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[Goddard]

I was just reading a thread on /v/ where someone was complaining (I know, how unusual right,) that the water levels were a significant flaw of Spyro: Ripto's Rage. Obviously his claim was unbased because the game has only one water level and it is a very minor level at that, but the thing that struck me is that virtually all water levels in all games in history have been almost universally criticized.

Now, to be honest, the only games I've played where there is a lot of that is Crash Bandicoot: Warped, and holy shit the water levels in that game made me want to rip my hair out, and the other is Spyro 1 through 3. In spyro the water levels tend me so minor, so short, and I've played them so many times (I've beaten year of the dragon at least 25 times, I used to speedrun it,) that I never really blinked an eye at them. Apparently some others are notoriously bad though, such as the water temple in OOT and the water part of SM64.

I can't think of a specific example but I'm pretty sure even in 2d games people complained about water levels a lot too.

What's the common denominator? My bet is shitty controls, but there's got to be more to it than that IMO.

 

[jackissocool]

The controls you've spent the whole game mastering no longer apply.

 

[AuthenticM]

Probably clunky controls most of the time.

 

[Tathanen]

Sudden change in mechanics from something presumably tight and enjoyable to something floaty, hard to manage, and generally not the game you want to be playing.

 

[NotDreamcast]

Swimming controls.

 

[hawk2025]

Additionally, they are usually slow, plodding affairs, even when the gameplay is still solid.

 

[VeryGooster]

Pretty much hindering controls for a certain portion of a game and you may as well move through molasses more often than not.

 

[AkelisRain]

No idea, the water levels are usually my favorite. They usually have a great track, and I love water!

 

[Saikyo]

-Slower control of the character
-Annoying mechanics like "oxigen meter" or the countdown on Sonic
-Enemies that move at a good speed against you
-Cramped level design at some stages

 

[.GqueB.]

I think the hatred can be traced back to this:

It soured all water levels for me. I hate them by default and need to be proven wrong.

 

[Zach]

What's the common denominator? My bet is shitty controls, but there's got to be more to it than that IMO.

Nope, that's it.

 

[Apdiddy]

None of them have "Dry Dry Docks" playing.

 

[Ramstein]

I've never once had any problem with any water levels in ANY games. It all boils down to the player's lack of skill. I'm sorry, it just had to be said.

 

[AlwaysPlaying]

Ocarina of Time ruined them for me. Between the clunky swim controls and the completely lost feeling. I now hate all of them.

 

[Rikkun]

Everything has already been said.

Also, by being floaty and clunky, they usually add in some puzzles, just to be safe.

 

[entremet]

Blame Nintendo for their design. Games have pretty much followed SMB1's water level design for ages.

Although they redeemed with Majora's Mask Zora mode.

 

[TetraGenesis]

If you're not an aquatic animal, navigating and surviving underwater is very difficult and slow and just does not translate well to action based game mechanics.

 

[BouncyFrag]

They are rarely ever fun.

 

[Azure Phoenix]

The tight and refined physics become a sluggish and floaty mess, typically you'll have some kind of air meter limiting the amount of time you can spend underwater and the biggest issue is how bloody long they usually are. For some reason developers seem to think that a water stage needs to be twice as long as normal ones just to drive home just how miserable they actually are.

 

[Ghost_Messiah]

The drowning music from Sonic 1's Labyrinth Zone still haunts me. Later Sonic water levels were much better but still. That music.

 

[kick51]

in addition to shitty controls, a lot of times they go on too long and have shitty objectives. and a big fuck you to water levels with an oxygen meter that you're up against

 

[we.are.the.armada]

For me it's two things: backtracking/trialerror water up water down mechanics and water movement/swimming

 

[Corpekata]

Bad controls and they often feel pretty much the same across most games. Find an exit or airpocket so you don't drown. If there's combat it's really shitty and awkward. Maybe collect a doodad. It's incredibly basic and hasn't seen any real progress.

Post Ocarina we've seen the water levels rising mechanic, which is a bit more interesting, but also rarer.

 

[magnetic]

I've never once had any problem with any water levels in ANY games. It all boils down to the player's lack of skill. I'm sorry, it just had to be said.

No, it doesn´t.

I just hate it as a general gameplay style, especially in Monster Hunter 3. I was incredibly happy when I realized that MHP3rd PSP was basically MH3U without any of that underwater crap. I´m so happy it´s gone completely in 4.

To be fair, most water levels have great, calm music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ-dHTnH48A

 

[Zareka]

The controls you've spent the whole game mastering no longer apply.

This is the reason for me.

"Huh, I'm really getting the hang of this monster hunting buis-! why did it jump in the water"

The thing is I love water themed levels and environments. Absolutely love them. But any time I have to actually play the game in the water, it kills it for me.

 

[Goddard]

The controls you've spent the whole game mastering no longer apply.

I guess first post nails it. I hadn't thought about it from that perspective, but when you think about it, it wouldn't really matter how good the controls actually are for the water level if they are a complete disconnect from how the rest of the game controls.

 

[Small Mailman]

DKC 1,2,3 did them right! Although in my youth I dreaded them and I would either hand the controller to an older kid(the secret weapon back in the day) or I would spend too many hours getting through. But yeah, it's mostly those weird floaty controls.

 

[leakey]

Usually terrible controls, terrible physics, or terrible mechanics centered around keeping you from drowning. That, coupled with the fact that most games for the longest time didn't even allow you to touch water without dying/losing a life.

 

[manueldelalas]

I've never once had any problem with any water levels in ANY games. It all boils down to the player's lack of skill. I'm sorry, it just had to be said.

Go play TMNT NES and come back as a man, Jr.

Imprecise controls, slowness everywhere, tacked on section of the game, invulnerable enemies that are more agile than you, unnecessary portion of the game, etc. Not fun.

Edit: forgot the need for air or you drown.

 

[Acquiescence]

Unwieldy controls and the ever-looming threat of insta-death via drowning.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

I've never once had any problem with any water levels in ANY games. It all boils down to the player's lack of skill. I'm sorry, it just had to be said.

This is hilarious.

 

[ArchersOfAgincourt]

At least every water level is supplemented with kick-ass music. It's like they know you're gonna be there awhile, so they at least give you something pleasant to listen to.

 

[Volcane]

 

[MRrogermoore]

i wish DICE would completely abandone water filled maps.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

They slow everything down or just change everything that has been established, but never for the better. They are just never fun levels to play in general. I am yet to play one that I like. Its frozen varient is no better.

 

[Mortemis]

To the people saying OOT, you should play OOT3D if you haven't. It made the water temple go from one of my most least liked dungeons in Zelda to one of my favorites. Just the small changes of better navigations and iron boots being easily accessible helps a whole lot to make it great to me.

As for the OP, idk. I'm just not a fan of water levels I guess, maybe because of swimming controls. First post explains it better though.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I liked the water areas in Soul Reaver. >_> Controls were a bit clunky but not that bad, and no air/time limit helped making it fun to explore vs annoying.

 

[Salmonbottle]

Clunky awkward controls and time limits are two of the three great gaming sins (the third being escort missions).

 

[sjay1994]

I don't mind water levels.... but I hate ice levels.

Having the degree of control you had in a game reduced is a fucking terrible idea.

 

[LX_Theo]

They create a twist on the control scheme that is often done badly. Why? Probably because its only a few levels in the game and wasn't as important to refine. That drop in refinement can hurt the experience a lot.

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

Usually because its slow. Controls are sometimes floaty too. I know Rayman Legends and Origins did a great job at making me dislike the water levels because they went on for so long.

Though, Hydrocity Zone in Sonic 3 did a great job as a water level. Fast paced, and faster routes were located above water. I liked it.

 

[HyperCubed4]

Nope.

 

[morpix]

Duke Nukem 3D

 

[theWB27]

I think the hatred can be traced back to this:

It soured all water levels for me. I hate them by default and need to be proven wrong.

I remember that level...crap it's terrifying.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

I like water levels more than most people. I LOVE water levels in Sonic. From Labyrinth to Hydrocity to Aquariam Park I love them. The water temple in Ocarina is my favourite dungeon in the game. Both in the original and the 3DS version. I quite like the ones in the new Rayman games too. It depends on the game I guess but a lot of water stages people supposedly hate are ones I love. I don't mind the change of pace that water levels bring.

One thing I will agree on though. The water stages in the DKC series are all kinds of awful. Seriously those stages can just fuck right off. That goes for the originals as well as Tropical Freeze. The water world damn near ruined Tropical Freeze.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Usually slow shitty controls

Playing on a timer like this is not fun

The labyrinth in sonic eventually grew on me but the last (or was it second to last) level (after all the conveyer belts with the buzz saws) had another underwater section with a sadistically placed air bubble after a bunch of vertical jumps, that if you messed up one jump or slowed at all the air bubble was timed to appear AS you timed out and drowned.

(granted I was only 5 at the time, maybe it's not as hard or unfair as I remember it)

 

[TheBear]

Oh man. Sonic's water levels completely killed the momentum in those games.
"Hey we have this great game about going super fast, wouldn't be fun if you made the player slow as fuck and have some shitty air bubble gimmick to piss them off!"

 

[Poodlestrike]

Mostly the suckiness.

 

[Scooter155]

Mario 1 had great water levels. The Frog suit in Mario 3 was fun. Donkey Kong Country had FANTASTIC water sections.

They don't get that much hate, really, do they?

 

[InfiniteCombo]

I've never once had any problem with any water levels in ANY games. It all boils down to the player's lack of skill. I'm sorry, it just had to be said.

This post is hilarious, probably for all the wrong reasons.

In my case, enjoyment of water levels (which is very low) has absolutely nothing to do with skill (which is moderately high, or fairly high depending on the game). Enjoyment is low for reasons already stated by other GAFers: floaty, often clunky controls, seemingly long levels (or at least seemingly longer than the land-based ones, probably due to the aforementioned floaty controls); often poor change of pace from an already-acquired rhythm and technical mastery of land-based levels, etc. Swimming mechanics in many platformers just don't translate very well to gameplay.

There are some exceptions (and even those are barely tolerable). For example, the frog suit in SMB3, or the water animal that you mount/become in DKC1 (I'm forgetting its name at the moment).

EDIT: right above me, Scooter knows what's up