Leafhopper
Banned
You can get a 1070 or a 1080 instead. I lived on a 2GB GPU until last year when I got my 1070.
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Why is PC gaming still considered difficult with too much tinkering?
- Thread starter Fess
- Start date
You can get a 1070 or a 1080 instead. I lived on a 2GB GPU until last year when I got my 1070.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Again, my apologies to you two. I acted the fuckin' clown, I know you guys said it's cool but I just wanna make it clear that I can see I was being a real douchebag. Wasn't lying when I said that when I get banned, it'll be for a post in a PC thread. Shit gets me passionate. There's a lot of good discussion to be had in these threads, and a lot of shit gets thrown around, too. Just the 'shit' that gets thrown around (and I'm not talking about everyone's valid grievances, moreso misconceptions about platforms) hasn't changed much in ten years despite the reality of some of that shit being so much different now.
Toe-Knee
Member
To be fair it can be a lot of fiddling.
I was trying to get metal gear solid 2 substance running and it took about half an hour to get it running with an image rather than just sound.
At this point the characters had no faces in the codec screens which took another ten minutes to sort out. After getting this done I couldn't actually be bothered to play it.
Newer games are easier though.
I was trying to get metal gear solid 2 substance running and it took about half an hour to get it running with an image rather than just sound.
At this point the characters had no faces in the codec screens which took another ten minutes to sort out. After getting this done I couldn't actually be bothered to play it.
Newer games are easier though.
Aztechnology
Member
XX70 GPU's are always great because you're near the top of the line 20% or so less powerful than the XX80 was but for a better price. Usually because they aren't being bumped out by a 1070ti like the 1080 they keep their value better too. I just upgrade my GPU every two years or so and I usually only spend like $50-100 to do so, which really is a pretty sweet deal considering I basically stay at the cutting edge for a lot less over time.
Jest Chillin
Member
Selling the old one to fund the new one and paying the difference I assume?
Tripolygon
Banned
There's really nothing to be fair about, its almost to be expected as part of PC gaming. No matter how easier PC gaming has gotten in the advent of Geforce Experience, Raptr, Steam, Origin, GOG, console gaming is still much easier. These services do not support a ton of older and new games, they mostly focus on major releases. Just last week I was gifted Darksiders 2 on PC since 3 was just announced and I tried to play it on my gaming laptop. Everything was running fine until I increased Shadow resolution beyond High and when I restarted, the game won't run again, it keeps crashing in the loading screen. I spent 2 days uninstalling and reinstalling the freaking game but still won't work. After a bunch of googling and finding a different solution, it turns out I had to go to a folder in the AppData/Roaming/Steam/XXXXXXXX/XXXXXX to delete the file where the settings for the game is located.
This is a reasonable post
Each day more and more games start off as an install and immediately play experience without tinkering settings. Most of the barriers against that come from peripherals and displays. Another barrier is the PC a person starts with. Most want to use a machine they purchased for school work and those are grossly inadequate for PC gaming. It's only in the last year and a half mobile GPUs are 95% desktop gpus and mobile CPUs are still way behind. If they want to buy a new PC then the price of buying the right hardware will be greater than a console even if you build it yourself. If you don't want to build it yourself it's rarely cost effective with the exception being getting an exceptional deal on a second hand system.
OTOH consoles not made by Nintendo have steadily gotten worse and become too PC like with each passing year. If they keep this up more and more people will jump to PC because that is one of the driving reasons for the growth in the PC market.
hydrophilic attack
Member
I am a fucking idiot with tech. If I had a gaming computer it would be on fire within a week
phantasmic_glaive
Member
Mobile gaming is bigger than PC gaming, what is your point? Anecdotal data, is still data.. but its up to him to prove it or not.
It's tons of reasons why people can turn to consoles for their gaming. For me, while I have a pro, it doesn't make a difference to me. A shit game at 4k 90fps is still a shit game, same goes for a 30fps game.
So you're asking the average joe to not only do research for what game he/ she may like, but even more research on what gpu or CPU they may need to play whatever game. Then what controller, and so on..
I'm having a tough time, deciding on Injustice or the surge.. or do I get both? But if I get both, I'm trading something in.. Zelda or Mario Kart (don't start with me
) .. should I just wait? ....Damn, Farpoint is out tomorrow...........That's been my day so far. I rarely ever indulge myself to my hobby, but when I do it's a thing. And damn sure don't have time for the PC stuff. Yes, whatever little it may be my time is limited. PC is just not for everyone, consoles are not for everyone.
And I don't mean to sound cheesy, but all this means is gaming is healthy man. Console players need PC gamers as well and vice versa.
I'm so glad that the guys who make those lil console exclusives can get a chance to make extra money on the PC side after selling their soul for whatever deal, just to get Their company in a safe place, for now. It's a good thing we got going here.
Sorry if I got to rambling
Aztechnology
Member
Yea, definitely. I don't like to sit on computers parts indefinitely unless there's no reason to upgrade (CPU's of late, and so motherboards by association). Same thing I do with everything else, sold my PS4 prior to the Pro announcement, ended up paying $50 for that trade up too. Pays to be proactive.
This is pretty much false. Just go look at all the parts you can buy and all the different versions of those parts. Mobos, memory, processors, cases, fans, liquid cooling, video cards, sound cards, and so on. That isn't a market that is catering to people who just want a laptop. In fact, since the introduction of Gaming Laptops, that market has grown. Even with Android games that market has grown.
The reason? I am not an engineer, but I can plug things in. My desktop can be fixed in a day. I do not have the ability to fix a laptop and I don't trust anyone to do it for me. I used to be okay with paying others to fix my PC, until one time they couldn't. So I found my own solution, took me 30 minutes online and I had my answer. Mobo was fried, it was clear as day and the people whom owned a business couldn't figure it out. Went down to Microcenter, got a new mobo, and was gaming in a few hours. A big part of why I exclusively play games on PC is the control I have over it.
When the time comes that a laptop can give me the same level of control at my admittedly low skill level, then I'll be first in line to pick one up. Desktops do have their downsides, but if you want to get into PC gaming, they're still the best option. Get a laptop if you want to occasionally take a break from a console to play a couple games on PC.
Leafhopper
Banned
I am hoping to let this one last more than 3 years but that seems to be about when I get a new one at this point.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I've only been at this for two years and I've learned (for me personally) it doesn't make sense financially to buy the biggest and baddest card when the next midrange can beat it.
The other lesson I learned is to not chase the inflated launch prices when the new models arrive. I love my 1070, but seeing it going for up to $100 less in under a year was an eye opener.
To be fair, you find people in every group like this, not just PC gamers.
Toe-Knee
Member
Totally things like this can happen very easily and it's massively off putting.
Whilst i have a gaming pc I do 90% of my gaming on ps4 because I prefer the exclusives and my friends play there.
Wait desktop sales are going up?
Aztechnology
Member
For a short time I got close with my Alienware M17x way back when I was an idiot and bought it for college. I bought the base model and upgraded the CPU with an OEM CPU, and looked into better mGPU's (Ended up selling it to buy a desktop soon after for this reason). The reality was, even though I was able to switch out virtually any part (with more work than a desktop of course) the economy of scale wasn't favorable and internal mobile variants were stupidly expensive. A mobile variant of the m280 or something was like $800 and a fraction of the performance.
Thankfully now the mobile variants are nearly equivalent to their desktop counterparts, but they still cost significantly more to upgrade the parts and don't retain value well.
The laptop with external PCI-E support for desktop GPU's is something that still holds some merit, but it's a hard sell considering the pricing once again.
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
Most of the time its fairly easy to get a game running.
Then you get a game like warhammer 3 that won't run in steam for some reason. To be honest I bought on release and haven't played it yet, just didn't take the time to check forums to get it to work.
So yes tinkering can still be a thing with some games.
Video card drivers are a pain too...
Then you get a game like warhammer 3 that won't run in steam for some reason. To be honest I bought on release and haven't played it yet, just didn't take the time to check forums to get it to work.
So yes tinkering can still be a thing with some games.
Video card drivers are a pain too...
earlier on this thread I had someone reply that my Alienware Alpha R2 was 'my first mistake'. I asked him to clarify, but he didn't reply.
Does anyone else know what he was referring to, or was it someone demonstrating many of the obnoxious qualities that the worst PC gamers are known to have? The 'your rig isn't hardcore enough' crowd?
Does anyone else know what he was referring to, or was it someone demonstrating many of the obnoxious qualities that the worst PC gamers are known to have? The 'your rig isn't hardcore enough' crowd?
In what way? Because mine automatically download and all I do is click express install and it's done.
It's no different than firmware updates on consoles.
Just seems dumb being validated for being a PC gamer when I can be validated by taking some cool craft beer to share with my friends at the local watering hole. Being validated for drinking is so much better.
PC gamers don't have friends silly!
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
A year is a long time. 100$ is also not that much of a rebate... Then again I got dual 1080 so Nevermind...
Aztechnology
Member
PC based threads always devolve into a mix of both, on GAF it tends to be more that console exclusive gamers come to decry PC. Half the people that come in are there simply to state why they don't play on PC. Which as you can imagine includes some interesting reasoning. Some very valid, but a lot bred of extreme misinformation. That's generally the hangup, there's a lot of misinformation that really doesn't help anyone that's spread because of some incredibly odd sense of competition.
nextgeneration
Member
To answer OP's question, for the "average" consumer, no matter how you argue this, consoles have always been and still to this day be much more user friendly and simpler to use than pc's. I don't think anyone can argue against this.
It's great that your experience has been mostly good on pc. But I would argue that you probably don't fall into the "average" consumer segment of the population.
It's great that your experience has been mostly good on pc. But I would argue that you probably don't fall into the "average" consumer segment of the population.
except Digital Foundry threads for console versions of games NEVER turn into console war bullshit or other forms of forum fuckery. the only people who act this way are PC heads who can't get over the fact that people want a simple, strong & stable platform on which to game.
IronicSonic
Member
Well this was my experience with a F*** PSX emulator X'D.
Also I use a crappy laptop because not enough space on my apartment
If they handed out free games instead of free beer they would.
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
You must be lucky, all I can say is messing with AMD drivers and having to clear drivers and reboot 3 times because they wouldnt update properly was a real pain.
Messing with sli later on was a real mess too. No, its not as easy as just updating...
Jest Chillin
Member
If you're not uninstalling the old GPU drivers, you can run into issues. Doesn't happen all the time but it's a pretty common problem that people run into.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
I was really hoping that the SteamOS/Steam Machines initiative would take a lot of complexity out of PC Gaming but that seems to have all but stalled unfortunately.
PC desktop sales are going down.
Gaming PC desktop sales are going up.
This trend has been going on for a decade now and it's even better with PC parts which are primarily used for gaming purposes.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
I see that you never even lurked GAF before PC gaming came to be seen as something more than just 'that other niche thing' around here. Well, either that, or you're just ignorant. Or I'm ignorant and I fell for a joke post, but hey, you delivered that straight as fuck so I'll absolve myself in that event, lol.GAF has a long and easily accessed history of fuckery surrounding Digital Foundry threads.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
I know this is a joke post but I feel like PC Gaming graphic tweaks set me off a form of OCD in me really badly. I'd constantly be switching between high quality and low quality modes because I felt like playing in low quality meant I was missing out on how nice the game looked and playing in high quality meant that performance was garbage enough that I wasn't enjoying it.
Aztechnology
Member
Higher end PC hardware particularly. I believe in general pre-built sales have been dropping for a good while. Although nowadays the reasoning for that isn't nearly as good, it's pretty incredible the desktop deals you can find if you look, as good or better than building yourself deals included.
You got the R2 version of the Alpha. That is a perfectly capable machine performance wise. I've heard the UI was finicky but you would know that better than me. Some PC gamers are snobs and don't like even the best machines that came out of Valve's initiative.
Aztechnology
Member
I'm still hoping that Microsoft capitalizes on it. They could easily have a "Xbox" mode for windows 10 machines. Or on the flip side have Xbox's that have a desktop mode. They're certainly in the best position to pull something like that off.
Probably that the Alienware Alpha missed out on one of the most important features of PC gaming. Ability to upgrade. The Alienware Alpha was a underpowered machine with very little room to improve. They essentially tried to make a PC console that really was too expensive for what it provided. You could build your own small form desktop with better parts, and the ability to upgrade down the line for better value.
??
You don't even need to uninstall drivers for Nvidia cards when you swap between a 900 series and a 1000 series because guess what, it just works.
I don't use any special UI, I just launch into Windows and fire up Steam Big Picture mode. Yeah, it's probably a weird PC gamer snobbery thing.
I wish they'd roll the Nvidia Gamestream / Steam streaming concept into the Win10 / Xbox ecosystem. Let you cast anything from PC to Xbox and vice versa easily.
Parts are. Have been for a while.
Prebuilt desktops are down. I bought a prebuilt desktop back in 2007. Big mistake on my part, it was overpriced garbage, lesson learned. A decade of playing Frankenstein and there is nothing left of it, not even the cupholders.
Desktop PCs aren't things people buy a lot of. Unlike tablets, laptops, and smartphones, I can buy one desktop and keep it for decades.
Desktops had a slight boom years ago, but it died off as parts and drivers became easier to install. It may always be more complicated than consoles, but compared to 15 or 20 years ago, it's so much easier. Hell, I haven't touched the innards of my PC in almost a year, it's probably getting a bit jealous at this point
Digital Foundry threads are tamer. I don't go into a Foundry thread and as quickly find antagonizing posts as I would find in most other hardware related threads. Fuckery occurs but not the same frequency. In fact it's low enough you can easily miss it when jumping pages. The fuckery in other threads always occurs no matter what page you randomly select.
Prebuilt Gaming pcs have also been up. It's why we're seeing more and more dedicated gaming stations at big electronic chains. (well what's left of them)
Because it is?
I am not gaming on PC that much other than League of Legends or Hearthstone BUT once upon a time (a year ago) I wanted to play anno xxxx (dont know the exact game year name). So after buying it and installing it, steam told me to download and install some ubisoft launcher. I was angry but accepted the fact that I needed this. So I went on to download the ubisoft spyware program and after I finished, it wanted that I create an ubisoft account in addition to my steam account.... I started cursing about ubisoft but well, I accepted it and created an ubisoft account. So now finally I can start playing right? wrong! When trying to open the game and after logging in, the ubisoft launcher told me, that I had to have steam open while playing... funny thing was that steam was already open. After trying out some stuff and becoming furiously enraged about all this shit I somehow got it to work. I reinstalled the programs a few times, repaired my installation through steam, googled for a while until I could finally play the game I bought for like 2€ on steam.... wow
This was the moment I realized that PC gaming is still annoying as hell if the game is not a big mainstream exclusively available on PC.
I am not gaming on PC that much other than League of Legends or Hearthstone BUT once upon a time (a year ago) I wanted to play anno xxxx (dont know the exact game year name). So after buying it and installing it, steam told me to download and install some ubisoft launcher. I was angry but accepted the fact that I needed this. So I went on to download the ubisoft spyware program and after I finished, it wanted that I create an ubisoft account in addition to my steam account.... I started cursing about ubisoft but well, I accepted it and created an ubisoft account. So now finally I can start playing right? wrong! When trying to open the game and after logging in, the ubisoft launcher told me, that I had to have steam open while playing... funny thing was that steam was already open. After trying out some stuff and becoming furiously enraged about all this shit I somehow got it to work. I reinstalled the programs a few times, repaired my installation through steam, googled for a while until I could finally play the game I bought for like 2€ on steam.... wow
This was the moment I realized that PC gaming is still annoying as hell if the game is not a big mainstream exclusively available on PC.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
He's not wrong. As a PC gamer, one of the first and most important things I learned was to install new drivers for my 970 clean, every single time, because at least twice in my first month of owning my 970 I ran into issues that resulted from poor driver updates that would fuck shit up when not installed clean.
Not exactly. Its retail initiative with Steam Machines has largely failed, but the components to achieve that target couch experience have succeeded. You can easily use Windows, or a version of Linux (such as SteamOS), set Steam to automatically launch at startup in Big Picture Mode, and use just about any controller imaginable (thanks to the Steam controller API). I personally use the Steam Link to achieve just that when I occasionally want to lay down on the couch instead.
I have a gaming laptop, and I wouldn't say I need to tinker very much at all to play games on it.
However, I do have to tinker much, much more than I do on any console I ever owned.
It isn't a lot of tinkering, but I mostly play on console to avoid even the minuscule hassle it takes to play on PC.
I'm lazy though.
However, I do have to tinker much, much more than I do on any console I ever owned.
It isn't a lot of tinkering, but I mostly play on console to avoid even the minuscule hassle it takes to play on PC.
I'm lazy though.
VincentMatts
Member
Different types of people want different types of things.
The beauty of console is that you basically only need to plug it in, turn it on and thats it. It works and its simpler. Most casual gamers, this is what they want. They dont want to have to tweek settings until the game runs right and have to download stuff separately such as drivers etc. The plug and play nature of the console is one of the reasons it succeeds.
The beauty of PC is the completely opposite of everything i said above.
Most people in here from what i noticed are unable to put themselves in a casual persons shoes (or vise versa) and try to understand it from the other side. PC player want flexibility in everything and only see what they want as if this is what everyone should have, while console gamers for the mostpart dont want all those headaches.
Some people want it simpler and unified through a service like xbox live or PSN while others want flexibility. Its not difficult to understand. You are not the center of the universe. What you want isn't necessarily what everyone wants or needs.
The beauty of console is that you basically only need to plug it in, turn it on and thats it. It works and its simpler. Most casual gamers, this is what they want. They dont want to have to tweek settings until the game runs right and have to download stuff separately such as drivers etc. The plug and play nature of the console is one of the reasons it succeeds.
The beauty of PC is the completely opposite of everything i said above.
Most people in here from what i noticed are unable to put themselves in a casual persons shoes (or vise versa) and try to understand it from the other side. PC player want flexibility in everything and only see what they want as if this is what everyone should have, while console gamers for the mostpart dont want all those headaches.
Some people want it simpler and unified through a service like xbox live or PSN while others want flexibility. Its not difficult to understand. You are not the center of the universe. What you want isn't necessarily what everyone wants or needs.
Jest Chillin
Member
Technically, you don't need drivers at all. It just works regardless. That's not something I would advise doing though. lol
I used to do that but last 4 years I've only done clean installs of older versions due to drivers coming out broken.
No need to do a clean install anymore at all imo. Not that it hurts to do it. Just check the little [ ]