BruiserBear
Banned
They were ultimately very close in power, with the PS3 probably having a slight edge overall. The 360 had a better GPU and a little more unified memory, while the PS3 had a much better CPU.
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What's the best for Xbox One .. lower graphics or lower resolution ?
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They were ultimately very close in power, with the PS3 probably having a slight edge overall. The 360 had a better GPU and a little more unified memory, while the PS3 had a much better CPU.
buckeye4life
Banned
Not sure how Ryse looks better than anything on Ps4 ? If you visit the next gen screenshot thread, Ryse comes in 3rd behind Killzone, and Assasins Creed. Both these games are crystal clear, where as Ryse looks to have a vaseline smear on the image.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=716795&page=90
The whole graphics debate is kinda wierd. The thing is, when the resolution is lower, and the effects are toned down on the Xbone compared to the PS4, that is a symptom - and it is just one of a whole lot of potential symptoms we could see in the future.
The problem for the Xbone is that the PS4 is more powerful. It's that simple.
Sure, Ryse looks and runs great. Ryse would look and run better on the PS4 than on the Xbone if it was optimized for both consoles. The PS4 is more powerful. It's not the end of the world, but it is what it is...
At launch thw power gap has translated into better resolution and better effects on the PS4. It ould also translate into more AI scripts running at the same time, better physics, larger open world games with more happening in them at the same time - and lots of other gameplay related stuff.
The problem for the Xbone is that the PS4 is more powerful. It's that simple.
Sure, Ryse looks and runs great. Ryse would look and run better on the PS4 than on the Xbone if it was optimized for both consoles. The PS4 is more powerful. It's not the end of the world, but it is what it is...
At launch thw power gap has translated into better resolution and better effects on the PS4. It ould also translate into more AI scripts running at the same time, better physics, larger open world games with more happening in them at the same time - and lots of other gameplay related stuff.
If by third you mean the amount of screenshots (and circle jerk), yeah, you're right.
Clockwork5
Member
Reasonable price for 4k TV in 5 years? Sure.
Reasonable price for a console capable of 4k/60 fps graphics in 5 years? Not likely.
1080p has been standard on the cheapest of TVs for years now.
buckeye4life
Banned
Now I mean quality of image, Ryse looks blurry when viewing these other 2 games side by side
Essentially zero - technically the PS3 was more powerful from a computational standpoint which was why it saw so much use being strapped together by researchers but from a videogame perspective it was essentially a draw with PS3 having marginally more power if coded for properly.
The main elements were that both had 512 MB memory but different designs with the memory being split in PS3, the 360 had a smaller OS footprint freeing up more resource for developers and a stronger GPU, the 360 was easier to develop for and had better SDK (particularly early on) and finally the PS3 had Cell and allowed better "coding to the metal".
Taking the above together the end result was that the PS3 was harder to code for and hence for a fair time multi-plats looked significantly better on 360 (and I do mean significantly) then things started to balance out as developers were able to leverage Cell to where we ended which was most multi-plat games being either at parity or only slightly better on 360 and PS3 full exclusives actually outstripping best performing 360 titles a notch (not much but enough to show that fully leveraged the Cell did in fact give the PS3 a slight edge even with the 360s own advantages).
It's important to understand that PS3 / 360 were essentially identical but PS3 had design choices that greatly slowed developers in achieving same results as they did on 360 hence why the PS3 was able to "catch up" overall and even out-perform the 360 a little with 1st party exclusives.
This gen it's totally different though.
- The PS4 has an easy to develop for architecture which I'd argue is easier to code for than XB1 but would accept a worst case view that they're equally easy to develop for - this is a big change from last gen
- The PS4 has a much clearer and stronger power advantage vs XB1 and there is no Cell like element of XB1 that over time will allow for a claw back (there really doesn't seem to be from the known specs and teardowns)
- The PS4 allows better coding to the hardware than XB1
- The PS4 SDK actually seems ahead of XB1 at this point
Taking all the above into consideration plus what we saw last gen its pretty clear that anyone with computing / coding experience (as I do for example) would expect PS4 to start slightly ahead and likely move further ahead in terms of graphical differences.
This will vary by title of course.
- Indie and smaller titles should look/perform identical on each for example as such games will likely deliver 1080p/60fps on each with all effects the same.
- Most mid level multi-plats will also likely be either identical or only show slight benefit on PS4 (maybe a small frame rate advantage)
- Bigger titles and graphically intense titles should show more significant gaps as we're seeing right now with ACIV, BF4 and CoD all looking/performing noticeably better (ignoring non-hardware specific issues with poor code in the titles).
- Top tier PS4 exclusives will almost certainly show significant differences going forward (Killzone for example was a launch title that started using 4GB memory rather than the final 8GB even though at 1080p with terrific effects its arguably technically the best launch title and it's pretty obvious big Naughty Dog titles, later GG titles and Santa Monica titles are going to be spectacular as they were last gen when titles like Uncharted, Killzone and God of War led the visual performance race).
So unlike last gen there is no sign of anything (other than normal SDK improvements and OS and driver improvements which PS4 will see too) to suggest any way for XB1 to catch up as the console is factually weaker not essentially the same just harder to code for - hence why I don't believe the XB1 will "catch up" the same way the PS3 did simply that it will improve in line with PS4 with a gap always remaining in capability.
But I'm going to make this my last post as XB1/PS4 is arguably off topic and I've already given my direct response to the OP in terms of my preference for balancing resolution with graphical effects and I don't want to get dragged into another elongated spec discussion as too many people simply can't accept the factual reality of the new Sony and MS console's specifications, design choices and capabilities specific to playing games.
Caayn
Member
I think that you just might have pointed a very important point, with the bold part, that is unjustly pushed aside many times.
At the beginning of the previous generation those consoles were supposed to be able to handle 1080p(with the exception that 1080p was later unlocked for devs(Xbox 360)) And thank god that devs didn't went with native 1080p last generation, otherwise games such as TLOU, Beyond, HR, Halo 4 and uncharted would've never existed in the form as they do now. They would look a lot more ugly overall, as there would've been heavy compromises to the lighting/shadows/polygon count/etc to be able to achieve that resolution.
I'm hoping that devs compromise on the resolution first, with a minimum of 900p after the first generation of games. Otherwise we will get games like Ridge Racer 7, running at 1080p but at the cost of to many other things.
a cannot think of one way to spin the outcome of this thread any more. gratulation. you should work at ms.
It's a shame this thread devolved into console wars.
PS4 is around 50% more powerful guys there is no way to spin this. PS4 owners don't go around saying their consoles are more powerful than PC's, Xbox owners should take heed.
This thread is about what to give up first in graphics, and my vote is for resolution, despite that I really enjoy 1080p on the PS4 on a 70" screen from 8' away.
PS4 is around 50% more powerful guys there is no way to spin this. PS4 owners don't go around saying their consoles are more powerful than PC's, Xbox owners should take heed.
This thread is about what to give up first in graphics, and my vote is for resolution, despite that I really enjoy 1080p on the PS4 on a 70" screen from 8' away.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Right, because of improvements and tradeoffs made on both platform versions to meet in a happy middle for reasons of parity so that they don't endanger sales of any version they spend time/money/manpower on. The underlying differences in each platform didn't go away and sometimes still shone through, but I expect the same drawing together of muliplats this gen. The OP and many others believe in an across-the-board difference that will continue to manifest itself simply due to specs, but multiplatform developers have consistently strived for equality long before now...if not right from the first versions, then certainly with subsequent releases. Why believe that, once again, there will be this yawning and unbridgeable divide in the finished product? Hell, we've also got some believing that the difference will somehow widen between versions...which I cannot recall as ever actually happening in the history of console multiplats, but there's always a possibility. We've had endless arguments pointing to specs before now and it still did not stop the final product from defying expectations drawn from them. I see no reason to fully buy-in with the spec argument when it's been ignored by released product time and time again. Let's see how things look in a year or three instead of presuming that launch will accurately indicate later performance spanning years that will undoubtedly see greater, more effective utilization.
Overall, difference is about 50 GFLOPS in PS3 favor. But this time, difference is over 600 GFLOPS in PS4 favor.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Yes, PS4's GPU has additional CUs, ROPs, a more granular compute pipeline (8x8=64 microthreads for compute, plus an additional dedicated pre-compute scheduler), etc.
The PS4's memory subsystem is also much closer to a true hUMA setup than X1's is (i.e., X1 has a disparate pools of memory--8 GB DDR3 main system RAM + 32 MB ESRAM for the GPU), thus PS4 can leverage the volatile flag to greater effect. This lessens the need for the CPU and GPU to copy and paste data each has worked on from one memory address to another.
O rly? Its clear? From what? Launch games? I think its obvious the xb1 multiat versions will improve as we move away from the launch window. Its not like the differences now are great, in fact they are hardly noticeable. Future xb1 games wont have to sacrifice anything that the ps4 variants dont have to. This is a dumb and highly biased discussion to even have , especially not even a month removed from launch.
Ryse and quantum break look better than anything ps4 has shown so far, so this "opinion" of the op isnt even justifiable yet.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Let's not go this route again. It's common knowledge now that multiplatform games will nearly always have an advantage on PS4 like X360 nearly always had an advantage over PS3 last gen.
It's time to move on now. If you bought X1 for superior multiplatform ports from a graphics and performance perspective, you clearly purchased the wrong system.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Sony has big-screen 4K TV's for under $3,000 now.
http://store.sony.com/55-xbr-4k-tvs/cat-27-catid-Collections-55-Inch-XBR-TVs
I'd suspect we'll see them under $2,000 in the next 18 months, tops. And once you see one of these in action, you just can't go back.
Current multiplatform situation on the XB1 vs. PS4 is quite dire with COD, BF4 and AC4, where is this enforced parity? Only cross-gen MP games like NFS and FIFA with much less demanding graphics don't suffer (too much) on the Xbone. Do not forget that multiplatform developers are competing with exclusives on a platform so it's their best interest to try to use the strengths of each platform as much as possible.
KOMANI
KOMANI
there's one more thing. But before I blow your mind, I would like to state, I agree with you... Ryse is the best looking game out right now for consoles.
Ryse's cutscenes are pre-rendered, unlike Killzone's. And here's a bonus tidbit... These 2 games, are among the few games developed by first party. To solely base your opinion on 1 first party launch game to another is premature. Wait about a year, and see which console has the best looking games. That gives other first parties time to develop games.
I know this will fall on deaf years because
1. You're insane.
2. You decided not to google "NSFW", and instead asked what it was in a forum full of game enthusiasts who will rip you apart if you say something stupid.
KOMANI
KOMANI
exactly. Oh, I feel another triple post coming...
BruiserBear
Banned
The differences are already pretty significant for some of these bigger multiplatform games.
MightyHedgehog
Member
The move toward parity and more competitive graphic quality will happen over time, just it has before. MS will work with their third parties to improve upon the "dire" situation by delivering better software and solutions, just like Sony would and does. I mean, where's the stronger argument that details why this age-old dynamic fails to return in this generation? Games have not become cheaper, less complicated to make and there are very few big players left at the table who would risk hobbling one-half or one-third of their AAA investment. Whatever improvement and/or tradeoffs they make, it will be with an eye toward keeping the perception of high qualty as high as possible on the big software movers. These aren't PCs where, by lack of more serious upfront costs, they can afford to just fart out a barebones port that doesn't have the pressure to deliver that the original console release had. Even in case where a AAA multiplat hits everything in the same window, I don't see PS4 & PC making up enough to treat X1 so lightly, so effort will be there to ensure reasonably achieveable parity.
MightyHedgehog
Member
As was the case for many PS360 titles in the early going. That situation changed despite the hardware staying the same.
Fox_Mulder
Rockefellers. Skull and Bones. Microsoft. Al Qaeda. A Cabal of Bankers. The melting point of steel. What do these things have in common? Wake up sheeple, the landfill wasn't even REAL!
geordiemp
Member
looks like you going to need a few more rounds of digital foundry when next round of games hit.
The difference in specs and first round of multiplat games is pretty clear, but you can still cling on to hope.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Thanks for setting me straight.
SirVilhelm
Banned
Of course it did, just looking at the thread title you know what to expect
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Sharpening filter is winning it for MS.
fatgamecat
Member
PS3 was a slight bit more powerful than 360, but a nightmare to code for. PS4 is both relatively more powerful than the PS3-360 hardware gap, and is easier to code for.
If devs take advantage of PS4's extra power, they can go 720-900, 900-1080, add more framerate, or more visual effects. If Ryse were ported to PS4 they could increase the res to 1080p with no penalty.
If devs take advantage of PS4's extra power, they can go 720-900, 900-1080, add more framerate, or more visual effects. If Ryse were ported to PS4 they could increase the res to 1080p with no penalty.
Should had played it in 720p.:/
Post of the year.
BruiserBear
Banned
Yes, and someone already did a very detailed post explaining why that won't be the case this gen, and I guess you chose to ignore it. But here it is again if you'd like to know the truth about this topic.
Zombie James
Banned
The hardware gap between the PS4 and Xbone is much larger than it was between the PS3 and 360.
BotoxAgent
Member
After playing Killzone and Ryse, i feel the PS4 can make Ryse run at 1080p at a much more stable framerate without a doubt.
SirVilhelm
Banned
How do you figure? I remember the PS3 supposed to be a huge game changer in the gaming world. It was a supercomputer that would crush the 360. I remember reading all those articles. Now its super downplayed like non of that happened. Interesting.
BruiserBear
Banned
That was just Sony blowing marketing smoke at everyone. The CELL was a very unknown quantity in 2005/2006. No one really knew exactly how impactful it would be on videogames. The consoles of this era and before were often custom built designs, with unique attributes, and specialties.
The PS4/XB1 are basically normal gaming PCs. They're using CPUs and GPUs that are nearly identical to known gaming PCs people are using right now. So all sorts of info exists telling us almost exactly how powerful they are. There are no secrets with these new consoles. It's all pretty much known, and was known about 9 months ago.
Unlike the PS3/360 situation where both consoles had similar hardware power but the PS3's was much harder to utilize, XB1 has around 40-50% less power than PS4. No amount of optimization is going to make up for that difference, since the optimizations will also apply to the PS4 versions given the similar architecture.
People with XB1's aren't going to boycott games because they look worse than the PS4 version, just like PS4 owners won't boycott games because their version looks worse than the PC version. People will buy games for the platform(s) they own and where their friends are at. We already see it in the NPD software sales, COD for XB1 is 720p but still sells proportionally well.
This. Native resolution >>> Upscaled resolution.
velociraptor
Junior Member
Nothing is worse than having a blur on your TV screen. This is what it feels like when I play Killzone Shadowfall's Multiplayer. I hate to say it, but COD Ghosts looks more appealing. The funny thing is that Killzone actually runs at 1080p but it looks like a blurry mess thanks to FXAA. Now imagine if you have a game running at 720p. To say it would look disastrous is not an understatement. Native resolution is so fucking important.
i dont know if this has been brought up, it should have been, but the topic really shouldn't be limited to xbox one and multiplats...
EDIT: vvv right, at the expense of putting the power towards other things. to better explain myself, i think that even ps4 games should target lower resolutions to push other aspects even further. i guess its not really appropriate for this specific thread on multiplats, but in a more general sense its related.
EDIT: vvv right, at the expense of putting the power towards other things. to better explain myself, i think that even ps4 games should target lower resolutions to push other aspects even further. i guess its not really appropriate for this specific thread on multiplats, but in a more general sense its related.
BruiserBear
Banned
I believe there is only ONE PS4 game that doesn't run at 1080p.
Future PhaZe
Member
900p is the lowest you should go--after that you'd better start dropping geometry, effects, lighting, whatever.
720p is simply criminal for "next gen" consoles.
720p is simply criminal for "next gen" consoles.
Yep, just BF4 so far.
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