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[Captain Toad]

Seriously, I thought we've been through this, but it's getting worse.

It started with Uncharted. After a bit of time, if you haven't solved a puzzle, the game prompted you to press a button and Drake or someone would say something to give you a hint on how to proceed. It was actually brilliant and kept the flow of the game going, while still giving you the choice to keep attempting the puzzle yourself.

Then, games like Horizon started doing similar things, only they didn't give you the option to NOT hear the hints. If the game deemed you are taking too long, Alloy, etc would make comment hinting at what to do.

Forbidden West took this to a ridiculous level, basically giving you almost no time to figure out the puzzles yourself. And often when you WERE quick enough, she'd still insult you by telling you the answer while you were already in the process of doing that exact thing.

Now, I'm playing God of War Ragnarok. While, I'm pretty early on, this already looks like the worst offender yet. I'll fight a room of mobs and while I'm still picking up loot the other NPCs are giving me not so subtle "hints" at solving a puzzle I haven't even had s chance to see yet. And then, ten seconds later, even more specific hints to basically where they're calling me a dumbass and telling me exactly what to do.

"Hmmm, we need to get across that water. I wish we could freeze it."

"Oh, your Axe freezes stuff doesn't it?"

"Hey, what if you throw your axe at the water?"

Sigh... ok, I jump across and immediately

"Hmmm, I wonder if we could knock that block down?"

"Maybe you could throw your axe at the chain holding that block?"

Sigh... I do that. As soon as the block lands.

"I wonder what you'd see if you climbed on top of that box?"

As soon as you climb up

"Oh, a pool of water. I wish we could freeze it somehow..."

SHUT THE HELL UP. Or do you just want to take the controller from me and do it yourself?

Surely, I'm not the only one experiencing this, right?

 

[AV]

After Atreus started piping up every 3 seconds in the dwarven realm I went straight into the settings to see if there was some way to turn this shit down/off, but couldn't see it.

I also couldn't see a way to move the subtitles down to the actual bottom of the screen but couldn't see that either, am I just being blind? It's absolutely insane to me that they're so high up and directly in the way.

It's like they've added 200 menu options and forgotten two of the biggest ones - or I missed one.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

I'm sorry. Had to do it....lol
I understand though. Devs need to give the option to turn this off.

 

[Saber]

Because its a fact that most of the people, mostly the ones that claim themselves as "gamers", are stupid as fuck. No wonder they created a journalist mode and things to make puzzles easier.

 

[ACESHIGH]

Prepare to be bashed OP. It is what it is. Sony games are very successful and have amazing production values but player agency goes down the drain in those AAA games.

I wish they could change their approach but these games sell a lot so why would them?

I don't see modern Sony designing an ICO or Collosus.

 

[Godot25]

It's pathetic that games for adults are treating players like dumb idiots.

Developers are so afraid that people won't complete their games that every instance of "roadblock" is solved by them. Then what is a fucking point of a "roadblock" in video games? I feel no sense of pride after beating some logical puzzle when game will tell me what to do. This whole stuff is data driven to the point of insanity. They know how many players are "dropping of" during game and they know exact places where they are dropping of. That's why this whole stupid thing exists.

It's funny, because I remember quest designer from Forbidden West mocking Elden Ring on Twitter because that's the game that will not tell player anything.

 

[Nankatsu]

Well, I think Forbidden West does a solid enough job with puzzles on side activities, specially in those relic ones.

I'm currently playing the game and there has been a few where I had to think about it for some time and Aloy didn't gave a single tip.

But on main quest yeah, she holds the players hand...a lot!

 

[FingerBang]

There with you, buddy. Enjoying the yell out of the game but I feel like those hidden tutorials are unnecessary.

It's realistic that your companions would suggest that, but makes the experience slightly worse.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

They are catering to their demographic, or atleast what they think that is.

Deathloop was so dumbed down compared to Arkane's previous games, kinda makes me suspect it was due to Sony's input.

 

[Low Moral Fibre]

Please give me a toggle. Make the puzzle spoilers the default if you must but for god's sake please give me a toggle.

 

[Gaiff]

You can disable the feature in the options menu thankfully. The problem is that the default "hint" is much too aggressive. It should be off by default or they should ask you the first time you start a game what you want.

Edit: Turns out not. The option I thought did that is actually just to extend/reduce puzzles timing.

 

[GHG]

Because developers like to treat gamers like idiot babies these days. It started with button prompts and over-tutorlialisation and it's only gotten worse since then in the vast majority of games.

But considering the fact that even the shittest of shit games manage to sell along with the abhorrent practices some games have gotten away with (and even defended) in recent years maybe they are right.

 

[Captain Toad]

You can disable the feature in the options menu thankfully. The problem is that the default "hint" is much too aggressive. It should be off by default or they should ask you the first time you start a game what you want.

What? Where?

 

[kyliethicc]

Seriously, I thought we've been through this, but it's getting worse.

It started with Uncharted. After a bit of time, if you haven't solved a puzzle, the game prompted you to press a button and Drake or someone would say something to give you a hint on how to proceed. It was actually brilliant and kept the flow of the game going, while still giving you the choice to keep attempting the puzzle yourself.

Then, games like Horizon started doing similar things, only they didn't give you the option to NOT hear the hints. If the game deemed you are taking too long, Alloy, etc would make comment hinting at what to do.

Forbidden West took this to a ridiculous level, basically giving you almost no time to figure out the puzzles yourself. And often when you WERE quick enough, she'd still insult you by telling you the answer while you were already in the process of doing that exact thing.

Now, I'm playing God of War Ragnarok. While, I'm pretty early on, this already looks like the worst offender yet. I'll fight a room of mobs and while I'm still picking up loot the other NPCs are giving me not so subtle "hints" at solving a puzzle I haven't even had s chance to see yet. And then, ten seconds later, even more specific hints to basically where they're calling me a dumbass and telling me exactly what to do.

"Hmmm, we need to get across that water. I wish we could freeze it."

"Oh, your Axe freezes stuff doesn't it?"

"Hey, what if you throw your axe at the water?"

Sigh... ok, I jump across and immediately

"Hmmm, I wonder if we could knock that block down?"

"Maybe you could throw your axe at the chain holding that block?"

Sigh... I do that. As soon as the block lands.

"I wonder what you'd see if you climbed on top of that box?"

As soon as you climb up

"Oh, a pool of water. I wish we could freeze it somehow..."

SHUT THE HELL UP. Or do you just want to take the controller from me and do it yourself?

Surely, I'm not the only one experiencing this, right?

The Last of Us and Uncharted do not have this issue.

You can literally turn off all hints.

 

[marjo]

Agreed OP. I can't strand this 'feature'. Plagues Tale Requiem also suffered from this. At the very least, they should make asking for the hint optional.

 

[Topher]

Definitely needs to be a setting for this stuff.

 

[dDoc]

What? Where?

Yes where so I don't lose precious game time looking for the option

 

[Gamerdude123]

You vastly underestimate how stupid the average person is.

I do agree though that there should be options to toggle hints on and off.

I absolutely hate puzzles and crafting in games.

 

[Gudji]

What? Where?

This is exactly why they give you hints to solve puzzles.

 

[dDoc]

I absolutely hate puzzles and crafting in games.

If done correctly and in good amounts can help pace the game better.

 

[AV]

Tell you what though, that auto-pickup on crafting resources is amazing. Imagine how many unnecessary button presses you're saving throughout a 60 hour game.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Seriously, I thought we've been through this, but it's getting worse.

It started with Uncharted. After a bit of time, if you haven't solved a puzzle, the game prompted you to press a button and Drake or someone would say something to give you a hint on how to proceed. It was actually brilliant and kept the flow of the game going, while still giving you the choice to keep attempting the puzzle yourself.

Then, games like Horizon started doing similar things, only they didn't give you the option to NOT hear the hints. If the game deemed you are taking too long, Alloy, etc would make comment hinting at what to do.

Forbidden West took this to a ridiculous level, basically giving you almost no time to figure out the puzzles yourself. And often when you WERE quick enough, she'd still insult you by telling you the answer while you were already in the process of doing that exact thing.

Now, I'm playing God of War Ragnarok. While, I'm pretty early on, this already looks like the worst offender yet. I'll fight a room of mobs and while I'm still picking up loot the other NPCs are giving me not so subtle "hints" at solving a puzzle I haven't even had s chance to see yet. And then, ten seconds later, even more specific hints to basically where they're calling me a dumbass and telling me exactly what to do.

"Hmmm, we need to get across that water. I wish we could freeze it."

"Oh, your Axe freezes stuff doesn't it?"

"Hey, what if you throw your axe at the water?"

Sigh... ok, I jump across and immediately

"Hmmm, I wonder if we could knock that block down?"

"Maybe you could throw your axe at the chain holding that block?"

Sigh... I do that. As soon as the block lands.

"I wonder what you'd see if you climbed on top of that box?"

As soon as you climb up

"Oh, a pool of water. I wish we could freeze it somehow..."

SHUT THE HELL UP. Or do you just want to take the controller from me and do it yourself?

Surely, I'm not the only one experiencing this, right?

This exact part in GOW:R happened to me last night and it was the first time I felt I was being treated like a dumbass, even having played the other games you mentioned.

100% agree and I hope it was one poorly-tuned moment and not a trend the rest of the game will follow

EDIT: I'm much, much further in the game, and this was literally the only egregious example of early cue-ing. The hints I've gotten since have been well-timed for my dumb ass

 

[Gaiff]

What? Where?

I would have to check in the menu again but I believe it's in Gameplay or Accessibility. I didn't try it out though but I did see an option called Puzzle Timing which I assume to be how much time they give you before Mimir or Atreus tell you what to do.

Otherwise, it sucks that you can't just turn it off.

 

[Calling 911 Melts Beams]

sony checks your trophies and sees that you cant do anything hard so they make the game hold your hand

 

[Punished Miku]

I'll definitely disable this if its possible. Huge pet peeve.

 

[Gudji]

Tell you what though, that auto-pickup on crafting resources is amazing. Imagine how many unnecessary button presses you're saving throughout a 60 hour game.

Oh shit missed that one. Mimir should have warned me that motherfucker.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

They are catering to their demographic, or atleast what they think that is.

Deathloop was so dumbed down compared to Arkane's previous games, kinda makes me suspect it was due to Sony's input.

This is not something exclusive to Sony...

 

[Roman Empire]

The Last of Us and Uncharted do not have this issue.

You can literally turn off all hints.

First thing I did when booting up the game was to go through all the gameplay, audio, video, and accessibility options. Spent a good 20 minutes tweaking stuff to my taste. No hints, hid some HUD elements for a more immersive experience, made subtitles and fonts larger overall (bad eyesight), lowered a little motion blur, turned aim assist off, bumped up camera and aim speeds, turned on the auto item pick-up for valuable items (upgrades materials, hacksilver, etc.). All these changes make for a smoother and harder experience suiting my tastes.

I love how much more customizable console games have become over the past 4 years, but when GoW Ragnarok comes to PC it'll be a day 1 purchase.

 

[mortal]

There should be toggle for this sort of stuff.

 

[AV]

Captain Toad I do wonder if we're getting bombarded because it's the start of the game and when we don't completely fail to do puzzles it'll ease off a bit later dynamically? Maybe a difficulty thing too, dunno about you but I started on balanced like I do with everything. Could have something to do with it.

 

[AtomicStarving]

That's for "character development". But I fucking hate it. I think this shit started with Uncharted. Why not putting an option to disable it tho... annoying as fuck. One of the worst aspects for some ps games.

I assume this is a "global mechanic" created by Naughty Dog's ICE Team to be shared between studios. They definitely need to do something about it.

 

[AmuroChan]

Because they are aiming to please the lowest denominator of gamers, meaning entitled gamers who don't want any challenges or use their brains.

 

[existensmaximum]

Yeah, it really really sucks. I think The Last of Us handles it well and lets you disable hints and tips from your partner? They should really do that in God of War too if you can't do it already..

 

[Banjo64]

They’re making games for the masses and most of the masses are pretty stupid.

 

[Fart Knight]

I dont mind it in Ragnarok but I wish there was an option for Aloy to shut up in FW.

 

[dDoc]

Also give us a trophy for completing a game on the highest difficulty setting you cowards. The analyst that came up with the idea of trophy nerfs should have his broken ego paraded across all the realms!

 

[tommib]

And then people wonder why Elden Ring was an astronomical success. Gamers do want to drop the hand-holding.

 

[Gaiff]

Also give us a trophy for completing a game on the highest difficulty setting you cowards. The analyst that came up with the idea of trophy nerfs should have his broken ego paraded across all the realms!

That's usually how I filter out my friends on PSN. I check their earned trophies and if they don't have the trophy for at least the hard mode and completed the game, I block them.

 

[Ezekiel_]

I think it's a result of extensive playtesting.

Average person is pretty dumb, and doesn't want to make an effort to stop and think or experiment.

I wish that could be turned off in the settings of games though.

Edit : I gotta say though, that so far the side quest and hidden rooms have no hints for them, so it seems to be for the main 'goals' only.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Does feel like driving a car with map navigation voice prompts on. I can turn off the voice on my iphone.

 

[Zannegan]

I'm sure it's not exclusive to Sony. I seem to recall New Raider giving a lot of unnecessary hints years ago. And there was a match-3 puzzle RPG that I would have loved if it didn't highlight a solution any time you spent too long looking for the best move. Almost ruined the game for me.

It's definitely one of my pet peeves in games. I like looking around and figuring stuff out on my own.

 

[tommib]

I'm sure it's not exclusive to Sony. I seem to recall New Raider giving a lot of unnecessary hints years ago. And there was a match-3 puzzle RPG that I would have loved if it didn't highlight a solution any time you spent too long looking for the best move. Almost ruined the game for me.

It's definitely one of my pet peeves in games. I like looking around and figuring stuff out on my own.

The new raiders are just as bad but I do think it all started with the first Uncharted. I remember getting that game thinking it was going to be some kind of traditional Tomb Raider and I was shocked at the dumbness of the puzzles and hand-holding. From there on, it’s been a my-first-baby-puzzle approach from these action-adventure games. It’s also when From Software saved us all.

 

[Thief1987]

It's mostly AAA games thing nowadays. Part of the so called accessibility. I'm playing Plague Tale Requiem right now, and devs clearly treating players like idiots.

 

[Fredrik]

It’s not exclusive to Sony protagonists. It’s the whole hobby. Too much hand-holding. And remember the rant from Jaffe about Metroid Dread and how he didn’t know what to do. It was apparently bad game design.

Anyhow, I also started playing Ragnarök last night. I’m only a couple hours in but the hand-holding is pretty severe. Marked ledges for jumping and climbing, button prompts, companion hints or just standing and waiting where you’re supposed to go, loot chests are ”hidden” in plain sight. Etc.
Maybe it’s a long tutorial?

 

[DForce]

They are catering to their demographic, or atleast what they think that is.

Deathloop was so dumbed down compared to Arkane's previous games, kinda makes me suspect it was due to Sony's input.

Games today either give you obvious hints or create puzzles with literally no challenge. I was playing Shadow of the Tomb Raider a few months ago and Lara gives you hints every 10 seconds, so it's not a "Sony" thing.

 

[lughnasadh123]

It's a great thing to have that should be a toggle option that you opt in for or tied to the difficulty setting.

 

[Fbh]

Honestly I think there's a larger issue of the average player seemingly only wanting action and fights and complaining about everything else. We used to have proper platforming challenges in games, now most use the Uncharted style autopilot crap. We used to have better puzzle in games now it's all basic crates and levers and they can't wait to tell you the answer if you haven't figured it out after 30 seconds.
But then I also can't help but wonder if it's a wrong assumption from the devs (maybe due to extreme focus testing) more than a true reflection of what audiences really want. Because then we get games like Elden Ring with massive sales and a lot of praise for their lack of handholding and letting players figure out stuff on their own.

Either way to your point yeah it's annoying.
Some option or toggle to turn that shit off should be a must for all games with some sort of puzzle element. Or at least make it like other games which give you prompt like "press R3 for a hint"

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Games today either give you obvious hints or create puzzles with literally no challenge. I was playing Shadow of the Tomb Raider a few months ago and Lara gives you hints every 10 seconds, so it's not a "Sony" thing.

Haven't played new Horizon or GOW but if it's at same level as Shadow of the Tomb Raider, then that's fine.

Lara always told me stuff that was obvious and I already knew. Also used to do in a low key way, easy to miss if you are focussed on puzzle.

 

[GermanZepp]

That's part of the lack of charm of the characters Aloy specially. EDIT: Santa Mónica is doing this since long ago. Like a camera shot that pans out thru all the stage and points a lever that is glowing .. like if players were retarded

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

Theres too many puzzles in general. After every encounter theres a puzzle to the point where during one Atreus was like "you can make that jump" and I'm like I seen the shit you can do Kratos and I can make that jump...I know you can. but yea Atreus does talk to much but I'm so tired of freezing pipes, breaking ledges that I wish there was an option they could just do it for me.

Honestly I think there's a larger issue of the average player seemingly only wanting action and fights and complaining about everything else. We used to have proper platforming challenges in games, now most use the Uncharted style autopilot crap. We used to have better puzzle in games now it's all basic crates and levers and they can't wait to tell you the answer if you haven't figured it out after 30 seconds.

I think it's the quality over quantity issue. A game like limbo had some amazing puzzles, but so far I did more puzzles in gow than all of limbo and most of them are rehashed mechanics from the first game. It feels more like busy work than a "shit that was a superb puzzle".