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[Mumei]

Games occasionally do feel as though they have become too complex. I sometimes end up using a guide on a game so that I can breeze through it, otherwise it begins feeling like a chore.

That said, I still prefer those games... I just don't feel that I have the time for them, necessarily.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

Well I've gotten people hooked on games over the past year with the help of the NDS, people who have never given games a second thought because they don't understand how controllers work.

I got my mom addicted to Big Brain Academy, my girlfriend is hooked on Ouendan and Nintendogs, they both want a DS now.

The same thing is going on with the Wii. Two of my friends and my brother are getting it on day one, and I'm usually the only person who does that for console launches. They want it because you can box, because you can waggle the Master Sword. They want it because its the same kind of leap in intuitive control that happened a decade ago with the N64.

The simplistic control schemes don't necessarily make games less complex, simply easier to understand and get involved with. And there will still be plenty of games hardcore gamers will love on the Wii, I mean we're already getting Zelda and Trauma Center on day one.

And if you think this is the wrong direction for Nintendo, you're wrong. Their stock is at an all time high, and their trouncing Sony because of all the positive buzz Nintendo is getting, honestly there his been nothing negative said about the system other than idiots on forum spouting the "lol underpowered" shit over and over. Miyamoto is at the heart of all these changes as well, and he doesn't lose touch with the gaming industry, he keeps it moving forward.

In addition, Miyamoto kept the graphic capabilities tame for a reason. He wanted people to be able to easily develop for it, so that big ideas would when over big polygon counts. He wanted the focus of developers to be on unique and intuitive controls, and not have to worry about huge investments. ( Not to mention it makes games load blazing fast, and run blazing fast.)

Well said -- and even though I'm a whore for epic, story-driven RPGs, complexly-amalgamated shooters (as in Ikaruga; FPS isn't complex past good reflexes :lol ), strategy (Playing SupCom BETA at 4AM!) and simulation titles -- I can really see this as true.

 

[Master_x]

I think simplicity in games has nothing to do with hardcore games or not.
Remember the NES ? It was a hardcore system with some of the most dificult games we have ever seen and it had 2 buttons and a D-pad .
They want to bring the feeling of the Nes, a console that was simple and enjoyable

 

[charlequin]

If I sit my dad down infront of a tv and tell him to play super mario bros, he'll probably be able to without much trouble, but if I tell him to play ninja gaiden, he has a snowballs hope in hell. These comments are not aimed at us, they are aimed at people who didn't grow up with games and don't have a clue how to play them. They need something easier to play, simple as that.

Specifically, there's generally a learning curve from the basic concepts of manipulating figures on screen using a controller to doing so masterfully with numerous distinct controls and multiple levels of in-game system abstraction. For those of us who are hardcore gamers in our twenties and thirties, we followed this learning curve over time: we started on simple systems when they came out and played increasingly complex games on increasingly complex systems.

Nowadays, the only people who really make this transition from scratch are kids -- they learn easier (and are more patient with failure) to start with, and they often have simpler handheld games to transition from. Lots of other people play simple point-and-click games like Bejewelled or used to play things like Mario but missed all the intermediate steps and don't know what to do with a game like a modern console FPS. Nintendo's plan is to present control schemes that aren't frustrating or intimidating for these people -- the biggest target market is really people who haven't gamed in awhile, or who only play really simple PC stuff, moreso than people who have never, ever gamed at all even a little bit.

 

[charlequin]

I don't get it. Nintendo's like "games are too complicated" so instead of giving the consumers buttons they give them wiimotes? Pushing a button = too hard, but remembering to make a circle while tilting your wrist then thrusting forward to perform one action = just fine?

Gamers keep saying things like this, but it kinda ignores two elements of the Wiimote that really do make it simpler to use gestures to control things.

The first has to do with mnemonics. Learning console controls can be difficult because there's not much sense to what goes where. There are patterns that have evolved (like "X" being the action button) but they're not intuitive and games do sometimes ignore them. Gestures are much easier to remember because they have a content connection to the action they control. No one will ever forget that swinging the wiimote swings your sword, or that winding the nunchuk winds your fishing pole, because the very action of performing the gesture reinforces the action you're performing in game.

The second part is transparency. On a classic controller, every button is there all the time; even if a button isn't used, you can get it confused with a button that does something you want. However, the gestures the Wii can perform are invisible -- you only "see" the gestures the game says that you can perform. Someone who's handed the wiimote won't get confused by options that aren't available yet or buttons that don't do anything.

The hidden benefit of this that some people miss is that you can have a much more complicated game by using gestural control. With the sensor bar in place, there are easily 20+ intuitively different gestures you can perform with a wiimote + nunchuk, and a game that maps these intuitively to different in-game moves could probably use all of them effectively.

I actually think that if developers get smart we'll see a lot of this kind of design show up in actual hardcore-oriented games for Wii. Zelda is already hinting at some of the ways this could go.

 

[Linkup]

alot of Wii games are going to be 10 fold more complicated to play then conventional controls

while SMB:BB, Excite Truck and Wii Sports will have simple controls,
you got on the other hand whacked out complicated games to control like Red Steel, Need For Speed Carbon, Zelda TP, SPlinter Cell 4 port and ect.

I'm almost sure NFSC has a control scheme very similar to Excite Truck.

A few years ago, people were saying that Nintendo had slipped out of top place. But actually the game market itself had lost touch with the real world; this offered opportunities to the one who noticed first.

Bascially, "We're in third place because the market's broken, so we're fixing it." I have a big problem with that, because the industry isn't broken, it continues to grow. Like I said before, if the industry were regressing i'd agree that a new direction might be needed, but that's not the case.

I think you need to read that interview again. I remember reading it and getting the impression that he was saying that Sony recognized the older and larger market and want after it thus rising to the top.

 

[En-ou]

If they can't compete in the current market, they need to create a market.


It's the nintendo philoshopy.

your post is nonsense. nintendo is the most profitable company in the industry for several years...final hardware numbers != profit.

 

[linsivvi]

Because by making games simplier and more acceptable to the traditionally non-gaming population, Nintendo has somehow made playing video games (on the DS anyway) a cool thing.

 

[hahahax]

Video Games were once reserved for a noble breed. Adventurous young action-driven boys.


Sony polarized gaming. By breaking Nintendo's run they claimed edgy grown up content as their own, then they perverted it. Sony injected a disgusting "cool" element such as MTV, street culture, sex, popular music and "trends". All vile and disgusting, foreign to the gamer warrior of old.

This forced Nintendo to cater to little baby kids, and as a result we got kiddy Mario and kiddy Link, Pokemon for 6 year olds, and baby Yoshi. Everyone had to be round and colourful, interactive tele-tubbies episodes. Every sharp edge had to go. Challenge as well.
A sharp contrast from the SNES and NES.

Nintendo became a kiddy company. And it became their basic income generator.
They didn't care that they ruined their classic series in the process.

As Sony continued to expand gaming to unworthy casuals, Nintendo's evil practices (which would had otherwise bankrupted them) payed off. For every pissed of Nintendo war-veteran who left them, they gained 3 new Pokemon kids.

Nintendo as the classic concept of good moral gaming for real gamers does not exist today. Nintendo today share but the name of the company and ownership of their classic franchises with the glorious company of old.

Nintendo's new direction is a direct attack on gaming culture.

Nongaming is such a disgusting trait of humanity, the trendy hip people who couldn't pull of a hadoken, who waved the controller as they tried in vain to have Mario move forward. We saw them as inferior beings. If your aunt, mom, wife our girlfriend play video games, what's the point anymore?
Gaming is about making a statement against society. A club for special people.

The Nintendo Wii and much of the DS content is unintelligent gaming. It's does not require thought nor real gamer dexterity. It's an abominaton catering to the lowest common denominator.

Nongaming is "Inclusive". A popular word these days. The problem is that gaming always was about an elite group of people enjoying themselves knowing that the retarded casuals among them were to dumb to understand!

Iwata and Miyamoto have lost the plot, the forgot about their calling, our mission. They care only about their shareholders approval.


"We will expand on the definition of gaming"

This coming from the self-claimed thought leader and innovator. True at one time, today any serious gamer rolls his eyes in contempt. Gaming's definition is already set in stone. Anything deviating is nongaming.

Nintendo are liars

" Wii is region free"
" Wii will be afforable *wink*"
"Our next console will have incredible graphics, the new standard as NES and N64 were"
"We have 20 new games in production for the GameCube"
"We have made the best ever Mario" (NSMB)
" Zelda Twilight Princess is Gamecube Game above all"


Reggie
Enough said.

Nintendo is hijacked. A creature that needs to be put down to sleep.

And as Nintendo set sail for the blue ocean, this once loyal veteran of the 8 and 16-bit wars in the early ninetees will change his outfit. The fanboy jacket must go in favor of the Corsair's outfit. I'll load the cannons and see to it that Nintendo's ship sink yet. To have the glorious Nintendo legacy rest on the seabed, never again to be tainted by inferior remakes and other revolting shit.

 

[meppi]

...

 

[Kai Dracon]

Video Games were once reserved for a noble breed. Adventurous young action-driven boys.

--

I'm just going to assume this is, in fact, a subtle troll / satire of the l33t h@ardcore gamer who lives in mortal fear of the non-game and is utterly out of touch with the rest of the world that doesn't have Triangle Circle Ex Square tattooted their right butt cheeks.

As such, bravo I say, bravo! Well done!

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Musashi Wins!]

a speech that brings tears to your eyes.

that was the greatest post of all time.

 

[Larry Bird]

Nintendo's new direction is a direct attack on gaming culture.

Gaming is about making a statement against society. A club for special people.

And as Nintendo set sail for the blue ocean, this once loyal veteran of the 8 and 16-bit wars in the early ninetees will change his outfit. The fanboy jacket must go in favor of the Corsair's outfit. I'll load the cannons and see to it that Nintendo's ship sink yet. To have the glorious Nintendo legacy rest on the seabed, never again to be tainted by inferior remakes and other revolting shit.

posts like this are just embarrasing

 

[gutter_trash]

almost every Wii game will requrire different control learning. You will HAVE TO READ THE MANUAL to play your Wii games

that .. is more complicated then standard controllers

 

[Maztorre]

almost every Wii game will requrire different control learning. You will HAVE TO READ THE MANUAL to play your Wii games

that .. is more complicated then standard controllers

If you bothered to read up the page at charlequin's post you might not have made yet another idiotic statement.

How is it more complicated for anyone when a game REMOVES abstractions between performing something in reality and performing something in a game?

We'll go through this again since you don't seem to get it: It is easier for someone to make the connection between swinging a remote and swinging a sword than pressing a circular button with some rudimentary symbol on it and swinging a sword.

 

[mysticstylez]

almost every Wii game will requrire different control learning. You will HAVE TO READ THE MANUAL to play your Wii games

that .. is more complicated then standard controllers

That is 100% true, with a 360 controller I hold it the same way for every game, where as Wii you got games like Need for Speed: Carbon you have 4 different ways to control the game, and every game you are gonna be holding the controller differently and doing different motions with your arms.


I love the idea, but the fact is most launch Wii games are no less complex than games out on current systems.

I believe its just their excuse to take a different route in the console wars cause they were lagging behind.

 

[Maztorre]

Games have had multiple control schemes for a while now chief.

I don't remember everyone complaining when Goldeneye and Perfect Dark provided an assload of different configurations (including using one full N64 controller per hand, for chrissakes) a few years back.

They took a different route in the "console wars" (jesus ****ing christ, OH NO THE CONSOLE WARS!!!) because the domestic business for every games company for Japan was shrinking at a worrisome rate. Also because it made business sense for them to create a system that could be made and sold at a mass-market friendly rate with mass-market friendly games and controls, given the success of the DS.

 

[Future]

almost every Wii game will requrire different control learning. You will HAVE TO READ THE MANUAL to play your Wii games

that .. is more complicated then standard controllers

Not even close. Like the touch screen on the DS, the wii control method is much more natural. Still a learning curve, but easier to connect swinging the controller around to swing your sword instead of pressing a button + analogue stick directions to do it. Much more fun to do as well before you even start hitting anything.

Games ARE too complex...for certain people that is. I'm loving Gears of War, but there is no way my non-gaming friends could even have a chance playing that game. Every button does something, pressing a direction and a button does something else, gotta be able to use both analogue sticks easily...thats already above and beyond the majority of people.

Point a wii controller on a enemy on screen and press a button to shoot? A million times more intuitive to the casual/non gamers. And much cooler

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Video Games were once reserved for a noble breed. Adventurous young action-driven boys.


Sony polarized gaming. By breaking Nintendo's run they claimed edgy grown up content as their own, then they perverted it. Sony injected a disgusting "cool" element such as MTV, street culture, sex, popular music and "trends". All vile and disgusting, foreign to the gamer warrior of old.

This forced Nintendo to cater to little baby kids, and as a result we got kiddy Mario and kiddy Link, Pokemon for 6 year olds, and baby Yoshi. Everyone had to be round and colourful, interactive tele-tubbies episodes. Every sharp edge had to go. Challenge as well.
A sharp contrast from the SNES and NES.

Nintendo became a kiddy company. And it became their basic income generator.
They didn't care that they ruined their classic series in the process.

As Sony continued to expand gaming to unworthy casuals, Nintendo's evil practices (which would had otherwise bankrupted them) payed off. For every pissed of Nintendo war-veteran who left them, they gained 3 new Pokemon kids.

Nintendo as the classic concept of good moral gaming for real gamers does not exist today. Nintendo today share but the name of the company and ownership of their classic franchises with the glorious company of old.

Nintendo's new direction is a direct attack on gaming culture.

Nongaming is such a disgusting trait of humanity, the trendy hip people who couldn't pull of a hadoken, who waved the controller as they tried in vain to have Mario move forward. We saw them as inferior beings. If your aunt, mom, wife our girlfriend play video games, what's the point anymore?
Gaming is about making a statement against society. A club for special people.

The Nintendo Wii and much of the DS content is unintelligent gaming. It's does not require thought nor real gamer dexterity. It's an abominaton catering to the lowest common denominator.

Nongaming is "Inclusive". A popular word these days. The problem is that gaming always was about an elite group of people enjoying themselves knowing that the retarded casuals among them were to dumb to understand!

Iwata and Miyamoto have lost the plot, the forgot about their calling, our mission. They care only about their shareholders approval.


"We will expand on the definition of gaming"

This coming from the self-claimed thought leader and innovator. True at one time, today any serious gamer rolls his eyes in contempt. Gaming's definition is already set in stone. Anything deviating is nongaming.

Nintendo are liars

" Wii is region free"
" Wii will be afforable *wink*"
"Our next console will have incredible graphics, the new standard as NES and N64 were"
"We have 20 new games in production for the GameCube"
"We have made the best ever Mario" (NSMB)
" Zelda Twilight Princess is Gamecube Game above all"


Reggie
Enough said.

Nintendo is hijacked. A creature that needs to be put down to sleep.

And as Nintendo set sail for the blue ocean, this once loyal veteran of the 8 and 16-bit wars in the early ninetees will change his outfit. The fanboy jacket must go in favor of the Corsair's outfit. I'll load the cannons and see to it that Nintendo's ship sink yet. To have the glorious Nintendo legacy rest on the seabed, never again to be tainted by inferior remakes and other revolting shit.

HERO OF THE STUPID.

 

[Y2Kev]

HERO OF THE STUPID.

Well, I thought it was amusing.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

snip

Speaking of euthanasia...


PS: This topic sucks.