i feel like i might be the only person who really loves the enemies in dmc3 (besides the ghosts who are nothing and the big faced angels who can be an irritating pain)Shame about the enemies though. Absolute garbage.
Excellent opener and closer but very muddled pacing in the middle act of the game. That's definitely a game where they needed a better ebb and flow of the action because a lot of the time you were just running from enemy groups to enemy groups.Rising's pacing trumps all action games. Fuck whatever else you can say about it. Nothing has ever gave me a rush like the first and final bosses and i've played all the top action games.
Story laughable and cutscenes cringeworthy compared to the first game? Seriously?
The pacing actually isn't necessarily tied to the story or writing. Very little of what you've written is relevant. Did you read the OP? It's very specific about what it's addressing.
Bloodborne's pacing (and Souls games in general) varies dramatically on how the player progresses in the game. It's a different case than these more straight forward action games.But what about about Bloodborne?
I actually really agree with this. I started MGR and was digging it, but at a certain point I just kind of got bored of it, never finished it.Excellent opener and closer but very muddled pacing in the middle act of the game. That's definitely a game where they needed a better ebb and flow of the action because a lot of the time you were just running from enemy groups to enemy groups.
DMC1 has some pacing issues when you really sit back and analyze the layouts and when they decided to repeat the boss fights. Still great overall pacing but it's not as clean as what they did with DMC3. The last act of DMC1 is better than 3's last act though mostly because the backtracking segment was handled better.
The flying segment at the end is fine because it's like a final victory lap thing. It's harmless at the worst.That on rails flying segment tho.....
Yah MGR sewer level is shit, after a well structured first level. Also you could tell the game was being rushed around this level.I actually really agree with this. I started MGR and was digging it, but at a certain point I just kind of got bored of it, never finished it.
I'm sure the later fights that everyone always talks about are awesome but (in my opinion) people give it a little more credit than it deserves as a whole. Bosses and QTE's with music are rad but the actual running around fighting stuff is on the lesser side of these kind of games I've played
Good Pacing and combat is what made Ninja Gaiden Black so damn good. In my mind nothing and I repeat nothing will match or beat Ninja Gaiden Black.
DMC3SE has aged better overall and is more replayable, but I'm gonna have to argue that God of War 2 is better paced. (Also RE4 and Uncharted 2 as mentioned in the OP and The Last of Us, but I consider God of War 2 a much closer comparison)
Good Pacing and combat is what made Ninja Gaiden Black so damn good. In my mind nothing and I repeat nothing will match or beat Ninja Gaiden Black.
I was never a fan of NGB's because of the auto-targeting, and the fact you were better off using only a couple combos and weapons throughout the entire game (lower difficulties just spam flying swallow). Never felt I was in control of the combat (and also having to chain UTs is pretty boring imo). I felt with DMC3 you are in control of the combat, combos (no dial a combo), and even the dodging you have more control over where you land (I felt with dodging I would just try to get away without much control, while in DMC you choose the spot you want to dodge to).This is pretty much how I feel (not as extreme though) but I also feel like Bayonetta comes close in the gameplay department(or even exceeds it). I like DMC3's story and crazy scenes but that's pretty much where it ends for me. All of those crazy combo videos you see of DMC3 are neato but it is also extremely excessive and not really how the majority likely plays. It feels good to pull off a combo where it flowed well from start to finish but it just doesn't feel as fluid or nearly as good as Ninja Gaiden or Bayonetta to me. Coming off of Ninja Gaiden to DMC3 that was instantly the first thing I noticed about the combat and enemies. 'Oh, a statue that has a lot of HP, let me spam the same 3 or 4 combos over and over til these things go away'. That kind of first impression was really disappointing to me. At that point, I figured 'well, this game must be all about the combos'. I love combos, don't get me wrong, but the amount of HP the enemies have eventually turns the combat into a chore with me mixing things up just enough to keep the combo meter going up but not really being enthused enough to come up with new combos. At times, it even feels downright messy to keep your S rank style up.
I also think the puzzles need some serious work, they just aren't fun and something I always dread doing in DMC games. Gameplay wise, I just don't agree about the pacing. Some of the bosses give you those real good highs like first time Vergil or Cerberus and Mission 8 intro scene but I didn't care about Vergil or the story near the end because the game put me through the ringer by then with the fixed camera shifting when I didn't want it to, lame puzzles with bad platforming, and boss fights that go on for too long, like that Undead Chariot guy later in the game.
It's a good action game but I have always considered it overrated and have 0 desire to replay it anymore than I already have.
Remember it's stylish action, not efficient action.
Well the good thing about that is that Itsuno recognized this, and that's why DMC4 enemies feel great to fight against. It doesn't help that they are mostly designed around Nero, but they are all fun to fight against (except parasited enemies, fuck that).And it can be played how you want it to be played. You don't need to have to ability to do absurd combos to have fun with the game, but you certainly can if you're disciplined enough to learn.
DMC is about creative freedom in combat. Giving the player options and tools, and then letting them do what they want with them.
The main grievance that people have concerning DMC3's enemies are that they cater themselves too strongly to one particular weaponset or style, which as Seyavesh points out, is a design choice. Perhaps this design choice is to their detriment, but the goal was to encourage experimentation by the player.
I was never a fan of NGB's because of the auto-targeting, and the fact you were better off using only a couple combos and weapons throughout the entire game (lower difficulties just spam flying swallow). Never felt I was in control of the combat (and also having to chain UTs is pretty boring imo). I felt with DMC3 you are in control of the combat, combos (no dial a combo), and even the dodging you have more control over where you land (I felt with dodging I would just try to get away without much control, while in DMC you choose the spot you want to dodge to).
I'll say NGB had better enemies and difficulty spikes, but with how the combat plays out I don't have too much desire to replay it.
better roll mechanics in DMC3? are fucking kidding me? LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Goz5QD7E_dI
there's also a lot more wrong, but i told myself i wouldn't get sucked into this one since gaf is DMC/Bayonetta country without many NGB players (which is fine.) so, i'm out.
I was never a fan of NGB's because of the auto-targeting, and the fact you were better off using only a couple combos and weapons throughout the entire game (lower difficulties just spam flying swallow). Never felt I was in control of the combat (and also having to chain UTs is pretty boring imo). I felt with DMC3 you are in control of the combat, combos (no dial a combo), and even the dodging you have more control over where you land (I felt with dodging I would just try to get away without much control, while in DMC you choose the spot you want to dodge to).
I'll say NGB had better enemies and difficulty spikes, but with how the combat plays out I don't have too much desire to replay it.
NGB's movement is really nuanced. There's more to it than meets the eye. But, in the end it's about function over options. They're just two different approaches to overall movement, and some people will prefer one over the other.
On VH and MNM and in mission mode, you'll be using every last thing in that vid if you don't want to suck, aside from on-landing jump.
Well I'd agree rolling in DMC3 feels awful, but trickster and the invincibility for jumping feels great for evading. I feel like DMC4 the dodging would be great if they made rolling into a table hopper dodge by default. It also felt in DMC4 that the rolling isn't as bad as in DMC3.Your NG complaints are valid, I even feel the same way, minus the UTs. I just don't prefer the feel of DMC3 at all. With exceptions of charge attacks, I don't like the way attacking feels in DMC comparatively. Gonna have to agree to disagree about the rolling though. I personally feel the jumping and rolling (not that it isn't effective, it is) is a highlighted weak point of 3 and 4. It almost feels like a Dark Souls fat roll to me. The jumping also feels like you're instantly about to come down the moment you jump forward, kinda like that Tonk Hawk 5 slam down mechanic. Lol.
I know. I've played MNM exhaustively on NGB, and cleared most, if not all, of the Mission Mode on MNM. I'm no stranger to these mechanics.
Then you know that they're not movement "options."
agreed it's two different approaches. I feel NGB is a bit more natural, DMC3 more technical, but that could probably apply to the entirety of both games.