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[cormack12]

The last I played was Halo 3, and Halo Infinite has got me revisiting Halo 4 and Halo subs, trailers and just generally seeing where the franchise is up to. It seems to be it was received quite negatively. From the youtube vids, the graphics looked ok. I saw a lot of complaints about story elements and letting people escape multiple times, there were some complaints about multiplayer being ruined due to sprint, but I don't think I've got a cohesive picture of what actually happened. Halo 5 gameplay looked a lot like Doom 2016 tbh which was praised quite highly. Although the environments looked a bit sterile, and the enemies were obviously standard Halo enemies.

So any gaffers want to fill me in? Did it really drop off a cliff edge? Is it just online vocal minority? How can infinite fix these issues if they are real?

 

[captainraincoat]

They were not bad games....they just didn’t move the needle as much as 2/3 and reach did

Sort of like uncharted on PlayStation....first 2 were great and then it didn’t really evolve and felt repetitive in the next couple of games

Hoping the rumours of infinite being a destiny type game are true

 

[Optimistic Gamer]

Story-Telling was rather bland. Prometheans are just the least inspired and fun Halo enemies ever.
Multiplayer-wise I really really liked both games. Halo 4 might be peak Halo versus so far.

 

[Grumpy Toe Nail]

Halo 4 was too casual (Classes, staying zoomed in when shot) and lost its hardcore competitive scene shortly after launch. Halo 5 had a good balance for the hardcore being developed in hand with pro's but was awful at appealing to casuals with its garbage attempt at massive multiplayer matches aka Warzone leaving whats its really memorably for 8v8 to die.

Fuck destiny, if i wanted that id just go play it.

 

[tryDEATH]

Story was was lackluster in both games. Halo 4 didn't evolve enough and the implementation of sprint didn't go down well with a large majority of players, while 5's story was disappointing the MP was exceptional and on par with Halo 2/3, but it too had backlash over its microtransaction in MP more precisely in the Warzone(PvPvE) game mode where you could call in vehicles and weapons that you would get in packs that were single use.

They will have had a 5 year development cycle by the time Halo Infinite launches and I am expecting an absolutely filthy game from them one that is truly going to reestablish Halo as the reigning console franchise for next generation.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

As far as I’m concerned, the new enemies really killed the games for me.

 

[Kagey K]

Halo 4 story had issues with Prometian dogs. Halo 5 had issues with the Blue Team vs stuff.

I dont play Halo for the single player(I play it a few times solo and with friends but my meat and potatoes is arena.), so let’s criticize the multiplayer a bit.

Halo 4 made a big mistake, by having people join in on a losing team (COD) style. It’s wasn’t made for that, and you could end upon a team where you had 16 people join you through the match just to get killed over and over again.

Halo 5 made a big Comeback in the proper Arena, but focused on Warzone instead of the Arena matches.

They just have to go back to the gun, grenades, melee loop that Halo is famous for in the Arena and they will have a hit.

 

[Ovek]

Story was complete shit.
New enemy was shit.
343 thought bullet sponge enemies were a good idea.
Graphics were meh at best.
Multiplayer got old fast.
Software bugs.

I have zero faith in 343 ability to bring a decent Halo game to market.

 

[mcz117chief]

The story was absolute garbage. It didn't fit with the previous games at all. It was clearly established that Halo 3 was the end of the story and that the flood and Covenant were defeated, THE END. There were so many great stories that took place before Halo 3 that involved many of the beloved characters including Master Chief but they had to shoe-horn a new story with a completely re-worked lore and everything. Halo 4's lore feels completely different from the previous games, for example the ancient humans. Halo 5 is just the continuation of the train wreck that was Halo 4 so I don't hate it nearly as much. It just doesn't feel like any of the previous Halos at all. 343 should have made games about everything that happened between now and the end of Halo 3, you could easily make hundreds of fantastic and interesting games in that time frame. Insurrections, first contact with the Covies, Spartan Is, Spartan IIs, stories about individual marines, ODST, pilots. You could easily make a whole game where you fly a pelican, just look at Dropship: United Peace Force. A fantastic game where you mostly play a pilot of a transport craft. But no, they had to re-write everything and "suddenly everybody is a bad guy again" so you get to shoot everyone again for no reason. It is just pure trash and completely ruined Halo for me.

 

[MayauMiao]

The last I played was Halo 3, and Halo Infinite has got me revisiting Halo 4 and Halo subs, trailers and just generally seeing where the franchise is up to. It seems to be it was received quite negatively. From the youtube vids, the graphics looked ok. I saw a lot of complaints about story elements and letting people escape multiple times, there were some complaints about multiplayer being ruined due to sprint, but I don't think I've got a cohesive picture of what actually happened. Halo 5 gameplay looked a lot like Doom 2016 tbh which was praised quite highly. Although the environments looked a bit sterile, and the enemies were obviously standard Halo enemies.

So any gaffers want to fill me in? Did it really drop off a cliff edge? Is it just online vocal minority? How can infinite fix these issues if they are real?

I think he said it best:

 

[VertigoOA]

Horrible new race design. Horrible new weapon design. Horrible art direction for Halo 5 with the worst, linear campaign with the same horrible boss fight 5x over and a cast of characters you will never give a shit about.

Halo 5 is legitimately the worst AAA budgeted shooter of all time. Seriously... it’s fucking bad. Halo 4 is far better at least but it’s still pretty average at best.

343 are hacks. Halo is dead.

Only reason I’ll play Infinite is because ... gamespass. Otherwise, 343 doesn’t deserve anyone’s money. They can’t even plagiarize properly.

meanwhile destiny rarely ever leaves the top 10 most played lists on both Xbox live and steam (ranked 9 on Xbox and 5th on steam at this very moment)

Sorry, but losing Bungie cost MS the generation. The proof is the numbers... Halo is dead and Bungie made sure it stayed dead by outclassing the hacks who try stealing their work.

 

[Skelterz]

I think there’s a certain X-factor to the bungie developed Halo games that’s sort of indescribable you can liken it to the gears franchise after gears 3 and the Final fantasy series after 9.
Sometimes lead designers or directors move on or swap roles and it can be detrimental to a franchise.

With that being said Destiny isn’t an awful game and it did scratch the Halo itch for me , it just didn’t have the longevity that the chief series did way back when...long live the red ring of death days.

 

[Graciaus]

Halo 4 had unbalanced multiplayer. No unscope on being shot made the game a joke. Boltshot spawn spam was terrible. See through walls ability was cheap with no real draw back. The abilities in general weren't very balanced. Kill streak stuff was trash but was ignored later with different game types. Precision weapons were unbalanced but I believe they did nerf/buff some eventually.

The game is terrible in a competitive setting. Ignoring that the game is actually really fun to play but because it is easy. Maps aren't bad either and you can pick what weapons to spawn with. Pro slayer ignoring most default settings is really fun.


Halo 5 plays nothing like Halo. Every map also sucked making the game unplayable for me. They rebalanced the guns years later and further ruined the game.

Both campaigns are boring. New enemies aren't fun to fight.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Nothing I enjoyed them both. Looking forward to seeing where they take the story in the next one.

 

[SleepDoctor]

They weren't bad games, but they were terrible Halo games. But thats my opinion.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Poor story, poor characters, poor enemy design, poor weapon design, poor level design, poor gameplay implementations, poor marketing, poor studio vision and poor studio management. No single part of it was bad, but none of it felt like it wasn't decided by committee and churned out to fill a quota.

Halo used to be this slick, exciting and inspired series that was a major event in gaming with each new entry. You could feel the love and excitement that had gone into making it.

Now it's just an average and frankly a bit boring, tired old franchise coasting on it's past success.

 

[the_master]

Enemies, AI and scale.

Enemies:
This goes together with the AI but I'll make it its own point to talk about the enemy mechanics.
Fighting the new enemies is not fun, They are hard to hit, or have a lot of hp but they are simply not fun. I had fun killing grunts and elites, it was a "perfect" experiende, Jackals with shileds and hunters had fun challenges. They where designed for this purpose.
Halo 4 and 5 enemies are anoying to hit, more than challenging to hit. Note how the worst enemies in the older halso are flying drones for the same reason, they are moving fast and are hard to hit. Something not fun with a gamepad.

AI:
This is part of the enemies but I'd mention it separately.
The combat dialog is gone so you don't have a sense of what the enemies are doing and why. You don't see how they cooperate or coordinate. In the old halo games it was clear when the enemies ran in fear or got angry. The combat dialog and animation was made to show that. The AI was designed so that the player influences the battel and the enemies behave in a very clear way. That made them seem super smart and advanced. All of this is gone.

Scale:
Halo was famous fo its massive battles and sense of immersion. In Halo 4, I felt like I was alone and the enemies where empty, I also felt a smaller scale. Halo 5 I don't even remember it, just that there was a story that didn't feel like Halo either.

 

[Traianvs]

I only play halo for the single player campaign so my issue with the 343 games wasn't about gameplay but for the terrible story that relies on you reading comics and book to understand it. I don't know who's in charge of the halo story now but he's a fucking lazy idiot.
Also, halo 5 had a cheap campaign with many reused encounters and bosses .

 

[Sorne]

Some of the responses in here is exactly what you should just ignore. Just plain hate towards 343i, with no actual critiques.

Halo 4 changed a lot. In terms of campaign, they introduced a new enemy type which many found pretty bland, me including. But for the story itself, they made it a lot more personal and emotional, especially with chief. Some people liked it, some people didn't like it. I would definitely recommend playing through just for the story. The gameplay is still very solid. And what they achieved with visuals on the 360 is VERY impressive. You can dislike the new art style, that's fine. But saying the game looks like shit is just wrong.
Multiplayer is very they dropped the ball for many. You could max out in a week, and it was too much of a CoD clone with weapon loadouts and ornaments you could call in during gameplay. But without all that extra jazz, the gameplay still feels like Halo.

Halo 5's story (without getting into spoilers) were just a kick in the nuts after Halo 4's ending. Also the marketing was a bit misleading, to say the least.
But the multiplayer is probably one of the best since Halo 2 and is still very much played to this day. But it's A LOT more modern, than any previous Halo games. So that is why it's off putting for some.

That's my take on it, at least.

 

[mrBarrelNut]

Story was complete shit.
New enemy was shit.
343 thought bullet sponge enemies were a good idea.
Graphics were meh at best.
Multiplayer got old fast.
Software bugs.

I have zero faith in 343 ability to bring a decent Halo game to market.

What? Halo 4 looks fucking amazing even today! Halo 5 looks really nice as well, and plays extremely well (4K@60FPS on X1X).

I have only played singe player campaigns but both were good games. Halo 4 was actually quite superb. I liked the story line including Prometheans and all that ancient forgotten history of humankind.

 

[Phil-NeoGAF]

The presentation of the story in Halo has always been bland, so the actual plot never mattered too much. The weaker plots of Halo 4 and 5 make it glaringly obvious. Multiplayer peaked in 3 then became an amalgam of every FPS on the market. Its "evolution" contributed to its current state. Hopefully, Halo Infinite is a return to form similar to the original three.

 

[OutrageousFacts]

Story was was lackluster in both games. Halo 4 didn't evolve enough and the implementation of sprint didn't go down well with a large majority of players, while 5's story was disappointing the MP was exceptional and on par with Halo 2/3, but it too had backlash over its microtransaction in MP more precisely in the Warzone(PvPvE) game mode where you could call in vehicles and weapons that you would get in packs that were single use.

They will have had a 5 year development cycle by the time Halo Infinite launches and I am expecting an absolutely filthy game from them one that is truly going to reestablish Halo as the reigning console franchise for next generation.

"filthy" is not a positive word?

 

[KormaChameleon]

Halo 4 wasn't a bad game. I enjoyed it for what it was. Some of things I dislike about Halo 4 were the bullet sponge enemies that was also not very interesting to fight. The multiplayer was too dumbed down and trying to appease the COD market with classes and staying in-scope while getting a shot at. It didn't seem like a very skilful game to me.

Halo 5 on the other-hand. That game can fuck off and like to keep telling myself that game does not exist. Have zero faith in Halo Infinite.

 

[Flintty]

They were good games. Nice gunplay etc. but just didn’t feel as epic story wise as Halo should be. Also the fucking enemies. Fuck them guys and the same boss dude all the time. Painful.

 

[Shantae]

I never played them either, but all the negative backlash really just killed any enthusiasm I had for playing them myself. I always say I'll do it someday, but never get around to it.

From what I remember when Halo 4 launched though, for those who care about the story in these games, I felt like Halo 3 left the door wide open for something new for the franchise. Go in a bold new direction where the Master Chief is severed from all human contact or anything recognizable....yet they pretty much just went back to the well right away, and killed any mystique that the end of Halo 3 had.

 

[Diddy X]

The forerunner style wasn't cool or they just didn't present it the right way, military earth/halo or covenant styles are way better to play through.

Oh and also the enemies were pretty annoying, all this made 4 and 5 not as good as the prior games.

Gameplay was good tho, 5 was superb, probably the best in the series.

 

[Clintizzle]

Halo 4:
Single player: Story became a little complex and not very interesting. It didn't feel as blockbuster as the previous games. No wow moments. Just run there and press that button. Can't complain about graphics tho.

Multiplayer: was wayy too different to usual Halo MP. There was no familiarity. Too much to get used to for me.

Halo 5:
Single player: Just more of "run there and press that button". Had a more interesting story than 4 but gameplay let it down.

Multiplayer: I actually liked the MP, it felt better than 4 and I played for quite a while and kinda moved on to the newer games.

 

[JimiNutz]

Halo 4 storyline was very poorly told for anyone not extensively familiar with the novels/extended universe (something 343 acknowledged later on and tried to correct in Halo 5)

Prometheans just aren't as fun to fight as the Covenant were.

Halo 4 MP had too many COD elements which pissed off a lot of the hardcore fans.

Both games felt quite linear compared to Bungie Halo campaigns and didn't feature many huge levels.

Halo 5 campaign made the mistake of not making Chief playable in every level. The people want Chief, how have they not learnt that by now?

Halo 5 MP added sprint, ADS, Spartan abilities etc. I thought it was the best Halo MP ever but again, the hardcore weren't happy.

 

[Woo-Fu]

Consumer expectations were poorly managed.

 

[MCplayer]

they were bad games for a Halo title, it didnt feel halo, new visual design choices, new music composer, new gameplay, they were just changing Halo all together not evolving it, campaign was trying to be filmic, epic, when Bungie Halos were more emotional, cinematography much much more well composed, music was another level, etc

MP meh, Reach was the last one I enjoyed

 

[RAIDEN1]

If you are talking "bad games for a Halo title" then I wouldn't say Halo 4/5 was so low, if you are looking at bad, may I point you to Mass Effect Andromeda, now THAT was a bad game for even Mass Effect, considering the great work the trilogy had built up, I loved the near photo-realistic cut-scenes from 5, gameplay wasn't bad, but yes Andromeda shows how bad things can get...

 

[tryDEATH]

"filthy" is not a positive word?

Filthy is a very positive word.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

The main things were lame enemy types and less open environments.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Halo V tried to tell too much a story, the switching too and from the main characters just didn't work, nor did having 4 multiplayer co-op in single-player mode.

 

[mrBarrelNut]

Halo 4 looks damn nice, even by today's standards.




Halo 5 plays really well (solid 60 fps) and looks really nice too:




My only problem with 5 are the following:

• Enemies need too many bullets to bring them down
• Head shots should matter more

Basically gun play issues.

I don't think the forerunners are bad enemies, quite the opposite in fact. And I think covenants were childish and lame enemies to begin with. I liked how some of those bigger and badder forerunners lost armor pieces when hit and they looked really cool.

Just add more effective and bad ass sounding human weapons (with ammo along the way, I don't like those alien weapons) and It would be great!

 

[Ascend]

I had little issue with the gameplay of both.

The story of 4 was good enough for me.
The story of 5 was garbage.

 

[Södy]

Story-Telling was rather bland. Prometheans are just the least inspired and fun Halo enemies ever.
Multiplayer-wise I really really liked both games. Halo 4 might be peak Halo versus so far.

What? Halo 4 was more CoD than Halo.

I don't like the new art styles as much and the music doesn't get near Halo 1-Reach. Oh and the prometheans are just bad.

 

[HBx2000]

For me, Halo 4 finally had some well needed enemy diversity. Nothing wrong with the story.

Halo 5's multiplayer almost had nothing to do with everything that came before it.
I hated those REQ packs. It also looked like a game that could/maybe should have released on the Xbox 360.
The story of Halo 5 could have been great, purely based on the trailers before launch.
But something went wrong in execution, like so little time playing as Master Chief himself.

 

[Vasto]

Halo 4 is my all time favorite. Halo 5 is also really good to me but not as good as Halo 4.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

Story-Telling was rather bland. Prometheans are just the least inspired and fun Halo enemies ever.
Multiplayer-wise I really really liked both games. Halo 4 might be peak Halo versus so far.

Halo 3 was peak Halo.

 

[lock2k]

Fuck the Prometheans. Worst enemies ever.

Halo 4 and 5 would be considered good games if you strip them of the Halo franchise but compared to Bungie's games they are nothing but a sad attempt of achieving greatness.

Will gamepass the next one.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Fuck the Prometheans. Worst enemies ever.

Halo 4 and 5 would be considered good games if you strip them of the Halo franchise but compared to Bungie's games they are nothing but a sad attempt of achieving greatness.

Will gamepass the next one.

Pretty much this, like they'd be perfectly fine shooters if they weren't Halo games but it's such a pedigree, it's like judging Fallout 76 outside the spectrum of it being Fallout.

 

[MAtgS]

Cutting out local multi-player is the dumbest thing ever. My GF & I co-opped the entire series up until that game.

 

[-Arcadia-]

I think 4 is a good game. It’s just nowhere near a Halo-quality game.

From what I understand, 5 plays well, but has serious structural and campaign problems.

Remove Halo, and you’re probably left with two neat FPSes. But it doesn’t quite work like that.

 

[Kev Kev]

something something people love to hate things that are popular something something

they werent perfect, but they were very good games. they just got shit bc everyone loves to hate on halo. i had a fucking blast with all of them

 

[Mistershine.]

Agent Locke. Fuck that bitch ass motherfucker.

 

[Nikana]

I want to respond but I am scared....

I actually really like Halo 4 campaign but didn't like the multi. Halo 5 was the other way around.

TO me, it was growing pains of taking the franchise from the original creator to a new set. Yes a lot of talent moved with it, but the creative direction ended up being different and there seemed to be this need to have a new game every 2-3 years.

Microsoft seems of figured that out and has given Infinite a ton of time. We will find out before the years end it seems if that was the issue.

 

[Romulus]

It just felt exactly how you expect handing over a franchise to mostly new developers. Imo, it didnt even feel like halo anymore. The singleplayer levels and enemies were uninspired, the story was uninteresting, the new characters were bland, the multiplayer was average. Just a forgettable experience, yet somehow I remember Halo CE, 2, 3, and Reach, very well.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

It just felt exactly how you expect handing over a franchise to mostly new developers. Imo, it didnt even feel like halo anymore. The singleplayer levels and enemies were uninspired, the story was uninteresting, the new characters were bland, the multiplayer was average. Just a forgettable experience, yet somehow I remember Halo CE, 2, 3, and Reach, very well.

For me ODST is memorable even, probably the least of the entries prior to 343 but it had interesting wrinkles in the formula. My main memories of 4 are how disappointed I was, funny enough it's one of the few 360 games I still own a copy of.

 

[diffusionx]

Halo 4’s multiplayer took a bunch of shit from COD in terms of load outs and killstreaks. I actually really liked the Halo 4 multiplayer though, and I think if they just didn’t do the COD shit, it would have been much better received and have a much better rep. I think the single player is good though, I played it back to back with ODST earlier this year and enjoyed it a lot. It looks incredible too, maybe the best looking game on the Xbox 360 and still impressive in MCC.

Halo 5 is the reverse, it has solid multiplayer but the single player is awful. The story is terrible and MS‘ marketing was really deceptive, to the point where, I believe, they even sort of apologized after the game launched. It plays well enough though.

The problem is, in both instances, 343 seemed to show a lack of understanding for why people play Halo. Did they learn? Not sure.