Support NeoGAF

[Captain Toad]

This is exactly why they give you hints to solve puzzles.

Except, such option doesn't exist.

 

[TheGodfather07]

So people who are not very good at puzzles can advance the game.

 

[SJRB]

I noticed this while I was replaying 2018 God of War and Atreus spells out the solution before you even have a chance to process what the game wants you to do.

These games treat you like a moron because the average casual gamer is a moron. Devs want to make their games as accessible as possible, which means that even the biggest idiot should be able to complete any "puzzle" that is in the game.

These games would benefit from a toggle that lets you set the time until you get a hint. Didn't Uncharted 4 have this?

 

[Captain Toad]

Honestly I think there's a larger issue of the average player seemingly only wanting action and fights and complaining about everything else. We used to have proper platforming challenges in games, now most use the Uncharted style autopilot crap. We used to have better puzzle in games now it's all basic crates and levers and they can't wait to tell you the answer if you haven't figured it out after 30 seconds.
But then I also can't help but wonder if it's a wrong assumption from the devs (maybe due to extreme focus testing) more than a true reflection of what audiences really want. Because then we get games like Elden Ring with massive sales and a lot of praise for their lack of handholding and letting players figure out stuff on their own.

Either way to your point yeah it's annoying.
Some option or toggle to turn that shit off should be a must for all games with some sort of puzzle element. Or at least make it like other games which give you prompt like "press R3 for a hint"

The thing is no one forced them to put puzzles in the game at all. That's an acceptable design choice. But, why design them and then not give the player the option to solve them?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I wonder what modern day gamers would do if games were like the old days of exploring and doing quests:

- Zero auto-map feature
- Zero quest log
- Zero compass markers (also excludes distance marker just in case the compass symbol some reason isn't enough info for ya)
- Accidentally killed an important NPC
- Lost a key or dropped an important item somewhere and cant find it
- For games requiring reflexes, it was pure trial and error of skills and trying different ways to do it

Somehow all us gamers since the 80s could figure out how to beat adventure and RPG games.

 

[AV]

Also give us a trophy for completing a game on the highest difficulty setting you cowards. The analyst that came up with the idea of trophy nerfs should have his broken ego paraded across all the realms!

Although I agree with you it's bad for business. There are far too many sick-in-the-head people that outright won't buy a game if they know they have to actually try for the plat. Anything less than that is a waste of time to them.

 

[diffusionx]

The first game I remember this was really egregious was Okami and it was noted as a negative in reviews. Anyway, these games are focus tested to hell and back and the devs/publishers realized, with the rise of telemetry/cheevos, that the VAST majority of people never finish their games. So they say why are we spending tens of millions of dollars to make this content that 70% of people don’t even see?

The annoying thing is that I actually think this is a good solution, better than just removing puzzles entirely, but it’s just set way too high and is triggered way too fast for anyone with a room temperature or above IQ.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

They know you are dumb.

 

[Metnut]

I like the hints but they should be opt-in (or at least give you a chance to opt-out). Sometimes if I’m getting close I want to keep working on the puzzle, but if I’m completely clueless, I don’t mind the hint.

 

[rodrigolfp]

 

[GymWolf]

I didn't had major puzzles yet so i don't know how bad it is but yeah there should be a toggle or something.

Thank to odin the game has at least a real challenge with the combat.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

It's not "sony protagonists" when you even had a game release 2 weeks ago that does this: A Plague's Tale. Plus, plenty others. Some Playstation games have a toggle you can select to remove these clues. That said i agree, it's getting out of hand.

I'll end my post by saying this: Thank god Elden Ring exists and did the numbers it did this year. I feel it's sending quite the loud message to all publishers out there (let's face it, devs dumb down these experiences usually at the request of publishers to sell these games to the masses)

 

[Johnny Concrete]

Because its a fact that most of the people, mostly the ones that claim themselves as "gamers", are stupid as fuck. No wonder they created a journalist mode and things to make puzzles easier.

This is absolutely a Journalist Mode. Nothing in the way to hamper their progress and see as much as possible without frustrating them to not get their deadline.

“It was nice and easy. 95/100”

 

[RoadHazard]

Focus groups, reviewers, etc. These games are not made for people who can think for themselves. (I like them though.)

 

[Captain Toad]

You can disable the feature in the options menu thankfully. The problem is that the default "hint" is much too aggressive. It should be off by default or they should ask you the first time you start a game what you want.

This isn't true.

It's crazy because there are tons of accessibility options to help out the 0.01% of people who have very specific disabilities. Not that there's anything wrong with those, but I feel lately devs, Sony devs especially, spend more effort catering to these people than adding options the other 99% of gamers could find useful.

I guess whatever earns you more articles for thinking of the special needs of people who are far sighted in one eye, near sighted in the other and had the tip of their ring finger cut off in a lawn-mowing accident.

 

[Kvally]

You can disable the feature in the options menu thankfully. The problem is that the default "hint" is much too aggressive. It should be off by default or they should ask you the first time you start a game what you want.

Is anyone gonna say that this does or doesn't exist?^

 

[rodrigolfp]

turned aim assist off

Respect.

People not seeing all the options before playing a game are weirdos.

 

[Negotiator101]

You remember the old Tomb Raider games? There was no help in them but you would work it out in the end. I think it's down to testing and people getting frustrated so they welcome the help. No big deal and it's not just Sony made games either.

 

[FUBARx89]

I wonder what modern day gamers would do if games were like the old days of exploring and doing quests:

- Zero auto-map feature
- Zero quest log
- Zero compass markers (also excludes distance marker just in case the compass symbol some reason isn't enough info for ya)
- Accidentally killed an important NPC
- Lost a key or dropped an important item somewhere and cant find it
- For games requiring reflexes, it was pure trial and error of skills and trying different ways to do it

Somehow all us gamers since the 80s could figure out how to beat adventure and RPG games.

So you mean.....From Software games.

Tbf I haven't really heard any hints apart from "hur dur try a different angle" which I'd do anyway.

Least it's not a Deacon from Days Gone. He was insufferable talking away to himself. Far worse than Aloy and she started to get on my wick by the end of H:ZD & H:FW.

 

[Gaiff]

This isn't true.

Is anyone gonna say that this does or doesn't exist?^

I went back and check and the Puzzle Timing is just there to extend the time of certain puzzles. I had assumed it was how much time there was before getting a hint. Turns out not. It's a real shame because I think you can do that in Uncharted. Disabling hints altogether I mean.

 

[Klosshufvud]

Unfortunately the result of extreme focus testing done by publisher demand. They employ the same cynical methods they do in Hollywood. They invite normal people over to play and the moment someone is stuck, they'll get back to the drawing board to redesign shit. There are stories of some pretty clever puzzles and level design being cut because play testers were too confused. This is also why it's extremely rare to get stuck in a game today. So it's pretty refreshing playing games like Monster Hunter and Souls that dare to gate you properly without excusing for it. Being stuck is contrary to common developer belief NOT a game design flaw. It is a merit in a good game. Maybe Sony devs don't have enough faith in their games to truly test players?

 

[AV]

Is anyone gonna say that this does or doesn't exist?^

It's not, you can only make the puzzles even easier. Big shame. It doesn't hamper my enjoyment of the game as a whole but considering they added like 200 configuration options with this game, "turn off Atreus puzzle hints" would have been a VERY easy one to include.

 

[Deft Beck]

During Final Fantasy 7 Remake's first major boss, I noticed how Cloud and Barrett wouldn't stop reminding me what to do and when to heal. Thankfully, they stopped doing that after this boss.

They want to make players stay engaged but don't get frustrated. And for a game as big and expensive as GOW Ragnarock, player retention is paramount.

 

[Captain Toad]

I went back and check and the Puzzle Timing is just there to extend the time of certain puzzles. I had assumed it was how much time there was before getting a hint. Turns out not. It's a real shame because I think you can do that in Uncharted. Disabling hints altogether I mean.

That has nothing to do with hints. Just how fast/slow certain levers move or stuff like that.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I think the last several Sony games I played all did this.

 

[twinspectre]

Welcome to modern gaming, where they keep insulting people's inteligence, and we are super happy to pay them to be insulted.

 

[TonyK]

In a Plague Tale Requiem there is a moment you arrive to a church and there is a puzzle and the companion solves it for you. It was shocking for me.

 

[anthony2690]

Seriously, I thought we've been through this, but it's getting worse.

It started with Uncharted. After a bit of time, if you haven't solved a puzzle, the game prompted you to press a button and Drake or someone would say something to give you a hint on how to proceed. It was actually brilliant and kept the flow of the game going, while still giving you the choice to keep attempting the puzzle yourself.

Then, games like Horizon started doing similar things, only they didn't give you the option to NOT hear the hints. If the game deemed you are taking too long, Alloy, etc would make comment hinting at what to do.

Forbidden West took this to a ridiculous level, basically giving you almost no time to figure out the puzzles yourself. And often when you WERE quick enough, she'd still insult you by telling you the answer while you were already in the process of doing that exact thing.

Now, I'm playing God of War Ragnarok. While, I'm pretty early on, this already looks like the worst offender yet. I'll fight a room of mobs and while I'm still picking up loot the other NPCs are giving me not so subtle "hints" at solving a puzzle I haven't even had s chance to see yet. And then, ten seconds later, even more specific hints to basically where they're calling me a dumbass and telling me exactly what to do.

"Hmmm, we need to get across that water. I wish we could freeze it."

"Oh, your Axe freezes stuff doesn't it?"

"Hey, what if you throw your axe at the water?"

Sigh... ok, I jump across and immediately

"Hmmm, I wonder if we could knock that block down?"

"Maybe you could throw your axe at the chain holding that block?"

Sigh... I do that. As soon as the block lands.

"I wonder what you'd see if you climbed on top of that box?"

As soon as you climb up

"Oh, a pool of water. I wish we could freeze it somehow..."

SHUT THE HELL UP. Or do you just want to take the controller from me and do it yourself?

Surely, I'm not the only one experiencing this, right?

Didn't they patent where you could have other players help you beat games?

They said F it, we will have our ai tell you what to do instead.

Hopefully they add an option to turn off hints, or like you said uncharted 4 does it.

As that sounds beyond annoying/frustrating.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

Remember the Legacy of Kain block puzzles?

"Fuck you buddy, solve that shit yourself if you want the next cutscene."

 

[Gaiff]

That has nothing to do with hints. Just how fast/slow certain levers move or stuff like that.

Literally quoting and repeating what I said.

 

[cireza]

They know their audience.

Play games such as Talos Principle instead.

 

[nikolino840]

Congrat OP the largest Italian videogame site has made a news on your post

https://www.everyeye.it/notizie/god...pi-consigli-come-risolvere-puzzle-618544.html

 

[twinspectre]

Remember the Legacy of Kain block puzzles?

"Fuck you buddy, solve that shit yourself if you want the next cutscene."

These were amazing GAMES, not what we have today that are designed to insult people.

 

[Fake]

Because we are dumb.

 

[Fbh]

The thing is no one forced them to put puzzles in the game at all. That's an acceptable design choice. But, why design them and then not give the player the option to solve them?

I think it has to do with the purpose given to those elements.
In older games like, say, POP The Sands of Time the puzzles and platforming were a core part of the experience. But in most modern AAA games they serve more as a form of padding and "palate cleanser" in between action scenes and cutscenes.

But yeah I think the option to turn off hints should be an absolute must.

 

[TGO]

Because people get on customer care demanding a refund because they can't get any further in the game because of a bug.
Which is actually a puzzle which the dumb fucks can't figure out.

 

[Kamina]

In GoW they usually tell you that stuff if you are too slow. They didnt talk to me that much.
Maybe you are just taking too long?

 

[Gaiff]

In GoW they usually tell you that stuff if you are too slow. They didnt talk to me that much.
Maybe you are just taking too long?

OP could take a week if he wanted. The point is that there should be an option to not get any hint whatsoever. Some people want to figure out things on their own no matter how long it takes.

 

[Kamina]

OP could take a week if he wanted. The point is that there should be an option to not get any hint whatsoever. Some people want to figure out things on their own no matter how long it takes.

Options are always nice

 

[nkarafo]

Because mainstream games developers think you are an idiot.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Reminds me of this gem.

 

[Flutta]

In GoW they usually tell you that stuff if you are too slow. They didnt talk to me that much.
Maybe you are just taking too long?

Nah that’s BS. Happened to me also. That idiot kid started running his mouth before i even had the chance to scoute the area and it happened to me multiple times. It’s a design issue that needs to be adressed.

 

[Shakka43]

Amazing game so far, but yeah I have to agree with it being the worst offender. It feels like the games mocks you for trying to explore the world and wants you to rush through the story.

 

[Havoc2049]

It's refreshing when you find a modern game that doesn't go with the extreme hand holding of many modern games.

 

[dDoc]

Although I agree with you it's bad for business. There are far too many sick-in-the-head people that outright won't buy a game if they know they have to actually try for the plat. Anything less than that is a waste of time to them.

On the reverse side of things, I would assume some people will not sell the game or keep it longer if they are interested to get the platinum. But hey, I'm no analyst. Sony should probs hire me!

 

[nkarafo]

Average person is pretty dumb, and doesn't want to make an effort to stop and think or experiment.

Sure, that makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is, if this is true then why even include puzzles at all? Just remove them altogether and let the average Joe walk though the cinematic experience he so likes.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

Souls games have proven that difficult games that don’t hold your hand every step of the way can still sell millions. Sony should take note and dial back some of this stuff.

 

[remember_spinal]

They solved all the puzzles in Plague Tale Requiem also, as simple as those puzzles were too.

It is an annoying and weird trend in AAA games lately, and it needs to stop

 

[remember_spinal]

Souls games have proven that difficult games that don’t hold your hand every step of the way can still sell millions. Sony should take note and dial back some of this stuff.

To be fair souls games don’t really have much to do outside of combat and unlocking shortcuts. Thats not a knock but once you figure out the basic way to play theres nothing else to really figure out other than how to get from one combat encounter to the next.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

Please give me a toggle. Make the puzzle spoilers the default if you must but for god's sake please give me a toggle.

I think this. I think for 90% of people these hints are needed. Since most are just trying to experience the game rather than figuring it out.

Hell even I just wanna get shit on the road.

So I think they should just make hints activated on request by swiping the touchpad. Sometimes I wanna figure shit out quickly, sometimes I wanna kick my head in till I figure the simple ass puzzle out.