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[Nocturnowl]

It only started with WW. TP and SS are the worst offenders.

WWHD somewhat fixes the problems with the original WW... from what I understand, TPHD does not.

I wouldn't say it really fixed things, more like placing a band aid on the triforce hunt, I think fixes would be giving them too much credit for what amounted to "how about instead of triforce charts some of the chests actually just had the triforce piece in already?" and there was much rejoicing.

Unfortunately Ganon's Lair is still the most miserable finale the series has limped to.

 

[Shuggananas]

As I argued earlier, OoT has it too - the entire Adult Link section, with exceptions, is just retreading. Granted it's due to technical limitations and thus is more excusable than the Wind Waker and Twilight Princess stuff, but it still qualifies as padding.

I don't understand this, adult link is basically :
get hookshot > forest temple > get goron tunic > fire temple > get iron boots/zora tunic (new areas !) > water temple > get lens of truth (new area !) > shadow temple > go to gerudo valley (new area !) > do some stuff (ok there's a bit of padding here with the gerudo fortress maybe) > desert (new area !) > spirit temple > ganondorf

I don't see padding at all here, besides the gerudo fortress.

 

[Ninjimbo]

The devs probably think it's fun to do which, most of the time, it is especially if we're talking about Skyward Sword. All the extra adventures go a long towards making the game feel more epic too which is something of a lost art in this day and age with every game trying to truncate itself into 10 hours. One of the reasons why I prefer the 3D Zeldas is because the adventures feel larger than life. You do so many different things. You go through so many trials that by the end you can definitely feel like you've just had a one of a kind quest. You feel like you've earned it. Well, I do anyway.

The 2D games, as great as they are, they feel lacking in that department. They feel small. You can finish them quick and they have little downtime, but it's ultimately to their detriment.

Of course, I'm splitting hairs here. The 2D Zelda games are still phenomenal works of art. I'll just never put a single 2D entry over ANY of the 3D games.

 

[Shinigami]

I'm playing through Twilight Princess HD and while the dungeons are exquisite, I'm left with the question - why do the geniuses behind Zelda feel the need to put so much time wasting crap in their games? It really blows my mind. H

First off, I want to say that this is not just referring to Twilight, Skyward, and Wind Waker which have obvious fetch quests meant to make the game longer.

But OOT has it (although out of all 3D games it is the least offensive) and Majoras Mask certainly has it. Besides Tears of light in TP, ive never wanted to throw my controller at the screen more than then "get two milk bottles" and "three whatever" near the end of MM. It was so frustrating as was the collecting all the eggs and other fetch quests.

It brings me to my question: These games are plenty long, they are filled with amazingly designed dungeons (besides the back half of Wind Waker) and fun gameplay loops. Why do they insert these time wasters that drag the game down? Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword still offer 25-30 hours of awesome material if you took away the mindless filler. Why do they keep doing this? Did they not learn from the MM or the triforce quest in WW?

Sorry, I just needed to rant. This is why LBW is probably my favorite Zelda game because it cuts this shit out and gives you meat the whole way through. I hope Zelda U follows suit.

Please explain how Majora's Mask has padding. That game is probably one of the tightest experiences in the franchise. In my opinion, of course.

 

[LegendofLex]

Things I'd consider padding:

- Collect-a-thons where progress in the game suddenly stops until you go and collect X number of Y objects. Less egregious when the game lets you gather these collectibles at any time (Triforce Shards in TWW, Relics/Keys in Metroid Prime), not just once you reach the bottleneck where they're required (Tears of Light in TP and SS, Sky Letters in TP, pretty much all collectibles in SS). Items you get for beating a dungeon (Spiritual Stones/Medallions in OoT, Boss Masks in MM, etc.) don't count since these items are basically just progress markers for the dungeons themselves, which aren't padding.

This can also include items where quantities don't matter, but the game basically grinds to a halt at a certain point until you get them, and they aren't useful for anything but advancing the plot.

- Anytime that you're required to backtrack through an area, apart from returning to the area explicitly to access a portion of that area that was previously inaccessible. Having to go through an entire area again without the benefit of shortcuts also counts as padding even if it's to reach a new area.

Examples of pointless backtracking: second trip to Forsaken Fortress in TWW, second time facing Skull Kid in the Lost Woods in TP, going through Skyview Temple a second time in SS.

Examples of good backtracking: returning to Faron Woods to climb the Great Tree and access Lake Floria in SS, going to the Ice Cavern via Zora's Fountain in OoT, revisiting old areas in OoT as an adult (you can take advantage of shortcuts you discovered as a kid).

- Long strings of NPC-driven content that might have also made sense as a sidequest. If it could have been a sidequest, it doesn't need to bog down progress through the main content unless the player chooses to pursue it.

Examples: Everything that happens in the Ordon Village portion of the TP tutorial, up to the part where you head into Faron Woods. The game could have eliminated this segment entirely and given you access to the sword at any time of your choosing from the get go.

- Any time a minigame is required to complete the main quest of a game, unless the minigame explicitly serves as a method of traversal to a new area.

Example: Having to fly through Zora's River once was an interesting method of traversal to Zora's Domain. Having to fly through it a second time to collect Shadow Bugs was a pointless forced minigame.

 

[Firemind]

As I argued earlier, OoT has it too - the entire Adult Link section, with exceptions, is just retreading. Granted it's due to technical limitations and thus is more excusable than the Wind Waker and Twilight Princess stuff, but it still qualifies as padding.

By your definiton, the entire Dark World in LttP is padding.

Introducing an area through the dark world version. Excluding maybe the forest, the bugs are usually also connected to completely different challenges and tasks. Technically, there's also no reason that there are so many dungeons. Other than TP being an amazing game with lots of variety and great content.

But they don't offer any interesting gameplay ? All you do is do the spin attack on those dark dwellers and collect bugs. You can't even interact with anyone in this state. It's all a bunch of time wasting.

 

[Blobbers]

As much as I wanna blame it on that hack Aonuma, a gut feeling tells me this might be something Miyamoto insists on. It's really suffocating. Yeah, that's the word. Suffocating.

 

[Lunar15]

This whole issue is why SS is actually one of my favorite Zeldas. I'm the kind of person that defines the meat of a Zelda game to be dungeons, puzzles, and combat, and SS focuses so exclusively on those three elements, even between dungeons. Everywhere I went, I felt like I was doing something in a dungeon, and that's why that game sticks out so much. It's not that there aren't things I disliked (lookin' at you tadtones and that escort quest), it's just that the game had so much quality content everywhere.

Now, if you define a Zelda differently, like, through the lens of world exploration being the meat of the game, then SS would feel immensely padded as you're constantly forced into these areas of combat and puzzles. So, I get why the game's divisive.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I don't understand this, adult link is basically :
get hookshot > forest temple > get goron tunic > fire temple > get iron boots/zora tunic (new areas !) > water temple > get lens of truth (new area !) > shadow temple > go to gerudo valley (new area !) > do some stuff (ok there's a bit of padding here with the gerudo fortress maybe) > desert (new area !) > spirit temple > ganondorf

I don't see padding at all here, besides the gerudo fortress.

1. Go to Kokiri Forest a second time
2. Go to Death Mountain a second time
3. Go to Zora's Domain a second time
4. Go to Kakariko Village a second time

etc. etc. etc.

Without the Gerudo Fortress/Desert stuff, the Adult Link section sorely lacks new areas. Most of the new areas are dungeons/mini-dungeons.

By your definiton, the entire Dark World in LttP is padding.


But they don't offer any interesting gameplay ? All you do is do the spin attack on those dark dwellers and collect bugs. You can't even interact with anyone in this state. It's all a bunch of time wasting.

The Dark World engages in reskinned areas to some extent, but much of the overworld is redesigned so that you need to approach it a different way. To compare, Kokiri Forest is only different in that they add new enemies to old areas, whereas the Eastern Palace area now has a forest maze and must be traversed in an entirely different way.

 

[Afrocious]

I think padding ITT is defined as stuff you gotta do before getting into a dungeon. In that regard, all 3D Zelda's have this. I think it's fine if it's fun and flavorful. MM sticks out to me because you were actively helping people in order to get into these dungeons and you end up undoing everything you did anyway.

 

[Griss]

OoT was devoid of padding. It was flawlessly paced. MM wasn't bad either.

Since then it has certainly become a major issue.

As I argued earlier, OoT has it too - the entire Adult Link section, with exceptions, is just retreading. Granted it's due to technical limitations and thus is more excusable than the Wind Waker and Twilight Princess stuff, but it still qualifies as padding.

Wait, what? Anything that's not a new area is padding? Some of the old 'areas' had new locations in them as an adults - Gerudo Fortress, the desert itself, the Volcano crater etc.

 

[RagnarokX]

Tadtones were tedious and did absolutely nothing except take up time. At least there are puzzles to be solved when moving the owl statues in TP.


Wait, really? Your defending Skyward Sword and in the same breath complaining that another game makes you repeat an area? Everything in Skyward Sword past the third dungeon is a rehash of areas you've already been to. Not to even mention the fucking Imprisoned fight that was bad enough the first time and doesn't get any better the next three times you fight him.

Pretty much everything you do before every dungeon in TP except for snowboarding feels like a chore. Tear collecting, sumo wrestling, skull kid chasing, fishing, goat herding, trekking through the same empty ugly places over and over. SS had way more fun stuff to do.

People mention returning to areas when discussing SS. In SS you access new areas within the 3 areas, just like previous Zelda's. In OoT you went to the forest for 2 dungeons, Death Mountain for 3 dungeons, Zora/Lake for 2 dungeons, and Desert for 1. In TP you have to cross that same area of Faron Wood like 5 goddamn times. Oh no! This time a monkey stole your lantern! Follow it slowly through the poison fog! TP you have to go to the forest for 2 dungeon and filler crap, Death Mountain for 1 dungeon and filler crap, Zora/Lake for 4 dungeons, but 2 of those are in new areas you access from that area. With SS each area has 2 dungeons. You complete half the area before the first dungeon and second half for the second. For example you complete Faron Woods the first trip. Second trip you do a Silent Relm to open the Lake Floria area and go there. Lanayru Desert has the amazing sand sea area. Eldin Volcano has the smallest second area.

 

[Firemind]

1. Go to Kokiri Forest a second time
2. Go to Death Mountain a second time
3. Go to Zora's Domain a second time
4. Go to Kakariko Village a second time

etc. etc. etc.

Without the Gerudo Fortress/Desert stuff, the Adult Link section sorely lacks new areas. Most of the new areas are dungeons/mini-dungeons.

You do know they're all changed because of the passage of time? Like I said, LttP does the exact same thing but apparently you don't consider that padding?

 

[entremet]

My issue is why do people want to go from dungeon to dungeon to dungeon so quickly?

Give me some breathing room.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Please explain how Majora's Mask has padding. That game is probably one of the tightest experiences in the franchise. In my opinion, of course.

Well it has a few fetchquest like moments...

"Leeeave it!
Leeeave me something crunchy that sprouts leaves when watered"

I bet no one ever entered that well the first time prepared with magic beans of all things.

 

[Afrocious]

My issue is why do people want to go from dungeon to dungeon to dungeon so quickly?

Give me some breathing room.

I agree. However I felt SS did this to a severe degree.

 

[Übermatik]

Can't honestly think of any padding in OoT or MM. Not denying that it exists, but it obviously wasn't awkward enough for me to remember it.

 

[Lunar15]

Pretty much everything you do before every dungeon in TP except for snowboarding feels like a chore. Tear collecting, sumo wrestling, skull kid chasing, fishing, goat herding, trekking through the same empty ugly places over and over. SS had way more fun stuff to do.

People mention returning to areas when discussing SS. In SS you access new areas within the 3 areas, just like previous Zelda's. In OoT you went to the forest for 2 dungeons, Death Mountain for 3 dungeons, Zora/Lake for 2 dungeons, and Desert for 1. In TP you have to cross that same area of Faron Wood like 5 goddamn times. Oh no! This time a monkey stole your lantern! Follow it slowly through the poison fog! TP you have to go to the forest for 2 dungeon and filler crap, Death Mountain for 1 dungeon and filler crap, Zora/Lake for 4 dungeons, but 2 of those are in new areas you access from that area. With SS each area has 2 dungeons. You complete half the area before the first dungeon and second half for the second. For example you complete Faron Woods the first trip. Second trip you do a Silent Relm to open the Lake Floria area and go there. Lanayru Desert has the amazing sand sea area. Eldin Volcano has the smallest second area.

I'm telling you man, it's a perception thing. Some people just approach Zelda differently. I'm completely on the same page as you, and I even like twilight princess, a lot!

What we view as content vs. padding is completely different for other people. It's frustrating, but I've learned to just go with it. Plus, it's not as if there hasn't been a general creep in the amount of activites between dungeons, regardless of whether or not they're fun. I get why ALBW was so loved while SS was so divisive. A lot of it comes down to how you're locked into content without being able to go do something else. You and I personally enjoyed that content, but for some, the feeling of being locked into that content without the ability to go do something else is claustrophobic and "anti-zelda" to a wide swath of people (ignoring the fact that MM largely operates on this design as well) These are also going to be the same people that see no value in fighting the imprisoned again and getting faster every time with the new tools you have. It's a perception thing.

Aonuma's comments on the next Zelda give me some hope, because I think he learned a bit from both games. The fact that you can "approach things from different angles" gives me hope that they're able to provide the tight map design of SS with some of the more open ended nature of ALBW.

 

[zenpuff]

My issue is why do people want to go from dungeon to dungeon to dungeon so quickly?

Give me some breathing room.

I spent a lot of time in LBW collecting things and finding secrets, it was just good to know I could advance whenever I wanted without *having* to go back to a place I was before or talk to a person I already talked to.

 

[Spieler Eins]

But they don't offer any interesting gameplay ? All you do is do the spin attack on those dark dwellers and collect bugs. You can't even interact with anyone in this state. It's all a bunch of time wasting.

Collecting bugs was also tied to puzzles and exploring, especially since the second part. Then also to a fun flight minigame during the lake part. Which also had a unique boss fight. All of the wolf segments additionally offer a unique view on the world which enhances the world building and atmosphere (already starting with infiltrating the village, then the dark world, then sneaking into the castle through the tavern).

 

[Shuggananas]

Can't honestly think of any padding in OoT or MM. Not denying that it exists, but it obviously wasn't awkward enough for me to remember it.

Ikana well and zora eggs if you don't have 4 bottles (you probably won't at this point). That's about it.

Stuff to access dungeons isn't padding by default though lmao

 

[A Link to the Past]

You do know they're all changed because of the passage of time? Like I said, LttP does the exact same thing but apparently you don't consider that padding?

I do not, no, as I explain above. There are massive visual and layout changes between the Light and Dark World, that far exceed what OoT does. I have no problem with padding - you look at the latter areas in many games Nintendo makes, you'll see a lot of recycling. Both ALttP and OoT engage in that :v

OoT was devoid of padding. It was flawlessly paced. MM wasn't bad either.

Since then it has certainly become a major issue.



Wait, what? Anything that's not a new area is padding? Some of the old 'areas' had new locations in them as an adults - Gerudo Fortress, the desert itself, the Volcano crater etc.

It's backtracking. If we look at the first three dungeons in Adult Link section, you can't access them until you get what is essentially a key - Forest Temple is accessed with the Hookshot, Fire Temple is accessed with the Goron Tunic, and Water Temple is accessed with the Zora Tunic.

Backtracking is not inherently a bad thing, and I don't regard OoT's padding as bad either - I actually find it very interesting, both in terms of how they do it in-game and it serving as an example of how Nintendo cleverly gets around limitations.

 

[Jeronimo Jones]

I recently finished ALBW on 3DS to check the series out.

I loosely expected to do ALBW then maybe MM, (because I didn't expect I'd want to play them all) but after finishing ALBW, I'm not particularly motivated to play another. It wasn't bad, but simple. Maybe I should try a 3D one next.

Sounds like the games are different enough from each other so it will be interesting reading differing opinions on them in this thread.

 

[Red Hood]

Can't honestly think of any padding in OoT or MM. Not denying that it exists, but it obviously wasn't awkward enough for me to remember it.

I'm not so sure about that, both the Zora Eggs and Beneath the Well immediately come to mind.

 

[Crayolan]

Examples of pointless backtracking: second trip to Forsaken Fortress in TWW,

Man I don't agree with this at all. I loved the second trip to the Forsaken Fortress, it's a great feeling to be able to break into the fortress on your own and just tear shit up now that you're so much more powerful. The actual retreading is really short too, most of the time there is taken up fighting Phantom Ganon and Helmaroc King.

 

[LegendofLex]

My issue is why do people want to go from dungeon to dungeon to dungeon so quickly?

Give me some breathing room.

I think the issue is that people want to be free to discover content naturally, at their own pace. They don't want the game constantly forcing them to do a certain specific thing if they don't want their progress to grind to a halt.

 

[georly]

My issue is why do people want to go from dungeon to dungeon to dungeon so quickly?

Give me some breathing room.

Give me the option to do either. Let me go straight from dungeon A to B if I want. Or, let me explore, do side quests, whatever, if I want. Zelda 1, ALttP, ALBW basically let you do this, for the most part. It makes replaying the games more enjoyable, too, knowing you can skip the side-content you liked the least. First time through, i'm almost assuredly going to explore and talk to every NPC and check every cave in between dungeons - and that's a choice i'm being given.

I think the issue is that people want to be free to discover content naturally, at their own pace. They don't want the game constantly forcing them to do a certain specific thing if they don't want their progress to grind to a halt.

Yup. So much zelda content could have been made as a side quest and the games would have been richer because of it.


Also, i'm doing nothing but criticizing these games, but I love them dearly. It's just the ones with the most padding get the least replaying out of me.

 

[Ragnorok64]

There is an obvious bra joke in this, but I just can't piece it together.

 

[Anth0ny]

I have to disagree. TWW's padding is by far the worst, especially considering that game has such little actual meat to it.

I'd say TP's padding is all front-loaded, It doesn't suffer from the back paddding quite as much as TWW and SS do. That said, SS's padding is in general pretty great. The dragon quests are pretty fun, aside from the tadtones. Personally, I would have moved those to be optional instead of required. I think it would cut down on issues.

I think it's going to come down to "how do you define padding"?

Exactly. I think in the case of this thread, padding refers to "boring repetitive shit that, if it was not in the game, the game would be better off". which is why

As I argued earlier, OoT has it too - the entire Adult Link section, with exceptions, is just retreading. Granted it's due to technical limitations and thus is more excusable than the Wind Waker and Twilight Princess stuff, but it still qualifies as padding.

is not padding.

When I think of padding, I think of:

-TP's intro that teaches you a bunch of random useless shit in a super drawn out matter. Forced tutorial.
-The tear quests in TP
-The triforce quest and boss rush at the end of WW
-Forced tutorials at the beginning of SS
-The silent realm tear quests in SS
-tadtones in SS

Nothing in OOT or MM qualify imo. Nothing in those games is as overly drawn out as TP's intro, or repetitive as the tear collectathons in TP or SS.

 

[entremet]

Can't honestly think of any padding in OoT or MM. Not denying that it exists, but it obviously wasn't awkward enough for me to remember it.

The side content in MM destroyed the actual dungeons.

 

[Shuggananas]

Man I don't agree with this at all. I loved the second trip to the Forsaken Fortress, it's a great feeling to be able to break into the fortress on your own and just tear shit up now that you're so much more powerful. The actual retreading is really short too, most of the time there is taken up fighting Phantom Ganon and Helmaroc King.

If anything the first time is padding though. That shit was plain trash.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Exactly. I think in the case of this thread, padding refers to "boring repetitive shit that, if it was not in the game, the game would be better off". which is why



is not padding.

When I think of padding, I think of:

-TP's intro that teaches you a bunch of random useless shit in a super drawn out matter. Forced tutorial.
-The tear quests in TP
-The triforce quest and boss rush at the end of WW
-Forced tutorials at the beginning of SS
-The silent realm tear quests in SS
-tadtones in SS

Nothing in OOT or MM qualify imo. Nothing in those games is as overly drawn out as TP's intro, or repetitive as the tear collectathons in TP or SS.

As I noted, I don't think that OoT did padding bad, but IMO, it's still there. It's merely there however for the sake of overcoming limitations. I'd certainly agree it unfair to compare it to TWW, TP, or SS in that respect (though even then, I think TWW doesn't deserve to be grouped with TP or SS either :v)

 

[Lunar15]

-TP's intro that teaches you a bunch of random useless shit in a super drawn out matter. Forced tutorial.
-The tear quests in TP
-The triforce quest and boss rush at the end of WW
-Forced tutorials at the beginning of SS
-The silent realm tear quests in SS
-tadtones in SS

I personally liked the silent realm tear quests in SS, despite expecting to hate them based on the fact that I wasn't big on the tear quests in TP. Link's mobility helped out here. But once again, I think it's less the quality of the content and more the feeling of being locked into a challenge in order to continue that bugs people. And that I understand.

Ever since TWW, the Zelda team has had a very weird obsession with removing link from his sword. I'm not quite sure I get why that's an element that repeats in every game. You could even argue that's in MM, with how you're stuck in the deku form for the first section and have to find the fairies/bombers. While I have greatly enjoyed some of these challenges (The silent realm stuff/the stealth section in Eldin Volcano) I completely get why this would be really perplexing to a lot of people. It's something the Zelda team really needs to sit down and look at.

 

[MrSaturn99]

OOT and MM are practically void of pacing. No problem there.

For TWW, there's no denying the The Triforce Quest was padding, but enjoying the game really comes down to how much you enjoy sailing. Personally, I love it and think it's quite cathartic, but with how acquiring a number of the charts boils down to "beat trove of monsters in x area", I can see how it'd burn people out. (I actually think how the HD version streamlines the process only further shows how the whole quest is clumsily shoehorned in) Before that, I think it's decently paced aside from the Nayru's Pearl thing.

TP and SS are far worse in this area if you ask me, although I think the latter might be like TWW in that enjoying it comes down to whether or not you like dowsing (I didn't).

 

[Firemind]

The Dark World engages in reskinned areas to some extent, but much of the overworld is redesigned so that you need to approach it a different way. To compare, Kokiri Forest is only different in that they add new enemies to old areas, whereas the Eastern Palace area now has a forest maze and must be traversed in an entirely different way.

I'd argue OoT does the same thing; you need to approach every old area differently as Young/Adult Link.

Fire Temple: Inside the volcano which was off limits as Young Link.
Water Temple: Frozen Zora's Domain opens up Ice Caverns.
Shadow Temple: Bottom of the Well
Spirit Temple: Do different things as Young/Adult Link

 

[DownGrader]

-The silent realm tear quests in SS

Silent Realm quest were, like, the last and the ultimate test of knowledge of location's geography, as well as thrilling change of pace. It's not fair to put it on the same shelf with goat herding, sumo wrestling etc., which were mostly at the beginning and tested shit.

 

[Spieler Eins]

The side content in MM destroyed the actual dungeons.

True. Despite the dungeons still being pretty ace. MM was the first Zelda I've finished myself, so dungeons weren't ever the entire meat of the game for me. There can be padding and there was padding in certain parts, but it's like people consider anything ,,not in a dungeon" padding.
The series is about variety for me. So give me the snowboarding, western shootouts, wolf exploring, minigames, lots of NPCs, etc.
I find it hard going back to ALTTP, the world just feels barren and focusing on the parcours-esque dungeons isn't all that great (Zelda 1 is much better when it comes to pure exploration).

 

[littlebigman]

It's a problem with 3D adventure games in general, I've found. So much dialog to mash A through, so many menus, so many tutorials, so much empty hub world to run across on your way to the good parts, and by the time the game actually starts I've lost interest. This is part of why I love Skyrim so much, because it just gets straight to the good stuff and the tutorials are integrated into the game naturally.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Why would anyone dislike the sumo wrestling in TP? You got to slap Gorons in the face!

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I vote in favor of the silent realm tear quests in SS. Yes its another example of them trying to get the most utility possible out of the three playspaces they made, but they were a good remix with an interesting structure. Much more compelling than running back to the first mediocre dungeon to get some water in a jar.

 

[Anth0ny]

As I noted, I don't think that OoT did padding bad, but IMO, it's still there. It's merely there however for the sake of overcoming limitations. I'd certainly agree it unfair to compare it to TWW, TP, or SS in that respect (though even then, I think TWW doesn't deserve to be grouped with TP or SS either :v)

WW definitely isn't as offensive as TP or SS (especially WWHD), but the end of that game was blatant, negative padding. I had to add it to the list. Ultimately, WW is a masterpiece in spite of those shortcomings. I can't apply the same praise to TP or SS.

As for people bringing up the Zora eggs and beneath the well in MM... Zora eggs I don't buy because you essentially got a mini dungeon out of that quest in the Pirates' Fortress. The Pinnacle Rock eggs is one or two visits at the very most. And nothing involving the majesty that is Zora swimming in MM can ever be considered tedious.

Beneath the well comes a bit closer, but again, you're at least exploring the world and collecting various things. You can also find a lot of the items you need IN the well if you look hard enough! Either way, exploring the world for items is much more fun than something like the TP tear collecting, which has you looking for the same thing 15 times in a small area as boring ass wolf link. It's certainly not offensive enough to land on my list of tedious padding shit in 3D Zeldas.

I personally liked the silent realm tear quests in SS, despite expecting to hate them based on the fact that I wasn't big on the tear quests in TP. Link's mobility helped out here. But once again, I think it's less the quality of the content and more the feeling of being locked into a challenge in order to continue that bugs people. And that I understand.

Ever since TWW, the Zelda team has had a very weird obsession with removing link from his sword. I'm not quite sure I get why that's an element that repeats in every game. You could even argue that's in MM, with how you're stuck in the deku form for the first section and have to find the fairies/bombers. While I have greatly enjoyed some of these challenges (The silent realm stuff/the stealth section in Eldin Volcano) I completely get why this would be really perplexing to a lot of people. It's something the Zelda team really needs to sit down and look at.

The bolded nails my problem with the SS tear quests. I think it's a pretty cool idea... as a side quest. But as something that gates your progress through the main game? I don't know. I think SS would have been better off without them.

 

[HeresSomeWeapons]

When I think of padding, I think of:

-TP's intro that teaches you a bunch of random useless shit in a super drawn out matter. Forced tutorial.
-The tear quests in TP
-The triforce quest and boss rush at the end of WW
-Forced tutorials at the beginning of SS
-The silent realm tear quests in SS
-tadtones in SS

Does this include the part where you have to track down all the furry woodland creatures with the dowsing rod before even being able to enter the first dungeon? I almost forgot how awful that was.

 

[Kinsei]

My issue is why do people want to go from dungeon to dungeon to dungeon so quickly?

Give me some breathing room.

I don't care if it takes a while to get to dungeons (Majora's Mask is my favorite Zelda), but I want the content in between to be fun which a lot of 3D Zelda games have trouble doing.

Collecting bugs was also tied to puzzles and exploring, especially since the second part. Then also to a fun flight minigame during the lake part. Which also had a unique boss fight. All of the wolf segments additionally offer a unique view on the world which enhances the world building and atmosphere (already starting with infiltrating the village, then the dark world, then sneaking into the castle through the tavern).

I don't think going to the highlighted point on your map is good exploration, I don't think forcing you to climb death mountain twice with almost no change except the second time you're slowed down by Gorons every few steps is good world building. And I don't think the characters are interesting enough for good atmosphere.

I personally think the bird riding mini game is the opposite of fun.

 

[Jackano]

It's not because dungeons are the best part of Zelda games that everything in between is to skip.
Sure they have hard time since TWW to revigorate the formula but exploration is a great deal inside the series since TLoZ too.
Mostly because Nintendo's hardware they are late to the open-world party, we will see with Zelda U

Spoiler

NX

.

But I agree that some of their attempts are failure. I know people don't like the Triforce quest in TWW or tears of light in TP (which I find awesome for the later and decently cool as tears of light are mostly wolf Link only designed parts), but OK gods I hate silent realm in SS which is one of the worst thing I've ever experienced in a Zelda game.

Finally I disagree for OoT and MM. For such old games, you've to consider that those parts greatly added to the worlds of Hyrule and Termina. It was not 2016 where gamers have many things to play and want to follow a blue dot in a corridor until a CGI scene gave them the required backstory.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I'd argue OoT does the same thing; you need to approach every old area differently as Young/Adult Link.

Fire Temple: Inside the volcano which was off limits as Young Link.
Water Temple: Frozen Zora's Domain opens up Ice Caverns.
Shadow Temple: Bottom of the Well
Spirit Temple: Do different things as Young/Adult Link

To me, I don't know that I would say it's equivalent - I'm looking at it in terms of the adventure/exploration aspect. The volcano doesn't really have much to it - IIRC, it's just access to the Fire Temple and a Fairy Fountain, right? And the changes in Kakariko Village and Zora's Domain really only give you access to a mini-dungeon (which, admittedly, were enjoyable). Spirit Temple overworld area was a pretty great part of the game, so it's not like I won't give OoT credit!

 

[Firemind]

I vote in favor of the silent realm tear quests in SS. Yes its another example of them trying to get the most utility possible out of the three playspaces they made, but they were a good remix with an interesting structure. Much more compelling than running back to the first mediocre dungeon to get some water in a jar.

I disagree. Failing because you're being chased and you can't do anything about it is the worst possible way to remix locations. Let me be a hero ffs, Nintendo.

 

[LegendofLex]

1. Go to Kokiri Forest a second time
2. Go to Death Mountain a second time
3. Go to Zora's Domain a second time
4. Go to Kakariko Village a second time

etc. etc. etc.

While having to retread these areas could be seen as padding, I think the game leveraged your return to those areas very well. It felt like the game was simply encouraging you to hunt for the locations of the new temples, which happened to be situated in areas you've already seen, and doing that meant interfacing with those regions again and coming face to face with the changes that were wrought in the last seven years.

In fact, you could have spotted pretty much every place you go as an adult as a child - you saw the ruined Forest Temple when you learned Saria's Song, you saw the Fire Temple if you entered the crater, you saw the Water Temple at the bottom of Lake Hylia, you could just see the Shadow Temple entrance if you visited the graveyard, you could reach Gerudo Valley but not enter the Fortress - the adult portion of OoT is simply negotiating your way to those new areas.

This wasn't a case like TWW's Forsaken Fortress or SS's Skyview Temple where the game literally spells out for you that you need to go through here a second time because the plot demands it.

 

[Kinsei]

I disagree. Failing because you're being chased and you can't do anything about it is the worst possible way to remix locations. Let me be a hero ffs, Nintendo.

If you're being chased it's your own fault.

I personally loved the silent realm sections of SS.

 

[DownGrader]

Does this include the part where you have to track down all the furry woodland creatures with the dowsing rod before even being able to enter the first dungeon? I almost forgot how awful that was.

While I, too, disliked that section on my first playthough, lots of people miss the point of SS in general: by the time you've descended to the surface, you already were in the dungeon. The whole surface world is essentially a giant interconnected dungeon sans boss fights.

 

[Astral Dog]

I agree they beed to cut the fat, on the other hand,ALBW is not the way to do it on console.