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[entremet]

This is a side discussion that occurred in the Gaming Side.

Thought it would make a good dedicated topic.

TLDR: An Nintendo localization employee (employed at the time) went on a podcast and gave a very candid and off the cuff interview about his company's decisions. The podcast got picked up in Twitter, gaming media and the he was fired.

We know because he posted a FB message saying he was fired and how he has 100k in student loan debt.

It's unfortunate but predicable for anyone who has worked for a big company.

But many people were shocked at how he was 100k in debt. It appears it was for an English degree at the University of Oregon.

100k in student loans is massive. And University of Oregon is a state school too.

So it gets me wondering, when will it give?

US postsecondary tuition is outpacing inflation by many times. There are some schools that cost 50k per year!

I know no one gives a shit about college students politically, but having younger people saddled with such huge detb loads as wages continue to be stagnant, cost of living increasing and lack of economic mobility due to debt load, and it doesn't sound great for the future economic health of the US.

And let's not forget that much of the tuition increases hasn't been for higher quality instruction, but capital building projects, courting expensive researchers, and other amenities. And regarding teaching, on the contrary, more and more universities are using adjuncts instead of professors. The former being paid significantly less.

Do you think this bubble will burst?

 

[Shock]

I hope something changes... between my wife and I we pay $1600/mth.


We do make very good money but still.. that shit hurts.

 

[RDreamer]

It absolutely will burst. There's no way we can keep continuing on the trajectory we're on with the raise in tuition we've had. People will continue to become way too paralyzed by debt and the economy will stagnate.

 

[Wolfe]

It's a pretty fucking ridiculous situation (which we've got plenty of here, for profit prisons and healthcare are good examples) that I can only hope changes sooner rather than later.

 

[slippinjimmy]

I hope something changes... between my wife and I we pay $1600/mth.


We do make very good money but still.. that shit hurts.

The reason tuition is so high is because the government guarantees student loans,
which in turn raises tuition through the roof. if you take the government out of the student loan market colleges will have to lower there tuition's to atract students

 

[outunderthestars]

Bullshit mandatory fees for rec centers, athletics, clubs etc seem to be skyrocketing at the few schools I pay attention to.

That said, even those schools can still be affordable. I went to App State and it is still just $7000 a year and includes a good portion of your textbooks as part of the tuition and fees.

That said, I worked and went to community college for half of my time in school, and saved a ton. I think students would be better off taking a year after high school to work and save money for college. Follow that with a year or two at a community college, and then onto a university for upper level classes.

Also, spending $100,000 on an English degree just seems foolish to me.

 

[Shock]

The reason tuition is so high is because the government guarantees student loans,
which in turn raises tuition through the roof. if you take the government out of the student loan market colleges will have to lower there tuition's to atract students

What do you mean when you say guarantee?

Mine are private not government loans.

 

[PantherLotus]

Was looking up tuition to Mizzou (for my kid, who is 5) just yesterday and it was like, $84,0000 for four years of tuition this year. IN STATE. With no mid-stream course changes!

There's no that's sustainable. No fucking way.

 

[slippinjimmy]

What do you mean when you say guarantee?

Mine are private not government loans.

basically that the government has to give you a student loan no matter what your financial situation is.

colleges see this and say "if everyone who wants a loan is able to get one we can just jack up tuition because the government guarantees them a loan"

 

[Joyful]

broken system
america is full of em

 

[Shock]

basically that the government has to give you a student loan no matter what your financial situation is.

colleges see this and say "if everyone who wants a loan is able to get one we can just jack up tuition because the government guarantees them a loan"

That is/was not true in my case. I didn't qualify for any government assistance in my case. I had to utilize private loans due to my parents income when I went to college.

I may be missing something but I know in 2004 the government did not and would not loan me money.

 

[fuzzyset]

It probably won't burst for a while. Even with the high cost, it's still financially viable for many people in the long run. Plus, you basically have to die to default on student debt. The banks are going to get their cut.

 

[Two Words]

I read that his English degree is a Masters degree, which helps paint the picture a bit better.

I feel like I can't complain about my costs. About half of my costs are paid for by grants and I'm spending about $7000 annually after tuition and books. Maybe I'm on the luckier end of things if I can walk out of college with less than $25k in debt.

 

[danwarb]

It's bullshit. Education is being squeezed for profit and privatisation all over, but when we invest in people there's a great return for all.

It should ideally be treated as a universal right, like a good health service.

 

[slippinjimmy]

It's bullshit. Education is being squeezed for profit and privatisation all over, but when we invest in people there's a great return for all.

It should ideally be treated as a universal right, like a good health service.

That is the opposite of what we should be doing, the government giving everyone a loan to go to college will only raise the tuition costs because there will be more demand.

what we should do is remove government loans and subsides because that would force colleges to bring there tuition down to affordable levels.

 

[Averon]

It's bullshit. Education is being squeezed for profit and privatisation all over, but when we invest in people there's a great return for all.

It should ideally be treated as a universal right, like a good health service.

Thankfully several for-profit institutions are in trouble/went out of business recently. Word is getting out that paying 2-3 times the tuition of a public school to go to the University of Phoenix or DeVry or some other for-profit enterprise isn't wise.

 

[fuzzyset]

I read that his English degree is a Masters degree, which helps paint the picture a bit better.

I feel like I can't complain about my costs. About half of my costs are paid for by grants and I'm spending about $7000 annually after tuition and books. Maybe I'm on the luckier end of things if I can walk out of college with less than $25k in debt.

The average is low-30s for student debt, so you're on the good side of the bell curve.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Was looking up tuition to Mizzou (for my kid, who is 5) just yesterday and it was like, $84,0000 for four years of tuition this year. IN STATE. With no mid-stream course changes!

There's no that's sustainable. No fucking way.

Tuition & Fees at the University of Missouri are about $10,500 per year assuming 14 credit hours per year. Sure you weren't factoring in the total cost of college including items like room/meals, personal expenses, etc.? I see they do add a course fee of anywhere from $30 to $92 per credit hour depending on major.

But I see that a lot where people don't separate tuition costs from other personal expenses and count that all as tuition charges. Now of course the student has to eat and live somewhere, but those charges would exist no matter what.

And as someone who works in college admissions, you'll be shocked by how many people spring for the most expensive amenities even though they also talk about how little money they have and are told you can manage in a standard dorm instead of the apartment style suites.

 

[Vicetrailia]

That is the opposite of what we should be doing, the government giving everyone a loan to go to college will only raise the tuition costs because there will be more demand.

what we should do is remove government loans and subsides because that would force colleges to bring there tuition down to affordable levels.

Affordable for a young adult living on their own at 27k a year to pay for it, right?

 

[outunderthestars]

basically that the government has to give you a student loan no matter what your financial situation is.

colleges see this and say "if everyone who wants a loan is able to get one we can just jack up tuition because the government guarantees them a loan"

You are forgetting a key part: attracting large number of applicants. The more applicants a school receives the higher they climb in the BS college rankings put out every year. This leads to schools building absurd amenities that appeal to a 16-17 year old kid, but have little to do with actual education.

My college had multiple rec centers, indoor climbing wall, absurdly well stocked outdoor adventures club, 100+ clubs, etc. Add athletics and is really starts to add up. Hell, at App State Athletic fees are almost $400 a semester, mostly to support a football programs that the students don't even care about.

Take a closer look at App State:

Tuition is only $1980 a semester, but mandatory fees add another $1580 a semester.

http://studentaccounts.appstate.edu/tuition-details

College costs are skyrocketing, but very little of that ends up being spent on education....

 

[slippinjimmy]

Affordable for a young adult living on their own at 27k a year to pay for it, right?

It will be because if there are no government loans and no one can afford to go to college.

colleges will lose money and be forced to lower tuition to attract students.

 

[Kieli]

I can't remember the last time my school board did NOT fail to vote for a tuition increase.

It only hurts the students and fattens their bottom lines. There's utterly no incentive for them to institute cost-cutting measures. I look at the campus and every other week it's some new building or new amenities or new bullshit. Admins pull in ridiculous salaries whereas the adjuncts and PhDs barely make ends meet (and no, I am not joking. The salaries for adjuncts are a travesty).

 

[slippinjimmy]

You are forgetting a key part: attracting large number of applicants. The more applicants a school receives the higher they climb in the BS college rankings put out every year. This leads to schools building absurd amenities that appeal to a 16-17 year old kid, but have little to do with actual education.

My college had multiple rec centers, indoor climbing wall, absurdly well stocked outdoor adventures club, 100+ clubs, etc. Add athletics and is really starts to add up. Hell, at App State Athletic fees are almost $400 a semester, mostly to support a football programs that the students don't even care about.

Take a closer look at App State:

Tuition is only $1980 a semester, but mandatory fees add another $1580 a semester.

http://studentaccounts.appstate.edu/tuition-details

College costs are skyrocketing, but very little of that ends up being spent on education....

i agree with you 100% but that is the fault of idiotic college presidents and deans

 

[PantherLotus]

If we're being serious, tuition is rising because demand (everybody thinks they need to go to college) while costs have been decoupled from reality. And it's going to keep going up until:

1. college is free for everyone; or

2. no more student loans; or

3. ???

I dunno. Seems hopeless and I don't really see a realistic scenario where tuition comes down until demand goes down. Which means either the value of a degree is worthless or people can compete for jobs without them.

 

[slippinjimmy]

If we're being serious, tuition is rising because demand (everybody thinks they need to go to college) while costs have been decoupled from reality. And it's going to keep going up until:

1. college is free for everyone; or

2. no more student loans; or

3. ???

I dunno. Seems hopeless and I don't really see a realistic scenario where tuition comes down until demand goes down. Which means either the value of a degree is worthless or people can compete for jobs without them.

number 2. is really the only solution, or at least government provided student loans

 

[SwiftDeath]

Only 40k in student loans for me

That's of course for half of my college as my parents were able to pay the other half

I'm immensely lucky and still have 40k in student loans

Went to University of Illinois as well, public school and all

 

[outunderthestars]

The single goal of a public university should be to provide a world class education at the lowest reasonable price.

If they were forced to trim the fat from the absurd amenities they offer, costs could come down.

 

[Dr. Benton Quest]

number 2. is really the only solution, or at least government provided student loans

We get it bud. Big gobermint is the cause of all ills.

Take that nonsense somewhere else.

 

[Miletius]

If we're being serious, tuition is rising because demand (everybody thinks they need to go to college) while costs have been decoupled from reality. And it's going to keep going up until:

1. college is free for everyone; or

2. no more student loans; or

3. ???

I dunno. Seems hopeless and I don't really see a realistic scenario where tuition comes down until demand goes down. Which means either the value of a degree is worthless or people can compete for jobs without them.

The 3rd option is that there are substitutes that make college more affordable. Things like MOOK's or Community Colleges can do that, but only if they are robustly supported by both governments and the private sector.

Either way, any systemic change is going to take a long time and unfortunately the young of today are going to bear the brunt of that burden. Sucks for just about everybody on this forum, myself included.

 

[PantherLotus]

Tuition & Fees at the University of Missouri are about $10,500 per year assuming 14 credit hours per year. Sure you weren't factoring in the total cost of college including items like room/meals, personal expenses, etc.? I see they do add a course fee of anywhere from $30 to $92 per credit hour depending on major.

But I see that a lot where people don't separate tuition costs from other personal expenses and count that all as tuition charges. Now of course the student has to eat and live somewhere, but those charges would exist no matter what.

And as someone who works in college admissions, you'll be shocked by how many people spring for the most expensive amenities even though they also talk about how little money they have and are told you can manage in a standard dorm instead of the apartment style suites.

That's what it says here: http://money.cnn.com/tools/collegecost/collegecost.html#

Search: missouri, select University of Missouri

 

[Captain Tuttle]

It absolutely will burst. There's no way we can keep continuing on the trajectory we're on with the raise in tuition we've had. People will continue to become way too paralyzed by debt and the economy will stagnate.

I don't know, I was saying that 15 years ago.

But I do agree, it's becoming a huge issue. It's crippling a generation and will ultimately affect the economy.

 

[slippinjimmy]

We get it bud. Big gobermint is the cause of all ills.

Take that nonsense somewhere else.

oh, id like to hear your thoughts on why you think tuition is so high ?

 

[Epsilon-delta]

It's not sustainable in the long run. I can't imagine tuition rates in the future to be honest. It will be silly, almost comical at some point.

No one would want to go to college because it would be a net-negative in the future.

I say the breaking point will be by 2030 if the trend of tuition outpacing inflation many times continues.

Let's say the starting wage for an engineer is 80k by 2030. Does it really matter if the total tuition is 200k or more?

I don't see many smart, future students looking at that situation and saying it's worth it.

 

[Ambient80]

Going to med school is insanely costly. Everyone says "Oh but you're rich after you get out of residency!!!" Lol I wish. I'll be at ~$425k if you include interest after residency. That's in-state prices, too! God help those who go to an expensive med school out of state.

 

[PantherLotus]

That is the opposite of what we should be doing, the government giving everyone a loan to go to college will only raise the tuition costs because there will be more demand.

what we should do is remove government loans and subsides because that would force colleges to bring there tuition down to affordable levels.

No

It will be because if there are no government loans and no one can afford to go to college.

colleges will lose money and be forced to lower tuition to attract students.

no

number 2. is really the only solution, or at least government provided student loans

stop

We get it bud. Big gobermint is the cause of all ills.

Take that nonsense somewhere else.

there we go

 

[Sub_Level]

Fuck spending $400 a semester on books.

 

[Maximus.]

I feel like it may get to a point where more people will just not see the value in post secondary education.

 

[Miletius]

oh, id like to hear your thoughts on why you think tuition is so high ?

You're correct about why tuition is so high, at least in part. You're misguided about the solution though, as it would further cripple a generation of Americans as the market "adjusts."

There are more than enough wealthy young Americans (and others) to keep all the top institutions in this country running indefinitely. Your solution changes nothing about the situation in the near term, and it's dubious even in the long term.

 

[outunderthestars]

Fuck spending $400 a semester on books.

Still amazed that the open source textbook movement hasn't gotten more traction.

 

[Svartafaran]

Fuck spending $400 a semester on books.

400?? damn thats a brand new ps4

 

[Epsilon-delta]

Going to med school is insanely costly. Everyone says "Oh but you're rich after you get out of residency!!!" Lol I wish. I'll be at ~$425k if you include interest after residency. That's in-state prices, too! God help those who go to an expensive med school out of state.

Med school might be $1 million by 2030.

Fucking crazy, and yet we need doctors, specifically general practitioners for our rising aging population.

 

[Vicetrailia]

It will be because if there are no government loans and no one can afford to go to college.

colleges will lose money and be forced to lower tuition to attract students.

Universities as they are today couldn't exist on $500 tuition per student (and people still won't be able to pay for shit). The current 4 year system would need to change.

Do you really want to further encourage people to work full-time and go to school? Don't you want more engineers and mathematicians?

"If you can't pay, don't go" You really should start thinking about the lowest denominators.

 

[boiled goose]

oh, id like to hear your thoughts on why you think tuition is so high ?

Have you done your research? I mean the answer for state schools is obvious?

Lack of state and federal ffunding for higher Ed. No funding means students foot the bill. If government is footing the bill the downward pressure will be stronger instead of forcing students to bear the cost.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

What I generally see is this. There is demand and expectations that colleges and universities provide a host of student development services. When you tell a parent some extra service doesn't exist, they suddenly tune you out and move on basically. Could be clubs, could be psych services, career services, police/security, etc. Student services are I think critical to young adults just starting out their lives. Colleges are expected to have them available. Whether or not they are taken advantage of, that's partially on the student because a lot of that stuff can be very useful. You're also told all of this, including costs/fees up front. In the case of public schools, every action and decision is also open to public scrutiny.

I also see massive slashes to educating funding. How that is never brought up is beyond me. States slash higher education and K-12 funding like clockwork then people wonder why costs are going up so sharply.

Loans are certainly a problem. Not sure how to deal with them. Wasn't it back in the 70s or so (when school was cheap as hell) )where highly skilled people like lawyers and doctors would abuse the system and declare bankruptcy right after graduation to not have to repay loans? For-profits have to continue to be looked at given how inconsistent their educational services seem to be in relation to their costs, reliance on loans, and default rates.

Treatment of non-tenure track faculty and adjuncts are also an issue. Adjuncts pretty much have to slum it and non-tenure faculty struggle with respect. While I do feel for many professors, there are a number of douchebags at the top that are holier than thou and can't deal with other people and want to protect whatever they have - including tenure status and financial standing. That should be addressed.

 

[teruterubozu]

I can't remember the last time my school board did NOT fail to vote for a tuition increase.

It only hurts the students and fattens their bottom lines. There's utterly no incentive for them to institute cost-cutting measures. I look at the campus and every other week it's some new building or new amenities or new bullshit. Admins pull in ridiculous salaries whereas the adjuncts and PhDs barely make ends meet (and no, I am not joking. The salaries for adjuncts are a travesty).

Yup, the administrative bloat is overwhelming in many US colleges. I see universities creating new positions all the time and hiring people with ridiculous 6 figure salaries. Then they say that it's a competitive market in college administration and they need to pay these people high salaries just to retain them. Forget about professor salaries, they're all being replaced with adjuncts. It's a sad state, but these schools are all controlled by Trustees and Chancellors with special political and business interests. It's all very fucked.

 

[Sub_Level]

400?? damn thats a brand new ps4

400 is a lowball figure too.

ONE of my classes has a $250 book. And I have to buy it because it comes with an online activation code for homework. This is increasingly common.

 

[Plinko]

I guess I'm puzzled as to how this bubble can actually burst. If the job market is getting tougher and degrees are necessary, how is this ever going to stop?

 

[skLaFarebear]

Fuck spending $400 a semester on books.

That's why I try to never buy books, learned after my first year than only 10% of classes I've taken actually require the book for work, and even then renting >>>>>>>>>> buying.

 

[Syncytia]

number 2. is really the only solution, or at least government provided student loans

Well, looks like I wouldn't have a chance at getting a masters then. Thanks.

The problem isn't the loans themselves.

 

[Ambient80]

Med school will be $1 million or more by 2030.

Fucking crazy, and yet we need doctors, specifically general practitioners for our rising aging population.

That's what always irks me. That govt cries that we need more primary care physicians, then they refuse to help wit loans/tuition prices, plus expect them to start a new practice in a rural area. That includes buying a building, hiring staff, supplies/testing machines, utilities, at least one IT staff, plus an EHR (probably $100k at least), plus insurance. Even as someone who is specializing (I'm in Pathology), I've long felt that if you finish med school and residency Ina primary care field you should have loans at least mostly forgiven. Particularly if you work in an underserved area.