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[shantyman]

Perrin Kaplan, vice president of marketing for Nintendo of America, said Microsoft and Sony could be alienating many people with the expense of their consoles but also by emphasizing their elaborate games.

“Some people are getting a little bored with the complexity, how deep the games are,” Ms. Kaplan said. “They have to do their jobs. They’ve got kids, or other interests.”

Ms. Kaplan said the industry needed to appeal to a broader group. “Our goal is to build the industry into something bigger,” she said, adding of the industry’s overall sales: “We need to find a way to go up or we’re going to start going down.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/17/t...2cf62e7cdede&ei=5089&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss

So, because I have a child and a job, I won't want to play a complex game? The solution is a waggle stick and last generation technology?

I have no issue with the direction they took with the Wii, I even think it is pretty neat. However, why does Nintendo think they know more about gamers' tastes than the gamers themselves?

 

[Defcon]

Here we go again...

 

[DECK'ARD]

Here we go again...

No, hopefully we won't.

 

[Unison]

Obviously for some gamers games are becoming too complex. If you're not one of those gamers, some of the games Nintendo makes may not be for you.

Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[NintendosBooger]

However, why does Nintendo think they know more about gamers' tastes than the gamers themselves?

Maybe because millions of people buy their games?

 

[Mato]

She and Nintendo are refering to "nongamers", not us, hardcore ones. Apparently they are right, thus Japan is at long last interested in gaming again.

 

[Unison]

Hardcore gamers were wrong about Nintendogs.

Hardcore gamers were wrong about Brain Training.

Hardcore gamers were wrong about DS.

Nintendo was right.

 

[Andonuts]

Why does Nintendo insist games are becoming too complex?

Because they are?

 

[shantyman]

Here we go again because they keep saying this, over and over.

It's as annoying as Kaz Hirai saying the PS3 is a 10 year investment.

 

[plagiarize]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/17/t...2cf62e7cdede&ei=5089&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss

So, because I have a child and a job, I won't want to play a complex game? The solution is a waggle stick and last generation technology?

I have no issue with the direction they took with the Wii, I even think it is pretty neat. However, why does Nintendo think they know more about gamers' tastes than the gamers themselves?

respect the tom atkins avatar.

nintendo basically realised that being the system trying to do the exact same thing as the other two wasn't working out for them, and saw on the DS that there was a whole other market out there for simpler games.

they know that hardcore gamers will play zelda (and zelda doesn't have simplified controls) but they want to get people that don't call themselves gamers gaming. it's not about second guessing what gamers want, it's about making a gamble to find what it takes for a non-gamer to play games.

after the DS, nintendo are guessing 'simple controls'. we'll find out if they're right in time.

 

[Zombie James]

I tend to agree. It took the industry a long time to go from twitch toys for kids to the point where we're debating them as art forms. I think it's kind of dumb to say, "no, no, it's too complex, let's go backwards." It'd be one thing if the industry was regressing and a new direction were needed, it's another entirely when the industry continues to grow and the #3 competitor is the one saying things are broken.

 

[shantyman]

Hardcore gamers were wrong about Nintendogs.

Hardcore gamers were wrong about Brain Training.

Hardcore gamers were wrong about DS.

Nintendo was right.

No no no, that's not it. Just because there are complex games, it does not mean games like Nintendogs or Brian Training should not exist. There is room for all types.

 

[PornstarPolly]

Nintendo have just made the best game EVER! A game that won't be bettered in the whole of the PS3 and 360's lifetimes, and it's all from the Cube. :lol Nintendo know what they are doing so shut your trap, listen and learn.

 

[Defcon]

Here we go again because they keep saying this, over and over.

It's as annoying as Kaz Hirai saying the PS3 is a 10 year investment.

So they're gonna make a few extra bucks off non gamers, so what? There will still be games made for the hardcore crowd. It's not like every single game released on the system is going to be as simple as Wii Sports, which is an introductory demo for people who usually don't play video games. The Wii is about immersion as much as it's about being non-gamer friendly.

Don't feel threatened by a smart business opportunity. No one is forcing you to support the Wii or Nintendo in general. I just don't see why people keep making these threads when they have no intention of buying the Wii in the first place.

 

[NintendosBooger]

I tend to agree. It took the industry a long time to go from twitch toys for kids to the point where we're debating them as art forms. I think it's kind of dumb to say, "no, no, it's too complex, let's go backwards." It'd be one thing if the industry was regressing and a new direction were needed, it's another entirely when the industry continues to grow and the #3 competitor is the one saying things are broken.

So explain their urgency to create the DS with simplistic controls since they were dominating the handheld arena anyway?

 

[karasu]

I think I hate Nintendo. Their philosophy seems to be one of pussification.

 

[MoxManiac]

Personally, lack of complexity in a game tends to make me lose interest in it faster, aside from some cases

 

[Unison]

No no no, that's not it. Just because there are complex games, it does not mean games like Nintendogs or Brian Training should not exist. There is room for all types.

What is Zelda:TP if not a complex game? Nintendo is not against the status quo, but they think there should be more than the status quo.

What aren't you getting?

 

[Neo_Dasus]

Hardcore gamers were wrong about Nintendogs.

Hardcore gamers were wrong about Brain Training.

Hardcore gamers were wrong about DS.

Nintendo was right.

If your intellect was a bathtub, I would bathe in it.

 

[monchi-kun]

I want complexity in my games...but I want it hidden behind clever design where I barely notice it.

I think this is what Nintendo is aiming for

 

[The End]

So explain their urgency to create the DS with simplistic controls since they were dominating the handheld arena anyway?

Because they were blindsided by the PSP and launching with a single-not-touch-screen N64 level system would have been a bad idea?

 

[Zombie James]

So explain their urgency to create the DS with simplistic controls since they were dominating the handheld arena anyway?

The handheld market's different. The games already tend to be more on the simplistic side and Nintendo's the market leader, their ideas have more stroke in that market. If the Neo-Geo Pocket were still around (for example) and introduced the exact same touch-screen concept, it wouldn't have been as successful. The console market's different in a lot of ways.

 

[NintendosBooger]

A lot of people here are mistaking complex games with games that have rich graphics and storylines. I'm sure if Nintendo released a chess game with Wii controls and subpar graphics, some of these individuals would call it a non-game or a simple game.

 

[soul creator]

they repeat that because it helps them business wise if people believe them.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I think they're just saying there needs to be a balance. It seems like every game now tries to be more complex than the other. There are others that are just so long that people never even finish them (whcih seemed to be fairly common among even hardcore gamers last gen). So adding a bit of balance to that isn't a bad thing. The DS pretty much proves their point in some ways that there is a large group of gamers (or people that aren't gamers yet) who just prefers a game they can pop in that isn't filled with menus, cutscenes or complex controls.

 

[Hairyiguana]

I have no issue with the direction they took with the Wii, I even think it is pretty neat. However, why does Nintendo think they know more about gamers' tastes than the gamers themselves?

You don't speak for all gamers though. A game that is non complex can be way better, it depends on the game.

Elite Beat Agents is one of the best games of the year, and thats just hitting circles.

 

[Roders5]

*Sigh* Can people still be this ignorant?

If I sit my dad down infront of a tv and tell him to play super mario bros, he'll probably be able to without much trouble, but if I tell him to play ninja gaiden, he has a snowballs hope in hell. These comments are not aimed at us, they are aimed at people who didn't grow up with games and don't have a clue how to play them. They need something easier to play, simple as that.

 

[Mato]

So explain their urgency to create the DS with simplistic controls since they were dominating the handheld arena anyway?

I'd attribute it to the fact that they are a business, and business are meant to gain and expand.

 

[NintendosBooger]

The handheld market's different. The games already tend to be more on the simplistic side and Nintendo's the market leader, their ideas have more stroke in that market. If the Neo-Geo Pocket were still around (for example) and introduced the exact same touch-screen concept, it wouldn't have been as successful. The console market's different in a lot of ways.

I get that, but your previous post implied that Nintendo was using the "industry is going down the tubes" as an excuse to restructure their approach in game development in light of getting stomped on by the competition in the console market, but they employed the same strategy on a market in which they were flourishing, so perhaps their industry-related warnings are more than the empty cries from a jilted #3 competitor.

 

[jluedtke]

I tend to agree with them sometimes. Games like GRAW, where not only is every button used, but some buttons have more than one function, are a pain in the ass and I don't have the time to sit around and learn all that shit. I've got a life outside of gaming.

On the flip side, I don't see all Wii games being easy to learn either. For example ten pages of control schemes for Red Steel.

 

[X26]

They insist games are becomming too complex because htey want you to buy their products, that's it. :lol @ people who think Nintendo actually gives a crap about the quality of gaming and people's well-being

 

[goompapa]

1. Some non-gamers are indeed hopeless at games.
2. Making complex games usually takes a lot of time and effort=money=potential risk. That's obviously not what Nintendo want to do.

 

[bionic77]

Nintendo is right that games are too complex for a lot of non-gamers to get into them. One of my favorite games last generation was Winning Eleven for PS2 and part of what made it so awesome was how much you could do in the game, but that would be a very daunting game for a non-gamer to jump into.

Nintendo proved that they were right with the DS. Lets see if they can repeat that success with the Wii.

I don't know if the Wii remote is the right answer, but I am happy as a gamer that someone is trying another control scheme. I see no reason why the control scheme should not evolve with graphics.

 

[shantyman]

What is Zelda:TP if not a complex game? Nintendo is not against the status quo, but they think there should be more than the status quo.

What aren't you getting?

I'm not getting Nintendo's PR people spouting this. People are confusing my annoyance with their public statements with the products themselves.

You're right, Zelda is a complex game. Why do Kaplan, Miyamoto, Reggie, etc. make these statements so often?

 

[bionic77]

I'm not getting Nintendo's PR people spouting this. You're right, Zelda is a complex game. Why do Kaplan, Miyamoto, Reggie, etc. make these statements so often?

Because they are trying to attract the attention of non-gamers, expand their market share, and make more money.

 

[Mato]

They insist games are becomming too complex because htey want you to buy their products, that's it. :lol @ people who think Nintendo actually gives a crap about the quality of gaming and people's well-being

The joke's on you. I believe the heads of Nintendo and perhaps several employees, truly have values and morals about what they do.

 

[MrSardonic]

Because they are?

bingo

 

[cheekymunky]

The joke's on you. I believe the heads of Nintendo and perhaps several employees, truly have values and morals about what they do.

holy jesus ****ing christ....

 

[Learn2read]

They think overly complex games are the reason for Japan's declining interest in console gaming. They are a Japan-centric company. They see a "square-hole" and come up with a square peg to fill it.

In the West, gaming has been steadily becoming more mainstream and popular and no longer has the social stigma attached to it, and the games that are the biggest hits (Halo, GTA, Madden, etc..) are all quite complex, with few complaints.

Their square-peg in Japan's square hole solution seems ill suited to the West and may end up being a "square peg in a round hole" problem. As they are offering a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

...at least initially, Nintendo seems to somehow be able to take ideas that seem tailor made to create Japanese phemonena and somehow create as large or even larger phenomena in the West. We'll see if it's the same with the Wii.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

They insist games are becomming too complex because htey want you to buy their products, that's it. :lol @ people who think Nintendo actually gives a crap about the quality of gaming and people's well-being

This certainly explains why they have yet another Game of the Year among countless other highly regarded games over the years.

People whine and whine and whine about the company and many of these people buy their new systems on day one.

Why is that??

Because their developers are one of a kind.

 

[Zombie James]

I get that, but your previous post implied that Nintendo was using the "industry is going down the tubes" as an excuse to restructure their approach in game development in light of getting stomped on by the competition in the console market

Yea, well that's pretty much what Miyamoto said:

A few years ago, people were saying that Nintendo had slipped out of top place. But actually the game market itself had lost touch with the real world; this offered oppertunities to the one who noticed first.

Bascially, "We're in third place because the market's broken, so we're fixing it." I have a big problem with that, because the industry isn't broken, it continues to grow. Like I said before, if the industry were regressing i'd agree that a new direction might be needed, but that's not the case.

 

[Unison]

I'm not getting Nintendo's PR people spouting this. People are confusing my annoyance with their public statements with the products themselves.

You're right, Zelda is a complex game. Why do Kaplan, Miyamoto, Reggie, etc. make these statements so often?

It's about the context of the quote... They are trying to explain why the Wii is the way that it is. Perrin is not talking to the New York Times to inform you specifically about the Wii... She's trying to explain the system's philosophy to a much broader audience.

 

[Pimpbaa]

As long as nintendo doesn't alienate the hardcore in their efforts to get the non-gamers, it's all good (and they don't seem to be with the likes of zelda, metroid and mario for the wii).

 

[Maztorre]

They insist games are becomming too complex because htey want you to buy their products, that's it. :lol @ people who think Nintendo actually gives a crap about the quality of gaming and people's well-being

Yes because unlike their competitors Nintendo has alternative revenue streams outside of videogames. Oh, wait.

Perhaps more than any other company in the industry, Nintendo HAS to give a shit about the state of videogames.

Maybe you didn't think this one through kiddo.

 

[MoxManiac]

Yea, well that's pretty much what Miyamoto said:



Bascially, "We're in third place because the market's broken, so we're fixing it." I have a big problem with that, because the industry isn't broken, it continues to grow. Like I said before, if the industry were regressing i'd agree that a new direction might be needed, but that's not the case.

Exactly. The industry moved on, and Nintendo didn't keep up with it, so they were largely left behind.

I personally don't think the DS's success is any indicator of how Wii will do, but we'll see.

 

[WindyMan]

I have no issue with the direction ...i isn't about gamers. It's about non-gamers.

 

[shantyman]

It's about the context of the quote... They are trying to explain why the Wii is the way that it is. Perrin is not talking to the New York Times to inform you specifically about the Wii... She's trying to explain the system's philosophy to a much broader audience.

Fair enough. I just don't like the statement "Games are too complex, and gamers are losing interest because of that." They are trying to attract a wider market.

 

[Spencerr]

Because they are?

QFT. Playing Gears of War, I was loving it. Then all of a sudden I'm some commander and I have to give orders? **** that. I turned it off and didn't go back for awhile. I ended up just ignoring that I could even do it.

 

[DJ Sl4m]

Maybe because millions of people buy their games?

Which makes no sense considering many other developers have millions of people buying their games as well. It's equal ground, it would be quite different if they were the only development house selling millions of copies of games.

It's just their opinion of the view of the situation, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Rocked]

It's true. Many of my non-gamer (meaning they don't own or buy any games consoles) friends and my parents will play stuff like Mario Kart, Mario World, The Sims or Nintendogs, but give them Splinter Cell or a game like that and they become very confused.

I swear some hardcore gamers have little contact with the outside world so don't understand how most people can't get on with modern games that use loads of buttons. Don't you remember in the 16 bit days EVERYONE loved the old Mario and Sonic sidescrollers? That's why those crappy joysticks with old arcade games on continue to sell well.