nintendo won't offer a system wide emulator.
They could use the code repositories from their VC work to build one if they did though.
Terrel is spot on with his emulator talk. Each Nintendo VC game is emulated to near flawless levels with independent code.
Nintendo won't offer a system wide emulator.
They could use the code repositories from their VC work to build one if they did though.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Please do not put words in my mouth. I don't give a rat's ass about masturbatory mega-thread horse shit. I just happen to see a ton of interesting stuff in the glimpses we've seen of the various interfaces, and I find it hard to believe that someone could be so universally disgusted by every element of them.
If Nintendo is the only console manufacturer you have any interest in whatsoever, I would think that there's something about "Nintendo's way of doing things" that you're a fan of. Everything we've seen so far is exactly that: Nintendo's way of doing things. That's not to say they are immune to critique, but you have only negative things to say. With as disillusioned as you appear to be with every element of the Wii U, maybe you should re-evaluate which manufacturers you actually direct your interest towards.
Starwolf_UK
Member
The emulator part isn't difficult provided they kept the source for each emulator they made (snes9x is commonly ported to everything). Getting the desired features (Game Pad output) though and changing stuff (say, if the manuals aren't HTML anymore) will take time though.
I'm supervised there wasn't a beta version lacking those features (like the Ambassador NES titles) but if its a small handful due to license it might be best to be all or nothing.
All this talk made me realise. The removed VC games (all R-Type games). How likely is it work will be done on those emulators. They won't be sold to anyone as they're unavailable to buy. Does this make having them in your account a hollow victory? Will the console that comes after the Wii U (if there is one) continue to support MS-DO...I mean Wii mode?
Also I wouldn't hold hopes for VC Arcade, C64 or TG-16 being ported (the latter due to lack on 3DS).
I'm supervised there wasn't a beta version lacking those features (like the Ambassador NES titles) but if its a small handful due to license it might be best to be all or nothing.
All this talk made me realise. The removed VC games (all R-Type games). How likely is it work will be done on those emulators. They won't be sold to anyone as they're unavailable to buy. Does this make having them in your account a hollow victory? Will the console that comes after the Wii U (if there is one) continue to support MS-DO...I mean Wii mode?
Also I wouldn't hold hopes for VC Arcade, C64 or TG-16 being ported (the latter due to lack on 3DS).
As said some DSiWare titles are missing and not always due to license (Flipnote studio comes to mind). I'd imagine WiiWare to more of a bloodbath due to the awful original contract.
My Wii is hooked up through component cables to my HDTV so basically games like Last Story or Xenoblade wont look any better hooked up component or HDMI on the Wii U right?...I was hoping for a small bump in sharpness or less jaggies or like a softening effect or something...oh well,still getting one but not at launch for now....
They will look better.
Analogue component VS Digital HDMI.
For proof, compare a GC game using the wii's analogue component output to the GC's digital output. GC is far superior to the Wii.
You won't get any edge enhancement or res bumps though lol
Game Pad output sounds like it'd be pretty easy at least, just a new function in the emulator. Seems they set that up to work easily with any game in lieu of a TV.
TheNatural
My Member!
So what happens if someone runs Bannerbomb in Wii mode on WiiU? Will stuff like Homebrew Channel work? Should be interesting.
CrunchyFrog
Member
This is a piracy curbing measure. Wii has already been cracked open entirely. If they were going to offer BC in any substantial way on Wii U, they were going to have to shut it out from the rest of the system entirely. I can't say I blame them, though I wish it wasn't in such a clumsy fashion.
Spieler Eins
Member
It would be awkward if VC isn't part of the new eshop, DSiWare is also still continued on the 3DS shop. It would also be cumbersome if they once again start a new VC from scratch, like on the 3DS. I was planning on getting some import VC titles on the WiiU that I haven't bought yet, since I didn't want to upload any more points to my dying Wii.
And although it's annoying that my downloads will most likely still not be account-bound, at least I can finally put them on a console that's not about to break soon, so I guess that's at least something...
And although it's annoying that my downloads will most likely still not be account-bound, at least I can finally put them on a console that's not about to break soon, so I guess that's at least something...
H_Prestige
Banned
So we shouldn't expect 100% Wii BC? Considering how difficult it is to emulate consoles.
My argument isn't that they can't or won't, merely that it's not as easy as you or others imply and it takes time, time they were likely spending making sure the OS, Miiverse and eShop were pinned down prior to launch.
"Wii Mode" is a better option than not having anything for BC at launch at all.
VC will be there with Gamepad playability. It's just not here NOW.
Well it's hardware emulation, not software, so, yes, you can expect 100% BC, just like all Nintendo systems.
H_Prestige
Banned
There's Wii hardware in the Wii U?
Spieler Eins
Member
I think in the EU Direct for the WiiU introduction, they've said that you can expect most Wii software to work - so apparently not 100%?
I'm not the best person to answer this, someone like Wispel would be, but if I'm right, the CPU has the Wii features sorta bolted on to help with BC. I would assume the same would apply to the GPU but like I said, I'm not the best person to ask this too.
Hmm interesting. I dunno. Hopefully it is 100%, that's what I would expect from Nintendo BC.
I bet they've killed USB functionality on it to scupper backups. So stuff like U Sing or whatever it is called, maybe?
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
I'm expecting Wii U VC will comprise the same legacy systems (plus new ones like Gamecube, Dresmcast, Saturn) and just progressively reoffer the same stuff with more options (Off-TV play, save states, 720p/1080p/1080i). If we're lucky Nintendo will allow Wii VC owners a free update for the U versions when they become available, at least for 1st party games. There was actually a rumor last year that Nintendo would be doing this with Wii U VC (offering updated "HD versions" of NES and SNES games).
Having the stores separated is too bad though. The 3DS eShop evidently revived DSiWare as a platform and massively increased sales, I was hoping Wii U's eShop would do the same for WiiWare and Virtual Console but I don't see that happening with fragmented storefronts. It's a shame too as there were a bunch of great releases this year like La-Mulana, Retro City Rampage or Monster World IV that really deserve a bit more attention than they got.
Having the stores separated is too bad though. The 3DS eShop evidently revived DSiWare as a platform and massively increased sales, I was hoping Wii U's eShop would do the same for WiiWare and Virtual Console but I don't see that happening with fragmented storefronts. It's a shame too as there were a bunch of great releases this year like La-Mulana, Retro City Rampage or Monster World IV that really deserve a bit more attention than they got.
that'd also affect Rock Band and later Guitar Heroes
Do you even understand how terrible the current Wii digital store is?
lightchris
Member
Yeah, I think it's something like that.
And I also think that the emulation will mostly be on a hardware basis.
I love how BC is somehow super important now, when Xbox 360 and PS3 fans have been screaming all gen that full BC isn't important. Now everyone wants to get real picky about implementations.
You BC fans are gonna be real disappointed when Nextbox and PS4 show up.
You BC fans are gonna be real disappointed when Nextbox and PS4 show up.
It will be on a hardware basis, with some IOS alteration.
Like I said before, Nintendo know the Wii OS is beyond saving in terms of how much its been hacked, hence the complete and utter sandboxing we see here.
Anyway. It'll be homebrew enabled immediately, I'm sure, which is why Nintendo has probably made the right choice here.
I recall people getting upset at the lack of GBA BC on the DSi.
Starwolf_UK
Member
The same thing that happens on a Wii with the latest menu. Absolutely nothing.
I suppose the other exploits (Smash Stack, Yu-Gi-OWNED!, Bathaxx, Return of the Jodi, Indiana Pwns, Eri HaKawai and Letterbomb) may work though. Unless of course SD card is disabled (or certain directories are inaccessible)...I do find it odd how the example screenshot is missing the News, Weather, Photo and Mii channels though (I guess Miis are symbolically linked and it and the others are phased out due to Wii U mode offering these in some capacity).
DDR. Needs to plug into Gamecube controller port.
I don't see the latter two happening. SEGA would have probably done so. Instead we've seen games ported from scratch (Guardian Heroes) or ported form PC versions (the Dreamcast games).
Its odd as Gametap used to have Saturn games and in Japan SEGA had some sort of game rental using a version of Giri Giri. Both were emulated.
As someone who keeps all his consoles, I'm not a huge fan of BC. Throwing the actual hardware of the Wii in that case probably boosts the price by a good ~$50...
DonMigs85
Member
Nintendo usually does BC only for the prior generation system. But by removing the GBA port they also killed off the DS rumble pak and other stuff.
TheNatural
My Member!
The latest Wii menu could be hacked. Banner or letter or whatever its called, I don't keep up with the names, but one of them with the SD card could set a 'bomb' in the messages, and opening it causes the exploit and ability to install Homebrew Channel and BootMii.
I wonder if it might be possible for WiiWare/VC games to be displayed and curated on the Wii U eShop, but when selected, it transfers you to the Wii Shop Channel, whether silently or visibly.
Not an ideal solution but it would certainly help prevent WiiWare games from being sent to oblivion.
Actually, SD card slot aside (which would've probably been there anyway, but enabled for Wii U games without Wii games supported) I'm pretty sure Wii hardware is ALSO the Wii U hardware. They probably just run at lower power and shut down unnecessary cores, or relegate the extra cores to Wii U stuff while one's running at Wii speed with only Wii functions enabled. It's the best way of BC short of good software emulation, because you don't really have to worry about blowing much money to support it.
PS3 people have been crying over the lost PS2 compatibility ever since they took it out in early 2008. I was one of them and resorted to buying a used launch PS3 off eBay instead of going with a pretty good deal on a brand new system.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
XBLA/PSN versions tend to be enhanced conversions (this goes for most classic releases, really just the Genesis stuff isn't), which goes against the VC ethos. They also aren't done at M2, who I expect Sega will want to work with again for this stuff.
I think we might see Sega CD and maybe 32X too. Dunno about other formats... maybe 3DO? Sega's Model 2 games would make sense too.
Agent X
Member
I agree with this, but want to quote it as it leads up to Terrell's response below:
Right. I believe the point that TheGreatDivide was trying to make is that each Virtual Console game contains the original ROM image, along with extra data that tells the emulator how to achieve the best performance on that particular game. Are we in agreement here?
To achieve native Wii U emulation of an existing Wii VC game that a user previously purchased, you could extract the ROM image alone from that file, then run that on the "improved" Wii U emulator. The extra data may or may not be needed, as the Wii U emulator would (as you pointed out) run differently from the Wii, and might have its own settings to adjust for CPU & GPU differences.
For example, let's say someone bought Metroid for NES on the Wii Virtual Console. He wants to play it on the Wii U VC, with any features that Wii U VC would offer (such as support for the GamePad screen). Here's how this would work:
1. Wii U recognizes the previously downloaded Wii VC Metroid game as "Metroid" (because of the other data in the file).
2. Wii U reads just the ROM data from that file. At this point, it might not need that extra data any longer.
3. Wii U inserts that ROM image into its own native NES emulator, and at the same time adds the necessary tweaks to best emulate Metroid (either from the extra data in the VC file, or looking up from its own profile list). Remember, in step 1, the system knows it's working with Metroid, and not Mega Man or Ninja Gaiden or Super Mario Bros., so it knows how it's supposed to tweak the emulator for Metroid.
The user would not (and should not) have to rebuy any of his VC games, if Nintendo implements this properly.
Alternatively, the Wii U could simply do step 1 (recognizing the game), then download the entire Wii U VC version from Nintendo's online servers.
Agreed.
I sure hope that it comes along soon enough, and without requiring Wii owners to rebuy VC games.
Agent X
Member
That's not entirely true with regard to the "ethos". They've already added enhancements to Space Harrier (arcade) and Super Street Fighter II (Genesis) on the Virtual Console, so the precedent is there.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
They're still emulated ROMs though, not recoded ports. N64 had resolution upgrades (480p) from the start too.