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[koutoru]

The only thing I can think of (which wouldn't even apply to every game), is that games that don't take into account down sampling at all could have horrible UI scaling issues if the game is rendered @ 4k but is forced on a 1080p tv.

But in my opinion that still shouldn't lock out users from options available to others with the same console.

 

[boneyjangles]

Don't know. As a PS4 Pro 1080p ownder, it doesn't bother at all though, it's a fairly minor thing.

If developers want to spend the time to add the option, or have the time to add the option, great, if they don't, I don't care.

To be honest I would prefer to stay away from myopic outrage culture about small technical matters getting blown up out of all proportion on the console space.

 

[leng jai]

Don't know. As a PS4 Pro 1080p ownder, it doesn't bother at all though, it's a fairly minor thing.

If developers want to spend the time to add the option, or have the time to add the option, great, if they don't, I don't care.

To be honest I would prefer to stay away from myopic outrage culture about small technical matters getting blown up out of all proportion on the console space.

What? Downsampling is one of the major reasons to get a PS4 Pro if you're on a 1080p screen.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

What? Downsampling is one of the major reasons to get a PS4 Pro if you're on a 1080p screen.

Apparently not though.

 

[RAWRferal]

Don't know. As a PS4 Pro 1080p ownder, it doesn't bother at all though, it's a fairly minor thing.

If developers want to spend the time to add the option, or have the time to add the option, great, if they don't, I don't care.

To be honest I would prefer to stay away from myopic outrage culture about small technical matters getting blown up out of all proportion on the console space.

Each to their own, but as a 1080p TV owner, the number one reason I was excited for Pro was downsampling and the elimination of aliasing. The games that have implemented it have immediately noticeable benefits IMO.

 

[Vashetti]

Don't know. As a PS4 Pro 1080p ownder, it doesn't bother at all though, it's a fairly minor thing.

If developers want to spend the time to add the option, or have the time to add the option, great, if they don't, I don't care.

To be honest I would prefer to stay away from myopic outrage culture about small technical matters getting blown up out of all proportion on the console space.

How insulting.

 

[Sad Affleck]

It's strange. Most of the Pro's extra power goes unused that way.

 

[Oneself]

Still, every game listed in the OP (maybe except AC Ezio) runs better on the Pro @1080p than it does on the base PS4.

 

[JPS Kai]

In regards to TLoU's issue, could that be in part because of Sony's mandate of not not having Pro software run at a worse performance than the standard SKU?

That doesn't excuse ND from not adding super sampling back with patch 1.08 but it might at least explain why it was removed in the first place.

 

[Jacob4815]

As a 1080p Tv user, this is the only reason I bought a PRO. I love supersampling.

Two months ago I contacted every developer or PR people asking about the issue. ND, Japan Studio, Bethesda, Arkane Studios, Yoshida ignored every time the question.
We have many feedback threads in the ND technical site with thousands of requests, this the most wanted fix in the hystory of ND.
But still nothing.

So I don't know what we could do. If you guys want to promote an hashtag or similar, I'm with you.

 

[dark10x]

I feel that it should always be an option to allow those to downscale or opt for the lower resolution. In the case of The Last Guardian, the performance is terrible in that game especially later - at 1080p on the Pro, you get a significant boost, though it still dips pretty hard at points. The 4K mode runs very poorly in comparison and spends a huge chunk of time under 30fps. I couldn't play it that way. This is why options are a must.

In regards to TLoU's issue, could that be in part because of Sony's mandate of not not having Pro software run at a worse performance than the standard SKU?

That doesn't excuse ND from not adding super sampling back with patch 1.08 but it might at least explain why it was removed in the first place.

Nope. That was the theory but, the reality is, the 1800p mode on Pro now runs faster than the original PS4 version. They fixed the issues.

 

[Vashetti]

I feel that it should always be an option to allow those to downscale or opt for the lower resolution. In the case of The Last Guardian, the performance is terrible in that game especially later - at 1080p on the Pro, you get a significant boost, though it still dips pretty hard at points. The 4K mode runs very poorly in comparison and spends a huge chunk of time under 30fps. I couldn't play it that way. This is why options are a must.


Nope. That was the theory but, the reality is, the 1800p mode on Pro now runs faster than the original PS4 version. They fixed the issues.

Is it possible you could reach out to Sony and the devs of the games in the OP for comment?

 

[Jakartalado]

By several you mean 5 out of more than 80 games that support PS4 Pro?

Please....

I know it's sad for 1080p. But in every case they get something extra from the regular ps4 like, better shadows, better framerate or better effects. So there's no panic in here to make this bigger than it is.

Except for Assassin's Creed Ezio Collection. You get nothing from Ubisoft kkkk

 

[MadraptorMan]

Because I am pretty drunk some of this stuff is hard to wrap my head around. Am I correct in concluding that as an owner of a PS4 Pro connected to a 1080P TV, I would get no benefit from playing The Last Guardian?

 

[sirap]

Because I am pretty drunk some of this stuff is hard to wrap my head around. Am I correct in concluding that as an owner of a PS4 Pro connected to a 1080P TV, I would get no benefit from playing The Last Guardian?

No, you get a better frame-rate than the game played at 4K or on the base PS4.

 

[matrix-cat]

By several you mean 5 out of more than 80 games that support PS4 Pro?

Please....

The word 'several' encompasses five, yes.

 

[Primethius]

It's really damn weird and disappointing.

 

[black070]

It's difficult to pinpoint the reasoning, especially when there is little to no correlation between the titles effected.

 

[TGO]

It's odd because there is no real reason for it.
They are literally saying no to spite 1080p owners.
I know that sounds ridiculous, why would they do that?
But they have.
It's like someone sitting with their head in the way of the TV. they can move it but won't
And they're doing it for no reason.

 

[Gojeran]

Makes me fucking pissed. One of the reasons I got a pro was because we are told there would be benefits for 1080p users which included SS. Why the fuck do we keep locked to 1080p, shit makes no sense. I'm not buying a 4K TV.

 

[EmilioLargo]

To be honest I would prefer to stay away from myopic outrage culture about small technical matters getting blown up out of all proportion on the console space.

Why exactly are you posting in here If that's your opinion on the matter? It is clearly a problem for a lot of Pro 1080P users not willing to upgrade their TV in the foreseeable future (myself included).

 

[David Ricardo]

I would love for someone from Sony to come here and try to explain to us why we should be accepting this. I'm sure Neogaf would send back his head to Sony HQ in a silver platter.

 

[ZeroCDR]

I'm clinging onto my 1.07 Last of Us patch for dear life, shut off automatic updates. The game looks so good downsampled, it was worth the performance hit. But.. they actually fixed the performance hit, and took away downsampling anyway. It feels out of spite.

I didn't even know KH DDD did this too, glad I know because I was about to get it. Not anymore. No excuses for this.

 

[Jacob4815]

Mmmh.... Boost Mode for PS4 PRO...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1340529

Maybe Last of Us Remastered will run smoother and with a locked framerate without the infamous patch 1.08, and ND is waiting for the firmware to release a new patch and restore the supersampling?

 

[cakely]

We're talking about five games.

It's disappointing but I'm not outraged. Perhaps there will be further patches that add downsampling in? I don't know.

I am really missing a Pro patch for Witcher 3 and Bloodborne. News of a Pro patch on either of those games would be absolutely huge.

 

[mullet2000]

I'm going to go with Occam's Razor here and say the most likely answer is that a lot of devs don't even realize that downsampling is a thing people want because of how niche a feature it is.

 

[ced]

It's something I had assumed would be done automatically, maybe they will add that in a firmware.

 

[David Ricardo]

Mmmh.... Boost Mode for PS4 PRO...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1340529

Maybe Last of Us Remastered will run smoother and with a locked framerate without the infamous patch 1.08, and ND is waiting for the firmware to release a new patch and restore the supersampling?

Boost mode option is for games that do not have a pro patch. This games do have a pro patch, but lock 1080p users out of the higher resolution options.

The easiest way out of this, is adding to the settings menu an option to tell the games to render 4k and then scale the resulting image to 1080p before sending it to the tv.

 

[The Omega Man]

The PS4 Pro was made to sell you 4K TVs, if the games end up looking better on old 1080P sets that's counter productive and goes against the original intent of the console.

They will never tell you that of course.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

The PS4 Pro was made to sell you 4K TVs, if the games end up looking better on old 1080P sets that's counter productive and goes against the original intent of the console.

They will never tell you that of course.

Ubisoft is deliberately sabotaging its 1080p owners so you will buy a 4k tv for a console that doesnt play 4k blu ray?

 

[Lockjaw333]

For one Last Guardian needs the framerate boost.
I'm considering getting a pro just for that.

The fact that last guardian on the pro runs only at locked 30fps with some massive drops in places and is only 1080p is mind numbing. It's over 2x the GPU power and the game looks frankly like a ps3 game.

I feel like outside of a few games like tomb raider and nioh that the effort for pro support has been shitty.

 

[dark10x]

The fact that last guardian on the pro runs only at locked 30fps with some massive drops in places and is only 1080p is mind numbing. It's over 2x the GPU power and the game looks frankly like a ps3 game.

I feel like outside of a few games like tomb raider and nioh that the effort for pro support has been shitty.

I think the problem is two-fold...

The 4K mode pushes the resolution perhaps just a little too high and it runs into more pronounced drops as a result.

...but even at 1080p, there is slowdown which is very clearly related to physics. When Trico engages the statues or things start breaking apart, you start getting massive dips. Sometimes it even pauses for a second or two - feels like the CPU can't keep up.

 

[2blackcats]

The PS4 Pro was made to sell you 4K TVs, if the games end up looking better on old 1080P sets that's counter productive and goes against the original intent of the console.

They will never tell you that of course.

Do people really believe this or is it a meme I don't know?

 

[ethomaz]

After the Beast Mode.

I believe Sony is doing an downsampling option for PS4 Pro via Firmware.

 

[5taquitos]

Who knows why this handful of games don't support downsamplig, but I guarantee it's not some conspiracy to sell 4K TVs. If that were true, wouldn't a game like Uncharted 4 only benefit 4K?

This is just devs being weird/not putting much time into the patch.

 

[antibolo]

Project Diva X is another game that won't give you downsampling on a 1080p display. Which is stupid because the game definitely would benefit.

As it is the game looks pretty much identical to non-Pro in 1080p, it was already stable 60 fps, and the release notes mention improved models and textures but I haven't noticed anything.

 

[PeterLegend]

Hopefully Sony will give the option in the OS from a firmware update....

 

[ViolentP]

EDIT: Nevermind. Misunderstood the question.

 

[Movalpolos]

I just don't get it. I really, really hope 4.5 has a system wide option to toggle downsampling on/off. Because that is just utterely dumb to have paid for this premium model and not get all the features out of it.

This.

 

[AgentP]

Five games from the early days of the Pro, time to start a movement and March for downsampling...

You could give the devs the bdnigit of the doubt and just ask nicely. It is more work and testing for them.

 

[Reallink]

I'm clinging onto my 1.07 Last of Us patch for dear life, shut off automatic updates. The game looks so good downsampled, it was worth the performance hit. But.. they actually fixed the performance hit, and took away downsampling anyway. It feels out of spite.

I didn't even know KH DDD did this too, glad I know because I was about to get it. Not anymore. No excuses for this.

There's no "seems like" about it, LoU 1.08 is absolutely a message to all the "PRO WORSE THAN VANILLA PS4 LOLOLOL!!!!" articles and talking heads that spawned from DF's (and similar's) analysis.

 

[burgerdog]

Ouch @ Dream drop distance. Native 4k and it only sends out a 1080p image, that burns.

 

[Melchiah]

Then ND patched the performance in 1.08. It's a locked 60fps at 1800p. But 1080p users aren't granted access to that anymore.

Nor the 2160p/30fps mode, which ran perfectly fine supersampled before it was removed.

 

[boneyjangles]

How insulting.

Sorry, I didn't mean to insult you, that was not directed at you. I though it was a very well constructed topic with lots of interesting information.

My response was more to some of the conspiracy/cynical comments in the thread, or maybe not specifically those even, but more towards some aspects of gaming culture.

I think games developers/publishers are in a very Laissez-faire position, more so than other industries, where they live or die on the quality of their output and decisions they make. It's ultimately all about making money and pleasing or retaining customers. Some companies go about this in an exploitative way, releasing a popular game with season pass every 12 months, or with their unpleasant DLC policies. Others chose more 'moral' paths of handcrafting high quality over time. Hey, whatever works, ultimately we can vote with our wallets or chose alternative titles.

I just feel as a 1080p PS4 Pro owner, although I would love improved rendering from all titles, it's a demand for what is right now a small market segment. PS4 Pro is a much less popular platform currently than PS4. And non-4k PS4 Pro an even smaller slice of that.

I'm sure developers in an ideal world would love to add great 1080p modes for PS4 Pro on all titles, but I know it's not always easy, and there are various time pressures and depending on the developer or title, maybe it's very low down the priority list. I just want them to mostly focus on making great games, and not getting bogged down by demands for what are, perhaps, quite minor technical things that maybe don't really affect their bottom line or success.

I probably shouldn't have piped in, but anyway, I'm loving my PS4 Pro either way!

 

[Cuburt]

Glad I held off from getting a Pro. The benefits were to vague on what we can be sure to get and while downsampling seemed like the biggest benefit for 1080p gamers, just from the efforts to increase resolution for 4k users, it seems it isn't automatic like checkerboard upscaling.

Guess I'll wait on an actual "generation" type upgrade.

 

[staticneuron]

This is a very thin argument for games that have minor hitches in 4k mode vs. 1080p mode, let alone the vast majority of the games which have identical performance yet don't allow downsampling - which is mind-boggling and infuriating.

I don't understand this view and many others in this thread. Downsampling has one purpose, it is basically OGSSAA. So what if the fix it at 1080p but offer different aliasing solution? Unless the game is awash with Jaggies I don't even see the reason for the outcry.

 

[anothertech]

Supersampling is god mode visually for me. Inexplicable the way some devs are removing the feature. I hope it's just temporary. I hope to get a good many years out of my 1080p set yet.

 

[TrojanAg]

Seeing as how this was pitched as a major feature for people with HD displays it is annoying to see some devs kind of half-ass it.

Overall though, I'm glad that I have a Pro. The benefits are still pretty good in most games that have been patched and the improvement to PSVR is pretty noticeable.

 

[Melchiah]

I just feel as a 1080p PS4 Pro owner, although I would love improved rendering from all titles, it's a demand for what is right now a small market segment. PS4 Pro is a much less popular platform currently than PS4. And non-4k PS4 Pro an even smaller slice of that.

Supersampling was an advertised feature for TLOU, and it still remains unchanged in the EU blog; https://blog.eu.playstation.com/201...-4-and-the-last-of-us-remastered-for-ps4-pro/

EDIT:

I don't understand this view and many others in this thread. Downsampling has one purpose, it is basically OGSSAA. So what if the fix it at 1080p but offer different aliasing solution? Unless the game is awash with Jaggies I don't even see the reason for the outcry.

It's not only that, but improved textures as well.

This is what was said about it in PS blog in regards to Horizon.

For starters, for players who still possess standard 1080p HDTVs, we’re able to offer far better image quality. We’ve got a number of techniques at our disposal. The most logical one is supersampling. This is a very high-quality anti-aliasing technique, which basically means we internally render at a higher resolution (close to 4K) before shrinking it down to the final 1080p resolution. As our internal calculations are done at a resolution much higher than 1080p, more detail survives before we shrink it down to 1080p, resulting in smoother edges — virtually no jaggies — and a more stable image.

 

[antibolo]

Glad I held off from getting a Pro. The benefits were to vague on what we can be sure to get and while downsampling seemed like the biggest benefit for 1080p gamers, just from the efforts to increase resolution for 4k users, it seems it isn't automatic like checkerboard upscaling.

Guess I'll wait on an actual "generation" type upgrade.

The problem being discussed in this thread is only specific to a handful of games. Most of them will do downsampling just fine when running on a 1080p display.