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Why are several PS4 Pro games arbitrarily locking 1080p users out of downsampling?

Vashetti

Banned
Oct 3, 2012
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Assassin's Creed: The Ezio Collection

We'll get the bad news out of the way first, because it's actually quite unbelievable. The Ezio Collection pulls off a creditable 30fps lock at full, native 2160p on all three of its component titles - if your PlayStation 4 Pro is attached to a 4K display. However, we were stunned by the fact that if you don't have an ultra HD screen, the game elects to bust you down to native 1080p - leaving Pro owners with absolutely no advantages over base PlayStation 4 owners. It's situations like this that really highlight that all Pro implementations should be available to all users, regardless of what displays they might happen to own.

The Last Guardian

Years in the making, The Last Guardian offers two PlayStation 4 Pro modes - and which one you get is entirely dependant on what video mode your hardware is set to. If your console is configured for 1080p output, the game operates at full HD resolution with much smoother performance than Pro's 4K mode and indeed base hardware. If your console is set to 2160p output, a full-on 1890p presentation - upscaled to 4K - is what you get.

The Last of Us Remastered

Edit: as of patch 1.09, supersampling/downsampling has been restored for 1080p displays!

Dishonored 2

So here's a weird one. Dishonored 2 does offer a nice resolution boost, scaling up to 1440p resolution. However, based on our tests, this only happens when the PS4 Pro is connected to a 4K display. When hooked up to a full HD screen, native resolution settles at 1080p - so there's no super-sampling advantage here for those that don't have ultra HD televisions. It's highly strange, especially as performance seems to be identical in engine stress-points (perhaps suggesting a CPU bottleneck).

Kingdom Hearts Dream Drop Distance

The version tested was 1.02 for both the PS4 and the PS4 Pro.

Kingdom Hearts Dream Drop Distance HD runs at a native resolution of 1920x1080 on the PS4 and 3840x2160 on the PS4 Pro when outputting at 2160p. When the PS4 Pro is outputting at 1080p it runs at a native resolution of 1920x1080.

The PS4 Pro footage was captured in 1080p after starting the game in 4K. This was done to force downsampling to 1080p.

The frame pacing issues during cutscenes seem to be reduced when running the PS4 Pro is running natively at 1920x1080 (http://imgur.com/a/RwcMw).

Stats: http://bit.ly/2kkKSgs
PS4 Frames Pixel Counted: http://imgur.com/a/Rg77C
PS4 Pro 1080p Frames Pixel Counted: http://imgur.com/a/wmlXc
PS4 Pro 4K Frames Pixel Counted: http://imgur.com/a/sAQU9

Rocket League


https://blog.eu.playstation.com/201...ort-coming-to-rocket-league-on-21st-february/


Kingdom Hearts 1.5/2.5 Remaster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPFiunQon7s&ab_channel=VGTech

Kingdom Hearts on PS4 renders at a native resolution of 1920x1080. When outputting at 2160p, the PS4 Pro renders at a native resolution of 3840x2160. When outputting at 1080p, the PS4 Pro renders at a native resolution of 1920x1080 (http://imgur.com/a/O4QzM, http://imgur.com/a/0OXHQ)

Outlast 2
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-outlast-2-console-tech-analysis

There's not much to divide the console versions of the game - though for the record, the metrics tally up at a native 1080p for both PS4 and Xbox One, while the PS4 Pro gets a 78 per cent resolution bump, giving us a straight 1440p when running with 4K output enabled. Frustratingly though, if your Pro is coupled with a 1080p screen, there's no support for down-sampling - based on our pixel counts, full HD is all you get.

Paladins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGvHxKkcItI&ab_channel=VGTech

When outputting at 2160p the PS4 Pro uses a dynamic resolution with the lowest pixel count found being approximately 3413x1920 and the highest pixel count found being 3840x2160. When outputting at 1080p the PS4 Pro renders at a native resolution of 1920x1080.

Gran Turismo Sport beta

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsNNTNWwkDU

Edit: The GTS beta did not support supersampling/downsampling, however the final game does:

The PS4 Pro renders at a resolution of 3200x1800 using checkerboard rendering when outputting at 4k and this can be downsampled to 1080p by selecting the Prioritise Quality Mode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vidu3c7RROc

Final Fantasy XIV

A "PS4 Pro" setting has been added.
Players using this setting will have their game displayed at a higher resolution than the standard "PS4" setting.
* This setting will only be applied when a PlayStation®4 Pro is connected to a 4K-compatible TV.

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/fe38225b3d83e182213d5a4a99dc705ae58ea156

Nex Machina

I played Nex Machina on the PS4 Pro and the picture quality is very good and sharp. On the regular Playstation 4 you get a 900p or 1600×900 resolution. On the Playstation 4 Pro you get a native 1080p image if you are using an 1080p set. If you're a 4K TV owner you get a nice boost with Nex Machina, running at 3360×1890. Not quite Native 4K but the game still looks amazingly sharp on a 4K screen.

http://p4gamers.com/nex-machina-review-twin-stick-awesomeness/

Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age

Thanks for the shots! I'd like to give you better news, but I'm pretty sure there's no downsampling. Also, the high-res version seems to be rendering at 1440p; I got a couple larger counts as well, but nothing cleanly divisible. The relatively slight difference between 1080p and 1440p often leads to this difficulty, so I wouldn't put much confidence in the slight variability of my results. The lower number is much more likely.

Lawbreakers

The Lawbreakers open beta on Playstation 4 Pro renders at a native resolution of approximately 2496x1404 when outputting at 4K. When outputting at 1080p it renders at a native resolution of 1920x1080.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te_6_ly8HVs&ab_channel=VGTech

Ys VIII Lacrimosa of Dana

We can add another one to the pile of no downsampling. :/ Ys VIII Lacrimosa of Dana is native(?) 4K and 60fps on PS4 Pro on 4k TVs and basically the standard PS4 version on HDTVs with a 1080p resolution and 60fps.
.

Everybody's Golf

Yes.
The 4K-option is greyed out and can't be selected, only the 60/30fps toggle works.

Life is Strange: Before the Storm

I'm downloading right now (2.5GB update), i'll be able to post screenshots after.

EDIT. Finished downloading.

On 1080p screens nothing changed, 1080p 60fps with NO option for downsampling.

On 4K screens the game now let's you choose between "High Resolution" and "High Framerate" in the menu under video settings.

My pixel count gave me a 1440p image for the high resolution mode, but the framerate seems to be 30fps.

High Resolution mode on a 4K screen: https://abload.de/img/lifeisstrange_beforettjbp9.png

Screenshot on 1080p screen: https://abload.de/img/lifeisstrange_beforet4xk0x.png

South Park: The Fractured But Whole

Unfortunately no, that's a 1080p pixel count, no doubt about that. So no downsampling.

Other games:

Call of Duty: Black Ops III
Farming Simulator 17
Firewatch
Hatsune Miku: Project DIVA X HD
Smite
The Witness
MLB The Show 17
Berserk and the Band of the Hawk
Samurai Warriors: Spirit of Sanada


As per this thread

Why? Why are certain games locking out options for 1080p display users on the PS4 Pro? Mark Cerny promised at the Pro announcement that 1080p users would receive benefits, and yet for a fair few games, we're being arbitrarily locked out of accessing them for no other reason than that we don't own/use a 4K display instead.

Why? Why? Why?

Sources:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-playstation-4-pro-game-upgrade-guide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5pXkGcmMTY

Here's a tweet I sent to the Kingdom Hearts and Playstation Twitters

If we could come up with a hashtag or something to gain awareness, that could be helpful.
 

Tailzo

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Feb 6, 2007
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Maybe in the future, 4k signals on a 1080p TV will use be downsampled by default? Are we waiting for a new ps4 FW?
 

Brhoom

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Sep 29, 2014
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To hammer home the notion that they are nothing more than a shitty PC?

It's just developers choosing what they think is best for the average player. Consoles are known for their ease. Giving players too many options will just make them like PCs, only worse.
 

hodayathink

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Mar 13, 2013
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For TLoU: Remastered, part of it was because people complained that the framerate dropped lower than the PS4 version while supersampling. Doesn't make it right, but that's what happened.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Sony implemented a downsampling option in their firmware in the future to fix this issue.
 

bombshell

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Oct 23, 2013
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Maybe in the future, 4k signals on a 1080p TV will use be downsampled by default? Are we waiting for a new ps4 FW?

It's a possibility, certainly. PS4 4.50 goes in beta very soon, so we'll see if that has something.
 
May 11, 2009
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To hammer home the notion that they are nothing more than a shitty PC?

It's just developers choosing what they think is best for the average player. Consoles are known for their ease. Giving players too many options will just make them like PCs, only worse.

Even a shitty PC let's you decide what to do with the power you've paid for.
 

Vashetti

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Oct 3, 2012
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For TLoU: Remastered, part of it was because people complained that the framerate dropped lower than the PS4 version while supersampling. Doesn't make it right, but that's what happened.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Sony implemented a downsampling option in their firmware in the future to fix this issue.

Then ND patched the performance in 1.08. It's a locked 60fps at 1800p. But 1080p users aren't granted access to that anymore.
 

leng jai

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Jan 20, 2009
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It's ridiculous and not one of them has had it patched in by the looks of it. It should be automatically enabled at an OS level, rather than having it be a game by game basis.
 

JaseC

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Jul 30, 2009
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It's been theorised that some developers are ignoring it because it'll be an OS-level option in a future firmware update, but the unverified document that mentions this leaked more than half a year ago now and there have been no less than three firmware updates in that time. I'm not ruling out the possibility, of course, but it becomes increasingly unlikely with each passing update.

Edit: 4.5 won't have it, either.
 

Lnds500

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Oct 15, 2013
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I am looking into buying a Pro, I am not interested at 4K screens at the moment and this is inexcusable. It's like Sony or whoever makes (or doesn't prevent) these decisions doesn't want to sell consoles.
 

Hasney

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Dec 6, 2012
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For TLoU: Remastered, part of it was because people complained that the framerate dropped lower than the PS4 version while supersampling. Doesn't make it right, but that's what happened.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Sony implemented a downsampling option in their firmware in the future to fix this issue.

Great. I'll always take the framerate so I'm usually catered for, but options are a good thing and the sooner developers actually let the users choose, the better.

Whole thing feels like "Well if users wanted options, they'll be on PC!"... but it's one toggle.
 

Ferr986

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Oct 6, 2012
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For TLoU: Remastered, part of it was because people complained that the framerate dropped lower than the PS4 version while supersampling. Doesn't make it right, but that's what happened.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Sony implemented a downsampling option in their firmware in the future to fix this issue.

Not true, because the 4k mode runs fine without framedrops with the latest patch, so the supersampling mode should run like that too now. They just took it out without a reason.
 

michaelius

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Jan 5, 2012
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Developers thinking they know better what people want.

I can't wait for the moment where we get full graphic options in console games so we aren't on the mercy of developers.
 

Sesuadra

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Mar 20, 2014
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They don't want me to buy their next game.
Or are lazy fucks.

Or there is a reason no one told us anything about.
 

mieumieu

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if something can be done in literally a few man hours, but it is not done (or consciously removed), then it is not because people are lazy, but because it is not thought of as an option at all.

We should definitely raise consciousness of this issue to devs and also to SIE. I would argue that providing a system wide feature would be best for all.

I dont know about Naughty Dog though. They should explain logic behind the decision. The only point I think of is that downsampling from close to FHD res to actual FHD (like RE7 and other 1440p games) may sacrifice some image quality on UI? But downsampling from 4k (or close to) to FHD only helps with temporal and texture details.
 

Izuna

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Nov 23, 2010
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For TLoU: Remastered, part of it was because people complained that the framerate dropped lower than the PS4 version while supersampling. Doesn't make it right, but that's what happened.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Sony implemented a downsampling option in their firmware in the future to fix this issue.

Not at all

They fixed the framerate issues

Which is separate from fucking over 1080p users.
 

Lnds500

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Oct 15, 2013
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Anyone want to get a # started??

If we are to draw attention to this issue we should all use the same #.

I am thinking #PS4ProDownsampling
 

Kenzodielocke

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Dec 24, 2014
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I just don't get it. I really, really hope 4.5 has a system wide option to toggle downsampling on/off. Because that is just utterely dumb to have paid for this premium model and not get all the features out of it.
 
Dec 6, 2015
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Because some ignorant who don't know what downsampling is complained that the game runs "slower than OG PS4 at 1080p! AT 1080P!" ignoring the fact that it was rendering at 1800p and downsampling. And that was just 2-3 fps drop at a demanding scene so ND took that out.
 

Vashetti

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Oct 3, 2012
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Because some ignorant who don't know what downsampling is complained that the game runs "slower than OG PS4 at 1080p! AT 1080P!" ignoring the fact that it was rendering at 1800p and downsampling. And that was just 2-3 fps drop at a demanding scene so ND took that out.

And then proceeded to patch said performance.

It now runs at 1800p at a locked 60fps. According to Eurogamer it's the best the game has ever performed.

Except you only get a native 1080p if you're on a 1080p TV. Because reasons.
 

GHG

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I refuse to buy a pro until they fix this bullshit.
 

JaseC

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Yep. Naughty Scammers even removed all related topics and gone radio silent. Hopefully system-wide downsampling is a thing in 4.5 FW.

I think ND would have said something to that effect if it were the case rather than continue to sweep criticism under the rug, especially as the update is entering public beta very soon.
 

Kyzer

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Jan 7, 2009
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Downsampling is not the only option for beneficial performance though. Cerny promised better performance on ps4 pro and you list right there that these games perform better on ps4 pro (other than ezio collection)

I would like downsampling as an option in more games though
 

JimmyRustler

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Yeah, it's really stupid as there is no obvious reason for it not being possible. On PC games downsample automatically if you don't have a 4k monitor. I really don't see what this isn't the norm here as well, except if they intend it as a twisted way to sell more 4k TVs.

Really hope that automatic downsampling comes with the next patch. Come on Sony. I thought you were 4 the playaz?
 

RAWRferal

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Downsampling is not the only option for beneficial performance though. Cerny promised better performance on ps4 pro and you list right there that these games perform better on ps4 pro (other than ezio collection)

I would like downsampling as an option in more games though

This is a very thin argument for games that have minor hitches in 4k mode vs. 1080p mode, let alone the vast majority of the games which have identical performance yet don't allow downsampling - which is mind-boggling and infuriating.
 

Nabbis

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Sep 8, 2014
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Yep. Naughty Scammers even removed all related topics and gone radio silent. Hopefully system-wide downsampling is a thing in 4.5 FW.

Lol, what the hell. That's some Bungie School Of PR. Seems like a easy problem to fix, either way there is a huge problem with a studio not being able to do this be it due to Sony or themselves.
 
Aug 24, 2015
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Yeah, it's really stupid as there is no obvious reason for it not being possible. On PC games downsample automatically if you don't have a 4k monitor. I really don't see what this isn't the norm here as well, except if they intend it as a twisted way to sell more 4k TVs.

Really hope that automatic downsampling comes with the next patch. Come on Sony. I thought you were 4 the playaz?

I guess the response is because they're consoles, not PCs =( ..

I don't like it at all, but that's how the market is at the moment.
I would really love an option to unlock the gpu for older games (so you can chose, and try to see if it broke anything, or if it's better in that way)
 

smuf

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Out of those I've only played The Last Guardian on PS4 Pro (1080p tv) and the framerate was already terrible. I can't even imagine how bad it must be at (pseudo)4k.
 

Rellik

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Out of those I've only played The Last Guardian on PS4 Pro (1080p tv) and the framerate was already terrible. I can't even imagine how bad it must be at (pseudo)4k.

Then give a choice like Tomb Raider did.