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[CrudeDiatribe]

Ephidel, please post more often.

I think one question that comes up is this: are conversations like these proof that there should be women-only gaming forums? (Or, at least, forums where men would need a "sponsor" or be under high scrutiny.)

I would hope not, in the same way I hope Québec stays in Canada; I could see why they'd want to leave, but I think we'd be worse for it.

 

[Keri]

As a result of that, even though I love games like Gods Eater, I have never once played them online. Because who knows, maybe I'm actually terrible, and if I do the same online then somehow they'll know, and my actions will play some small part in excluding the next girl who comes along, and I don't want to be responsible for that.

Similarly, while I wasn't at all shy about participating in raids, discussions, and all sorts in World of Warcraft, after some of the shit I received during the raids in which I spoke I very rarely spoke aloud again. [/b]

I am the same way. I generally avoid online gaming. I'm not naturally good at games. I'm usually comically bad at first, but become good over time and with practice. I suspect this is true for a lot of men, but in an online game, I doubt this would be acknowledged. I worry that it will be discovered I'm a woman and then the ridicule will be magnified. There are plenty of games I can play on my own, so it just doesn't seem worth the bother.

The only exception is Fat Princess, which I will play online. Even this probably feeds into a stereotype that women only like children's games, but what can you do. Also, for the one game I'll play online, I absolutely will not speak. I've heard other women chat on these games and it's a crapshoot: if you're playing with people you already know, it will probably be fine. If not, there's a decent chance you'll spend the game being called a slut or a whore, being told to make someone a sandwich or "bend over and take it."

Its just one more thing that isn't worth the trouble. Maybe I'm a bad feminist for not taking up the charge on this, but I have plenty of real-life fights that wear me out (I'm an attorney, so I have to spend time convincing old school Judges I'm not just a little girl lost in the courtroom). There are areas in my life where I'm not afraid to speak up and be the odd-girl out, but I play games to relax...so I take the easiest route, which is avoiding online gaming and staying quiet.

 

[Cyan]

I actually hit submit. WhathaveIdonewhathaveIdonewhathaveIdone

Good post.

 

[jimi_dini]

Why would a baby be upset about a joke about men?

You are so funny. I love you.

 

[besada]

I am the same way. I generally avoid online gaming. I'm not naturally good at games. I'm usually comically bad at first, but become good over time and with practice. I suspect this is true for a lot of men, but in an online game, I doubt this would be acknowledged. I worry that it will be discovered I'm a woman and then the ridicule will be magnified. There are plenty of games I can play on my own, so it just doesn't seem worth the bother.

If it makes you feel any better, I am also terrible at online games. I still play them, but I get yelled at a lot. My solution is to turn down the chat and not give a fuck. Online is full of angry man-children who will scream at anyone attempting to enjoy themselves in any way that's even slightly different from the way they enjoy themselves.

Also, welcome to GAF everyone.

 

[meijiko]

Ephidel, thanks for posting. Don't worry; you're safe here.

Your anecdotes reminded me of some of my own.

Ever since I was really little (like 3 years old), I've always watched people play video games. Whether it was my dad playing SMB, my mom playing Dr. Mario, my brothers playing Tecmo Bowl or Ninja Turtles or Bionic Commando, I loved it all. It was my comfortable place. I didn't actually start playing anything that wasn't Sesame Street until I was around 8 or so, when my family got a SNES and I played the shit out of LttP. I've considered myself a gamer since then, though I still really enjoyed watching my brothers play other games.

Fast forward to high school, when I start hanging out with friends and playing games with them. They pull out the multiplayer games, like MKDD and Melee. I had very limited experience with these games, but I play anyway. I get decimated at every turn. It was kind of discouraging because it happened every time, and I actually started to believe I was just bad at video games because I'm a girl. So when I could, I would just sit back and watch them play.

Even now, when I'm 24 and out of college, I find myself hesitant to play games in front of other people that aren't my husband, unless I've got some experience with them. I understand that everyone usually starts out bad at a game, especially with unfamiliar genres, but I'm always genuinely scared to perpetuate the stereotype that girls are bad at games. When I first went to PAX I was extremely hesitant to play any games. I finally caved when I saw this one indie game that was designed around the guitar controller. I'd played my fair share of Rock Band, so I thought it would be okay. But I did so horribly, and I got incredibly embarrassed. I didn't touch another game for the rest of the con. I'm also not much fun at arcades for the same reason.

I don't really blame the community at large for my insecurities, but I feel I would have no problem with playing games I suck at if I were a guy. If I didn't feel like I was representing my gender when I play a game.

 

[someday]

Welcome Ephidel! That was a great post and I'm glad you hit "submit." Reading that, I don't think you'll have any problems here. This is a ultimately a pretty inclusive forum (especially when compared to other gaming sites) and thoughtful posting really is rewarded.

 

[Karkador]

I don't really blame the community at large for my insecurities, but I feel I would have no problem with playing games I suck at if I were a guy. If I didn't feel like I was representing my gender when I play a game.

As a guy, I've gotta say that I've been in plenty of situations where I've bombed at games (video or otherwise) and felt embarassed by it, and I think there are people out there who will rub this in your face (male or female) and it'd make anyone feel bad. I push through this by just sticking to games that I have fun playing, whether I win or lose.

This is a ultimately a pretty inclusive forum (especially when compared to other gaming sites) and thoughtful posting really is rewarded.

I get what you're saying here, but honestly, the bar that NeoGAF is beating is pretty damn low.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Just as a somewhat relevant observation that came up during some housecleaning in regards to moderation, it was noted that this thread reached 493 pages (unintentionally well above where we usually cutoff threads and start new ones). It's a thread about an iOS game, so I figured I'd mention it:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=506260&page=493

 

[someday]

I get what you're saying here, but honestly, the bar that NeoGAF is beating is pretty damn low.

I think this huge thread established this. I just meant that GAF isn't always the soul-crushing place that xboxlive can be for women, transgendered people, or gays. I mean, we want her to stay right?

 

[Karkador]

I think this huge thread established this. I just meant that GAF isn't always the soul-crushing place that xboxlive can be for women, transgendered people, or gays. I mean, we want her to stay right?

Of course, I just don't like the idea of being complacent with the problems because "it's okay, at least we're not Xbox Live."

 

[Reishiki]

I think this huge thread established this. I just meant that GAF isn't always the soul-crushing place that xboxlive can be for women, transgendered people, or gays. I mean, we want her to stay right?

I certainly feel pretty happy here. I put that down to three fairly simple things;

a) Good moderation
b) NeoGAF doesn't seem attract malicious transphobes (Although it does still have it's fair share of ignorant ones, but I care about them less)
c) A TG community thread

 

[Zucchi]

Count me in as another girl who lurks 99% of the time and is intimidated by this forum somewhat. I've been reading Neogaf since before the Neo, been registered since 2006 and still only managed to amass a handful of posts.

Ephidel, I know those posting anxiety feels

 

[HK-47]

So are we back on topic here or we still derailed?

 

[Platy]

So are we back on topic here or we still derailed?

People keep derailing a good discussion about batman jars saying that it is because videogames aren't made with "batman jar" lovers in mind and therefore we cannot have "batman jar" lovers who also happen to be videogame lovers.... which makes no sense since we have PLENTY of batman videogames, even if they don't include jars in then

 

[User 100115]

TL;DR: I, personally, am less active than I would like to be because this forum can feel like a hostile environment, and I want to come here for entertainment rather than to traipse through a minefield. Furthermore, I am not comfortable with the fact that actions I take (or mistakes that I make) may somehow manage to reflect on my entire gender rather than just me (and I don't think I only think that because I'm paranoid or self obsessed). I know that my attempts to minimize the 'damage' by making fewer actions won't actually solve the problem, but that doesn't make it any easier to stop doing so.

You are amazing, please post more often. Now I want to resub to WoW again so I can get you to join MY guild, where I run the show, and we have a ton of women kicking all kinds of ass. Vent anytime you want!

I admit, I am pretty shy about talking on vent even in my own damned guild. Mostly because of experiences in other peoples guilds. As I've said before, apparently I have a rather sultry voice (I had no idea until I started joining vent and mumble servers), so it made things rather difficult back when you had to be on vent to do 40 man raids.

Count me in as another girl who lurks 99% of the time and is intimidated by this forum somewhat. I've been reading Neogaf since before the Neo, been registered since 2006 and still only managed to amass a handful of posts.

Ephidel, I know those posting anxiety feels

I am so glad more of us are coming out of the woodwork with this thread. Post more!

 

[Messofanego]

I don't mean to sully the discussion as a guy, but before I joined I was pretty intimidated by this place too. Had all these preconceptions like this is the most adult gaming forum, how easily you could get banned for silly comments, no trolling allowed, and I can be made a laughing stock with reply gifs. Must be very tough to add a whole other list of posting worries on top of that if you're not a heterosexual male.

Ephidel, I can see how stressful it would be to worry that you're representing a whole gender in front of all these eyeballs. If I was the only muslim here and made to respond in related threads, I'd just bail because I'm not a perfect representative. It's not been like that, and once I saw there are other people like me (the ramadan thread was fun), I didn't feel like having to stick up for my values all the time.

 

[Anastasia]

I think one question that comes up is this: are conversations like these proof that there should be women-only gaming forums? (Or, at least, forums where men would need a "sponsor" or be under high scrutiny.)

It's an interesting question for me because it also comes up when dealing with the trans topic. In discussions and panels, I've touched upon the "separation vs integration" argument, and there are positives to both.

On one side, you're provided an environment where you won't instantly feel alienated from conversation due to a core aspect of who you are. And, it might be nice to feel confident that certain discussions won't be derailed in ways that can be quick to happen on forums with both sexes (when there's no filter to the types of men that will be members).

On the other, if we always break ourselves off into separate groups, we're potentially blocking ourselves off from differing opinions that might help broaden our own, and we're avoiding the chance to help others have that same opportunity by their interactions with someone different (us).

(This May or may not have come up at this point - I've tried to keep up with the thread, but have missed some blocks of pages.)

I don't think there is anything wrong with having a separate place to discuss these issues, as long as there are still people who will try to raise the level of knowledge and discourse in the general community. I think that provides the best of both worlds. IRC channels are a good alternative for talking about stuff like this as well.

 

[Black1ce]

I'm a heterosexual male and even I think some topics on GAF are intimidating. I steer away from posting on the gaming side.
My gf plays mobile games all the time. When I ask her to join, she just says she's not into big video games (consoles, PC). Interestingly, today I sent her the link on "Cooking tips"; she liked the suggestions on that threads so much that she actually asked me how can she go about making an GAF account. Looks like girl-GAF might get another member in a few months.

 

[Vermillion]

It seems like a common theme that people are afraid of Gaming Side. Certainly there are controversial threads, but it seems like women either post in them or avoid them, still. There's a huge thread on gaming (Pokemon) where a female poster corrected some guy on her gender. That was many pages ago with no negative effects (that I can see). Hell, she's still actively posting.

I can understand stereotype threat as something that scares people (believe you me, I *really* do), but ultimately gaming side is pretty friendly if you're not on team Microsoft or think mobile games are the future, lol. Try it out; I'm sure that you all have plenty to contribute.

 

[The Technomancer]

It seems like a common theme that people are afraid of Gaming Side. Certainly there are controversial threads, but it seems like women either post in them or avoid them, still. There's a huge thread on gaming (Pokemon) where a female poster corrected some guy on her gender. That was many pages ago with no negative effects (that I can see). Hell, she's still actively posting.

I can understand stereotype threat as something that scares people (believe you me, I *really* do), but ultimately gaming side is pretty friendly if you're not on team Microsoft or think mobile games are the future, lol. Try it out; I'm sure that you all have plenty to contribute.

I don't think the issue is just mentioning your gender. I think some of the female posters are saying that they're nervous about how their gender might be used to judge them when it comes to any opinion more complex then "I think widely regarded as good thing X is also good"

 

[Figboy79]

My wife doesn't participate in gaming forums like neogaf, but she does participate in other social forums.

She's not a particular fan of Facebook, and only uses it to play some of the games on there like Candy Crush or Farmville 2.

With that said, she is a pretty hardcore gamer. She plays Mass Effect, Fallout, Elder Scrolls, currently Diablo 3 on PS3, and she's still addicted to Terraria, which she's sunk a few hundred hours in on both PC and PS3.

She's mostly into RPGs, action or traditional, eastern or western. She's been gaming since she was a little girl, and she's 31 now. There are more female gamers than we give credit for, but many of them stay quiet and away from gaming forums because of various reasons, one of them being the general hostility, condescension, and sexism they receive. I'm sure there are plenty female members of gaf who have chosen to keep their sex to themselves because, well, it really does seem to change the conversation when people learn of the gender or race of posters. We may not think so, but it does happen, and I've seen it often in the past, here and otherwise.

I can understand why they'd want to remain anonymous. Female gamers are, to be quite honest, treated like they aren't "true" gamers, or that it's "cute" that they're dipping their toes into the gaming pool. And, oh, did you get into it because your boyfriend/husband/father/brother, etc, because, god forbid a woman be interested in anything that's not Barbies and pink. Only a man could introduce a woman to gaming!/sarcasm.

Me and my wife have this conversation often, as she is also huge into comic books and animation, and is a fan of many of the same things I am (ie, Batman, X-Men, Spider-Man, Archer, Samurai Champloo, Trigun, etc; she actually introduced me to Trigun because I'd never seen it).

NeoGAF is predominantly male because it is. Over time, there will probably be more females joining the ranks. It may never be an even spread, but it really shouldn't matter in the first place. I just hope that some of the condescension ("do you know what the "X" button does?" this was actually said to my wife by her supervisor when she worked at Activision and was testing games for them) and the often expressed sentiment that female gamers are only into "casual" games (I hear that one at the office all of the time by my fellow male co-workers, gets kept in check when they decide to reveal themselves and become a part of this community.

 

[Vermillion]

I don't think the issue is just mentioning your gender. I think some of the female posters are saying that they're nervous about how their gender might be used to judge them when it comes to particularly controversial or at least invested discussions.

That's what I thought. I was just saying that I've never seen that, either. Of course, I'm not a female, so I can't tell you what they've been messaged or what they see in posts that I don't. If anyone has any experiences on here running counter to my point then I'd love to hear them. It's just... it seems friendly enough. Or at least, the heat in most threads doesn't deal with gender.

EDIT: I think that does a disservice to the types of conversations that women get into on Gaming Side. I've seen many get just as in depth with their opinions as guys do. I've never seen them treated any differently, even after mentioning their gender (in any normal gaming thread). But again - not a woman, so I don't have that full range to draw from.

 

[User 100115]

Side note story: I know a really, really good woman animator who has always been a huge gaming fan. She's been regulated to teaching other people how to animate, since every where she's worked ended up shoving her into the 'cutesy, adorable' animation types, which gets old after awhile.

 

[Vermillion]

Side note story: I know a really, really good female animator who has always been a huge gaming fan. She's been relegated to teaching other people how to animate, since every where she's worked ended up shoving her into the 'cutesy, adorable' animation types, which gets old after awhile.

That's odd :/ You'd think that if anything they'd at least put her on everything but hyper-realistic games, going by stereotypes. That sucks.

 

[User 100115]

That's odd :/ You'd think that if anything they'd at least put her on everything but hyper-realistic games, going by stereotypes. That sucks.

Honestly, it might be because she has such a bubbly personality. She has a ton of strength in fantastical creatures and horror, but she's never been assigned anything remotely like that. It sucks, and she finally just gave up. She's enjoying teaching, but she'd rather make games.

 

[Valhelm]

I'm a little bit intimidated by the gaming side, but really just because I don't follow the game industry as closely as most of the other posters.

 

[hey_monkey]

So much to say.

I think one question that comes up is this: are conversations like these proof that there should be women-only gaming forums? (Or, at least, forums where men would need a "sponsor" or be under high scrutiny.)

There are plenty of insular communities if that's what someone wants. Some have been referenced in this thread. For some people, that works better.

Some threads on this forum can have a very ... off-putting tone. Not always, but definitely sometimes, and this thread has only emphasised that for me (as if it needed emphasising).
Unfortunately, people don't always dismiss things because they're being hostile, and it would probably be easier if they did, because attempts can be made to combat that. The problem is that I honestly believe most of them don't realise what they're doing, or don't see any problem with it, or were only joking, or think that it's harmless. And I don't know what you can do against that.
Some people seem to think it's fine because the actual female posters on this forum are not being targeted with their sexism, innuendo, or vitriol (although I've seen that happen too), yet fail to notice that directing it at someone or something else makes the topics just as unpleasant. It makes them a hostile place to be, or a dismissive one, and in some cases I think that might actually be worse.
Also, some of the sex, healthcare, and abortion topics just end up making my skin crawl.

But while all of those things are ... awkward ... they certainly aren't the only reason I over-moderate my posting habits. I do this because I am petrified that any action I take will reflect on countless people that I don't even know and I don't want to do that.

Obviously I can only speak for myself here, but that's honestly a big reason for me, so I was wondering whether anyone else had experienced similar.
You see, while I may have no problems admitting I am wrong, and I don't care overly if I look stupid for expressing something badly or having a dumb opinion, I do care that my expression of a dumb opinion may make it harder for other people to express themselves in future without being dismissed out of hand.

You are definitely not alone. That feeling of representing all women is so common it's even on that white male privilege checklist that gets linked everywhere.

More below. And again, I'm so glad you're joining the conversation.

Also, for the one game I'll play online, I absolutely will not speak. I've heard other women chat on these games and it's a crapshoot: if you're playing with people you already know, it will probably be fine. If not, there's a decent chance you'll spend the game being called a slut or a whore, being told to make someone a sandwich or "bend over and take it."

Its just one more thing that isn't worth the trouble. Maybe I'm a bad feminist for not taking up the charge on this, but I have plenty of real-life fights that wear me out (I'm an attorney, so I have to spend time convincing old school Judges I'm not just a little girl lost in the courtroom). There are areas in my life where I'm not afraid to speak up and be the odd-girl out, but I play games to relax...so I take the easiest route, which is avoiding online gaming and staying quiet.

You know, I can't remember the last time I spoke when playing Xbox Live unless I was with friends. I did when I played FFXI, and during my year or so of WoW, but I was good at those games and not at all worried, and it probably helped that I was usually with at least one friend, even if they weren't talking. But Xbox Live is an especially vicious animal. I remember being wildly surprised playing Settlers of Catan online one night and the chat was awesome. Everyone was just cool. I wanted to thank those people, though they wouldn't have understood why. Well, they know Xbox Live sucks, but wouldn't have understood like a woman would.

There is a long tradition of women being silenced and in turn silencing themselves. Just look at the stories coming out now. And women who do speak up in defense of themselves in bad situations? Are shrews, bitches, cunts; they want to be a man, they get in peoples' faces. It is so often easier to just be quiet.

And those men sharing sort-of similar stories and adding "oh, but it never bothered me" or "oh, that's just how it is," listen. I understand you're trying to be cool here, and constructive. Please listen when I tell you that doesn't help. I'm glad you're able to let it not bother you. But the point these women are making about being forced to represent a whole gender is a good one. And even if you are a minority yourself and have been in this situation and were okay with it, that's great for you -- but I ask you to please be sensitive to those who find it crushing.

Consider this if you haven't: in the U.S., men-only job posts were only made illegal in the 60s/70s. Sexual harassment was only ruled discrimination in the workplace in the 80s. This is really recent history, and these are things that kept us second class citizens.

Racial and gender discrimination are still hard facts in the US and though things are changing all the time (not always for the better....), we're all still (I hope) trying to learn to navigate a more equal world. It's difficult.

My wife doesn't participate in gaming forums like neogaf, but she does participate in other social forums.

She's not a particular fan of Facebook, and only uses it to play some of the games on there like Candy Crush or Farmville 2.

With that said, she is a pretty hardcore gamer. She plays Mass Effect, Fallout, Elder Scrolls, currently Diablo 3 on PS3, and she's still addicted to Terraria, which she's sunk a few hundred hours in on both PC and PS3.

She's mostly into RPGs, action or traditional, eastern or western. She's been gaming since she was a little girl, and she's 31 now. There are more female gamers than we give credit for, but many of them stay quiet and away from gaming forums because of various reasons, one of them being the general hostility, condescension, and sexism they receive. I'm sure there are plenty female members of gaf who have chosen to keep their sex to themselves because, well, it really does seem to change the conversation when people learn of the gender or race of posters. We may not think so, but it does happen, and I've seen it often in the past, here and otherwise.

I can understand why they'd want to remain anonymous. Female gamers are, to be quite honest, treated like they aren't "true" gamers, or that it's "cute" that they're dipping their toes into the gaming pool. And, oh, did you get into it because your boyfriend/husband/father/brother, etc, because, god forbid a woman be interested in anything that's not Barbies and pink. Only a man could introduce a woman to gaming!/sarcasm.

Me and my wife have this conversation often, as she is also huge into comic books and animation, and is a fan of many of the same things I am (ie, Batman, X-Men, Spider-Man, Archer, Samurai Champloo, Trigun, etc; she actually introduced me to Trigun because I'd never seen it).

NeoGAF is predominantly male because it is. Over time, there will probably be more females joining the ranks. It may never be an even spread, but it really shouldn't matter in the first place. I just hope that some of the condescension ("do you know what the "X" button does?" this was actually said to my wife by her supervisor when she worked at Activision and was testing games for them) and the often expressed sentiment that female gamers are only into "casual" games (I hear that one at the office all of the time by my fellow male co-workers, gets kept in check when they decide to reveal themselves and become a part of this community.

I hope, if there are people who don't want to listen to us, they at least listen to the people like you.

 

[Valhelm]

I need to say that it's hilarious how the thigh gap thread, which was meant to be about women's body issues, has devolved into a blatantly objectifying circlejerk, where people post pictures of their favorite types of women's asses.

Good going, Gaf.

 

[The Technomancer]

I need to say that it's hilarious how the thigh gap thread, which was meant to be about women's body issues, has devolved into a blatantly objectifying circlejerk, where people post pictures of their favorite types of women's asses.

Good going, Gaf.

Welcome to what every thread that is about both physical appearances and women turns into after about one page.

I really don't care about the dedicated "hot women" threads. Its the diversion of other ones that gets on my nerves.

 

[Vermillion]

Honestly, it might be because she has such a bubbly personality. She has a ton of strength in fantastical creatures and horror, but she's never been assigned anything remotely like that. It sucks, and she finally just gave up. She's enjoying teaching, but she'd rather make games.

That sucks. There's not much I can say about it... Dunno what she should do. Maybe if Jackson or Esco have suggestions...?

 

[hey_monkey]

Welcome to what every thread that is about both physical appearances and women turns into after about one page.

I really don't care about the dedicated "hot women" threads. Its the diversion of other ones that gets on my nerves.

Yep. All the way.

 

[Vermillion]

I'm a little bit intimidated by the gaming side, but really just because I don't follow the game industry as closely as most of the other posters.

GAF is the main way that I keep up with the industry.

 

[Valhelm]

Welcome to what every thread that is about both physical appearances and women turns into after about one page.

I really don't care about the dedicated "hot women" threads. Its the diversion of other ones that gets on my nerves.

I don't think there's a problem with the hot women threads.

IMO, there should always be a "hot women" and "hot men" thread. It's a shame they had to be closed.

I bet that if we did have these, every other thread that mentions young women wouldn't be derailed in such a gross way.

 

[Vermillion]

Welcome to what every thread that is about both physical appearances and women turns into after about one page.

I really don't care about the dedicated "hot women" threads. Its the diversion of other ones that gets on my nerves.

Yep. All the way.

Upon some reflection, I'm not sure that the comments about attractiveness are the problem on their own. I was just reading another thread about a male - someone made a comment on his attractiveness and... the thread went on as normal. So I'm thinking that the comments on attractiveness are similar to PunGAF and "first post nails it."

I love many puns and first posts, but many people have complained about them because they get way out of hand and you eventually have a multi-page thread that goes no deeper than the most clever post. And it's not like the post is bad by itself - a couple comments on it wouldn't hurt anything. The problem is when it becomes so all-consuming that nothing else can be discussed. Same for discussing how attractive a woman is, I suppose.

Dunno how that would be fixed, except for members to limit themselves when it comes to discussion. Consider those comments to be a limited, shared resource... I wonder if there's a forum of mostly women out there that has the same problem with the genders flipped... Probably not.

 

[natsuyasumi]

I bet that if we did have these, every other thread that mentions young women wouldn't be derailed in such a gross way.

Ever the optimist, eh?

 

[User 100115]

Upon some reflection, I'm not sure that the comments about attractiveness are the problem on their own. I was just reading another thread about a male - someone made a comment on his attractiveness and... the thread went on as normal. So I'm thinking that the comments on attractiveness are similar to PunGAF and "first post nails it."

I love many puns and first posts, but many people have complained about them because they get way out of hand and you eventually have a multi-page thread that goes no deeper than the most clever post. And it's not like the post is bad by itself - a couple comments on it wouldn't hurt anything. The problem is when it becomes so all-consuming that nothing else can be discussed. Same for discussing how attractive a woman is, I suppose.

Dunno how that would be fixed, except for members to limit themselves when it comes to discussion. Consider those comments to be a limited, shared resource... I wonder if there's a forum of mostly women out there that has the same problem with the genders flipped... Probably not.

See, it's not just the random comments. One would expect them in a thread about a celebrity. But when the topic of the OP is something else entirely, and the majority of the discussion revolves around looks, that's when it become a problem.

Take, for example, the Angelina Jolie Mastectomy thread. So many posts mourning the loss of her breasts, a lot questioning why she took that step even though it was explained in detail several times, and some who were outright angered by her taking her health seriously. People were calling it a 'publicity stunt' and claiming that she'd do anything for attention, and damn it, she should have waited until she actually had cancer, a 60% chance isn't enough to warrant the loss of the amazing boobs.

THAT's the kind of thing we have a problem with.

 

[Vermillion]

See, it's not just the random comments. One would expect them in a thread about a celebrity. But when the topic of the OP is something else entirely, and the majority of the discussion revolves around looks, that's when it become a problem.

Take, for example, the Angelina Jolie Mastectomy thread. So many posts mourning the loss of her breasts, a lot questioning why she took that step even though it was explained in detail several times, and some who were outright angered by her taking her health seriously. People were calling it a 'publicity stunt' and claiming that she'd do anything for attention, and damn it, she should have waited until she actually had cancer, a 60% chance isn't enough to warrant the loss of the amazing boobs.

THAT's the kind of thing we have a problem with.

Well that's just depressing.

 

[User 100115]

Well that's just depressing.

Yep. Also, considering at the time she had the mastectomy she opted to have breast reconstruction and therefore, will still have boobs, just not natural ones, it's sorta disgusting.

 

[sohois]

I don't think there's a problem with the hot women threads.

IMO, there should always be a "hot women" and "hot men" thread. It's a shame they had to be closed.

I bet that if we did have these, every other thread that mentions young women wouldn't be derailed in such a gross way.

Even when the hot women threads were still around I'm sure plenty of other threads would still devolve into such ogling. And I don't believe that it was the site which had an issue with the threads but the advertisers, hence their closure. Of course what should then happen is other threads which go that way should also be locked...

Upon some reflection, I'm not sure that the comments about attractiveness are the problem on their own. I was just reading another thread about a male - someone made a comment on his attractiveness and... the thread went on as normal. So I'm thinking that the comments on attractiveness are similar to PunGAF and "first post nails it."

I love many puns and first posts, but many people have complained about them because they get way out of hand and you eventually have a multi-page thread that goes no deeper than the most clever post. And it's not like the post is bad by itself - a couple comments on it wouldn't hurt anything. The problem is when it becomes so all-consuming that nothing else can be discussed. Same for discussing how attractive a woman is, I suppose.

Dunno how that would be fixed, except for members to limit themselves when it comes to discussion. Consider those comments to be a limited, shared resource... I wonder if there's a forum of mostly women out there that has the same problem with the genders flipped... Probably not.

...But it seems like they are often given free reign for quite some time until they get too nsfw or off topic and are locked. I recall Opiate complaining about such derailments and declaring his intention to try and shut them down somewhat, but they still proliferate. I suppose it's difficult, given the size of the board to keep with all the threads and act swiftly in the case of derailment.

Still, I can't help but wonder if the solution is to be extremely harsh, handing out (very short term) bans to anyone participating in such activities and hope that the community can be quickly trained out of it. Though, on the other hand, this would also be rather draconian and I'm sure people don't want some sexless board where any such discussion is shut down. It's hard to see what line is the right one to draw.

 

[IWKYB]

As a girl, I think it might have to do with the stigma of being a girl who likes games, simply put. A lot of my female gamer friends are shy about the fact that they'd rather play a game than go out. Many are shy about it and feel that it ostracizes them; I sometimes feel this too. I think that there's a certain expectation when saying "I'm a girl gamer!" so a lot feel pressured to fit into that mold.

If you could just drop the girl moniker and call yourself a gamer...

 

[goldenpp72]

If you could just drop the girl moniker and call yourself a gamer...

Surprisingly, this doesn't tend to work in real life most of the time.

 

[IWKYB]

Surprisingly, this doesn't tend to work in real life most of the time.

I don't say I'm a boy gamer. Seems stupid to me.Like I'm a male movie enthusiast or a male bird watcher. Redundant and segregated rather than just saying I like dem video games. For some reason putting gender in front of things has always bugged me. Meh.

 

[Pau]

I don't say I'm a boy gamer. Seems stupid to me.Like I'm a male movie enthusiast or a male bird watcher. Redundant and segregated rather than just saying I like dem video games. For some reason putting gender in front of things has always bugged me. Meh.

The implication is, if a girl says "I'm a gamer!" they're saying "I'm a girl gamer!"

 

[IWKYB]

The implication is, if a girl says "I'm a gamer!" they're saying "I'm a girl gamer!"

Not to me. Considering we hear the latter more often my point is sadly valid.

 

[User 100115]

If you could just drop the girl moniker and call yourself a gamer...

Erm. Okay, see, when you're a gamer who happens to also be a girl, the first thing a lot of people think of is 'fake girl gamer, doing it for the attention!'

Or are you saying that in order to get by online, girls should never mention that they are girls?

 

[Pau]

Not to me. Considering we hear the latter more often my point is sadly valid.

Well, consider that your gender is also always considered the default in this situation, so someone stating their gender is a means of being sure their gender identity isn't erased.

 

[Devolution]

I don't say I'm a boy gamer. Seems stupid to me.Like I'm a male movie enthusiast or a male bird watcher. Redundant and segregated rather than just saying I like dem video games. For some reason putting gender in front of things has always bugged me. Meh.

You don't need to call yourself a boy gamer, it's automatically assumed.

 

[WorldStar]

You don't need to call yourself a boy gamer, it's automatically assumed.

Even if it wasn't automatically assumed, he wouldn't need to call himself a boy gamer.

 

[Pau]

Even if it wasn't automatically assumed, he wouldn't need to call himself a boy gamer.

I think you're missing the point as to why female gamers sometimes feel the need to identify their gender.