This is a long running idea on GAF now but you've gotta think about this from a business perspective. This would cost Nintendo major profits. I don't think this would be particularly attractive to them though it'd be cool for us consumers, maybe. I say maybe because it'd hold them back on creating a more powerful console which is like from them. No matter though. Gaming PC and ps4 will keep me busy for the time being =P
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What if Nintendo converged their systems next generation?
- Thread starter SlipperySlope
- Start date
Fourth Storm
Member
We did just have this thread. Anyway, I don't think they'll go the route of having just a handheld and "docking station." I think they'll have multiple devices which basically run on the same chipset. We got to talking about it in the GPU thread recently.
Since then, I've got back and forth as to whether they should use a typical mobile chipset (ARM and Imagination/NVidia Tegra) or just shrink down the Wii U chipset (should be doable in 4 years or so), but it seems like they are already considering a unified OS/multiple device approach going by recent comments made by Iwata. It may be inevitable.
Since then, I've got back and forth as to whether they should use a typical mobile chipset (ARM and Imagination/NVidia Tegra) or just shrink down the Wii U chipset (should be doable in 4 years or so), but it seems like they are already considering a unified OS/multiple device approach going by recent comments made by Iwata. It may be inevitable.
Well not if their one platform sold as much as the other two combined. It doesn't look like 3ds + wiiU sales will reach 100 million that the original wii sold.
I think a hybrid portable would be best. Basically a tablet controller with an hdmi out to allow for console-style play. If the 3ds and wiiU lineup was only on one console, and all the marketing and effort went into one console....I don't see how that's a bad thing for anyone.
If anything Sony is doing the same in that regard.
You say this as though motion controls just magically appeared in the Wii without Nintendo's involvement.
Fourth Storm
Member
Would it? I'd imagine they'd still be pumping out an equal number of Mario games and Mario Karts - maybe some in the form of DLC, but those would theoretically be selling to a larger installed base (definitely larger than Wii U's lifetime at this rate). This installed base would be amplified if they go the way I think they will and still have separate devices but a common platform.
1st Course
Member
I actually kinda seeing them going with a similar setup next gen if they didn't manage to turn the Wii U around.
Majmun
Member
They appeared just as fast as they disappeared. People bought the Wii for the motion controls, not because it was a Nintendo console. It was something refreshing and new. Something the WIi U isn't. Wii momentum is gone. Nintendo is back to their old self.
And going back to your previous post...
Even the Ps3 and X360 sold more than the NES and the SNES. I think you're just overestimating Nintendo's current appeal in console business.
No, you're definitely grossly underestimating Nintendo's place as the most successful console manufacturer in history. I never once said people go out and buy Nintendo consoles because they say Nintendo on the box. That's irrelevant. Clearly putting Sony or Microsoft on the box doesn't automatically move consoles, either. The point is, Nintendo has been immensely successful in the home console space in the past, including the very recent past, and they very likely will be again. Sony had the worst selling console and handheld last generation. That certainly doesn't mean they should just throw their hands up in the air and walk away from the industry.
Nintendo have always been going on about how handheld and console experiences should be different. Though they've released similar games on both platforms (Animal Crossing and 3D Land/World come to mind). I agree with them somewhat.
I can't enjoy games like Uncharted on a Vita. They just feel lacking, whereas Animal Crossing New Leaf feels perfect on the 3DS same with Wild World. City Folk on the Wii felt strange; like Wild World on a big screen. There are clearly differences in what work and what don't and trying to merge both would be quite a big challenge.
Personally, if Nintendo can't support both, I'd prefer they ditch their home console strategy and focused on a well-speced handheld platform. 3DS has great games but it could've been even better if it had more powerful hardware. I'm sure most of their home console games can transition well to handheld (like DKCR, OoT, etc. have).
It'll also be a nice change. We've never had a video game company dedicated to handhelds. It has always seemed second place even though it's one of my and many others' most played platform in every generation. It'll be nice to see what they can do.
I can't enjoy games like Uncharted on a Vita. They just feel lacking, whereas Animal Crossing New Leaf feels perfect on the 3DS same with Wild World. City Folk on the Wii felt strange; like Wild World on a big screen. There are clearly differences in what work and what don't and trying to merge both would be quite a big challenge.
Personally, if Nintendo can't support both, I'd prefer they ditch their home console strategy and focused on a well-speced handheld platform. 3DS has great games but it could've been even better if it had more powerful hardware. I'm sure most of their home console games can transition well to handheld (like DKCR, OoT, etc. have).
It'll also be a nice change. We've never had a video game company dedicated to handhelds. It has always seemed second place even though it's one of my and many others' most played platform in every generation. It'll be nice to see what they can do.
Majmun
Member
The difference is that Sony has had developer support since day one. And the developers aren't going away. They're still siding with them and ignoring Nintendo. Even MS is more appealing to them. You really think developers are going to leave MS and Sony for current Nintendo? LOL
The Wii U is dying and the Ps4 and X1 aren't even out yet...
And Nintendo isn't the most succesful console manufacturer is history btw. That tiltle belongs to Sony. The three Playstation consoles together have outsold all of six Nintendo consoles so far...
Refreshment.01
Member
We desagree here. Nintendo is the most influential and important console maker in history, even including the underperforming mUnstrosity. XD
I'll just say the very same thing I always say when this topic comes up: It doesn't work. The Wii U chipset consumes ~20W, the 3DS chipset maybe 0.2W. Unless you'd be fine with Nintendo's next "home console" being weaker than Wii U, of course...
What Nintendo does is they try to unify certain elements of future platforms (OS, middleware, toolchain, maybe even parts of the hardware architecture). That makes sense, and it's all that's realistically possible.
What Nintendo does is they try to unify certain elements of future platforms (OS, middleware, toolchain, maybe even parts of the hardware architecture). That makes sense, and it's all that's realistically possible.
Majmun
Member
Atari were maybe more influental and important. Where are they now.
Just saying...
Refreshment.01
Member
Nintendo outlasted them and will keep going for a lot longer XD
I like the hybrid idea, however people against it have an strong point in relation to Nintendo been so afraid (their perception) of losing revenew. They are so afraid of the concept, that they don't even want to test the waters with the Wii U.
What they should do and fits in their confort zone is arrive mid gen with their home console., centered in a ginmick like they have been doing in the last 2 cycles. That will work a lot better for them.
I think eventually they're going to have to. They keep splitting their marketing and development resources between two platforms, while Microsoft and Sony, both larger companies, mostly focus on one.
The problem is going to be, to find a chip-set that can meet a few specific criteria, those being.
Dropping the second screen would help with the battery life, and price, to some extent, while also opening up more space on the clamshell design things like a second analog, better speakers, and a slightly larger battery. However it's still going to come down finding a good chipset that can deliver amazing visuals at 1080p, while also being able to present the same visuals at 480p in a sort of power sipping portable mode. Thankfully, if you're using it like a console at home, you can plug it in then, though I'd want it to last at least two hours just on the battery.
Honestly, if I were Nintendo, I'd partner with AMD on the GPU again, and go for ARM cores for the CPU. The Wii U GPU, is actually quite the marvel in terms of power usage, so a little evolution there would go a long way towards creating what they need.
The problem is going to be, to find a chip-set that can meet a few specific criteria, those being.
- Affordable.
- More powerful than the Wii U, to some degree.
- Has a decent battery life.
Dropping the second screen would help with the battery life, and price, to some extent, while also opening up more space on the clamshell design things like a second analog, better speakers, and a slightly larger battery. However it's still going to come down finding a good chipset that can deliver amazing visuals at 1080p, while also being able to present the same visuals at 480p in a sort of power sipping portable mode. Thankfully, if you're using it like a console at home, you can plug it in then, though I'd want it to last at least two hours just on the battery.
Honestly, if I were Nintendo, I'd partner with AMD on the GPU again, and go for ARM cores for the CPU. The Wii U GPU, is actually quite the marvel in terms of power usage, so a little evolution there would go a long way towards creating what they need.
Refreshment.01
Member
I think Nintendo should have gone with ARM for Wii U CPU would have ended up been better for evrybody.
Why not have some software that easily runs on both systems? Like universal apps, Sony's cross buy stuff, or PS minis. Nintendo could still keep their big titles exclusive to one system, but smaller eShop titles or VC should work across platforms. Maybe it's not easy, but it seems like they could come up with something like Unity or Capcom's MT Framework.
I have to admit that it's starting to look like 3DS software could cannibalize Wii U software. Almost every major Wii U game out or coming out right now has a similar or equivalent game on the 3DS.
It's true that what's fun on a handheld isn't necessarily fun on a console, but the kinds of games Nintendo makes specifically seem to fit well for handhelds. Nintendo seldom makes the Uncharteds and such that are better played on a TV at home. The only Nintendo franchises I can think of that wouldn't really work on the 3DS are full 3D Zelda (barring Ocarina since that was designed for one stick), Metroid Prime, the Wii series.
It's true that what's fun on a handheld isn't necessarily fun on a console, but the kinds of games Nintendo makes specifically seem to fit well for handhelds. Nintendo seldom makes the Uncharteds and such that are better played on a TV at home. The only Nintendo franchises I can think of that wouldn't really work on the 3DS are full 3D Zelda (barring Ocarina since that was designed for one stick), Metroid Prime, the Wii series.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
We've had this thread at least once a week over the past few weeks, lol.
Lord_Byron28
Member
I normally don't get involved in these kind of discussions because they make everyone involved look silly but whatever.
No the the Wii was following the rise in sales and popularity of Nintendo consoles that started with the NES.
both arguements either way are incredibly stupid
Last I checked Wii U still supports and has motion controls as does the Kinect required Xbox 1 and the still supported motion controls for the PS4. So please tell me where motion controls went.
Atari didn't have a dozen or so franchises that sell millions worldwide.
I like the idea of the Wii U. I would probably like the idea of it's successor. However, I do feel Nintendo should spend more time developing games rather than console hardware.
Only three possible choices are available to them:
1: Create a hybrid console or something new altogether. If anybody could do it, it would be Nintendo. This path has many unknowns, such as impact on their bottom line. Would consolidating the hardware's halve their user base? Could they fit a PS4 into the palm of your hand in 5 years for around $250 dollars?
2: Create a partnership, say with Sony, to release their software on the PS5 and vice versa with Nintendo's next handheld. Would this allow Nintendo to reach a larger software audience to overcome the loss of profit on their next console? Would Sony developing for their next handheld create growth in that sector?
3: Ride out the Wii U, and then release their next console with a serious improvement with third party relations. Their handheld business would continue to be business as usually, either with a continued fight against handheld decline or a no growth market. Their next console would have to bridge the power gap, though less relevant in the future, and they as a company would have to be more active towards western third parties and third parties in general.
Either way they have an uphill battle to fight in the console arena.
Only three possible choices are available to them:
1: Create a hybrid console or something new altogether. If anybody could do it, it would be Nintendo. This path has many unknowns, such as impact on their bottom line. Would consolidating the hardware's halve their user base? Could they fit a PS4 into the palm of your hand in 5 years for around $250 dollars?
2: Create a partnership, say with Sony, to release their software on the PS5 and vice versa with Nintendo's next handheld. Would this allow Nintendo to reach a larger software audience to overcome the loss of profit on their next console? Would Sony developing for their next handheld create growth in that sector?
3: Ride out the Wii U, and then release their next console with a serious improvement with third party relations. Their handheld business would continue to be business as usually, either with a continued fight against handheld decline or a no growth market. Their next console would have to bridge the power gap, though less relevant in the future, and they as a company would have to be more active towards western third parties and third parties in general.
Either way they have an uphill battle to fight in the console arena.
Yeah, it's not like they're rapidly expanding or anything...
Well, getting rid of the bottom screen would help at lead some in that regard, by opening up space to place the buttons and triggers where they actually made the most sense. After that, and curving the edges a bit more, the real big challenge becomes fitting on four shoulder buttons, I'm honestly not sure how to handle that.
I do tend to agree that you should be able to sync additional controllers upto it though.
Wouldn't this superhandheld be expensive as fuck? It sounds like a dumb idea
I wouldnt be suprised if Nintendos next handheld replaced tbe tablet style controller for nintendos next console.
ShadowFox08
Member
THey could do something like the Nvidia Shield perhaps..
I'm not sure how they'd work around battery life though. If the next console/handheld is gonna be as powerful as the PS4, it's gonna take up a lot of power and drain the hell out of the batteries.
I'm not sure how they'd work around battery life though. If the next console/handheld is gonna be as powerful as the PS4, it's gonna take up a lot of power and drain the hell out of the batteries.
megabytecr
Member
Noooo!
What they have been hinting at is probably both of them supporting a development base. What I mean is probably the console been able to run all the handheld games and the handheld been able to run the console games built for a common base (probably the current small indie eshop games). They probably could build a technology that could port or somehow downgrade the console games on the handheld. With tablet and phone technology power on the rise I could see this happening.
Win win for them as people with only 1 device can reach out all their released software. People with both would probably run it on whatever device they want, and on both. Win win for the consumer too.
What they have been hinting at is probably both of them supporting a development base. What I mean is probably the console been able to run all the handheld games and the handheld been able to run the console games built for a common base (probably the current small indie eshop games). They probably could build a technology that could port or somehow downgrade the console games on the handheld. With tablet and phone technology power on the rise I could see this happening.
Win win for them as people with only 1 device can reach out all their released software. People with both would probably run it on whatever device they want, and on both. Win win for the consumer too.
I don't know if I really buy into this idea that "Nintendo obviously can't support two platforms at once." It seems to me that their level of support for both the 3DS and the Wii U is just fine - nobody seems to be bemoaning the 3DS's lineup, at all, and grievances with the Wii U tend to be either aimed at the hardware itself (Not powerful enough, too expensive, etc) or are complaints that people don't like the specific games that Nintendo is releasing, and not that there aren't enough of them.
And at any rate, other than the fact that I think this is a really premature question to be asking, I don't think it would be a smart idea at all to try and merge console and portable hardware. Hardware design decisions that are good for handheld platforms are very seldom decisions that are even remotely good for console platforms, and vice versa.
I think there's a lot more potential merit in the idea of merging their console and portable software - basically, encouraging a development model similar to Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate - but that's kind of a different question entirely.
And at any rate, other than the fact that I think this is a really premature question to be asking, I don't think it would be a smart idea at all to try and merge console and portable hardware. Hardware design decisions that are good for handheld platforms are very seldom decisions that are even remotely good for console platforms, and vice versa.
I think there's a lot more potential merit in the idea of merging their console and portable software - basically, encouraging a development model similar to Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate - but that's kind of a different question entirely.
You´re confusing something here pal. The PS2 alone sold more units than Wii, N64 and Gamecube combined.
Sony trashes Nintendo in overall console sales.
@ topic
That´s one of the dumbest ideasi´ve ever heard on gaf, a handheld/console hybrid would be be a sure bet to kill off Nintendos handheld business just as the WiiU killed their console business.
Handhelds and consoles are completely different devices with different target audiences and need to be built and priced accordingly.
This.
I know people scoff at this idea, but the reality is, unless they come up with some revolutionary DS like device and/or spend the requisite billions on marketing and advertising to force it down our throats, they are severely limiting the scope of potential buyers without phone functionality and a cheap App Store system. Even kids are bought smartphones and tablets these days (or given hand-me-downs).
And especially if they converge the audience with a hybrid console, they will surely need to expand in other ways.
Nintendo could make a killing on a child friendly phone with parental control options, and if they offered a sleek more mature model as well...
There's a lot of dispute WITHIN the gaming community about Nintendo, but I think broadly speaking they boast an excellent reputation and goodwill that could be capitalised upon.
Considering the Nintendo DS and Wii were supported next to each other, not really.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
The idea of Nintendo making a phone is the worst of them all. Seriously?
Dark Octave
Banned
Why not. They're already using near decade old tech as their flagship product. A $400 handheld that doubles as a home console for TV isn't that ridiculous, even for them.
Let's just find a way to encourage this idea without them thinking it belonged to someone else first or it will never fly.
Let's just find a way to encourage this idea without them thinking it belonged to someone else first or it will never fly.
soxinthebox
Member
All I can think of while reading the OP was trying to get my Wii Sports on the bus.
Why? You know, there was a time Nintendo only made playing cards.
Interceptor
Banned
Two revenue streams are better than one. it's really simple.
They went into dancing games and Wii Sports rip offs. The Kinect for Xbone will be used as a dancing simulator and something to yell at, the PS Move will be implemented randomly. Motion controls basically amounted to decent Nintendo games and horrible everything else.
The gen after PS4 and Xbone will probably be in a decade, so if those systems do alright and Microsoft/Sony know how to keep them juicy with software/games, consoles aren't going anywhere.
My main problem would be that some crucial aspects bonded to the "portable" or "home" side of things would be lost. especially in terms of software, of course.
a big-scale project as "X" or "Xenoblade" for examlpe, would be almost unplayable on a portable, for various reason, so would risk to be cut under the "implementation" mantra.
And don't forget that even being not as powerful as the competitors, Wii U is way more powerful than 3DS, for example. So we'd risk to see cut also the home graphical side of things.
a big-scale project as "X" or "Xenoblade" for examlpe, would be almost unplayable on a portable, for various reason, so would risk to be cut under the "implementation" mantra.
And don't forget that even being not as powerful as the competitors, Wii U is way more powerful than 3DS, for example. So we'd risk to see cut also the home graphical side of things.
It wouldn't necessarily have to be expensive, it depends when exactly they did this. If they released this sort of device within the next twelve months, yes, it'd probably be a 500USD+ device. This is in part why I'm hopeful that Nintendo will be able to turn the Wii U around enough to justify supporting it for 3-4 years, Nintendo would be much better off.
Anyhow, even 2-3 years from now, I believe Nintendo could put out a device such as this, with visuals markedly better than the Wii U, for under 300USD.
I think the real challenge will be battery life, to be honest.
The chance is pretty big for Nintendo to go ARM on both devices next gen. If they keep the current setup (dual screen on portable, screenpad for home console), they could implement compatibility to portable games on their home consoles without trouble.
The gen after this gen is 4 years away though, lots of shit can happen during that time.
The gen after this gen is 4 years away though, lots of shit can happen during that time.
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
This is a bad idea for so many reasons. First off, it would mean the handheld would be crazy-ass expensive. Secondly, there's no way a handheld could remotely compete with a console in terms of tech specs, so it'd likely be 1.5 generations behind current systems. Finally, it would reduce the number of cool gimmicks Nintendo is famous for, like the glasses-free 3D and motion controllers. You limit what you can do with each device when you have to consider the lowest common denominator.
Nothing1016
Member
They should only leave the home console market if they are no longer making a modest profit and if there is one thing Nintendo is good at, its finding ways to make everything profitable over the long run. Until then, the hyprid model won't happen.
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