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What silicon technologies should go into NEXT-GEN consoles: Xbox3 - PS4 - Wii2 ?
- Thread starter camineet
- Start date
Intel would be a good catch for Sony purely from a silicon process point of view. They are at least 1 generation ahead of IBM & AMD and design excellent chips with great TPD which should make for cheaper cooling solutions. Also have one the best yields per wafer in the industry.
If PS3 is launched 2012, Intel 1270 process (22nm) should be hitting the market in desktop and mobile CPU markets and it should be easy to scale Larrabee to 22nm from initial launch at 32nm node.
If PS3 is launched 2012, Intel 1270 process (22nm) should be hitting the market in desktop and mobile CPU markets and it should be easy to scale Larrabee to 22nm from initial launch at 32nm node.
Grampa Simpson
Banned
Huge coup is true. I'm kind of with the rumormonger on the idea that Sony will shoot first next generation. I'm a little surprised at the idea of another complete change in architecture. I'd think that they'd want to maintain backwards compatibility. Of course, it could be that they're able to leverage what is a massively parallel CPU of a GPU into making PS1 and 2 compatibility a possibility in software.camineet said:
Cow Mengde
Banned
Yeah... that about sums it up.
Also, their plan to beat the Xbox 3 to the punch contradicts what Sony's been saying all along. Not saying I put any stock into it, but do they really want to bleed money before they could be profitable with the PS3?
Grampa Simpson
Banned
So is thread-shitting.aerts1js said:
dreamcastmaster
Banned
Cow Mengde said:
Ten year plan, lets see if Sony can stick to that.
CosmicGroinPull
Member
camineet said:
Thank God!
It was claimed that CELL was clocked up to 5Ghz range at 90nm node.
The IBM Power6 CPU which uses in order cores clocks up to 6Ghz at the 65nm node.
CELL 2.0 (8 SPUs) for the PS4 should be able to clock at 6.4Ghz on a mature 45nm node. This would allow for game developers to reuse their existing code base from the PS3. The console would be fully backwards compatible with PS3 software as well. The die size of this CELL CPU would be small so the cost would be low.
Then Sony just puts in a big GPU from Nvidia. It'll be able to do more heavy lifting than RSX.
While I'm sure Intel is almost offering Larrabee almost for free to Sony, risk is involved with this path. Sony would be starting over from scratch with their code bases. All the time and effort spent by their first party studios optomizing CELL PS3 generation games would be flushed down the toilet.
The IBM Power6 CPU which uses in order cores clocks up to 6Ghz at the 65nm node.
CELL 2.0 (8 SPUs) for the PS4 should be able to clock at 6.4Ghz on a mature 45nm node. This would allow for game developers to reuse their existing code base from the PS3. The console would be fully backwards compatible with PS3 software as well. The die size of this CELL CPU would be small so the cost would be low.
Then Sony just puts in a big GPU from Nvidia. It'll be able to do more heavy lifting than RSX.
While I'm sure Intel is almost offering Larrabee almost for free to Sony, risk is involved with this path. Sony would be starting over from scratch with their code bases. All the time and effort spent by their first party studios optomizing CELL PS3 generation games would be flushed down the toilet.
Grampa Simpson
Banned
The idea of a Larabee being the primary and only processor in the system is an interesting one. There's something to be said about doing rendering in software on a massively parallel CPU and running game logic on the same array and having a unified memory that ties to it. All they really have to do is set aside part of the memory as a frame buffer, and only write to it during the vblank cycle. It will be like programming old assembly competition demos but with gobs of processing power - and additional processors - and additional memory. If the Larabee is what Intel says it is, it could make for a very interesting architecture indeed.
Trailblazer
Banned
Brimstone said:
Even at 45 nanometer your looking at a very Hot box at 6.4Ghz. I believe Cell2.0 we'll see a increase in PPE's and SPU's and some minor tweaks to the PPE and not an increase in clock speed.
So My prediction for Cell 2.0
Cell 2.0 = 2 PPE's and 12 SPU's
Grampa Simpson
Banned
Are we talking about a 32 core revision?navanman said:
Grampa Simpson
Banned
Even the mods have noted problems with groupthink in the past. Having a minority opinion often means getting lynched by other posters.Log4Girlz said:
Trailblazer
Banned
Log4Girlz said:
I highly doubt the PS4 will be a Larabee only. Even using larabee as a CPU with be horrible. Besides, why would Sony throw out their entire tool chain when they don't have too? Why toss the baby out with the bath water?
Cell in the PS4 is a Given. The only thing that not too certain is what type of GPU it'll have. Some sort of Larabee acting as a GPU while using Cell as a CPU could work, but backwards compatibility with PS3 games would be out.
I'm just not buying this Larabee rumor till i see it. Then again stranger thing have happened.
Trailblazer said:
I'll respond like I did in the other thread. I think the rumor smells of BS. But, if they are going for a GPU that is made up of tiny CPU cores, why include the Cell if you can axe an expensive chip and just go GPU only? Its the only reason I can see for choosing Larabee...otherwise its a pretty big leap to go for such a non-conventional design.
As for the other rumor in this thread about manufacturers going for CPU/GPU integration next-gen ou of the gate...wouldn't surprise me in the least if the footprint is small enough so as not to affect yields. Larabee is a CPU/GPU by design.
dreamcastmaster said:
They're already backing away from that:
David Reeves said:
Source: http://ps3.nowgamer.com/news/218/reeves-uncertain-over-ps3s-10-year-lifespan
Grampa Simpson
Banned
Sony has a history of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.Trailblazer said:
It also seems like the Cell hasn't been terribly popular with developers. It sounds like most use the PPE primarily with a few easy to stream functions offloaded to the SPEs. It may be much easier to get developers to take full advantage of a more traditional parallel processing setup.
It also might be the case where a lot of the tool chain could be ported over to X86 with items that would normally be offloaded to a SPE get offloaded to one of the many available parallel processors instead.
i don't get you guys sometimes.
Wii succeeded by being different, changing the game. So now eveeyone else will succeed by copying? Surely the lesson to take away from Wii is that you can't predict how things will pan out.
And stop with the lack of imagination. Was it this dull last gen? ""Oh PS3 will probably be an overclocked PS2".
As for Sony abandoning CELL - why? They've already taken the massive hit in development costs, teams are getting used to the achitecture, is perfectly suited to games processing, and the multicore approach is being widely adopted. Unless GPGPUs are massively faster and cheaper, I see Sony sticking with CELL
Wii succeeded by being different, changing the game. So now eveeyone else will succeed by copying? Surely the lesson to take away from Wii is that you can't predict how things will pan out.
And stop with the lack of imagination. Was it this dull last gen? ""Oh PS3 will probably be an overclocked PS2".
As for Sony abandoning CELL - why? They've already taken the massive hit in development costs, teams are getting used to the achitecture, is perfectly suited to games processing, and the multicore approach is being widely adopted. Unless GPGPUs are massively faster and cheaper, I see Sony sticking with CELL
Grampa Simpson
Banned
Especially when corporate entities are typically very averse to trying new things. Nintendo is fairly alone in it's openness to the idea of changing the interface elements around every generation.
D-Pad
Shoulder Buttons
Analog Stick
Freehanded motion control and pointer interface.
The others are likely to copy, but will be unlikely to take a new direction and abandon the old one unless someone else has proven it first.
D-Pad
Shoulder Buttons
Analog Stick
Freehanded motion control and pointer interface.
The others are likely to copy, but will be unlikely to take a new direction and abandon the old one unless someone else has proven it first.
Trailblazer
Banned
camineet said:
If this Larrabee rumor is true and I'm don't think it is. It would have to be a custom job, designed with Cell 2.0 in mind. That being said. I can't help but wonder about 3 things
1. Would they include edram?
2. Would Larrabee be able to emulate RSX?
3. Would Cell 2.0 an Larrabee share a single pool of memory?