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What is it about water levels that inspires such hatred?

It depends on the game. DMC for example had completely out of place water levels that eschewed the deep, layered gameplay the series is known for and replaced it with a first person shooter where you could "shoot harpoon" and "dodge"... and that's all. It almost seems like something went horribly wrong there. On the other hand, Guild Wars 2 went to the trouble to develop entire new skillsets for underwater use (often with really cool ideas, like replacing elementalists' fire spell with magma/steam based ones) and that often made use of the three dimensional combat. It seems it must not have been too popular anyway, because there's been little underwater content post-launch, which in this particular case is actually a shame.

I've never once had any problem with any water levels in ANY games. It all boils down to the player's lack of skill. I'm sorry, it just had to be said.

Gotta love the junior telling us all how the problem is that we all suck and don't realize it. Particularly hilarious because most often, they're actually easier for balance purposes (the aforementioned DMC is a perfect example), making them all the more boring.
 

Bombless

Member
I see OP has never set foot in Kedge Keep. Best zone and worst zone ever. Controls being one of the reasons for the worst.
 
Poor swimming controls.
Slow gameplay.
Possibly wonky camera control.

I can agree with that. But I often see water levels hated just for being water levels. In many games, I absolutely enjoy the stages as a diversion and for the calming atmosphere.

As pointed out, Donkey Kong Country (the old games as well as Tropical Freeze) have awesome water levels with great tunes, atmosphere and good, not too slow movement. Same for the Rayman Origins & Legends water stages. And I'm in a minority, but I actively like the water dungeons in Zelda games.
Generally, I dislike if the pace is completely broken compared to other stages of a game. That does not really happen in Zelda. It happens in some Mario games, but I still enjoy the stages because of the cool design and in newer Mario games, you usually have a great mix of water, speed up possibilities and tight controls.

Other games really use the slowness and awkwardness of water movement to their benefit. Resident Evil Relevations for example - the water segments were terrifying, but for all the right reasons. Tomb Raider Underworlds underwater-segments were among the best parts of the otherwise often average game.

Hated the water stages in Ninja Gaiden, though. These were just purely unfun to play because hey, I'm not playing this to fight with the camera to aimlessly swim around for 40 minutes and shooting some fish in the head with an underwater gun, I'm playing this to have epic sword fights with groups of enemy ninja/demons. The Turtles dam was a nightmare and a total mess when it comes to gameplay but I mastered it as a kid after many long afternoons of trial and error and I can still autopilot it. Nevertheless hate that stage :p Sonic water stages can go hide under the carpet till the house burns down, too.
 

Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
It seems like developers don't look at them as levels within the game they're making, and spend too much time during development asking "how would water affect the protagonist?" I don't want water to affect my character. I don't want to move slowly because I'm swimming. I don't want some long animation for getting into and/or out of the water. I don't want to have some or even all of my attacks (or other abilities) disabled because I'm in water.

If it's an icy water level, I don't want to slip around on ice. Slipping around on ice is an outdated garbage mechanic, and it's annoying, especially if it causes me to take damage because I can't dodge properly, or causes me to die.

Also, visual design is always the same: blue. Water levels don't need to be blue, quit making them blue.
 

I Wanna Be The Guy

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
I don't care what anyone says. The Sonic series is the best example of water stages done right and the Donkey Kong Country series is the best example of water stages done wrong. Especially Tropical Freeze. Christ they nearly killed that game.

Water stages improve Sonic games and do a fantastic job of changing the pace. I feel like most of the hate comes from people that play Sonic games mainly for the speed and hate any level that doesn't allow much of that. I mean I hear people say they hate Marble Zone in Sonic 1 as well despite the fact it was a well designed stage. A level in a Sonic game doesn't have to be fast to be good. Labyrinth was an absolutely brilliant level and a very good contrast to the kind of levels that came before and after. It's easily the best use of an air bubble mechanic in any game. The tension that comes from the drowning theme is unreal. It makes it a very exciting level to play and it doesn't need speed to do it. Then once the level is done you get a fast paced simple stage in Starlight Zone. Labyrinth was very well designed and whilst I wouldn't want the majority of the game to be like that, it served its purpose well and provided a great change of pace and a well designed stage. Other water levels in Sonic games do a great job of having alternate paths with the water path being slower and making keeping above water feel rewarding.

Now lets get to my issue with Tropical Freeze. I think if it was just one or two stages I would have been ok with it. What makes the water stages in TF so damn terrible is that they don't understand the point of a water stage in a platformer. To change the pace and be something a bit different for 2 or 3 levels. Tropical Freeze doesn't change the pace for a short while. It kills it dead for an entire world. I could deal with it for a short time but not an entire world. I just don't find the stages fun either. The movement and the way the stages are designed is just not fun to me. I think what I like about Sonic is that it doesn't really change the core gameplay all that much other than slow it down. You're still running and jumping just in a different environment. In DK you're swimming and I don't like it at all compared to the core gameplay. It also doesn't feel as smooth as swimming in other platformers like the Rayman games.

Even Mario does it way better by at least only having a water stage every now and then. It's all about how long they last and how often they come up. I love a change of pace. Just don't flood me with stage after stage after stage after stage of them. That's probably my biggest problem with them in Tropical Freeze, although like I said I didn't enjoy the water gameplay regardless. TF is actually the only game I can even think of where water stages actually bothered me. Other than the original DCK games of course.
 

A-V-B

Member
Bad controls, timed drowning mechanic in an area that could be incredibly pretty but you're forced to skip looking at any of it, lots of annoying monsters that are fast when you're slow, none of your weapons work, etc..
 
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