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What's "gunplay"?

I agree with the general opinion about FEAR when it comes to gunplay. The gunplay in those games make the combat so satisfying I can see myself going through the game using only one or two weapons each time (though the shotgun is so awesome I can never bring myself to not use it :lol ). No game has made me feel more like a badass motherfucker than FEAR has.


Battlefield Bad Company both 1 & 2 also have great gunplay IMO. I've always enjoyed listening to the sound of the LMG's and sniper rifles in both games. It's only of the only games where I will go full auto and hip fire my M60 just because it feels so right. Also the gun models look top notch, and it's always a pleasure watching the reload animations for the various guns.
 
this thread isn't really gonna go anywhere until we actually agree upon definition of gunplay, until then it's just pretty circular with "x is the best".
 
In BDSM, gunplay is used to refer to the practice of including actual or sometimes simulated firearms into a scene. The motivations for this vary significantly among participants with some using it as another method to experience/control fear while others see the power of a weapon as a symbol for dominance since it has often meant just that in history.
 
EatChildren said:
The culminating feel of the design and presentation of shooting weapons in videogames. Its how they control, how they are animated, their impact effects, their damage values, the way enemies react to shots as well as avoiding shots, etc.

Gunplay is how the guns play. Bad gunplay usually involves weapons that feel weak, controls that are unresponsive, a lack of style and identity to weapon models and effects, and damage values are broken, plus other things.
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Great definition.

An example of bad gunplay I would provide is Far Cry 2. There is a great selection of weapons, and the effects they have on the environment is sometimes quite spectacular (you can burn fields of grass, cut down trees with machine gun fire, blow up huts with mortars, etc.)

However, the joypad controls come with a huge deadzone, making aiming a chore unless you use the game's laughable snap-to auto aim system. None of the weapons (sans the rocket launcher) use actual projectile physics, so as soon as you fire your gun, the bullet arrives where the cursor was, with no loss of effectiveness over distance. Sniper shotguns are the result. Enemies can take seemingly dozens of rounds of automatic weapon fire to all of their extremities except the head, even when not wearing protective body armor. This makes the weapons feel weak. Crippled enemies, instead of begging for their lives or simply bleeding out, will pump round after round of suicidal pistol ammo at you until you put them out of their misery. Because of the lack of tracer fire (and the lack of any HUD), it's often impossible to discern what direction you're being fired upon from. Being shot at breaks you out of scoped aiming - your enemies don't seem to have this problem. Enemy AI keys to your location once you've been spotted in an area. Even when you break line of sight (and their dialogue indicates as much), they will magically find you, even if you leave the area they were originally searching in, even in the cover of night. Enemy vehicles also spawn at random in between enemy bases, and use rubber banding speed to catch you even if you're in a vehicle traveling at top speed.

All of this combine to make a game where it is more cumbersome than fun to fight enemies. In other words, bad gunplay.

Legendary Warrior said:
Really? Like how?
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Easiest example would be that you lose health straight away (instead of suit armor) if you engage enemies while using Maximum Strength or Speed.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
An example of bad gunplay I would provide is Far Cry 2.
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Disagree completely. Loved the feel of the weapons in that game.

Gears of War has never felt very good to me. It feels like you are hosing enemies down with a water cannon than it does a machine gun due to the enemies not reacting significantly to 15 shots in a row. I still really like the game however.

Fear 2, Battlefield BC 2, Battlefield 1943, Frontlines, Timeshift, Half-Life 2, all have great feel. COD and Halo to a lesser extent, even though I adore Halo. Best COD for consistant feel for me was COD 2. Some weapons in MW1 and 2 are brilliant though.
 
Legendary Warrior said:
Really? Like how?
Click to expand...

It depends on the situation. Think of it this way - let's say, for example, I am looking down the scope with my Gauss far enough away to be unseen. If I'm in Armor or Speed modes, I'm punished for this by having increased weapon sway and decreased accuracy with the weapon. If I'm in Strength mode when taking fire while attempting to find cover, I'm punished for this by taking significant damage directly to my health. The whole core of this game is suit management. Pretty much every action you can perform in the game is going to draw back to the question of whether or not the player is thinking about what mode their suit is in. To do this for Cloak, you're forced to be mindful of discharging your weapon while the mode is active. It all draws back to encouraging the player to have at the front of their mind the concept of constantly changing their active mode.
 
it's a real word, it was not made up by videogame journalists, and it just means 'shooting.' i'm assuming it's derived from 'swordplay' (which is apparently a term for fencing rather swordfighting generally -- makes sense). hadn't consciously noticed how much it's used by gamers, and i bet the presence of 'play' has a lot of people thinking it's a piece of videogame jargon
 
I think of it as a feedback loop. The visual and sound effect of firing the gun, the impact it has on enemies and the environment, the feel of reloading, switching and picking up weapons.

Reach is an example of game with what I consider great gunplay. The simple act of shooting, switching weapons and reloading is fun, before any enemies are even introduced.

If the simple act of firing a gun isn't fun, then the game - if shooting is the primary mechanic - won't be fun. I don't think most shooters get the gunplay right.
 
m-w.com sez the first recorded use was in 1881, and i guess they COULD have been talking about halo, but it's not likely.

game journalists don't want to say 'the shooting in this game isn't much good,' because it doesn't sound like something the guy in the next cubicle would say, so they say 'the gunplay in this game is insufficiently visceral,' which means exactly the same thing
 
GhaleonEB said:
I think of it as a feedback loop. The visual and sound effect of firing the gun, the impact it has on enemies and the environment, the feel of reloading, switching and picking up weapons.

Reach is an example of game with what I consider great gunplay. The simple act of shooting, switching weapons and reloading is fun, before any enemies are even introduced.

If the simple act of firing a gun isn't fun, then the game - if shooting is the primary mechanic - won't be fun. I don't think most shooters get the gunplay right.
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the gunplay in reach was definitely an improvement on halo 3, which feels incredibly weak.
 
It's when a gun is used in the gameplay.

It's-whe--a gun is-us-d-in-the-ga---play-

I-'s-wh---- gun -s-us---in--h--ga--play --

--'s--h----- gun ---u----in----a--play -----

----h--------- gun --u---n---play ----------

----------------- gun ----play --------------

------------------- gunplay -----------------

:D
 
Ranger X said:
It's when a gun is used in the gameplay.

It's-whe--a gun is-us-d-in-the-ga---play-

I-'s-wh---- gun -s-us---in--h--ga--play --

--'s--h----- gun ---u----in----a--play -----

----h--------- gun --u---n---play ----------

----------------- gun ----play --------------

------------------- gunplay -----------------

:D
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So in other words it's redundant, unless the game is only full of cutscenes featuring guns instead.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
Easiest example would be that you lose health straight away (instead of suit armor) if you engage enemies while using Maximum Strength or Speed.
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It's the same for Cloak, right? The whole point of armor mode is that your suit power goes to armor.
Wallach said:
It depends on the situation. Think of it this way - let's say, for example, I am looking down the scope with my Gauss far enough away to be unseen. If I'm in Armor or Speed modes, I'm punished for this by having increased weapon sway and decreased accuracy with the weapon. If I'm in Strength mode when taking fire while attempting to find cover, I'm punished for this by taking significant damage directly to my health. The whole core of this game is suit management. Pretty much every action you can perform in the game is going to draw back to the question of whether or not the player is thinking about what mode their suit is in. To do this for Cloak, you're forced to be mindful of discharging your weapon while the mode is active. It all draws back to encouraging the player to have at the front of their mind the concept of constantly changing their active mode.
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What exactly does Strength mode affect, obviously aside from physical power? Is it just weapon accuracy, or is damage influenced too? I don't think I ever bothered to look it up.

Anyway, I see what you're talking about. I probably shouldn't have said anything.
 
NutJobJim said:
More shooters need gore like this.
It makes your gun feel like a real weapon and your bullets have impact, rather than most games where I feels like I'm shooting plastic bullets.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk7aTTnfPX8&feature=related

This shit is just fucked up. The attention to detail is crazy though. Soldier of Fortune is so good.

Here's some multiplayer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRM7KAzKybI&feature=related


Man I played the shit out of the multiplayer demo for like a month straight but never bought the game. I loved every second of it.
 
I can't give a firm definition of it, but I know that FEAR has the best I've ever seen, Doom 2 is pretty Damn good as well, and Borderlands and Metro 2033 jump to mind as bad examples of it (though I definitely enjoy both games a lot).

IMO the look, feel, and performance of the shotgun is the true test. Metro in particular has a terrible shotgun.
 
Huge, HUGE lack of Battlefield Bad Company 2 in this thread. Everything from the sound, to the recoil, to the meaty feeling of shooting a fully automatic weapon, to how bodies react feels so right.

Killzone 2 is also pretty good despite the fact that firing from the hip is a bit too effective. The muzzle flashes, and animation in there are SO good though.
 
Bfbc2 does feel great on consoles, but at times the bullets doesn't registers. That's the only con I can think of.

Killzone 2 the controls and auto aim/aim assist holds it back. Hopefully Killzone 3 fixes all that and add some recoil.

Any game with no recoil has horrible gunplay to me.
 
Net_Wrecker said:
Huge, HUGE lack of Battlefield Bad Company 2 in this thread. Everything from the sound, to the recoil, to the meaty feeling of shooting a fully automatic weapon, to how bodies react feels so right.
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The sound in BC2 is horrible, half the guns feel and sound like toy guns. It's got that source engine syndrome where you can't hear shit half the time. Compared to BF2, and 2142, bc2 is just lack luster, and the gun play isn't that great, nor is the vehicle combat. The only thing Bc2 does right is explosions.
 
Legendary Warrior said:
What exactly does Strength mode affect, obviously aside from physical power? Is it just weapon accuracy, or is damage influenced too? I don't think I ever bothered to look it up.
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It affects the weapon sway when aiming down the sights, and the effect of recoil besides increasing jump and melee strength. Speed increases movement speed, melee attack rate and reload speed (can also convert velocity into additional melee damage). Armor deflects damage by consuming power reserve and increases health regeneration rate.
 
vocab said:
The sound in BC2 is horrible, half the guns feel and sound like toy guns. It's got that source engine syndrome where you can't hear shit half the time. Compared to BF2, and 2142, bc2 is just lack luster, and the gun play isn't that great, nor is the vehicle combat. The only thing Bc2 does right is explosions.
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WAT.

You can't be serious. The only gun sound that's slightly "off" in BFBC2 is the silenced SMGs. The echos both in empty buildings and outside, the distant gunfire, the explosions, the sound of your own gun, etc. etc. are all the best I've heard, especially on War Tapes (I think that's what it's called) in the audio selection.

EDIT:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU99glzDQ6o&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfeH44GoUU8

C'mon now. Listen to the M95, M60, and MG3 especially.
 
Everything involving the act of shooting a weapon in a game. The way the game controls, the feel of the weapon in terms of impact on enemies/objects, how those enemies react both before and after, the particle effects, the way the gun is modeled, the way the gun shoots, the way the gun sounds, etc

FEAR is still the gold standard. It nails every single facet there and does them all with high quality. The feedback to the player is unmatched.
 
Net_Wrecker said:
WAT.

You can't be serious. The only gun sound that's slightly "off" in BFBC2 is the silenced SMGs. The echos both in empty buildings and outside, the distant gunfire, the explosions, the sound of your own gun, etc. etc. are all the best I've heard, especially on War Tapes (I think that's what it's called) in the audio selection.

EDIT:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU99glzDQ6o&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfeH44GoUU8

C'mon now. Listen to the M95, M60, and MG3 especially.
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No, I am being serious. I hate the games lack of directional sound in this game. Wartapes is lulz. Sounds like someone shooting a gun at the Whispering Gallery. Echoes like crazy, and everything sounds wrong.
 
Zeliard said:
Everything involving the act of shooting a weapon in a game. The way the game controls, the feel of the weapon in terms of impact on enemies/objects, how those enemies react both before and after, the particle effects, the way the gun is modeled, the way the gun shoots, the way the gun sounds, etc

FEAR is still the gold standard. It nails every single facet there and does them all with high quality. The feedback to the player is unmatched.
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I agree. Nothing since has made me feel as powerful as F.E.A.R

I've always been a fan of ID games. Quake 1 rocket launcher still feels fantastic.
 
Poimandres said:
I agree. Nothing since has made me feel as powerful as F.E.A.R

I've always been a fan of ID games. Quake 1 rocket launcher still feels fantastic.
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The Quake 1 rocket launcher is the single greatest weapon in the history of FPS. It simply is.

id have always been amazing at making their guns feel great, though. The railgun in Quake 2 was also magical, even though Q2 as a whole disappointed me relative to Q1.

Not to mention the Doom 2 super shotgun. God I hope that Rage lives up.
 
Is FEAR 2 as good as the first game? I played it about 3-4 times because the gameplay was so great and now I'm having that hankering again.
 
JB1981 said:
For TPS I prefer Gears.
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Frankly it's the worst part of Gears. A great game with awful gunplay. The guns have no impact, it takes a ton of bullets to bring someone down, there is little to no requirement for fire control, and aiming has little importance outside of select weapons. The sounds of the machine guns are also pretty pathetic, makes your guns feel like you are firing spit wads, along with little hit response from enemies.
 
BattleMonkey said:
Frankly it's the worst part of Gears. A great game with awful gunplay. The guns have no impact, it takes a ton of bullets to bring someone down, there is little to no requirement for fire control, and aiming has little importance outside of select weapons. The sounds of the machine guns are also pretty pathetic, makes your guns feel like you are firing spit wads, along with little hit response from enemies.
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Enemies being bullet sponges is the whole point of the game. The game is balanced around having to spend most of the clip to bring down a single enemy.
 
Lostconfused said:
Enemies being bullet sponges is the whole point of the game. The game is balanced around having to spend most of the clip to bring down a single enemy.
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I've never played gears, but bullet sponge enemies are rarely if ever fun.
 
Chairman Yang said:
I've heard the term a lot, but I'm still not sure exactly what it means. When people say Mass Effect or Alpha Protocol have bad gunplay, or that Uncharted 2 or Halo Reach have good gunplay, for example, are they referring to the controls? The feel and sounds of the weapons? The absence or presence of various small glitches? Or something else?
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Yes, it's the feel of the act of shooting, and generally includes how enemies respond to being shot.

Not many games get it right. In my experience, the only games that have got it right (not including PC, I haven't played PC games since I was 22 or so):

- Halo
- Call of Duty
- Black
- Resident Evil
- Gears of War
- Resistance (JUST scraped in)
- Doom 1/2
- Metal Gear Solid

All the rest are generally missing that....something.

The game that really bothered me the most was Splinter Cell. The guns feel ok, but the enemies just simply DON'T react to being shot at all, and it strips away the feeling of shooting anything.

Killzone 2 would have been ok, if carrying your gun didn't feel like you were carrying 18 cinder blocks.
 
DaBuddaDa said:
It's a bullshit and arbitrary made up journalist term meaning "how much a particular shooter feels like Call of Duty."
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I know that's not entirely fair, but that's how I usually feel when I hear people talking about it most of the time.

I keep hearing, for instance, that Half-Life 2's gunplay is weak.

I honestly don't give a shit, because the game is fun.

If people want realistic guns in every game, then the gunshots should be louder than anything else, drowning out voices, background music, everything, and leave the character temporarily half deaf after every exchange. Muted gunshot sound effects aren't always a bad thing.

As you said, I think it's entirely subjective, and it's tossed around far too frequently.
 
aeolist said:
Is FEAR 2 as good as the first game? I played it about 3-4 times because the gameplay was so great and now I'm having that hankering again.
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FEAR 2 is pretty damn close. Monolith certainly didn't lose their touch completely. The SMG in 2 feels sublime.
 
This thread is proof that there is no definition of "Good" Gunplay.

Entirely based on an individual's preference.
 
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