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[urk]

How does I measure graficz? Anecdotal evidence inbound!

 

[CTLance]

Threads like these are good lulz. No matter who loses, we all win. Except the losers. They lose.

Uhm... but don't they win at losing? I mean at least that's something.

 

[Yoshi]

uh?! 360 fanboy?

I sincerely doubt it.

probably the new gow will be better (in one year the tecnologies grows, is normal, ) but don't joke uncharted are one of the best graphic and viva pinata or the first gow aren't better.

Did I say better? I said about equal.

 

[jaypah]

am i just a cynic or is the timing of a thread like this a little funny with the R2 news of late, and the arrival of wipeoutHD,LBP/KillZone2 betas scorching up the internets?

yep...

uhhh....it's GAF. there's a thread like this all the time, it just usually doesn't make it past page 1. maybe a die hard PS3 fan would notice this topic more right now because there's been a lot of decent PS3 news lately but this is certainly not out of question for GAF. neither is a million post about how nothing matches Uncharted. fanboys are fucking annoying, no matter what platform they support.

 

[thetrin]

I suggest not giving a fuck!

 

[Tormentoso]

Out of interest:
How much RAM do you think the PS3 has available to games?
How much RAM do you think the 360 has available to games?

A better question will be if the ram the xbox 360 work in the same way as the one on the PS3,since the PS3 uses XDR and GDDR3 the xbox 360 just use GDDR3,and while the xbox 360 may have a little more for video,apparently is not only that what counts is more of a complete package.

I really don't know the xbox 360 GPU is supose to be stronger,even that the RSX is clocked 50MHZ higher,we know that say nothing is not new that lower clocked GPU's are faster than higher clocked ones,but from some place the PS3 advantage is coming.

Is say to have less ram for video because of the OS,so why does Uncharted look better or Killzone 2 than anything on 360.?Why some people may argue this i don't think there is a 360 game with the level of grapchis animation and lighting as Killzone 2,GOW2 look great but just look a little better than the first one.I will wait until a play it on my LCD to say,but from what i have see not even GOW 2 look better than Uncharted.

 

[drakesfortune]

Riiiight :lol

Love how you lock it down as fact too. What's up with people thinking they write reality around here? It's fucked up.

As someone who's played most major games on both platforms and as someone who owns both platforms, I agree that I've seen nothing that touches Uncharted on the 360. I think that Uncharted sits on top of the heap clearly and concisely. After having played through Gears and Uncharted back to back, it's very clear to me that Uncharted has more going on in every department except in the screen tearing department. Uncharted has much better textures, better lighting effects, better bump mapping (less but in my opinion much better looking bump mapping) better shadows by a huge margin and on down the list. Gears is a beautiful game, but it suffers from screen tearing as well (though a LOT less of it), and I think a lot of the textures are very low res made to look high res through bump mapping. In Uncharted you can go up to almost every surface in the game and press your face up against it and the texture still looks great. AND, Uncharted does all of this in much more challenging environments, IE outdoors with trees, leaves, water, and a lot of stuff you just don't see much of in Gears. I think some the new stuff in Gears 2 will be really telling as to what the 360 is capable of when they're tossing more of that stuff in there.

It'll be fun and interesting to see what Gears 2 brings to the table graphically. Epic says that game pushes the 360 as far as it can go. So I'll buy the game and make my final judgments there. Regardless, I thoroughly loved Gears, and I'm sure the same will be said for Gears 2.

That said, the 360 usually has the better looking multiplatform releases. I think the PS3 is capable of more, but it's tough and expensive to get all that HP out of the system, so in the end maybe the 360 wins. I don't know. I tend to buy exclusive titles more than multi platform titles simply because the quality tends to be higher, and the games have bigger budges, so for my first party games I'm really happy with what both platforms have put out there, but I'd give the edge to PS3 on that one mainly because I love Uncharted so much, but it's not the only reason.

 

[jett]

Because Kutaragi/Sony didn't really put too much thought into the PS3 hardware as a video game console. Released one year later than the 360, 200 hundred dollars more expensive and at best it's getting exclusive games that look marginally better than the competition. Let's not even speak of the multiplatform situation. Considering what I mentioned the PS3 should be mirroring the differences between the Xbox and PS2 on multiplatform games last-gen. Even games where the PS3 "leads" look virtually identical on the 360.

 

[jaypah]

A better question will be if the ram the xbox 360 work in the same way as the one on the PS3,since the PS3 uses XDR and GDDR3 the xbox 360 just use GDDR3,and while the xbox 360 may have a little more for video,apparently is not only that what counts is more of a complete package.

I really don't know the xbox 360 GPU is supose to be stronger,even that the RSX is clocked 50MHZ higher,we know that say nothing is not new that lower clocked GPU's are faster than higher clocked ones,but from some place the PS3 advantage is coming.

Is say to have less ram for video because of the OS,so why does Uncharted look better or Killzone 2 than anything on 360.?Why some people may argue this i don't think there is a 360 game with the level of grapchis animation and lighting as Killzone 2,GOW2 look great but just look a little better than the first one.I will wait until a play it on my LCD to say,but from what i have see not even GOW 2 look better than Uncharted.

when it comes to defending the PS3 you are the parry master my friend. you have a counter for all that oppose and i think it's amazing. you're a fountain of knowledge and the fact that you are totally unbiased is just the icing on the cake.

 

[PARANO1A]

A better question will be if the ram the xbox 360 work in the same way as the one on the PS3,since the PS3 uses XDR and GDDR3 the xbox 360 just use GDDR3,and while the xbox 360 may have a little more for video,apparently is not only that what counts is more of a complete package.

I really don't know the xbox 360 GPU is supose to be stronger,even that the RSX is clocked 50MHZ higher,we know that say nothing is not new that lower clocked GPU's are faster than higher clocked ones,but from some place the PS3 advantage is coming.

Is say to have less ram for video because of the OS,so why does Uncharted look better or Killzone 2 than anything on 360.?Why some people may argue this i don't think there is a 360 game with the level of grapchis animation and lighting as Killzone 2,GOW2 look great but just look a little better than the first one.I will wait until a play it on my LCD to say,but from what i have see not even GOW 2 look better than Uncharted.

There area a few key issues with memory:
1) split pool (256/256 on PS3 vs unified pool on 360)... devs having to manually shift items between the pools makes life more difficult, meaning it's harder to work with
2) PS3 operating system chews up a stack of that RAM vs the 360's. I don't have the current count exactly but IIRC it was in the region of 60mb - effecively meaning the PS3 has about 450mb of RAM for games
3) 10mb EDRAM in the 360 for extra-special stuff, which is complex to use effectively, mostly for reducing AA cost to date

When you're discussing Xenos... you are aware that's it's not all about the clock speed right? Go check out your low end current gen GPU clocks vs high end last gen clocks, then compare the performance. It's not just "higher is better". Another way to view it is Intel vs AMD clock speed comparisons. You didn't say it explicitly, but you seem to imply RSX is superior. Here's a pro-tip: it's not.

As for your last comment... if all of this is in favour of 360, why isn't it coming out clearly on top? Re-read my first post in this thread. It's not simply a case of x>y. PS3 makes devs work harder - if they don't you'd get absolute shit out of the system. For Sony's sake, they need their first party to work their fingers to the bone to show that it's worth it - and they have... and that's great for us gamers. It's not an option for most studios however, which is why the 360 is so appealing to many devs - powerful, easy and comparatively cheap.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

It'll be fun and interesting to see what Gears 2 brings to the table graphically. Epic says that game pushes the 360 as far as it can go.

I missed that, got a link?

You're not misquoting this are you?

"I mean, I'm not the technical guy... all I know is that with the two to three more years of optimization that we've had, we're much further along than I think, three years ago, we thought we were going to get.

So I think we're certainly approaching the upper end of it, as far as what developers are able to do with it, but just looking at all the demos we saw today -- ours and others -- it's clear that all the games just keep improving, and keep pushing that bar.

I think it's just a matter of, you know, it's a slow cycle; you only get a kick at it every couple years, and so it takes a while for people to see that progress.

There will be games in development that won't ship until 2010, and I'm sure they'll look killer, just because, again, they'll have more time with it, and learn from mistakes and optimizations of others. So, I don't know; I think we're getting up there, but I still think there's room to grow."

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=18914

 

[JimiNutz]

As someone who's played most major games on both platforms and as someone who owns both platforms, I agree that I've seen nothing that touches Uncharted on the 360. I think that Uncharted sits on top of the heap clearly and concisely. After having played through Gears and Uncharted back to back, it's very clear to me that Uncharted has more going on in every department except in the screen tearing department. Uncharted has much better textures, better lighting effects, better bump mapping (less but in my opinion much better looking bump mapping) better shadows by a huge margin and on down the list. Gears is a beautiful game, but it suffers from screen tearing as well (though a LOT less of it), and I think a lot of the textures are very low res made to look high res through bump mapping. In Uncharted you can go up to almost every surface in the game and press your face up against it and the texture still looks great. AND, Uncharted does all of this in much more challenging environments, IE outdoors with trees, leaves, water, and a lot of stuff you just don't see much of in Gears. I think some the new stuff in Gears 2 will be really telling as to what the 360 is capable of when they're tossing more of that stuff in there.

It'll be fun and interesting to see what Gears 2 brings to the table graphically. Epic says that game pushes the 360 as far as it can go. So I'll buy the game and make my final judgments there. Regardless, I thoroughly loved Gears, and I'm sure the same will be said for Gears 2.

That said, the 360 usually has the better looking multiplatform releases. I think the PS3 is capable of more, but it's tough and expensive to get all that HP out of the system, so in the end maybe the 360 wins. I don't know. I tend to buy exclusive titles more than multi platform titles simply because the quality tends to be higher, and the games have bigger budges, so for my first party games I'm really happy with what both platforms have put out there, but I'd give the edge to PS3 on that one mainly because I love Uncharted so much, but it's not the only reason.

Even if this was said, and I'm not sure that it was, it's important to remember that developers/PR departments will obviously make every effort to sell their game and talk it up as much as possible. Sony said a lot of hyperbolic things about the PS3 before it's release but we all should recognise that companies will say almost anything to help sell their product.
I think Gears 2 will be unmatched graphically for a long time on the 360 but I wouldn't hold it as the final proof of what the 360 is capable of. For that we're gonna have to wait until 2011/2012 when the console is at the end of it's cycle. Only then can this debate receive proper closure.

 

[PSGames]

I will wait until a play it on my LCD to say,but from what i have see not even GOW 2 look better than Uncharted.

I think people are confusing Art dirction with graphics. Uncharted is a beautiful game but when you take scope into account Gears of War 2 is on an entirely different level. The stages for instance are huge with dozens of characters, explosions, particle effects in place. If you can't see that Gears of War is technically superior to Uncharted with all the stuff it has going on something is wrong.

 

[Darkman M]

A shitty thread always brings out the shittest fanboys. Of course nothing will ever look better then your favorite game on your favorite console you douches.

 

[jaypah]

I think people are confusing Art dirction with graphics. Uncharted is a beautiful game but when you take scope into account Gears of War 2 is on an entirely different level. The stages for instance are huge with dozens of characters, explosions, particle effects in place. If you can't see that Gears of War is technically superior to Uncharted with all the stuff it has going on something is wrong.

but is it that cut and dry?


note: it very well may be. i'm just trying to further the conversation. it's all very interesting.

 

[Deadly Monk]

My PC eats them both. For breakfast.

But who cares? I love them all for their exclusive games. Each has it's ups and downs.

I play my 360 more than my ps3. I play my DS more than my PSP. But I still love my ps3 and psp because they have some amazing games. Crazy huh??

 

[Klocker]

...

I really don't know the xbox 360 GPU is supose to be stronger,even that the RSX is clocked 50MHZ higher,....

RSX got downgraded 50MHZ (from E3 05 "specs") before launch. both GPUs run at same clock

Edit: never confirmed by sony as they don't even show the clock in their specs but confirmed by independent sources (B3D)

 

[Raistlin]

Zing!

Reality is, 360 has a better graphics card and superior RAM setup. PS3 is a floating point beast. 360 has more available RAM too.

That is not necessarily the case.

 

[TheExodu5]

I think a few games like Uncharted and Killzone 2 will not be matched on the 360...buuuut...the PS3 has it's share of problems (no unified RAM pool, special-case CPUs) that prevents it from being used effectively in multiplatform games.

@ PARANOIA: it's not necessarily a superior RAM setup. It really depends on the needs of the game.

 

[gtj1092]

Doesn't the fact that people are comparing games that are yet to be released this year to a game that released last fall tell you all you need to know about Uncharted? I don't think anyone has claimed that it will always be the best looking game but the best looking so far.

 

[TheExodu5]

I should add LittleBigPlanet is quite the powerhouse too. It's amazing how complex a level can get, and even with hundreds of objects requiring physics calculations on one screen, the game does not slow down a bit. I think LBP is probably an example of the split RAM pool being advantageous. The split RAM pool is faster, and I'm guessing LBP actually needs as much RAM for physics calulcations as it does VRAM for the graphics.

Of course, I shouldn't leave out Gears 2, which looks pretty damn impressive from videos. We'll have to see if it holds a steady framerate, unlike Gears.

 

[Hunter D]

Because they bought into the sony hype.

Remember when the 360 launched and people were calling the 360 xbox 1.5 and they were saying nextgen starts when the ps3 is released? At launch people weren't impressed with Kameo and it is still one of the better looking games today, doing things that a lot of games today don't do.

And as powerful as the PS3 cpu is the xbox has a better gpu.

 

[Darkman M]

I think a few games like Uncharted and Killzone 2 will not be matched on the 360...buuuut...the PS3 has it's share of problems (no unified RAM pool, special-case CPUs) that prevents it from being used effectively in multiplatform games.

@ PARANOIA: it's not necessarily a superior RAM setup. It really depends on the needs of the game.

No doubt those games look good, but im not seeing these huge differences some of you are trying to make and yes ive played all these games you guys are mentioning. Before it's all over i expect games on both systems to look better then uncharted.

 

[Quazar]

There's the full resolution version of that Mirrors Edge shot. No PS3 or 360 is pulling off that IQ in Mirror's Edge this decade. It's a PC shot, like the vast majority of released screens for multiplatform games.

Sure about that? Game has been demoed entirely on the PS3 and there were clearly jaggies in the released screenshots so they weren't high res bullshots.

:lol :lol

 

[Kill Your Masters]

After having played through Gears and Uncharted back to back, it's very clear to me that Uncharted has more going on in every department except in the screen tearing department.

You mean there especially "more going on" in the tearing department, right

 

[jaypah]

Doesn't the fact that people are comparing games that are yet to be released this year to a game that released last fall tell you all you need to know about Uncharted? I don't think anyone has claimed that it will always be the best looking game but the best looking so far.

well to be fair some currently released games were thrown out there but were shot down. you're all just arguing opinions anyway, lol. so yeah, it has told us all that we need to know about Uncharted.......that it has fans on GAF. we already knew this though.

 

[Metalmurphy]

:lol :lol

What's so funny?

 

[Raistlin]

Sonys hype machine at work

Remember the "emotion engine" crap before PS2? The PS3 Cell-hype was as much bullshit

I strongly disagree. While it can be argued whether Cell was needed in a gaming console, I don't think the hype on the chip itself was misplaced.

 

[JimiNutz]

I should add LittleBigPlanet is quite the powerhouse too. It's amazing how complex a level can get, and even with hundreds of objects requiring physics calculations on one screen, the game does not slow down a bit. I think LBP is probably an example of the split RAM pool being advantageous. The split RAM pool is faster, and I'm guessing LBP actually needs as much RAM for physics calulcations as it does VRAM for the graphics.

Of course, I shouldn't leave out Gears 2, which looks pretty damn impressive from videos. We'll have to see if it holds a steady framerate, unlike Gears.

Maybe going off topic a little bit but what instances are you referring too?
I've played through SP 5+ times and the only time the frame rate drops is during some of the cutscenes. Actual gameplay on Gears 1 seems locked at a stead 30fps for me and I can't remember it noticeably dropping during actual gameplay.
The only other time I can think of the frame rate dropping is during MP when people let off like 2 or 3 smoke grenades at once. If this is what you're referring too then fair enough but people letting off 2 or 3 smokes at once is incredibly rare and a complete non issue for SP.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

I strongly disagree. While it can be argued whether Cell was needed in a gaming console, I don't think the hype on the chip itself was misplaced.

Anyone today seriously still believes in the cell hype? Really?

E3 05: hype misplacement of the forever.

There is not one single game out there that is ONLY POSSIBLE ON CELL(tm).

 

[WrikaWrek]

Assassins Creed, Force Unleashed, GOW 2, these for example look better than Uncharted.

Really, i don't get why people still hang on to that one. Just use Killzone 2 as the example of why PS3 appears to have the more powerful hardware, even though it's the only example.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Anyone today seriously still believes in the cell hype? Really?

E3 05: hype misplacement of the forever.

We know the GPU is inferior, yet exclusive games are looking like this...

if it's not the GPU and not the Cell then what is it?

Assassins Creed, Force Unleashed, GOW 2, these for example look better than Uncharted.

Really, i don't get why people still hang on to that one. Just use Killzone 2 as the example of why PS3 appears to have the more powerful hardware, even though it's the only example.

AC is arguable (no colours, tons and tons of repeated textures/assets), GoW2 isn't out, and Force Unleashed?! :lol

 

[WrikaWrek]

We know the GPU is inferior, yet exclusive games are looking like this...

if it's not the GPU and not the Cell then what is it?

Killzone 2, not "exclusives". I guess spending all your money on tech has it's beneficts, Bungie should take note.

AC is arguable, GoW2 isn't out, but Force Unleashed?! :lol

Do you have Force Unleashed? Looks better than Uncharted, and it's doing more tech wise. And Wtf at the repetition thing, Uncharted enemies all look the same, and the foliage is green, so it's not like it has a ton shit of colors either. It's just more vivid. But it's a corridor game, and doesn't come close to the scope of AC.

 

[Squeak]

The Xenos is not more powerful than RSX. It's more flexible, true, but not more powerful.
PS3 has it's flexibility where it matters, on the CPU. all in one big pool. And it's real general purpose flexibility. Not some kind of "can work around to do other stuff if we have to" flexibility.
RSX will kill Xenos any time in shading and for geometry the RSX transformation hardware, is only meant for brute force stuff like rigid environments and simple effects.
A good CPU will always be better for specialty stuff.
Cell is more powerful than Xenon, and not just by a little. Transistorcount alone should tell you part of the story.
About the RAM split. GPUs and CPUs has widely different RAM usage patterns. It makes very good sense to split it up, so you give each the RAM that is best suited for the purpose.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Killzone 2, not "exclusives". I guess spending all your money on tech has it's beneficts, Bungie should take note.

One example of many.

Do you have Force Unleashed? Looks better than Uncharted, and it's doing more tech wise.

So was GTA4... Slaping Havok and Euphoria doesn't make a game look better. Force Unleashed looks like crap compared to Uncharted.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

We know the GPU is inferior, yet exclusive games are looking like this...

if it's not the GPU and not the Cell then what is it?

So is it only possible thanks to the cell? Impossible on any other platform? Cell exclusive graphics? Never can be done anywhere except on Cell systems? Did Cell program this game by itself? Is Cell actually an AI with the brainpower of one thousand Ken Kutaragis which makes such graphics possible?

 

[Dali]

Assassins Creed, Force Unleashed, GOW 2, these for example look better than Uncharted.

Really, i don't get why people still hang on to that one. Just use Killzone 2 as the example of why PS3 appears to have the more powerful hardware, even though it's the only example.

The only game you've listed that isn't multi-platform, hasn't been released yet. You are comparing the graphics on a year old game to one that hasn't even been completed.

 

[WrikaWrek]

One example of many.


So was GTA4... Slaping Havok and Euphoria doesn't make a game look better. Force Unleashed looks like crap compared to Uncharted.

It's not one example of many, since it's the only one.

And no Force Unleashed doesn't look like crap compared to Uncharted, it looks better. I bet you don't even have the game.

The only game you've listed that isn't multi-platform, hasn't been released yet. You are comparing the graphics on a year old game to one that hasn't even been completed.

Who gives a shit if they are multi platform or not? Wait, wtf is there some sort of pre requisite in order to pick up the roster team for the graphics fight? :lol :lol :lol

 

[Metalmurphy]

So is it only possible thanks to the cell? Impossible on any other platform? Cell exclusive graphics? Never can be done anywhere except on Cell systems? Did Cell program this game by itself? Is Cell actually an AI with the brainpower of one thousand Ken Kutaragis which makes such graphics possible?

Are you expecting me to reason with you when you're making comments like that?

 

[gtj1092]

well to be fair some currently released games were thrown out there but were shot down. you're all just arguing opinions anyway, lol. so yeah, it has told us all that we need to know about Uncharted.......that it has fans on GAF. we already knew this though.

So you are saying there is no merit to Uncharted being one of the best looking games that is simply fandom.

edit:/ So its the developers fault for Ps3 exclusives looking great and has nothing to do with the Ps3 its self.

 

[Rpgmonkey]

Now is fighty time

yes, yes, the fighty, the fighty

:lol

 

[Synless]

Assassins Creed, Force Unleashed, GOW 2, these for example look better than Uncharted.

Really, i don't get why people still hang on to that one. Just use Killzone 2 as the example of why PS3 appears to have the more powerful hardware, even though it's the only example.

Force Unleashed??? Are you kidding me, I'll give you Assassins Creed and GOW 2, but no way in hell is Force Unleashed a better looking game then Uncharted.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Are you expecting me to reason with you when you're making comments like that?

Obviously not as I think that justifying the early cell hype is not worthy any serious discussion

 

[Y2Kev]

Yikes, this is like one of those threads where people argue the Dreamcast had better graphics because of DOA2 or something.

 

[TheExodu5]

The only game you've listed that isn't multi-platform, hasn't been released yet. You are comparing the graphics on a year old game to one that hasn't even been completed.

To be fair though, even Gears 1 stands as one of the best looking console games 2 years after release, so it goes both ways.

 

[Raist]

Do you have Force Unleashed? Looks better than Uncharted, and it's doing more tech wise.

Please tell me you're joking. I can see why you think AC is better (I don't think so, but whatever) but SWTFU and UDF aren't in the same league. At all.

 

[Ranger X]

I suggest not giving a fuck!

indeed!

 

[Gaogaogao]

needs moar cell middleware, me thinks.

I also suggest not giving a fuck.

 

[Metalmurphy]

It's not one example of many, since it's the only one.

No, it's not....

And no Force Unleashed doesn't look like crap compared to Uncharted, it looks better. I bet you don't even have the game.

Unless they remade it from scratch after the demo then I don't need to have it. And no, it doesn't.

 

[WrikaWrek]

Please tell me you're joking. I can see why you think AC is better (I don't think so, but whatever) but SWTFU and UDF aren't in the same league. At all.

Why?

I play both games, and i think they look just as good with a difference, FU is doing more, bigger scope, more physics and shit.

No, it's not....

http://i33.tinypic.com/21amfkl.jpg[/IMG

Unless they remade it from scratch after the demo then I don't need to have it. And no, it doesn't.[/QUOTE]

So you don't have the game. And Uncharted looks great, i didn't say otherwise, but Killzone 2 still remains the only game on the PS3 that looks better than anything available for the 360.

And yes it does.