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[Ivan Amiibo]

want to know how GAF feels about this.

you couldn't predict what would happen beforehand?

 

[Ray Wonder]

The line is when one group criticizes another group for something, takes it, uses it, and suddenly that "something" becomes acceptable.

The ignorance in this thread is so surprising.

It's not that I don't have this in my mind. It's when people label something as culture appropriation and it doesn't include the epiphany of acceptance.

People say Iggy Azalea is a very big culture appropriation offender, but I haven't seen anyone saying that rap is more acceptable because she does it.

 

[diffusionx]

What if you're a white girl and you want to express "yourself" by wearing curly hair or putting it in braids? Because that's not okay according to a lot of people.

a lot of dumb people

 

[Kinitari]

you couldn't predict what would happen beforehand?

This is a good discussion with a lot of opinions, and people are being more civil than usual, straight up win to me so far.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

The line is when what is appropriated by another culture lacks the reverence or respect for its original culture. Snatching pieces off without any awareness for or understanding of where it came from, how its viewed and valued inside the culture from which it originates.

 

[Fuchsdh]

By that logic there's nothing wrong the RedSkins logo and the Tomahawk Chop then Fuchsdh.

Would certainly seem that way. But again, I'm not proposing this definition, I'm saying that it doesn't work to answer the OP's question of where the line is. Even as a general rule it isn't workable, or accurately capture what people commonly consider cultural appropriation.*

*Although I haven't ever heard anyone before you put the Redskins in the "appropriation" bucket. People who want to get rid of the name straight-up say it's racist.

 

[xKilltheMx]

It's not that I don't have this in my mind. It's when people label something as culture appropriation and it doesn't include the epiphany of acceptance.

People say Iggy Azalea is a very big culture appropriation offender, but I haven't seen anyone saying that rap is more acceptable because she does it.

I've never heard that, more like she's blackfacing it up.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Now I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert. The concept is relatively new to me. But I believe that the following example from my own life would be considered appropriation:

In high school I liked to listen to underground hip-hop, particular that which was coming out of New York and Philly. I'm not from either of those places. I've never even been to either of those places. I'm also white and from an almost rural suburb. You could probably surmise what the primary demographic was for the artists and performers I was listening to. Furthermore a lot of the content had to do with struggling in the inner-city, tension with local law enforcement, etc. Nothing my classmates and I had any actual experience of. Anyway, all that above up to now alone isn't appropriation per se; here's where it comes in ...

While it was acceptable and seen as 'cool' for me to listen, share, and introduce this music to my classmates, the same could not have been said if I were instead a black person who originally came from Philly or New York (or wherever really). Their first thoughts would have no longer been "oh cool this kid has some new music to listen to". Instead it would have been "ugh, look at this black kid acting like a thug". I know this because I heard those racist sentiments on the daily seeing as the town was at least 95% white. I'm even ashamed to say I myself was likely guilty of similar thoughts at the time. Basically the color of my skin afforded me the opportunity to share music from a different culture/region with my peers that would have otherwise been ignored. Not only that but I got to take advantage of it as a means to increase social status among the same peers.

 

[LucidMomentum]

It's not that I don't have this in my mind. It's when people label something as culture appropriation and it doesn't include the epiphany of acceptance.

People say Iggy Azalea is a very big culture appropriation offender, but I haven't seen anyone saying that rap is more acceptable because she does it.

Two of the bigger examples in recent memory on GAF were the women's afro thread and the Macklemore comments.

For example, if a girl wants curly hair that's fine. When a fashion mag says "hey look at this NEW TREND, the afro! Isn't it stylish? You can have one too!" when for years black women in the workplace were considered unprofessional for having the same hair style naturally, that's appropriation.

Tex-Mex is fine. Calling tex-mex the epitome of Mexican cuisine is appropriation.

Enjoying Macklemore is fine. Saying he's the "only rapper with something to say" when other black rappers have been saying relevant things for years is appropriation.

The Kimono exhibit? That was fine, even if people complained. There was no appropriation, just a way for people to learn what the Kimono is and how to put one on. Saying it's the new fashion craze because Americans picked it up, now that would be appropriation.

It's basically the cultural / racial equivalent of "You made this? No, I made this."

Now I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert. The concept is relatively new to me. But I believe that the following example from my own life would be considered appropriation:

In high school I liked to listen to underground hip-hop, particular that which was coming out of New York and Philly. I'm not from either of those places. I've never even been to either of those places. I'm also white and from an almost rural suburb. You could probably surmise what the primary demographic was for the artists and performers I was listening to. Furthermore a lot of the content had to do with struggling in the inner-city, tension with local law enforcement, etc. Nothing my classmates and I had any actual experience of. Anyway, all that above up to now alone isn't appropriation per se; here's where it comes in ...

While it was acceptable and seen as 'cool' for me to listen, share, and introduce this music to my classmates, the same could not have been said if I were instead a black person who originally came from Philly or New York (or wherever really). Their first thoughts would have no longer been "oh cool this kid has some new music to listen to". Instead it would have been "ugh, look at this black kid acting like a thug". I know this because I heard those racist sentiments on the daily seeing as the town was at least 95% white. I'm even ashamed to say I myself was likely guilty of similar thoughts at the time. Basically the color of my skin afforded me the opportunity to share music with my peers which they would have otherwise ignored. Not only that but I got to take advantage of it as a means to increase social status among the same peers.

Great example. Of course like you said, everyone will have a differing opinion on what is and isn't appropriation, which makes it difficult.

 

[SmokyDave]

Love the album Regatta de Blanc by The Police. I'm glad this stupid concept of 'cultural appropriation' didn't exist when it came out.

Race and racism was a huge topic in UK music around that time (1979). Look up The Specials, Rock Against Racism, and the whole ska punk stuff.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

It's not that I don't have this in my mind. It's when people label something as culture appropriation and it doesn't include the epiphany of acceptance.

People say Iggy Azalea is a very big culture appropriation offender, but I haven't seen anyone saying that rap is more acceptable because she does it.

I think some would argue that she makes rap acceptable for certain demographics.

In a fair world based on merit, cultural appropriation doesn't even register. But excellent black people have suffered for years, not getting the respect they deserved. It's a fight against systemic racism that is still present.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Race and racism was a huge topic in UK music around that time (1979). Look up The Specials, Rock Against Racism, and the whole ska punk stuff.

Wait wait wait, it was there, he just wasn't aware of it?

Excuse me: hahahahahahahahahahahah

Thanks Dave, you have effectively summarized this thread on cultural appropriation. You good peoples.

 

[Mesoian]

It's only cultural appropriation if white people take it

Tell that to the current wave of Korean trap music.

 

[xKilltheMx]

Now I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert. The concept is relatively new to me. But I believe that the following example from my own life would be considered appropriation:

In high school I liked to listen to underground hip-hop, particular that which was coming out of New York and Philly. I'm not from either of those places. I've never even been to either of those places. I'm also white and from an almost rural suburb. You could probably surmise what the primary demographic was for the artists and performers I was listening to. Furthermore a lot of the content had to do with struggling in the inner-city, tension with local law enforcement, etc. Nothing my classmates and I had any actual experience of. Anyway, all that above up to now alone isn't appropriation per se; here's where it comes in ...

While it was acceptable and seen as 'cool' for me to listen, share, and introduce this music to my classmates, the same could not have been said if I were instead a black person who originally came from Philly or New York (or wherever really). Their first thoughts would have no longer been "oh cool this kid has some new music to listen to". Instead it would have been "ugh, look at this black kid acting like a thug". I know this because I heard those racist sentiments on the daily seeing as the town was at least 95% white. I'm even ashamed to say I myself was likely guilty of similar thoughts at the time. Basically the color of my skin afforded me the opportunity to share music from a different culture/region with my peers that would have otherwise been ignored. Not only that but I got to take advantage of it as a means to increase social status among the same peers.

Good post, great example. That's a micro level scale version of it but is good. Even though you yourself sort of participated in it, it takes introspective fortitude to be able to say it and recognize.

Now take this example and magnify it to a America size level, the shit is infuriating and it's wrong.
My girlfriend got shit at her job for having an afro and then you see an article saying "afros are cool now" and all of a sudden its accepted because this "white" magazine says it?

 

[Azih]

Would certainly seem that way. But again, I'm not proposing this definition, I'm saying that it doesn't work to answer the OP's question of where the line is. Even as a general rule it isn't workable, or accurately capture what people commonly consider cultural appropriation.*

*Although I haven't ever heard anyone before you put the Redskins in the "appropriation" bucket. People who want to get rid of the name straight-up say it's racist.

Appropriation is taking something from another culture and using it. Whether it's Elvis type making music in the same genre or whether it's wearing a Native American Headdress like a big plonking moron style.

And there's the thing. What are 'cultural practices'? It's the behaviour and beliefs of a certain group of people. It kind of does by definition belong to that certain group of people if it's something that immediately calls to mind that particular culture. Like the headdress, like the tomahawk. There has to be a term by which we can talk about this stuff and 'Cultural Appropriation' is as good as any. Now whether a specific example of it is just fine like the All Blacks Maori War Dance or not is another question entirely.

 

[SmokyDave]

Wait wait wait, it was there, he just wasn't aware of it?

Excuse me: hahahahahahahahahahahah

Thanks Dave, you have effectively summarized this thread on cultural appropriation. You good peoples.

Well I don't know if Sting got moaned at for the album specifically (can't imagine so, no likelier than Miles Davis catching heat for Sketches of Spain), but yeah the conversation was definitely happening. The Specials in particular set out to blur the whole 'black music / white music' bollocks. They didn't succeed, as we can see nowadays, but they gave it a damned good go.

 

[PeskyToaster]

Especially when white missionaries suppressed hula dancing for 100 years.

That's the issue though. It's suppressed by one group and then accepted by another. It's different people doing different things.

 

[genjiZERO]

I really think it's only cultural appropriation when whomever is copying then becomes the de facto source of the cultural practice or norm.

For example, the use of the term "Latin" to describe Spanish speaking cultures of South America is cultural appropriation because the Latins were originally a pre-Roman group of people from central Italy and "Latin culture" is their culture.

 

[injurai]

This is exactly what cultural appropriation is. It's this simple.

And folks still find it so hard to understand.

Yeah, but everyone does it so it's okay.

That's culturally disparaging those who you have appropriated from. It's the disparagement that's the issue, not the appropriation in and of itself.

 

[Ray Wonder]

I've never heard that, more like she's blackfacing it up.

I remember Azalea Banks talking about it, along with others around that time.

Two of the bigger examples in recent memory on GAF were the women's afro thread and the Macklemore comments.

For example, if a girl wants curly hair that's fine. When a fashion mag says "hey look at this NEW TREND, the afro! Isn't it stylish? You can have one too!" when for years black women in the workplace were considered unprofessional for having the same hair style naturally, that's appropriation.

Tex-Mex is fine. Calling tex-mex the epitome of Mexican cuisine is appropriation.

Enjoying Macklemore is fine. Saying he's the "only rapper with something to say" when other black rappers have been saying relevant things for years is appropriation.

The Kimono exhibit? That was fine, even if people complained. There was no appropriation, just a way for people to learn what the Kimono is and how to put one on. Saying it's the new fashion craze because Americans picked it up, now that would be appropriation.

It's basically the cultural / racial equivalent of "You made this? No, I made this."



Great example. Of course like you said, everyone will have a differing opinion on what is and isn't appropriation, which makes it difficult.

So it's not the fault of the person making the music, but the people who listen? More akin to "They made this? No, she made this."

It's not as clear cut as some make it out to be is what I'm saying. It seems to boil down to ignorant opinions, to me. Like the quote "the only rapper with something to say" isn't the fault of Macklemore. It's the fault of the person who said it.

 

[GeordieMark]

I agree completely.

White people have invented an enormous number of things that other people and cultures use every day. Penicillin. Refrigeration. Automobiles. Fast food.

And it's totally cool that other peoples use these things or copy these things and I'm glad they do. But imagine if some of these things -- for instance, fast food -- were ridiculed and loathed when white people were starting them up. Then Black businessmen started fast food chains, and suddenly everyone agrees that fast food is awesome and cool.

That is the part of "cultural appropriation" that people don't like: the tendency for Asian or Black or Indian (or whomever) culture to be considered stupid or uncouth until white people try them. It's fine -- great, even -- that some white people might wear traditionally black hairstyles, except for the fact that these hairstyles were considered gross or profesionally inappropriate until white people started wearing them.

This isn't a white/black thing. Its a majority/minority thing. You see similar behavior with the way any trend or fad plays out.

 

[xKilltheMx]

I remember Azalea Banks talking about it, along with others around that time.

I admit I didnt follow it closely so you may be right. Like I said I dont agree (but a case could be made if I heard more about it.

So it's not the fault of the person making the music, but the people who listen? More akin to "They made this? No, she made this."

It's not as clear cut as some make it out to be is what I'm saying. It seems to boil down to ignorant opinions, to me. Like the quote "the only rapper with something to say" isn't the fault of Macklemore. It's the fault of the person who said it.

I think the problem is when the people saying it are the people passing out awards praising them for it. imo.

 

[LucidMomentum]

That's the issue though. It's suppressed by one group and then accepted by another. It's different people doing different things.

It's more telling one culture / race / group of people "No you can't do that, it's absurd and tasteless" while telling another culture / race / group of people "Yes, go for it! It's cool!"

I really think it's only cultural appropriation when whomever is copying then becomes the de facto source of the cultural practice or norm.

For example, the use of the term "Latin" to describe Spanish speaking cultures of South America is cultural appropriation because the Latins were originally a pre-Roman group of people from central Italy and "Latin culture" is their culture.

So it's not the fault of the person making the music, but the people who listen? More akin to "They made this? No, she made this."

It's not as clear cut as some make it out to be is what I'm saying. It seems to boil down to ignorant opinions, to me. Like the quote "the only rapper with something to say" isn't the fault of Macklemore. It's the fault of the person who said it.

Basically, yes. It's when the below happens:

That's culturally disparaging those who you have appropriated from. It's the disparagement that's the issue, not the appropriation in and of itself.

That I feel it becomes a big deal. Almost like cultural assimilation. Macklemore himself never said that about his music, but when more and more people start saying it and believing it, then it becomes and issue. On GAF the quote gets thrown around a lot as parody, but then we get things like the Afro fashion article and suddenly a whole demographic believes it.

Ray, when does it become less of a melting pot and more of appropriation? We all seem to have varying degrees of opinion on it here.

This isn't a white/black thing. Its a majority/minority thing. You see similar behavior with the way any trend or fad plays out.

That's why I liken it to cultural assimilation, but on a smaller form. Like Christmas trees.

I think the problem is when the people saying it are the people passing out awards praising them for it. imo.

I would agree with this statement. In a perfect world, things would be based solely on merit. But sometimes it's not.

 

[teruterubozu]

nvm

 

[Kinitari]

So some seem to be saying it's not appropriating until someone comments on it the wrong way? Ie, until a magazine says fros are cool. If thats the case, then that means it's the magazine who's in the wrong, not the person with the fro, right?

 

[Azih]

Like the quote "the only rapper with something to say" isn't the fault of Macklemore. It's the fault of the person who said it.

I think there is a bit of nuance here. In some cases the problem comes from the person doing the appropriation. In others it comes from the wider society's reaction to the appropriation. In some cases appropriation is just fine.

I mean both Eminem and Elvis appropriated, but the context of the appropriation, and the way society reacted to it were completely different

 

[Gotdatmoney]

A large portion of approriation comes with double standards and disrespect to the intentions of the originators. There isn't anything wrong with wanting to have braids because you like the way they look. But the double standard is that for decades black people were shamed for their natural features andnhair styles and those traditional hair styles are still frowned upon in places of professional employment. So then it becomes an issue when the majority is now able to be like "this is coolnor in" afyer shaming tuenminorities for it for so long. And still that hairstyle is frowned upon when the originators use it.

Something like dreadlocks has deep spiritual and cultural meaning to some black people for many reason and the general stance is still negative when they do it. That's the issue. If people were not still so engrained in these racist mentalities and the minorities were constantly shit on amd laughed at for being at the bottom appropriation would not be such a big issue. Stuff like native american headdresses or religious practices would still have cultural signifincance or course but hairstyles and clothes wouldnt be a big deal.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

The line is when what is appropriated by another culture lacks the reverence or respect for its original culture. Snatching pieces off without any awareness for or understanding of where it came from, how its viewed and valued inside the culture from which it originates.

This too

 

[speculawyer]

Cultural appropriation has been a thing for a long time. How do you think native people in Hawaii where I grew up felt about white people and hula dancing? Hawaiian culture, as an example, has been turned into a kitschy, vanilla export for white people to feel like they're indulging themselves in the exotic for like a hundred years now.

Fat white people hula dancing? Fine with me. When I was last in Hawaii I saw a native Hawaiian wearing a baseball cap driving a pick-up truck with truck nuts. Was I supposed to get mad because he was appropriating white culture?

The is navel-gazing silliness. There are real problems in the world and this is notone of them.


Actually,this is a good thing. Heck, how do you think we finally got everyone to get along? We traded & mixed our cultures and learned to love each other. I would hate to live in a world where people were afraid to mix & modify things.

 

[LucidMomentum]

So some seem to be saying it's not appropriating until someone comments on it the wrong way? Ie, until a magazine says fros are cool. If thats the case, then that means it's the magazine who's in the wrong, not the person with the fro, right?

I think there is a bit of nuance here. In some cases the problem comes from the person doing the appropriation. In others it comes from the wider society's reaction to the appropriation. In some cases appropriation is just fine.

I mean both Eminem and Elvis appropriated, but the context of the appropriation, and the way society reacted to it were completely different

Yes, basically. It's not the person with the Fro causing the issue, it's a society (and the magazine, as a result) saying that the black women who's had an Afro for years wasn't trendy at all, whereas the white women who decide to pick it up all of a sudden are trendy.

It's not so much someone being inspired or taking from another culture because they like it, it's when the culture that it's taken from gets marginalized or deemed less worthy of it than the culture who appropriated it as a result.

TL;DR: Respect other cultures fam. It's cool to like other people's stuff and emulate it, but don't make it seem like you're the first to discover or make it cool.

Fat white people hula dancing? Fine with me. When I was last in Hawaii I saw a native Hawaiian wearing a baseball cap driving a pick-up truck with truck nuts. Was I supposed to get mad because he was appropriating white culture?

The is navel-gazing silliness. There are real problems in the world and this is notone of them.


Actually,this is a good thing. Heck, how do you think we finally got everyone to get along? We traded & mixed our cultures and learned to love each other. I would hate to live in a world where people were afraid to mix & modify things.

We're not saying any of that. But if Hawaiian culture were to go "Truck nuts are our thing now, we made them cool," you'd call them out on it because that's not where it came from.

Sharing is caring, plagiarism is... not?

 

[speculawyer]

Race and racism was a huge topic in UK music around that time (1979). Look up The Specials, Rock Against Racism, and the whole ska punk stuff.

Definitely.

And getting people to mix & match various things created great new art and got people together. I love Ska...English Beat, Specials, Madness, Fine Young Cannibals, etc.

I hate the thought of a PC police out there ready to try to shame someone for adopting something out of another culture.

 

[Ray Wonder]

I think there is a bit of nuance here. In some cases the problem comes from the person doing the appropriation. In others it comes from the wider society's reaction to the appropriation. In some cases appropriation is just fine.

I mean both Eminem and Elvis appropriated, but the context of the appropriation, and the way society reacted to it were completely different

I think it has to do with the lopsided population. White people are more likely to buy white people stuff, and support white people music. Since there's such a large gap between the population amounts, when a white rapper gets support from more white people they tend to overshadow the better, black, artists. To me that's not really the white artist's fault. It's just a consequence of not having a completely colorblind, and equal numbered population.

 

[Azih]

Fat white people hula dancing? Fine with me.

Is it fine with Hawaiians? Is the Redskins logo and Tomahawk Chop a sign of progress and peace and love for everyone?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Actually,this is a good thing. Heck, how do you think we finally got everyone to get along? We traded & mixed our cultures and learned to love each .

When did this happen?

This thread is killing me because it's just an example of people wanting some blanket answer to follow instead of looking at things critically

 

[LucidMomentum]

I hate the thought of a PC police out there ready to try to shame someone for adopting something out of another culture.

There shouldn't have to be a police for these things. No one is shaming you for adopting other cultures, we're shaming people for when they start ignoring the other cultures exist, for whatever reason.

I think it has to do with the lopsided population. White people are more likely to buy white people stuff, and support white people music. Since there's such a large gap between the population amounts, when a white rapper gets support from more white people they tend to overshadow the better, black, artists. To me that's not really the white artist's fault. It's just a consequence of not having a completely colorblind, and equal numbered population.

Exactly. I love rock. I love all kinds of rock. I understand the culture behind each movement and that they brought something different to the table. I'm not going to ignore one culture due to a bias against them and praise another because I feel they're more "worthy" of the notoriety.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

Two of the bigger examples in recent memory on GAF were the women's afro thread and the Macklemore comments.

For example, if a girl wants curly hair that's fine. When a fashion mag says "hey look at this NEW TREND, the afro! Isn't it stylish? You can have one too!" when for years black women in the workplace were considered unprofessional for having the same hair style naturally, that's appropriation.

Tex-Mex is fine. Calling tex-mex the epitome of Mexican cuisine is appropriation.

Enjoying Macklemore is fine. Saying he's the "only rapper with something to say" when other black rappers have been saying relevant things for years is appropriation.

The Kimono exhibit? That was fine, even if people complained. There was no appropriation, just a way for people to learn what the Kimono is and how to put one on. Saying it's the new fashion craze because Americans picked it up, now that would be appropriation.

It's basically the cultural / racial equivalent of "You made this? No, I made this."

I agree, and I thinks these are good examples. I think you can see if it's appropriation in how culture 'legitimizes' it as opposed to where it came from.

 

[speculawyer]

Is it fine with Hawaiians? Is the Redskins logo and Tomahawk Chop a sign of progress and peace and love for everyone?

Hula dancing? They need to get over it.


Redskins logo, that's not their culture, it is in an offensive stereotype of their culture.


I think there are some issues in some of these examples but it is not 'cultural appropriation'. Bigotry, plagiarism, racism, not crediting inspirations, etc. are things. But 'Cultural appropriation' is a vague nebulous PC concept that seems more harmful than beneficial.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Fat white people hula dancing? Fine with me. When I was last in Hawaii I saw a native Hawaiian wearing a baseball cap driving a pick-up truck with truck nuts. Was I supposed to get mad because he was appropriating white culture?

The is navel-gazing silliness. There are real problems in the world and this is notone of them.


Actually,this is a good thing. Heck, how do you think we finally got everyone to get along? We traded & mixed our cultures and learned to love each other. I would hate to live in a world where people were afraid to mix & modify things.

This post is like you're going for dismissive ignorant bingo.

 

[teruterubozu]

Hula dancing? They need to get over it.

Why should they? Hula dancing was a religious ritual, but now it's crass form of tourist kitsch. Typical appropriation where the history & significance of a cultural practice is completely ignored and then people are told to "get over it."

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

What if you're a white girl and you want to express "yourself" by wearing curly hair or putting it in braids? Because that's not okay according to a lot of people.

I haven't seen this in regards to curly or braided hair. I have seen it in regards to dreadlocks on white people. For a good reason too beyond cultural appropriation. It's fucking disgusting. Black hair grows naturally into dreads, white hair doesn't. To get dreads on a white person is to basically let the hair get matted, greasy, and all around disgusting.

 

[PhoenixDark]

The act in of itself of a white person rapping or having cornrows is not cultural appropriation. There is nothing wrong with either, nor does a white person need to use a disclaimer about how they support or acknowledge black social causes in order to unlock access to these things. Cultural appropriation emerges when something that was once vilified or dismissed is suddenly adopted wholesale by another culture, thus giving it validation.

A separate factor is the reality that people tend to gravitate towards people who look like them. I "get" why a white person might get into hip hop due to the Beastie Boys or Eminem, the same way many black people started giving a fuck about golf once Tiger Woods emerged. There's nothing wrong with that, it's perfectly understandable. The problem is when someone tries to argue hip hop was simplistic or noise before Eminem arrived, or that Elvis made rock n roll, etc.

A Jenner wearing cornrows is nothing more to me than a girl trying out one of the million hairstyles she'll preview on instagram this year. I haven't seen her declare herself the inventor of cornrows or any other hairstyle she selects. If I'm going to fault anyone it would be the media, who have traditionally dismissed those types of hairstyles when black women wear them.

(although to be fair cornrows look shitty across the board)

 

[umop_3pisdn]

I haven't seen this in regards to curly or braided hair. I have seen it in regards to dreadlocks on white people. For a good reason too beyond cultural appropriation. It's fucking disgusting. Black hair grows naturally into dreads, white hair doesn't. To get dreads on a white person is to basically let the hair get matted, greasy, and all around disgusting.

Everyone's hair will form dreads if you don't comb it for long enough, it's probably the world's oldest 'hairstyle'.

 

[FStop7]

What's the alternative to "cultural appropriation" in a nation of 300+ million with people of every possible ethnic background? Balkanization? That's a terrible idea.

One of the reasons America's prospered is the concept of the melting pot.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Hula dancing? They need to get over it.


Redskins logo, that's not their culture, it is in an offensive stereotype of their culture.


I think there are some issues in some of these examples but it is not 'cultural appropriation'. Bigotry, plagiarism, racism, not crediting inspirations, etc. are things. But 'Cultural appropriation' is a vague nebulous PC concept that seems more harmful than beneficial.

Why do they need to get over hula dancing? Its views like this that annoy me. Why does the marginalized group always having to fucking suck it up over the majority that treated them like shit, took their culture, ignored and disrespected where it came from and its importance then rebranded it as "its cool now that we wanna do it.TM"?

A lot of the issues with cultural appropriation come from the fact that racism and bias has been thrown against groups for centuries for their looks and their culture. To then take what was degraded, rebrand it ss hip, still shit on the group you stole it from and not acknowledge where it started or why it is important to them is wrong. No one gives a fuck if you borrow the concept of a spoon from someone but something fundamental to a persons identity cant be degraded for so long then made okay when the original group has no part in it

 

[Kinyou]

I haven't seen this in regards to curly or braided hair. I have seen it in regards to dreadlocks on white people. For a good reason too beyond cultural appropriation. It's fucking disgusting. Black hair grows naturally into dreads, white hair doesn't. To get dreads on a white person is to basically let the hair get matted, greasy, and all around disgusting.

There was this a few months ago

 

[xKilltheMx]

Why do they need to get over hula dancing? Its views like this that annoy me. Why does the marginalized group always having to fucking suck it up over the majority that treated them like shit, took their culture, ignored and disrespected where it came from and its importance then rebranded it as "its cool now that we wanna do it.TM"?

A lot of the issues with cultural appropriation come from the fact that racism and bias has been thrown against groups for centuries for their looks and their culture. To then take what was degraded, rebrand it ss hip, still shit on the group you stole it from and not acknowledge where it started or why it is important to them is wrong. No one gives a fuck if you borrow the concept of a spoon from someone but something fundamental to a persons identity cant be degraded for so long then made okay when the original group has no part in it

I get you.
But dat white fragility doe, gotta go inside voice.

 

[speculawyer]

Why should they? Hula dancing was a religious ritual, but now it's crass form of tourist kitsch. Typical appropriation where the history & significance of a cultural practice is completely ignored and then people are told to "get over it."

Well they can get over it or they can remain forever cranky curmudgeons. Their choice. You can't own a dance. Im Scandinavian. Am I supposed to be upset if some Hawaiian wears a viking helmet & shield? Who cares.

If people choose to be bitter PC obsessed cranks their whole lives that is their choice. Seems like a terrible way to go through life. And I hope they don't watch Walt Disney movies, they are non stop 'cultural appropriation'. Aladdin, the Scottish in Brave, the Nordic in Frozen, etc.

 

[diffusionx]

Good post, great example. That's a micro level scale version of it but is good. Even though you yourself sort of participated in it, it takes introspective fortitude to be able to say it and recognize.

Now take this example and magnify it to a America size level, the shit is infuriating and it's wrong.
My girlfriend got shit at her job for having an afro and then you see an article saying "afros are cool now" and all of a sudden its accepted because this "white" magazine says it?

There are a lot of things that magazines may say are "cool" that are not acceptable in a workplace environment. I don't think anyone at my office would hear anything for having an afro, but then again it's not like the style guide is the latest issue of Vanity Fair (or Ebony for that matter).

 

[teruterubozu]

Well they can get over it or they can remain forever cranky curmudgeons. Their choice. You can't own a dance. Im Scandinavian. Am I supposed to be upset if some Hawaiian wears a viking helmet & shield? Who cares.

Vikings weren't completely oppressed by another dominant culture. Anyway, this is a pointless argument. It's your worldview, I guess.

 

[FStop7]

Why do they need to get over hula dancing? Its views like this that annoy me. Why does the marginalized group always having to fucking suck it up over the majority that treated them like shit, took their culture, ignored and disrespected where it came from and its importance then rebranded it as "its cool now that we wanna do it.

Because one has nothing to do with the other. And because that's life when you're a mature adult.