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[Earthpainting]

The "RPG made by a Japanese developer" seems like a rather pointless genre definition. If a western developer would make a blatant, by-the-numbers Dragon Quest clone, would it become a different genre from the game it was based on?

I find the subtypes of RPGs a lot more useful for classifying games, as they tell you something about the style of gameplay. If games like Fire Emblem and Dark Souls both fall under the same genre moniker, it's probably a good reason to stop using it.

 

[Kayhan]

I don't see this as a problem. We have plenty of sub-descriptors that more readily identify what each game is.

Consider this hierarchy I just created:

These games are all JRPGs, but are all clearly in different subgenres.

This is probably the most objective we can get.

 

[pants]

I don't see this as a problem. We have plenty of sub-descriptors that more readily identify what each game is.

Consider this hierarchy I just created:

These games are all JRPGs, but are all clearly in different subgenres.

Strong agreements, +1s and many facebook likes for the sub-genre Tales finds itself in

 

[Sentenza]

Game mechanics.

I consider games like Anachronox and Black Sigil jrpg.

Yep, people for some reason seem almost hostile to acknowledge this, but while "JRPG" means simply "japanese RPG" in literal terms, the term over time has been tied to a subset of typical elements that you can identify in many games, regardless of where they come from.

"Cthulhu saves the world" is a JRPG, for instance, not because it's from Japan, but because it takes all its mechanics directly from that kind of products.

 

[HolyBaikal]

I'm so glad that this thread was so quickly derailed by us commenting on someone's subjective taste in RPGs.

 

[sangreal]

if a japanese company made fallout I wouldn't call it a jrpg. to me, a jrpg is the specific style of gameplay most associated with final fantasy. parties, levels, world map, menu-based combat etc.

 

[Izick]

Obviously a game made in Japan, but when I see games like Dark Souls, I don't really think JRPG just because it's so unique.

if a japanese company made fallout I wouldn't call it a jrpg. to me, a jrpg is the specific style of gameplay most associated with final fantasy. parties, levels, world map, menu-based combat etc.

Precisely.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

I don't see this as a problem. We have plenty of sub-descriptors that more readily identify what each game is.

Consider this hierarchy I just created:

These games are all JRPGs, but are all clearly in different subgenres.

 

[Levyne]

Are you implying that they don't exist? Strategy JRPG, turn based JRPG, and so on...

No

 

[someguyinahat]

if there is a hot springs scene it's a jrpg

You heard it here first, folks; Kid Icarus Uprising is officially a JRPG.

 

[TheExodu5]

You heard it here first, folks; Kid Icarus Uprising is officially a JRPG.

As is Asura's Wrath.

 

[HolyBaikal]

Hi, if you like it, it's probably in the garbage RPG category. sorry

rules are rules

And here I thought moderators didn't like derailing threads with bad jokes.

In any case, to be on topic. I hope.

 

[Levyne]

That post was a joke, guys

 

[Chronoja]

The amount of people equating jRPG to japanese developed games is astoundingly and so truly inaccurate (imo ofc). The style originated from japanese developers but in no way constrains so that a jRPG is developed there.

As a bad example, consider Cthulhu saves the world / Breath of Death VII by Zeboyd Games. Parodies they may be, jrpg in style, japanese they are not.

It is a genre exhibitting a collection of tropes that define it, not a tag denoting the country a game was developed in, evidenced by the fact that we don't have jFPS etc. since there is no japanese collection of tropes that apply to this genre to make it distinctly different.

 

[Goli]

I'm so glad that this thread was so quickly derailed by us commenting on someone's subjective taste in RPGs.

It just so happened that a lot of people agreed (or mostly agreed) with Y2Kev's views.

 

[Mockingbird]

For me it is as simple as an rpg made by japanese people in japan.

 

[SkyOdin]

Honestly, never played a SaGa game aside from the old GB ones... so no comment there.

Then it is no surprise that you are defining JRPG and WRPG in such a silly manner.

The SaGa series of Square RPGs is about as nonlinear as it gets. All of the games in the Romancing SaGa series are defined by both the ability to pick your starting main character from a list of 8, and the ability to travel the world freely and do sidequests in a very loose order. It is also one of Square's oldest franchises, made by one of its founding members, and through the early PS1 era had as many installments as the Final Fantasy franchise, many of which were wildly popular in Japan.

The problem with people trying to use JRPG as genre definition is that it is typically based on a perception that Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games are the extent of the genre, and a general ignorance of everything else produced by Japan. Only a small fraction of Japanese produced RPGs became hit successes in the west, but those games are not the extent of what is produced by the country.

For example, sometimes people will claim that Demon's Souls isn't a JRPG, but that ignores two key facts: Demon's Souls has little in common with western RPGs, and it is the successor to From Software's King's Field franchise, which has been around since the beginning of the PS1 era. Games in its general genre have been around and popular in Japan for years and years. Claiming that it isn't a Japanese-styled game is quite silly, since it is part of a well-established Japanese RPG genre.

 

[MuddyDonut]

The "RPG made by a Japanese developer" seems like a rather pointless genre definition. If a western developer would make a blatant, by-the-numbers Dragon Quest clone, would it become a different genre from the game it was based on?

I find the subtypes of RPGs a lot more useful for classifying games, as they tell you something about the style of gameplay. If games like Fire Emblem and Dark Souls both fall under the same genre moniker, it's probably a good reason to stop using it.

Agreed. Plus labeling a game as "the Japanese made it!" doesn't bother people?

 

[Mlatador]

To me...

Love! Passion! Great music, an awesome turn-based battle system (ATB and Grandia 1 battle system, YO!!!), a fantasy setting of some sorts (classical, steam-punk or a mix), interesting story, lots of exploration, lots of weapons, spells.

On a very basic level: Turn based system, story, style, adventure.

 

[pants]

As is Asura's Wrath.

And like all of the Nekketsu games ._.

 

[Sentenza]

The amount of people equating jRPG to japanese developed games is astoundingly and so truly inaccurate (imo ofc). The style originated from japanese developers but in no way constrains so that a jRPG is developed there.

As a bad example, consider Cthulhu saves the world / Breath of Death VII by Zeboyd Games. Parodies they may be, jrpg in style, japanese they are not.

It is a genre exhibitting a collection of tropes that define it, not a tag denoting the country a game was developed in, evidenced by the fact that we don't have jFPS etc. since there is no japanese collection of tropes that apply to this genre to make it distinctly different.

Even more baffling for me is how people like to stress that there are differences into the subgenre (which apparently would make it not a genre/subgenre). Isn't that true for any genre?
What we usually call "WRPGs" are probably an even more broad and diversified "genre" and yet I don't see as many people up to arm to stress they aren't a genre.

 

[KojiKnight]

Then it is no surprise that you are defining JRPG and WRPG in such a silly manner.

So you're saying that because there is a single exception to an otherwise very well defined rule, we should then throw it out entirely?

As for your demon's souls example, I find it EQUALLY silly that you would basically classify it a jrpg for essentially it being a Japanese made game. Again, the J and W don't denote origins, but rather styles. Correctly or not, we as a collective (gamers) have stigmatized certain games as being "j" or "w". As mentioned earlier, if a Japanese company made the next Elder Scrolls game in the same style as Oblivion, would it be any less of a WRPG? Most people would think not.

 

[Y2Kev]

I classify the way I do to be inclusive, not exclusive. I see tremendous variety and diversity in the genre and I do believe very strongly in divergent evolution.

So you're saying that because there is a single exception to an otherwise very well defined rule, we should then throw it out entirely?

As for your demon's souls example, I find it EQUALLY silly that you would basically classify it a jrpg for essentially it being a Japanese made game. Again, the J and W don't denote origins, but rather styles. Correctly or not, we as a collective (gamers) have stigmatized certain games as being "j" or "w". As mentioned earlier, if a Japanese company made the next Elder Scrolls game in the same style as Oblivion, would it be any less of a WRPG? Most people would think not.

I mean, I hate to say, "In your opinion," but that's how you do it. "We" obviously don't do anything (that is, look at this thread) monolithically.

 

[Rpgmonkey]

My personal opinion currently is that RPGs, Western and Japanese, are often too nuanced for a label like "Western" or "Japanese/Eastern" to be a good, catch-all descriptor of the gameplay mechanics, art, or themes that will always be present in any individual game under that label, especially when you consider RPGs created worldwide throughout the entire history of the genre's time in videogames and aren't just picking out modern examples.

Generally any JRPG or WRPG (or to get more broad from there, simply calling them "RPGs") can be broken down into more informative labels like Action-RPG, Turn-based RPG, Strategy RPG, etc. And these labels do more to describe the game's mechanics than using the ethnicity/nationality of who made the game or where it was made, and from there trying to assume which themes or game mechanics are present. I don't think "RPG", "WRPG", and "JRPG" are wrong labels and should be completely removed, but they can be too broad relative to how people use them at times.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

First we need to define the term RPG. An RPG is a game where the effectiveness, primarily with regards to combat but sometimes also with regards to other in-game actions, of the playable characters is determined by stats that are visible, more or less transparent and manipulable by the player. The manipulation of these stats should be a rather important part of gameplay. Note that changing equipment that would change the effective stats of your characters would count as manipulating your stats as well.

Now that that is taken care of you can classify RPGs based on how the battles work.

RPGs that put a big focus on direct control of you characters, where timing of blocking, dodging and attacking is important for the players success are action RPGs. Examples include Demon's Souls and Kingdom Hearts.

RPGs where you control a large number of characters, where positioning of your characters in relation to each other, the opponent and the surrounding environment is critical for success, are tactics RPGs. Note that "strategy RPG is a misnomer. There is a difference, folks. Examples include Final Fantasy Tactics and Valkyria Chronicles

RPGs where you decide what your characters are doing mainly by choosing between different commands on a list, and which are not action RPGs or tactical RPGs (this qualifier is needed or Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy Tactics would count as well) are command RPGs. Examples include mainline Final Fantasy games and Dragon Quest games.

RPGs where you damage enemies by lining up your crosshairs to shoot them are shooter RPGs. Examples include Borderlands and Final Fantasy VII: Dirge of Cerberus.

Finally, you can classify RPGs based on the country of origin. An RPG made in Japan is a Japanese RPG (JRPG). An RPG made in Korea is a Korean RPG An RPG made in Sweden is a Swedish RPG. And an RPG made in Poland is a Polish RPG. For RPGs not made in Asia, the collective term Western RPG (WRPG) can be used.

Some people want to think that JRPG should be a genre on its own, where even a game made in USA would be "Japanese" if it adopted enough traits considered typical (by them) of Japanese RPGs. But that just sounds stupid to me, and is not how anything which is not an RPG is classified by nationality. A sparkling wine made in Russia is a Russian sparkling wine and not French just because it is similar to Champagne which is made in France. When a Japanese horror movie gets a Hollywood remake, the Hollywood movie is an American horror movie. Not a Japanese horror movie.

There may be some traits that are typical for RPGs made in Japan, but that doesn't mean that an RPG made in Japan which doesn't contain most of them isn't Japanese. Just like a movie made in Hollywood is American, regardless of whether it's heavily influenced by some other country. Attempts to arbitrarily denote some games as JRPGs and some as not, based on certain traits are futile as it's very difficult to find a precise enough definition which doesn't have too many exceptions and which everyone could agree on. Dividing based on country of origin is much easier and leads to far fewer borderline cases.

To summarize: Demon's Souls is a Japanese action RPG. Cthulhu Saves the World is a Western command RPG. dealwithit.gif

 

[TheMink]

Amneisia is a requirement.

 

[Sorian]

If you can unlock swimsuits by doing a long drawn out side quest........it's probably a jrpg

If getting your group into the best possible gear is harder than the last boss..........it's probably a jrpg

If there is a character that makes you feel embarassed every time they come on screen but you would still totally bang them...........it's probably a jrpg

If there is a hot springs scene.........it's probably a jrpg

If I care enough to look up some type of hentai or porn for it........it's probably a jrpg

If there is a save point located in a dungeon........you're probably about to fight a boss.......and it's probably a jrpg.

 

[Syril]

I just call them RPGs. I used to make a distinction between console RPGs like Chrono Trigger and Shining Force and computer RPGs like The Bard's Tale and Baldur's Gate, but since those styles have become less particular to one platform or the other over the years, I've stopped using those terms. I think the fact that there's so much debate on what "JRPG" entails means that it's not a good label. Not everything has to fit neatly into categories.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

What is a "RPG"

I mean, Ninja Gaiden 3 has dungeon like areas, with weapons and gear you can upgrade with the XP you gain from fights with nonsensical monsters. Is that a RPG?

 

[MoogPaul]

Party of 3+ on an epic adventure with lots of character development and full of anime cliches!


Love jrpgs for that reason. See Tales of <3

Party of 3? So Dragon Quest isn't a JRPG? Okay.

 

[MuddyDonut]

What is a "RPG"

I mean, Ninja Gaiden 3 has dungeon like areas, with weapons and gear you can upgrade with the XP you gain from fights with nonsensical monsters. Is that a RPG?

No. Ninja Gaiden 3 is garbage, not a RPG.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

No. Ninja Gaiden 3 is garbage, not a RPG.

Y2Kev has established that those are not mutually exclusive. See: Tales of series

 

[Karsticles]

I don't see this as a problem. We have plenty of sub-descriptors that more readily identify what each game is.

Consider this hierarchy I just created:

These games are all JRPGs, but are all clearly in different subgenres.

Where is the Atelier series? What about Chrono Trigger and Grandia?

Edit: Oh, and TWEWY.

 

[Sorian]

Y2Kev has established that those are not mutually exclusive. See: Tales of series

We have a fight on our hands I think.

 

[MuddyDonut]

Y2Kev has established that those are not mutually exclusive. See: Tales of series

So Ninja Gaiden 3 is Kingdom Hearts tier? I wouldn't disagree.

 

[Paracelsus]

Star Ocean in the same group as modern FF and DS is an eyesore, and not because of SO poor quality but because it's the only true Jrpg of the three.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I just consider jRPG as RPGs made by Japanese developers. It's easy that way.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

Agreed. Plus labeling a game as "the Japanese made it!" doesn't bother people?

Yes because that automatically means it's racist or some stupid shit. #FauxOutrageGAF

My car is German, those fucking Nazis.

 

[SkyOdin]

So you're saying that because there is a single exception to an otherwise very well defined rule, we should then throw it out entirely?

As for your demon's souls example, I find it EQUALLY silly that you would basically classify it a jrpg for essentially it being a Japanese made game. Again, the J and W don't denote origins, but rather styles. Correctly or not, we as a collective (gamers) have stigmatized certain games as being "j" or "w". As mentioned earlier, if a Japanese company made the next Elder Scrolls game in the same style as Oblivion, would it be any less of a WRPG? Most people would think not.

But it isn't a single exception. Are first-person dungeon crawlers JRPGs or WRPGs? They originated in the west with games like Wizardry, but then the Wizardry series became wildly popular in Japan, to the point where it is now an entirely Japanese franchise that has spawned many spiritual successors and clones like the Etrian Odyssey franchise. Even the Phantasy Star and Shin Megami Tensei series have their origins in the genre. Meanwhile first person dungeon crawlers are still being made in the west.

Following up on that thought, are the Shin Megami Tensei games JRPGs, or WRPGs (I mean the core games, not the Persona games)? They are a completely different style of game with completely different tropes and trappings than Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest games, which would put them outside your definition of JRPG.

For that matter, some of the old Ultima games had more in common with the original Dragon Quest (which was strongly inspired by them) than modern WRPGs. Does that make Ultima IV a JRPG? Likewise, does that make Dragon Quest 1 a WRPG, since it is more similar to Ultima than many modern story-focused RPGs?

Trying to divide RPGs into JRPGs and WRPGs seems completely useless. Not only do they pave over the variety of RPGs produced, but there is far too much overlap and common influence.

To be honest, I find the use of JRPG and WRPG as style or genre terms to be bankrupt of detailed analysis. They are useless terms, which give no meaningful insight into the gameplay, influences, or lineage of a game.

 

[t26]

I don't see this as a problem. We have plenty of sub-descriptors that more readily identify what each game is.

Consider this hierarchy I just created:

These games are all JRPGs, but are all clearly in different subgenres.

Somehow you didn't put Hyperdimension Neptunia or every Idea Factory game in garbage RPG...

Also Star Ocean is on the garbage list after The Last Hope

 

[Littlegator]

jRPG and wRPG don't specify the developer but the style. Both kinds started around the same time but in different regions, so the naming convention started.

jRPGs tend to have parties.
jRPGs tend to be turn based.
jRPGs tend to have loads of plot and exposition.
jRPGs tend to have a linear dungeon structure and story.

wRPGs tend to have a single player character.
wRPGs tend to be real-time.
wRPGs tend to be open world.
wRPGs tend to have you tell your own story through game mechanics.

If you play a lot of RPGs, you'll realize that very few games blur the lines, and if they do, you'll probably just call them by their subgenre. I.e. Fire Emblem is a sRPG, not a jRPG.

 

[Village]

Hi, if you like it, it's probably in the garbage RPG category. sorry

rules are rules

Obssive fan nerds.

Having the mass appeal of having Disney and square enix in one games appeals more to nerds, my friend. Don't be hatin they can sell on name alone, and its good, and i like the characters, and i can slap sephiroth in his dumb the face.

Dont be hatin.

 

[Sqorgar]

I don't see this as a problem. We have plenty of sub-descriptors that more readily identify what each game is.

Consider this hierarchy I just created:

These games are all JRPGs, but are all clearly in different subgenres.

But that classification is so simplistic as to be completely worthless! Is Link's Awakening a JRPG? Is Jagged Alliance an SRPG? What about Advance Wars? If Advance Wars ISN'T a strategy RPG, then Valkyria Chronicles must also not be one. Roguelikes are essentially Action RPGs that are turn-based (Vagrant Story more so than most). Arc the Lad 2 is like Dragon Quest, but with tactical battles. The first Arc the Lad is just a tactics game with less RPGness than Fire Emblem Awakening. Dokapon Kingdom is a boardgame RPG. Where does that fit? Is the Paper Mario on the 3DS an RPG, much less a JRPG? And what the hell is Final Fantasy XII or Xenoblade, being neither turn based, action based, or really strategy based?

These are broad strokes that really only safely cover a few, very specific game series. It breaks down at even a cursory examination of anything outside of the most commonly popular series.

And Star Ocean has as much in common with Demon's Souls as Breaking Bad has with My Little Pony.

 

[Zaventem]

An RPG made in Japan.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

But that classification is so simplistic as to be completely worthless! Is Link's Awakening a JRPG? Is Jagged Alliance an SRPG? What about Advance Wars? If Advance Wars ISN'T a strategy RPG, then Valkyria Chronicles must also not be one. Roguelikes are essentially Action RPGs that are turn-based (Vagrant Story more so than most). Arc the Lad 2 is like Dragon Quest, but with tactical battles. The first Arc the Lad is just a tactics game with less RPGness than Fire Emblem Awakening. Dokapon Kingdom is a boardgame RPG. Where does that fit? Is the Paper Mario on the 3DS an RPG, much less a JRPG? And what the hell is Final Fantasy XII or Xenoblade, being neither turn based, action based, or really strategy based?

These are broad strokes that really only safely cover a few, very specific game series. It breaks down at even a cursory examination of anything outside of the most commonly popular series.

And Star Ocean has as much in common with Demon's Souls as Breaking Bad has with My Little Pony.

That's why to me JRPG simply means "It's from a Japanese developer" therefore it's likely to have staples of Japanese gaming culture within it, but not necessarily. There's too much variation and divergence in RPGs for there to be a "Japanese" or "Western" styled RPG anymore, if you actually, seriously, look at the entire library of games.

I don't even bother using WRPG and JRPG anymore, I just call them all RPGs.

 

[SkyOdin]

jRPG and wRPG don't specify the developer but the style. Both kinds started around the same time but in different regions, so the naming convention started.

jRPGs tend to have parties.
jRPGs tend to be turn based.
jRPGs tend to have loads of plot and exposition.
jRPGs tend to have a linear dungeon structure and story.

wRPGs tend to have a single player character.
wRPGs tend to be real-time.
wRPGs tend to be open world.
wRPGs tend to have you tell your own story through game mechanics.

If you play a lot of RPGs, you'll realize that very few games blur the lines.

Most Bioware RPGs would fall more under JRPG by your definition, and that covers some of the most popular and prolific western-made RPGs from this last generation. Basically, you are are only counting Elder Scrolls and Fallout games as WRPGs under your definition. You also might be counting The Legend of Zelda as a WRPG (if you think it counts as an RPG).

Also, if you think very few games blur the lines, then you haven't played a wide enough variety of RPGs.

 

[MuddyDonut]

Yes because that automatically means it's racist or some stupid shit. #FauxOutrageGAF

My car is German, those fucking Nazis.

Lmao stahp it

 

[HolyBaikal]

I do agree that certainly one major difference in a lot of RPGs coming out of Japan and ones coming out of the west is the party.

I don't know why, but a good portion of RPGs out of the West don't have any semblance of a party whatsoever. Not that this is a huge gameplay difference, but something certainly worthy of note.

 

[demidar]

First we need to define the term RPG. An RPG is a game where the effectiveness, primarily with regards to combat but sometimes also with regards to other in-game actions, of the playable characters is determined by stats that are visible, more or less transparent and manipulable by the player. The manipulation of these stats should be a rather important part of gameplay. Note that changing equipment that would change the effective stats of your characters would count as manipulating your stats as well.

Now that that is taken care of you can classify RPGs based on how the battles work.

RPGs that put a big focus on direct control of you characters, where timing of blocking, dodging and attacking is important for the players success are action RPGs. Examples include Demon's Souls and Kingdom Hearts.

RPGs where you control a large number of characters, where positioning of your characters in relation to each other, the opponent and the surrounding environment is critical for success, are tactics RPGs. Note that "strategy RPG is a misnomer. There is a difference, folks. Examples include Final Fantasy Tactics and Valkyria Chronicles

RPGs where you decide what your characters are doing mainly by choosing between different commands on a list, and which are not action RPGs or tactical RPGs (this qualifier is needed or Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy Tactics would count as well) are command RPGs. Examples include mainline Final Fantasy games and Dragon Quest games.

RPGs where you damage enemies by lining up your crosshairs to shoot them are shooter RPGs. Examples include Borderlands and Final Fantasy VII: Dirge of Cerberus.

Finally, you can classify RPGs based on the country of origin. An RPG made in Japan is a Japanese RPG (JRPG). An RPG made in Korea is a Korean RPG An RPG made in Sweden is a Swedish RPG. And an RPG made in Poland is a Polish RPG. For RPGs not made in Asia, the collective term Western RPG (WRPG) can be used.

Some people want to think that JRPG should be a genre on its own, where even a game made in USA would be "Japanese" if it adopted enough traits considered typical (by them) of Japanese RPGs. But that just sounds stupid to me, and is not how anything which is not an RPG is classified by nationality. A sparkling wine made in Russia is a Russian sparkling wine and not French just because it is similar to Champagne which is made in France. When a Japanese horror movie gets a Hollywood remake, the Hollywood movie is an American horror movie. Not a Japanese horror movie.

There may be some traits that are typical for RPGs made in Japan, but that doesn't mean that an RPG made in Japan which doesn't contain most of them isn't Japanese. Just like a movie made in Hollywood is American, regardless of whether it's heavily influenced by some other country. Attempts to arbitrarily denote some games as JRPGs and some as not, based on certain traits are futile as it's very difficult to find a precise enough definition which doesn't have too many exceptions and which everyone could agree on. Dividing based on country of origin is much easier and leads to far fewer borderline cases.

To summarize: Demon's Souls is a Japanese action RPG. Cthulhu Saves the World is a Western command RPG. dealwithit.gif

While I completely agree with your definitions of RPG (I had come to the same conclusion myself), I completely disagree with basing JRPGs and WRPGs on region of development since as titles they are meaningless and even deceptive. One cannot, for example, confuse FPS and TPS at all because the principle definition is inherently meaningful i.e. the default perspective the player sees the world through. If I said "You like WRPGs? Why not go play Cthulu Save the World or Anachronox?" the other person would be disappointed because my recommendation is completely different to their expectations. Rather WRPGs and JRPGs are called that because of the different styles, tropes and design choices each region have built up within their own development bubble. Of course this makes edge cases more muddy such as Dark Souls as they don't take a large majority of design from a specific region and is something different altogether. Because D* Souls has an extremely large emphasis on player skill, yet still has statistics that determine or gate a character's role, those games can be considered ARPGs.

 

[Littlegator]

Most Bioware RPGs would fall more under JRPG by your definition, and that covers some of the most popular and prolific western-made RPGs from this last generation. Basically, you are are only counting Elder Scrolls and Fallout games as WRPGs under your definition.

Also, if you think very few games blur the lines, then you haven't played a wide enough variety of RPGs.

A lot of games blur some lines, but very few blur all of them.

Another huge factor I didn't mention is how the story is told. There is a massive difference between the convoluted stories in jRPGs and the convoluted stories in wRPGs.

Besides, Bioware RPGs are almost always specified with their subgenre. Mass Effects are aRPGs or shooter RPGs, Dragon Age is an aRPG, KOTOR is an aRPG, etc. They are defined by their gameplay far more than anything else.