womfalcs3
Banned
It's not just in goods. IP protections can generate billions in fees and royalties for American firms. Even if it's 50 billion dollars a year addition to US GDP. His presidency would be worthwhile.
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What do you think about people saying Trump is looking to become a dictator?
- Thread starter TheLaughingStock
- Start date
It's not just in goods. IP protections can generate billions in fees and royalties for American firms. Even if it's 50 billion dollars a year addition to US GDP. His presidency would be worthwhile.
Dontero
Banned
Just crazy people being crazy.
IT would be much more probable for Bush to became dictator than Trump. Trump as far as i can see don't have incentive to became one and frankly speaking it wouldn't make sense to begin with because he is already rich as fuck and run as president because he was probably bored being rich.
Also i seriously doubt someone intelligence if they say Trump is dumb. While his actions may run opposite to some people views or his behavior none of those things indicate that he is stupid.
So far looking from outside perspective i'd say he is pretty smart and know better US and politics in US than people want credit him for. Any normal politician would die instantly under barrage of current anti-trump media and "somehow" he seems fine and his popularity isn't tanking nor people stop supporting him. He perfectly knows how to turn media against themselves and his political enemies. This has been said many times already but anyone who deal with sales can easily point out how Trump uses practical sales strategies in politics to achieve his goals anyone who can do that reasonably well is VERY smart and so far from what i see his strategies do work.
IT would be much more probable for Bush to became dictator than Trump. Trump as far as i can see don't have incentive to became one and frankly speaking it wouldn't make sense to begin with because he is already rich as fuck and run as president because he was probably bored being rich.
Also i seriously doubt someone intelligence if they say Trump is dumb. While his actions may run opposite to some people views or his behavior none of those things indicate that he is stupid.
So far looking from outside perspective i'd say he is pretty smart and know better US and politics in US than people want credit him for. Any normal politician would die instantly under barrage of current anti-trump media and "somehow" he seems fine and his popularity isn't tanking nor people stop supporting him. He perfectly knows how to turn media against themselves and his political enemies. This has been said many times already but anyone who deal with sales can easily point out how Trump uses practical sales strategies in politics to achieve his goals anyone who can do that reasonably well is VERY smart and so far from what i see his strategies do work.
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KarneeKarnay
Member
Lets start again then. If I have the ability to harm your income and then I say it would be in your best interest to be nicer to me, what am I doing?
Options:
a) I am just stating that it might be in your best interest to be nicer to me?
b) Am I threatening you by using my position of power over you income?
Before we go any further we need to establish whether you view what Trump wrote as a threat. The tweet in question being this:
If you need more evidence here's the link where...
EDIT: For the second time. I don't think Trump is risk to Democracy currently. All I'm doing is providing context and reasoning as to why people might fear it.
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BANGS
Banned
Business.
KarneeKarnay
Member
How?
BANGS
Banned
Trump is providing them a service by inviting them into his home, and in return he gets press. If he's not happy with his press, he doesn't have to invite them any more. That simple.
No different than if you were at a grocery store as a customer. If the cashier was being a cunt to you, you could easily threaten their income by not shopping there any more. It's simple business. It's not censorship or anything of the sort.
KarneeKarnay
Member
So being the President is a business? In that case what's your argument against Trump passing an executive order for every bar to buy Trump Vodka?
manfestival
Member
Your post is going to be overlooked by most people since it doesnt speak to them in anyway. I have actually said the same thing to other people only to be shunned by their blind hatred. Another example of a person doing this is Rick Scott the Florida Governor. He got into office despite similar opposition(people complaining about his businessman background, but he doesnt have the repulsive tendencies that trump has) and has been very successful. Another person of someone being a complete moron but in a position of importance is that racist ICE lawyer guy. You dont own your own law firm by being a dumb person. Clearly he is his worst enemy and doesnt have the money or title to hold himself up like trump but that gets the point through.
BANGS
Banned
I'm not following that logic thread. Yes, the President, just like every other person in america, does business with people and companies. I'm not sure how you can compare "Trump refusing to do business with companies that treat him poorly" with "Trump forcing companies to do business with him no matter what". That's something only a defeated tool who's backed into a corner would smash out of his keyboard in a desperate attempt to save face....
KarneeKarnay
Member
Love the ad hominem.
Apparently by taking the public office as President Trump, the Government has become a business. If Trumps allowed to run the White House like a business why isn't he allowed to run the country like one?
What's the difference between public office and a private one?
KarneeKarnay
Member
It's ok if you don't know. That's the wonderful thing about the internet, it's like this big library that you can navigate. If you don't know something you can take a look and find what you need. I'll help.
Government Office exists to serve the people.
Private Office is to serve the owners/shareholders.
No. Government's aren't businesses, but lets assume they are. If Trump has the right to do whatever he wants to the Press Pass, a service he offers, why can't he do whatever he wants to alcohol regulations enforced by the government, another service, to force every bar to buy Trump Vodka?
I just point them to the many many many resources on dictatorship and their psychological traits.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-psychopath-inside/201111/the-mind-dictator
https://people.howstuffworks.com/dictator2.htm
"Most dictators have several characteristics in common. They usually rule autocracies, governments with a single self-appointed leader and no governing body to check his power. Often, dictators have totalitarian regimes, keeping their power through control of the mass media. Totalitarian dictators also use secret police and spy on the citizens of their state as well as restrict or completely remove their personal freedoms.
Many of these dictators foster cults of personality, a form of hero worship in which the masses are fed propaganda declaring their leader to be flawless (and in some cases, divine or divinely appointed)."
https://www.anxiety.org/psychology-of-dictators-power-fear-anxiety
"They see themselves as "very special" people, deserving of admiration and, consequently, have difficulty empathizing with the feelings and needs of others … Not only do dictators commonly show a "pervasive pattern of grandiosity," they also tend to behave with a vindictiveness often observed in narcissistic personality disorder. "
I mean if you wanted serious answer there's tons of information out there on the traits of a dictator.
"
Narcissism Is A Consistent Trait
With regard to dictators, one particular trait that consistently stands out as relevant is narcissism. Narcissistic individuals have a "greatly exaggerated sense of their own importance" and are "preoccupied with their own achievements and abilities13." They see themselves as "very special" people, deserving of admiration and, consequently, have difficulty empathizing with the feelings and needs of others.
When narcissism becomes extreme to the point that it:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-psychopath-inside/201111/the-mind-dictator
https://people.howstuffworks.com/dictator2.htm
"Most dictators have several characteristics in common. They usually rule autocracies, governments with a single self-appointed leader and no governing body to check his power. Often, dictators have totalitarian regimes, keeping their power through control of the mass media. Totalitarian dictators also use secret police and spy on the citizens of their state as well as restrict or completely remove their personal freedoms.
Many of these dictators foster cults of personality, a form of hero worship in which the masses are fed propaganda declaring their leader to be flawless (and in some cases, divine or divinely appointed)."
https://www.anxiety.org/psychology-of-dictators-power-fear-anxiety
"They see themselves as "very special" people, deserving of admiration and, consequently, have difficulty empathizing with the feelings and needs of others … Not only do dictators commonly show a "pervasive pattern of grandiosity," they also tend to behave with a vindictiveness often observed in narcissistic personality disorder. "
I mean if you wanted serious answer there's tons of information out there on the traits of a dictator.
"
Narcissism Is A Consistent Trait
With regard to dictators, one particular trait that consistently stands out as relevant is narcissism. Narcissistic individuals have a "greatly exaggerated sense of their own importance" and are "preoccupied with their own achievements and abilities13." They see themselves as "very special" people, deserving of admiration and, consequently, have difficulty empathizing with the feelings and needs of others.
When narcissism becomes extreme to the point that it:
- interferes with daily life
- appears to be unusual as compared to others within a society, or
- permeates multiple areas of an individual's life …
- "pervasive pattern of grandiosity"
- "need for admiration" and
- "lack of empathy14."
TheLaughingStock
Member
IP protections distort prices and harms the economy overall by increasing costs more than otherwise. IP protection is one of the worst forms of protectionism that a country can deploy because it's a trade barrier on ideas/knowledge. It's much more costly than any tariff that's been proposed thus far.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
It’s crazy talk by opponents mostly.
Can’t see any president successfully becoming a dictator in the USA.
People that take every bit of the stuff flowing from Trump’s mouth literally will come to all alerts of conclusions. Better to read him based on the context and the broader idea he is pushing rather than the soundbyte.
Can’t see any president successfully becoming a dictator in the USA.
People that take every bit of the stuff flowing from Trump’s mouth literally will come to all alerts of conclusions. Better to read him based on the context and the broader idea he is pushing rather than the soundbyte.
Cybrwzrd
Banned
To be honest, don't like Trump, but I feel that the press is out to get him no matter what, and that most of the news orgs reporting on him have less integrity than the Weekly World News does in factual reporting. Threatening to take away the paparazzi's white house press pass isn't the same thing as government takeover of newsrooms.
I'm also going to leave this here - the right was every bit as hysterical as the left about Trump when it came to Obama. And things generally turned out OK, except for the failed republican abortion's risen fetid zombie fetus that is called ACA.
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Taking away press credentials, isn't censoring the press. Its taking away the press access to him and white house staff through official channels. They still can say what ever they want, and can still get that access through means outside the official lines of communications.
You don't jump from free and open press to dictator state overnight. It's just step similar to the gun-rights argument.
the argument was that he has already threatened to censor the press. not that he was taking steps to doing so.
Obama had his issues but the right wing media had to harp on stupid shit to even have a talking point most weeks. I still remember them being insulted by his tan suit or that he didn't salute the troops with the utmost respect each time he got off Air Force 1. That or they just ran with conspiracy theory nonsense like the birther crap.
One thing was funny is how often we'd see news clips of Fox News saying Obama was a dictator and had balled up the constitution. No ever explained how he was a dictator but it was such a talking point with American conservatives. Honestly your conservatives sometimes make Tories look like socialists.
Trump wants to run the country like a dictator but the whole laws, and checks and balances kinda prevent him from doing anything dictatory so I don't see how anyone can say that he is in effect a dictator. Anything he is able to get away with is less reflective on him and way more reflective on your government itself and how slow it is to react to actions your President makes. So basically I feel the use of that word is just dumb.
Trump wants to run the country like a dictator but the whole laws, and checks and balances kinda prevent him from doing anything dictatory so I don't see how anyone can say that he is in effect a dictator. Anything he is able to get away with is less reflective on him and way more reflective on your government itself and how slow it is to react to actions your President makes. So basically I feel the use of that word is just dumb.
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I guess I’m not understanding the issue, threatening to take away credentials or limit access to only his “approved” listing is different from state media? Or discussions about jailing journalists..
womfalcs3
Banned
You're right. It would raise the costs of production on Chinese firms, thus raise prices in the US and elsewhere around the world. BUT... is that such a bad thing? You would lower demand for said products, but the effect on US GDP is a net positive. You have lower sales from retailers who are selling imported goods, so the negative impact is minimal, but you have all that money flowing into the US economy in the form of royalties/licensing.
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Imagine if there was a competent President with the cult following that Trump has. Republicans have shown they don't care what their leaders do as long as their team is winning so it's a scary thought.
Vicetrailia
Member
It looks like Trump is planning to go after auto tariffs.
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tkscz
Member
and here lies my issue with the entire thing, people not realizing the president himself has little power, but is given way more attention than congress, the ones with the most power.
People are so scared of Trump that it distracts them from the fact that he just talks big, but most of the decisions are coming from Congress, he's just agreeing with them.
But that's not true and more importantly Trump is testing the limits of presidential powers. There's a lot of things that he says, that if acted on would trigger a constitutional crisis. Even the fact that they are being discussed brings up the issue of upholding the constitution.
TheLaughingStock
Member
Yes!
It's a very bad thing when a government grants individuals or corporations monopoly power without a good reason. If it doesn't lead to an acceleration in productivity or innovation, then that means you distorted prices without anything to show for it. The ultimate goal isn't Joe or Disney seeing more money in the form of royalties or licensing. So what. I hope you don't believe that in and of itself does anything for you, your family, or the economy as a whole. That it's a net positive they're profiting at your expense.
Look my friend. IP protection is one of worst forms of protectionism because of the litigation costs, transaction costs, deadweight loss, enforcement costs, and so on associated with it. Did I mention it was protectionism? Why do you believe the negative impact is minimal? You think it's as trivial as a 10% tariff on aluminum or a 20% tariff on steel?
Think about it. This kind of protectionism could take something that costs $200 in a competitive market mark it up to $200000. And often this isn't any old thing. It could be essential software, drugs, ideas, etc. Imagine multiplying Pres. Trump's proposed tariffs by 100000 or more. That's what you're dealing with when you talk about patents, copyright, etc. Costs the economy as a whole billions of $s easy.
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tkscz
Member
the president's power extends as far as congress lets it. The house and senate could stop a lot of what Trump is doing, if they felt the need to, this includes ignoring vetos and blocking exectutive orders. A Present does have more power in global affairs, but i'm talking domestically only for the current conversation. Both Congress and the Supreme Court can block the President from being a dictator, including removing or adding laws that go directly against the constitution (which they have done a few times already). We currently have a majority republican congress that mostly agrees with Trump and allows his childish antics. However, when it comes to his international affairs, there isn't much they can do about it as it's out of their juristriction at that point.
Ok, I absolutely agree that our constitution prevents domestic dictatorship. I'm primarily thinking in global interactions and of course the executive branches power over the DoJ.
Wait, so I'm confused. How do you encourage R&D then? If you are investing millions/billions into R&D and someone else can produce the same product it seems like you would have to artificially fund and float private company R&D costs to encourage innovation and by extension GDP growth.
TheLaughingStock
Member
IMO, you would encourage it via other public mechanisms like tax cuts, tax credits, government contracts, and grants.
Also, remember that you don't ever want to mess with the bedrocks of a market system like prices and competition without coming away with a pay off that makes it worthwhile. I mean let's not forget that the US gov't (as an example) has an army of bureaucrats tasked with stopping monopolies and stamping out price gouging. Yet, they're promoting protectionist policies that cause monopolies and allowing people to make their profits in courtrooms rather than the marketplace. They're encouraging large gaps between the market price and marginal cost. Dumb.
Simply put, granting monopolies is one of the dumbest and most costly ways to get a market to support work that's worthwhile but not profitable. And like I said in terms of costs and the deadweight loss, think about what people would say if Trump slapped a 10000% tariff on steel or a 20000% tariff on aluminum. If people are howling now because they can't stand Pres. Trump, then they'd have a complete meltdown.
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You’re minimizing what IP protection does to encourage consumer confidence.
IP protection isn’t just about protecting the businesses. It’s what ensures that when you go buy a Ford that you are actually buying a Ford and not a “Chevy Mustang” or a “Ford Camaro” or some other knock off. It’s literally that thing the ensures that don’t have a Sony “Switch” or a Mitsubishi Playstation 4. It’s about consumer confidence. Do you have any idea how much of an economic collapse the US would experience??? Just think about going to the movies to see a new Disney film and there’s too movies showing Disney’s Frozen about and Ice Queen and Gisneys Frozen about an Ice Queen. Or Harvels Avengers Infinite War.
It’s not just about the companies is about consumer confidence. I’d be far less likely to purchase a new game console if their was a chance that the thing I was spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on was a knock off.
Our economy is consumer driven which means its dependent on consumer confidence and our ability to spend money on luxuries without thinking too much about it. If you want to destroy the foundation of nations economy by eroding consumer confidence you would tank GDP almost overnight.
This isn’t even about Trump it’s just a bad idea, IP and tariffs are two different issues and not even comparable for what their intention is and what they do.
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Acerac
Banned
I hate when people say Trump attacks the press. It's such fake news, you know?
lolololol
Decontamination Silo
Banned
I just watch in awe as the same people say he's going to seize all the power and become dictator, but we should give him all of our guns. Then we should do away with all the borders in order to help minorities, but once you take down the borders, you soon realize that white's are a global minority. It's not even close actually.
The cognitive dissonance in that group is amazing. I use to count myself a liberal, but nowadays I have to find a different word for my political stance because it sure as fuck isn't that.
The cognitive dissonance in that group is amazing. I use to count myself a liberal, but nowadays I have to find a different word for my political stance because it sure as fuck isn't that.
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Not even sure what that has to do with Trump dictatorship unless he’s the president of white people only.
Anyway the CIA has break down of races rather than the standard ethnic groups. And while the largest single ethnic group is Han Chinese, the white race is actually the most populous due to imperialism and colonization. Someone actually broke down the numbers.
http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/9181-World-population-by-race
World
Total6,785,600,000
2,297,000,00033.85%Caucasoids
2,125,000,00031.32%Mongoloids
810,100,00011.94%Negroids
806,000,00011.88%Australoid-Caucasoid intermediates
196,000,0002.89%Negroid-Caucasoid intermediates
180,000,0002.65%Amerindian-Caucasoid intermediates
106,000,0001.56%Mongoloid-Caucasoid intermediates
75,000,0001.11%Asiatic Triracials
55,000,0000.81%Amerindians
53,500,0000.79%Australoid-Mongoloid intermediates
50,000,0000.74%Triracials
15,000,0000.22%Negroid-Mongoloid intermediates
12,500,0000.18%Australoids
3,500,0000.05%Negroid-Amerindian intermediates
1,000,0000.01%Khoisan and Pygmy
But your right about one thing, the cognitive dissonance is still staggering among certain groups of people. Especially the insistence of attempting to claim victim or minority status.
you do know that caucasoid isn't white right?
Please explain:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race
“The Caucasian race (also Caucasoid[1] or Europid)[2] is a grouping of human beings historically regarded as a biological taxon, which, depending on which of the historical race classifications used, have usually included some or all of the ancient and modern populations of Europe, the Caucasus, Asia Minor, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, Western Asia, Central Asia and South Asia.[3]”
ickythingz
Banned
I think we have seen enough of the insane left to know that common sense is not part of their skills.
Might want to go a little farther down in the wiki.
So you think arabs and ancitent egyptians are considered white?
You do understand what a SUB race is correct? Meaning it falls under a larger racial category, not a seperate one..........
But we will take read further down the wiki like you suggested. I will even use your own section.
“
48]
SubracesEdit
The postulated subraces vary depending on the author, including but not limited to Mediterranean, Atlantid, Nordic, East Baltic, Alpine, Dinaric, Turanid, Armenoid, Iranid, Arabid, and Hamitic.[49]
H. G. Wells argued that across Europe, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, West Asia, Central Asia and South Asia, a Caucasian physical stock existed. He divided this racial element into two main groups: a shorter and darker Mediterranean or Iberian race and a taller and lighter Nordic race. Wells asserted that Semitic and Hamitic populations were mainly of Mediterranean type, and Aryan populations were originally of Nordic type. He regarded the Basques as descendants of early Mediterranean peoples, who inhabited western Europe before the arrival of Aryan Celts from the direction of central Europe.[50]”
I’m not even arguing any of this to be fact because race and genetics are far nuanced that this, but what I am asserting is that there is no factually basis to the claim that whites people (given the traditional useage of the word) are a minority. When people’s of the world are broken down into these 3 categories Caucasians are the most populous group. The point was more about the irony of the talk of cognitive dissonance while also stating how “whites beings a global minority and it not being close” was used without any factual basis at all other than a talking point on yahoo comments.
Again for some reason someone started the myth that whites people as a race are a global minority and that just not supported by any facts we have anywhere other than there being a lot of people in China supposedly being evidence that the race type of “Mongoliod” or “Negroid” far out number those of “Caucasians”.
Basically it amounts to, as I said before, a random yahoo comment rather than a fact. This is of course ignoring but still wondering what race has to do with anything about this topic and why it was introduced in the first place.
So, are Arabs and Iranians white? Your evidence to prove the comment wrong was talking about Caucasoid population. Using the data you provided they need to be to prove the counter point you were presenting.
According to this they are and I’d argue there would likely be genetic evidence to support this, but I don’t subscribe to these categorization anyway. Even our US census categorized middle easterners as white for decades. So to answer your question yes.
Guess I need to tell my family to stop posting those "we come from kings and queens" images of ancient egyptians on their facebook huh.
Huh? You know Egypt was ruled by several different ethnic and racial groups over its thousands of years of existence? I mean I haven’t the foggiest on your families ethnicity but having MIddle easterners classified as white would have no bearing on their lineage or the ethic groups in ancient Egypt. Just like the fact that they are still in 2018 classified as white in the US and it doesn’t matter now.
What you’re suggesting doesn’t even make any sense.
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