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What's the best id tech engine game? (excluding id software's own games)
- Thread starter Maxey
- Start date
Maxey
Member
Eh, the first one for sure, maybe even 2 but starting from CoD4 the engine started to change too much to still be eligible here.
chronic_archaic
Member
Call of Duty doesn't really count except the first game. Every one after is using modified engines up until Advanced Warfare where the id tech roots are completely gone.
Wolfenstein The New Order
Wolfenstein The New Order
I wouldn't say so. While you're technically correct, the version of the engine used for the original game has been iterated upon numerous times since its debut all the way back in 2003. I'd be surprised if there were more than a faint trace of id Tech left, plus the engine is no longer referred to as id Tech but rather the IW Engine.
Oh, I don't doubt it's heavily modified but I presume the roots are still there.
I doubt it. An engine is a set of tools as opposed to any single thing and I'd wager everything has been replaced at this point.
Edit: It looks like CoD game data is still packed into .pak files, but file system similarities are exactly the sort of thing I was referring to with "faint traces".
potatohead
Member
Original doom? If we're talking all id tech how can the answer be anything else.
Oh except id I c
Soldier of fortune 1 is pretty sick so is wolf tno can't wait for wolf 2
Oh except id I c
Soldier of fortune 1 is pretty sick so is wolf tno can't wait for wolf 2
Maxey
Member
Holy shit, I keep forgetting HL1 was based on a id tech1/2 hybrid codebase, lol.
I may need to change my answer.
TacticalHotdog
Member
It still uses the old iDtech 3 debug font and text. I think they also use Radiant for level development
chronic_archaic
Member
Ghosts was the last game to have any traces of it left. I'm fairly sure this is why modders can't import assets from newer games into older ones. There's a modded MW2 for PC that has weapons and maps from COD4 - Ghosts but not anything newer.
That would be my choice too. Just a shame that it ended unfinished.
It still uses the old iDtech 3 debug font and text. I think they also use Radiant for level development
I didn't discount the possibility of there still being remnants of id Tech in the engine. The exact opposite, in fact.
Comrade Crunch
Member
Wolfenstien: The New Order
Im hoping Wolfenstien: The New Colossus uses Idtech 6 since its a really impressive engine.
Im hoping Wolfenstien: The New Colossus uses Idtech 6 since its a really impressive engine.
Heavily modified or not, even the latest CoD games still exhibit the same physics issues/bugs from id tech, which ironically Q3A and Quake Live fixed, but at that point CoD was a console cash cow already so there wasn't any real point fixing them - IW basically capped MW2 to 91 'fps' on PC and called it a day.
More reading on the framerate/physics relationship:
http://wiki.modsrepository.com/index.php/Call_of_Duty_:_A_Study_on_FPS
edit: another - https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/246033-truth-about-91-fps-in-the-new-call-of-duty/
On a purely technical and business point of view, however, JaseC is right - I doubt CoD studios get engine support from id anymore, for example, since id wouldn't know the majority of the changes made to the engine since the first CoD game, or even prior.
From first link above: (sorry dark skin users)
More reading on the framerate/physics relationship:
http://wiki.modsrepository.com/index.php/Call_of_Duty_:_A_Study_on_FPS
edit: another - https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/246033-truth-about-91-fps-in-the-new-call-of-duty/
On a purely technical and business point of view, however, JaseC is right - I doubt CoD studios get engine support from id anymore, for example, since id wouldn't know the majority of the changes made to the engine since the first CoD game, or even prior.
From first link above: (sorry dark skin users)
Maxey
Member
God me too, if only because I don't want any more games/devs to work with the dumpster fire of an engine that idtech 5 was.
Maxey
Member
Well, hopefully they improve the hell out of it and bring it more in line with a proper current gen engine.
CertifiedFP
Member
"No true Scotsman!!!"
Modified Id Tech is still Id Tech. Same is true for the "Void Engine". Even the Source Engine is full of Id Tech 2's major trappings to this day. And of course, the "Creation Engine" is still Gamebryo, even with a billion and one modifications to it.
Semantics like this (And other factors pertaining to the fall of Id Tech from its once lofty position of being the FPS engine) are exactly why Epic mandates that any derivative of Unreal, no matter how infinitely removed from the original licensed code, is still referred to as Unreal. See "Silicon Knights Engine".
But anyway, the Cawwadoody games are hardly the best games using the Id Tech family of engines...
So I'll say... Dishonored 2, as probably the single most unique game to use Id Tech - Given that the rest of the list of Id Tech games is largely composed of FPSes, FPSes, and more FPSes. Also I find it hilariously ironic that it's a sequel that transitioned from Unreal to Id Tech - in light of the fact that historically, game sequels transitioned from Id Tech to Unreal after Id completely shit the bed with Id Tech 4.
Oh, I'm aware. I just feel that if an engine is far more bespoke than original design -- which the IW Engine undoubtedly is, and then some -- then it seems a little inappropriate to consider those games valid examples of the engine the developer has mostly replaced. I don't think that's an unreasonable position, though I do agree the matter of what constitutes an actual Engine A game is a trivial one and not particularly important when the purpose of the discussion is to highlight great games.
KodeAndGame
Member
I'd like to take a moment to shout out the excellent Quadrilateral Cowboy. Not to mention other Blendo games for that matter.
CertifiedFP
Member
Honestly, you're only proving my point further about Id Software's (And more importantly, John Carmack's) complete naivety and lack of business acumen that led to them being bought by Bethesda in order to survive instead of being an independent studio able to be sustained by licensing Id Tech.
Like, seriously, these guys had the entire FPS genre at their fingertips with the definitive FPS engine, but then they gave a bunch of guys lifetime licenses to their engine and the freedom to modify it as they wish and then redistribute it (Best demonstrated with the Source Engine), and then when Id Tech 4 came along completely screwed up and gave their licensees no reason to upgrade to a new version full of a bunch of albatrosses and other technological gimmicks that have aged poorly, resulting in the once non-factor Epic suddenly eating their lunch with Unreal 2, as anyone looking for an engine upgrade went to Unreal instead of IT4 - And anyone who didn't make that switch already had a heavily modified and upgraded version of IT2 or 3 that they had no need to renew licensing for.
[Sound of Tim Sweeny laughing maniacally in the distance over how he yoinked the market for FPS engines out from under Id's feet so completely and thoroughly in the space of only five years.]
Maxey
Member
To be fair, yeah, my intention was to talk about games using engine builds not too far away from the original code.
Call of Duty devs kept changing the code with each new game, to the point where calling the most recent entries idtech based games is the equivalent of saying that the Bugatti Veyron is based on the technology of the Ford Model T.
Technically you can say it's correct but c'mon, they're worlds apart in terms of refinement and design by now.
Call of Duty devs kept changing the code with each new game, to the point where calling the most recent entries idtech based games is the equivalent of saying that the Bugatti Veyron is based on the technology of the Ford Model T.
Technically you can say it's correct but c'mon, they're worlds apart in terms of refinement and design by now.
I wasn't trying to dispute you on that. As we're in a thread that asks "What is the best non-id id Tech game?", I was weighing in on how I feel the question should be contextualised.
epeternally
Member
Wolfenstein The New Order is probably the correct answer. That game was ten times as good as it had any real right to be. I'm also quite partial to Heretic. Hexen was never as much fun for me, but I loved the level design and fantasy weapons of Heretic. Not as good of a game as Doom by any means but still rock solid.
CertifiedFP
Member
In all respects, this thread is the perfect context for this topic considering the fact that there's semantics going on as to what counts and doesn't count as Id Tech.
This is the kind of question that Unreal Engine will never have to deal with. And, on another hand, it's a question that CryEngine is on the verge of facing as Crytek flails around in its death-spiral giving lifetime no-restrictions licenses to CryEngine's code to anyone who can bail them out for another few months (IE: "Lumberyard Engine")
nephilimdj
Member
ET:quake wars (splash damage) is still impressive, even if aged badly in graphics.
We're pulling this thread off track as the OP has clarified what he meant. But just to be clear: I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, and, to reiterate my previous post, I'm not saying my view on what constitutes an id Tech game within the context of this thread would be the same if we were instead discussing the business of engine licensing.
StrategyFan
Member
probably warsow because quake is kind of flawless and a quake clone can't really be much worse than that
if it has to be a 'new' game, maybe quake wars. greatest team-based objective shooter
if it has to be a 'new' game, maybe quake wars. greatest team-based objective shooter
ID tech 5 runs like shit on AMD hardware even though both the Xbox One and PS4 have AMD GPUs. I wouldn't call it the right answer.
Maxey
Member
It's about the quality of the game itself.
StrategyFan
Member
not the best game, but probably the coolest game
it came in a cereal box
it came in a cereal box
Multiplayer - Probably Wolfenstein Enemy Territory. Loved that game. Splash Damage never quite captured that magic again.
Singleplayer - Half-Life I guess?
Nostalgia - Hexen II multiplayer, assassin max level weapon finisher... CHAINS EVERYWHERE!!!!
Bonus Nostalgia - Soldier of Fortune II MP demo. For some reason I played the shit out of this. Still remember the barrel exploit people would keep using. Hilarious.
Extra Bonus Nostalgia - Doom 3 looked super amazing for the time. Lighting and shading was off the charts.
Singleplayer - Half-Life I guess?
Nostalgia - Hexen II multiplayer, assassin max level weapon finisher... CHAINS EVERYWHERE!!!!
Bonus Nostalgia - Soldier of Fortune II MP demo. For some reason I played the shit out of this. Still remember the barrel exploit people would keep using. Hilarious.
Extra Bonus Nostalgia - Doom 3 looked super amazing for the time. Lighting and shading was off the charts.
thepenguin55
Member
OG Prey used idTech, right? I'm guessing idTech 3?
Minus the not great Native American story stuff the original Prey was pretty great.
EDIT: It used idTech 4
Minus the not great Native American story stuff the original Prey was pretty great.
EDIT: It used idTech 4
Deadpool_X
Banned
Heretic, no doubt.
Maxey
Member
Good list.
What's up with Heretic II? I remember that game coming out, getting alright reviews and then just vanishing into obscurity.
That game used id tech 2 and was a third person game, which was kind of a uncommon thing at the time, before game engines became more versatile instead of being built for a specific genre or perspective.
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