Polygonal_Sprite
Member
More like Sony want you to upgrade to a 4K HDTV.
Downsampling to 1080p from 1440/1800p really isn't that massive a difference anyway imo, especially if you're sitting more than a few feet away from your display.
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Why are several PS4 Pro games arbitrarily locking 1080p users out of downsampling?
- Thread starter Vashetti
- Start date
More like Sony want you to upgrade to a 4K HDTV.
Downsampling to 1080p from 1440/1800p really isn't that massive a difference anyway imo, especially if you're sitting more than a few feet away from your display.
InsaneTiger
Member
Yup. You know we are getting to the point of diminishing returns.
Bubba_Sparks
Member
So glad I purchased a Slim PS4! I don't think I've missed out on anything with regards to visual fidelity. Also, lol at a dev championing 8x anisotropic filtering in 2017. I built my first real gaming computer seven years ago I don't think I've used anything less than 16x AF since then.
Ideally it would work just like a PC. You put your new component in and if it is capable of giving you some sort of performance boost it will. Hopefully that is the way this goes in the future. Microsoft seems well set up to do so. I wonder if the next iteration of the Xbox will be more like a Steam machine? I think that would be an awesome rout to go.
Sony's marketing message with the PS4 Pro was tellingly non-commital.
Locking out gains for non-4k users only makes the Pro less appealing and loses Sony goodwill. They couldn't even fund patches for the biggest games as an incentive. As a value propostion the Pro is not worth it for 1080p users.
Meanwhile Microsoft have been on-point with explaining how Scorpio will benefit everyone who uses it, regardless of their setup and if we're going to have mid-gen refreshes, they need to offer tangible improvements across the board imo.
Locking out gains for non-4k users only makes the Pro less appealing and loses Sony goodwill. They couldn't even fund patches for the biggest games as an incentive. As a value propostion the Pro is not worth it for 1080p users.
Meanwhile Microsoft have been on-point with explaining how Scorpio will benefit everyone who uses it, regardless of their setup and if we're going to have mid-gen refreshes, they need to offer tangible improvements across the board imo.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
I would have thought this would have been day one in the OS as doesn't PS4 supersample down from 1080p to 720p??
Prithee Be Careful
Industry Professional
So, if TLOU:R already runs at 1080p/60 on the OG PS4, are there any benefits for Pro users at 1080p? If not, that kinda blows.
TLOU runs at 1080p/60 on the OG PS4.
Prithee Be Careful
Industry Professional
Yeah, I edited that.
So, improved shadows and minor frame rate improvement - wow, really putting that horsepower to good use. Reads more like difference you find in DF face-off between PS4 and XB1.
It runs at 4k/30, 1800/60.
The 1080p mode is a locked 60fps (the 1800p mode has some small drops) with improved shadows.
MS has basically had a year to look at Sony's process, marketing, and real-world results to fine-tune their plan and it shows. Genuine kudos to them for doing smart stuff with their box. You can't depend on devs going above and beyond because they won't.
Bruce Springsteen
Member
I think this is the key takeaway, at least for all titles that were not in development while the Pro/Scorpio are out
PhantomThief
Banned
I mean even if MS has been saying the right things and things are looking great for Scorpio hardware wise, they haven't released an interesting exclusive in years. Maybe QB but that wasnt even all that great ( or so I read ).
So they need to step it up in the games department, you know the stuff that actually matters.
It does not, at least not locked. There are countless scenes with drops below 60, which is not a problem, but needed to be mentioned for clarity. On a PS4 Pro at 1080p, the 60 FPS is rock solid no matter what. Not that this is a game where it is essential, though.
The 1800p on the Pro on a 4K display is even a little bit closer to the targeted 60 than the PS4 Amateur. This is why it is a shame not to have that downsampled as an option. Unlike e.g. Horizon, this game doesn't have excellent antialiasing and thus benefits tremendously from supersampling.
The Outlast 2 devs at least acknowledged the topic (Naughty Dog can't be bothered to even answer) and they gave an understandable answer. They at least tried the option and found it inferior to what they shipped. As such, I can accept it.
Tripolygon
Banned
That is how it already works. If a game is running in 4K mode, it auto downsamples to 1080p on 1080p TV, unless a developer specifically turns off the flag for downsampling. Same as boost mode and every other feature on PS4, developers have the ability to disable some features at their discretion. The question is, will Sony give consumers the ability to override the developer?
David Ricardo
Member
I paid 390 for that difference, as I don't intend to buy a 4k tv in the next few years.
A game downscaled from 1800p to 1080p has zero jaggies.
Better res, better framerate, faster loading, more visual effects etc.
Definitely yay for me.
Polygonal_Sprite
Member
Yup but like I said if you sit more than a few feet away from your display those jaggies were difficult to see anyway. Native or CB 4K on a 4K display is a much more dramatic boost especially with HDR than downsampling to 1080p which is an improvement but nothing major outside of screenshot comparisons. Native 1080p PS4 games on an HDTV are already pretty great looking imo.
Grab a copy of Rise of the Tomb Raider, set the output to 1080p in system menu, and then cycle through the game's display modes. Anyone saying there is not much of an image quality difference between High Resolution and High Framerate is either half blind or lying.
Can't believe we are having this discussion again especially in this thread...
Can't believe we are having this discussion again especially in this thread...
David Ricardo
Member
Why would you buy a 4k tv if you are so far away from it that you can't even see the jaggies in a 1080p image?
I'm close enough that I see them. And supersampling fixes that beautifully.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
This is just not true.
Sigh.
Can't believe we are still suffering from "Pro is worthless on 1080p displays" garbage
I'm right there with you. I was really upset when it first happened to TLoU. Then I was about to buy Dishonored 2 only to find out the lack of support there as well. The silence from devs and Sony is extremely annoying. I've gotten over it a bit in the last few months playing games like Yakuza 0 and Persona 5.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Nioh, The Show 17, Mass Effect, Witcher 3, Fallout 4, Deus Ex, and many more run noticeably better on my Pro on my 1080P OLED compared to my launch PS4. Well worth it for me.
Not only that, but even if you have trouble making out the jaggies at a distance, you can still see the shimmering effect, which can be nasty.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
The worst is when first party studios don't bother, like with MLB: The Show. Seeing all those jaggies irks me so much because if Sony studios won't put these options in then why the hell should anybody else?
Titanfall 2 and For Honor are my games of choice, and they also get big bumps in visuals. I sold my PS4 and an extra controller and added $50 to buy a PS4 Pro, and it was absolutely worth it.
I do really hope the speculated Sony firmware system-level refinements come. And I was always going to get a Scorpio as my first Xbone, but its HDMI 2.1 and freesync support are stellar developments.
Paladins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGvHxKkcItI&ab_channel=VGTech
When outputting at 2160p the PS4 Pro uses a dynamic resolution with the lowest pixel count found being approximately 3413x1920 and the highest pixel count found being 3840x2160. When outputting at 1080p the PS4 Pro renders at a native resolution of 1920x1080.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGvHxKkcItI&ab_channel=VGTech
When outputting at 2160p the PS4 Pro uses a dynamic resolution with the lowest pixel count found being approximately 3413x1920 and the highest pixel count found being 3840x2160. When outputting at 1080p the PS4 Pro renders at a native resolution of 1920x1080.
Always-honest
Banned
Still haven't bought a single game that doesn't support this.
Fuuuuuck you.
Fuuuuuck you.
PackAPunchedMick
Member
GOOD FUCK
They got our money, don't think they care what we think anymore.
PackAPunchedMick
Member
Totally. Sony has lost lots of goodwill from me. Never buying a mid gen refresh again, Fuck the treatment of 1080p Pro owners and empty promises.Honestly feel like I've been bait and switched.
VanCityGamer
Member
Exactly. This is what I did back when I played, and the difference shocked me.
Which is why I'm so sad TLOU took away downsampling.
I jumped on the Pro when I thought FFXV was going to be massively improved via patch sometime in December. I should've waited for the patch. I traded my day 1 PS4 towards it, but I still have my 20th Anniversary edition (which I needed to finish World of Final Fantasy when it was still broken on the Pro).
I wasn't using the day one much, but I still don't feel like I got my monies worth in the upgrade, which makes the omission of this feature burn so much more. Obviously it's subjective, but I was hoping for more framerate improvements and that's clearly not what the Pro is about.
I wasn't using the day one much, but I still don't feel like I got my monies worth in the upgrade, which makes the omission of this feature burn so much more. Obviously it's subjective, but I was hoping for more framerate improvements and that's clearly not what the Pro is about.
Maybe I'll do when they offer real 4K and no this F4KE shit.
Wasted opportunity...
Any chance Sony changes gears on this and mandates 1080p down sampling for 1080p users like MS with Scorpio? It feels like this is breaking a key promise Sony made to consumers with Pro (that 1080p users would benefit too). It's also especially disheartening/frustrating that the devs doing this are radio silent as to why. I mean, why are they doing this to us? From what I understand, supersampling is automatic and has to be actively disabled by Devs (correct me if I'm wrong) so there must be some reasoning for it besides "oh, we thought everybody with a Pro had a 4K TV, herp-a-derp".
Yeah, now that the early hype and attention have moved away from the Pro, devs aren't putting in any effort at all. Sony needs to update their mandates or enable system-level, automatic process asap.
This is one part I still don't get. iirc Sony never explicitly promised downsampling all they says was 1080p users would get improves like downsampling which is in contrast to MS that have explicitly promised it(The right approach) so whilst I get the disappointment I don't understand things like this when there was never an expectation that all games would have it unless am remember Cerny's words wrong.
Anyways I do hope they work out a solution in time similar to MS that is system wide by default or at user configurable as I probably will end of getting a Pro once I decide to Jump into PS4 ecosystem.
And we get games with zero improvements.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Why are you blaming this on Sony ?
SMOK3Y
Generous Member
Did Sony make this game?
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Some games do downsampling with no issues on Pro, so it has to be a game development decision, although it's a very odd one and makes little sense.
If all Scorpio games get downsampling, it seems like they will, then maybe Sony will make it mandatory on Pro or maybe developers will just start to do it, as they will be already doing it on Scorpio.
If all Scorpio games get downsampling, it seems like they will, then maybe Sony will make it mandatory on Pro or maybe developers will just start to do it, as they will be already doing it on Scorpio.
MrMephistoX
Member
I did too and am happy with the results...I've gotten accustomed to it but when I first upgraded the visual upgrade was a night and day difference to me.
InsaneTiger
Member
One would hope.
RedAssedApe
Banned
This is the game I always reference too. The improvement in image quality due to shimmering being basically eliminated in 4K mode is so good. Pick it over high detail and high frame rate any day.
OdysseusVA
Banned
It should be a mandate considering they were selling downsampling at its reveal?