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Why is Xbox One doing so badly in Europe?

The start difference was $100-200. If you didn't need WLAN you actually could buy the $500 ps3 version, while the $300 360 was seriously dumped down (no HDD).
Oct 2007, 7 months after the EU start both consoles cost $400.



.
20 gb model never launched in EU. There was only the 599€ 60 gb model. Even in US the $499 20 gb model was phased out pretty much right after the launch because Sony lost too much money with it. Before the fall 2007 and launch of 40 gb model the price difference between PS3 and X360 (Pro model) was pretty much $200 globally.
 

Mael

Member
Iirc the last shipped numbers, before Sony began to obfuscate their number's by pulling PS2 and 3 together.
But even if the ps3 is ahead now, does it really lessen my point?
Both are so tightly near each other that it's obvious that Sony can be beaten.
Well yeah it's obvious, I mean look at the DS/PSP, Vita or the freaking Wii.
 

Biker19

Banned
TBH, you should ask why Xbox One is doing so well in the US. Seriously. It should get destroyed by the PS4.

That's what I'm wondering, even though it doesn't surprise me. I mean, It's inferior product in every way if you don't prefer Xbox exclusives and the worst thing is that it's not even cheaper. I guess the simple explanation is that the Xbox brand is just so strong in NA.

Question is, how long will Xbox One be big in the American regions, though (Brazil, Canada, Mexico, & US)?

I can't see Xbox One grabbing 48+ million owners in the American regions like with Xbox 360, & that took about 9 years to do.
 

thenexus6

Member
For the average Joe gamer in the UK / Europe two of the most popular games are probably Fifa and Call of Duty. Both are multi-platform and thus can be played on the cheaper PS4 (I know SKUs vary in price but in the beginning it was cheaper to get a PS4).

Plus the Xbox has always been more focused on the US market not us over here.

I don't think Americans realize just how extremely American the Xbox comes across to non-Americans. The PS4 doesn't scream Japan to me. The Xbox you may as well wrap it up in an American flag and serve it with a cheeseburger

Lol, yeah this is true.
 

ryuken-d

Member
I don't think Americans realize just how extremely American the Xbox comes across to non-Americans. The PS4 doesn't scream Japan to me. The Xbox you may as well wrap it up in an American flag and serve it with a cheeseburger

haha oh yeah. I can see that. It seems like there are many reasons why xbox is behind the curve. I picked PS4 because I was so happy with the PS3 and PS2....PS1.
 

Relativ9

Member
The spread of posts like these has me wondering if anyone has ever done any studies on how much public perception of a product's success effects their purchasing decision. It occurs to me that no one likes to be on the "losing team" so consumers who would've otherwise preferred the Xbox One might be slightly more hesitant to buy one because it's perceived as the loser of the the "war". I'm thinking this negative narrative about it's sales might at this point be doing even more damage then the issues the no used games and always online debacle.
 
If you strip the Xbox One of all it's TV functionality (which was clearly geared towards the US) then you are left with an inferior gaming experience. They are simply buying the better GAMING console. Also I think the PS4 was less expensive for a period of time which helped. (Not sure if that is the case in recent months)
 

Mael

Member
The spread of posts like these has me wondering if anyone has ever done any studies on how much public perception of a product's success effects their purchasing decision. It occurs to me that no one likes to be on the "losing team" so consumers who would've otherwise preferred the Xbox One might be slightly more hesitant to buy one because it's perceived as the loser of the the "war". I'm thinking this negative narrative about it's sales might at this point be doing even more damage then the issues the no used games and always online debacle.

You're thinking of the network effect, before internet networking became so prevalent on console, you could totally ignore who was winning or losing whatever the fuck console war was.
Now you have friends that picked something up and that will certainly play a factor since you won't be able to play with them AT ALL otherwise (since both Sony and MSFT killed offline multiplayer).
 

Kimppis

Member
Because MS has desparately cut prices and thrown in free games left and right. At the same price, the X1 would absolutely be getting destroyed, but who would have thought that within less than a year you'd be able to get an X1 for almost $200 less with some free games thrown in

$200 less? Wat!? (I'm not American.)

Question is, how long will Xbox One be big in the US though? I can't see Xbox One grabbing 48+ million owners like with Xbox 360, & that took about 9 years to do.

They certainly won't hit 48 million but I could see them selling reasonably well in NA, like 2/3rds of PS4 numbers. The point was that X1 "shouldn't" even be selling this well.
 

pastrami

Member
$200 less? Wat!? (I'm not American.)



They certainly won't hit 48 million but I could see them selling reasonably well in NA, like 2/3rds of PS4 numbers.

I may have forgotten the exact deals, but there were some really good deals last holiday. From a $500 holiday launch, to being able to get the XBox, 2 games, and a $50 GC for $330 the next holiday (I believe this was Target's BF deal).
 

Kimppis

Member
I may have forgotten the exact deals, but there were some really good deals last holiday. From a $500 holiday launch, to being able to get the XBox, 2 games, and a $50 GC for $330 the next holiday (I believe this was Target's BF deal).

Wait... it launched for $500? How did I forget that? And I even followed both launches very closely. :D (I thought it launched for $450.)

What were they smoking?
 

Bgamer90

Banned
TBH, you should ask why Xbox One is doing so well in the US. Seriously. It should get destroyed by the PS4.

That's what I'm wondering, even though it doesn't surprise me. I mean, It's inferior product in every way if you don't prefer Xbox exclusives and the worst thing is that it's not even cheaper. I guess the simple explanation is that the Xbox brand is just so strong in NA.

The system is still a big step up in power over last gen, has solid third party support (especially when it comes to games that do well in North America), and has media features that aren't on the PS4. You also have many in America who prefer to be tied into the Xbox ecosystem (Xbox Live, gamerscore/achievements, etc.).

The reason why I got the Xbox One over the PS4 was due to the Xbox One being a big step in power over my last gen systems, having solid game support, and having more games that I was interested in (games that aren't on PS4). Pretty much the same reasons why I got the PS2 even though I knew the Xbox and Gamecube were more powerful during the time. Same is (or was) true for many other Americans.

_________

MS is losing even in NA, it's strongest territory...

MS didn't get the #1 spot in America with the Xbox 360 until 2014 when its gen was pretty much done (due to the Wii). The Xbox 360 was #2 in America for pretty much all of the years that mattered last gen and it looks like that's going to be true for the Xbox One for this gen.

On top of this, the Xbox One is on track to make up a higher percentage of current gen consoles sold in North America than the Xbox 360 did for its gen (thanks to Nintendo's huge drop).

The Xbox One could have really dominated in North America (more than the Xbox 360) though if the system launched at $400 (or less) and/or was more powerful than the PS4.
 

spekkeh

Banned
A few people already mentioned the tiered release schedule, but that can't be overstated. It's really akin to Xbox One releasing in California and New England, but not the rest. Sorry folks, we're working on recognizing that silly southern drawl. Maybe next year. Honestly you're not that important. Please don't import it from across the state border, we won't support you. Kthxbai.
 

Mael

Member
A few people already mentioned the tiered release schedule, but that can't be overstated. It's really akin to Xbox One releasing in California and New England, but not the rest. Sorry folks, we're working on recognizing that silly southern drawl. Maybe next year. Honestly you're not that important. Please don't import it from across the state border, we won't support you. Kthxbai.

That would not been such a huge problem if the system wasn't readily available pretty much everywhere from day because it really wasn't that popular in the EU Tier 1 countries anyway.
 
The XBone advertised itself as an all-in-one media/gaming center.
I learnt that it can control your TV and you can pass through your cable TV to use the XBone as your cable/TV remote.
Microsoft then refused to answer any questions about how this would work in Europe, where we have many different TV services and where it would take major effort for Microsoft to integrate any sort of interactivity.
Instead they told me that they blew half a billion dollars on lettig people look up play-by-play NFL stats while wathing American football.

So I guess they'll have a similar deal with Sky/BT/[dozens of EU companies] to show stats from our football games right?
*tumbleweeds*
Oh, come on! Parlez-vous Français? Specken zie Deutch?
*mumblemumblemaybecominglatermumblelanguagesarehardmumbletier2muble*

Plus, European houses are smaller than American ones in general. Setting up Kinect 1 in a normal sized living room was a pain in the ass compared to the Wii, and it never worked well. Why should we want a Kinnect 2?

Even post-launch, MS showed complete incompetance with it's multimedia branding strategy. In the UK we have 50hz TV signals instead of 60Hz. Every modern TV manufacturer knows that they need to make their worldwide TV/Home Theatre equipment compatible with 50hz signals. Microsoft didn't even notice that USA =/= the world when designing the XBone pass-through and ended up hacking together a 'solution' that just repeated every 5th frame to give a stuttery pseudo-60hz signal. Their inability to give a shit about Europe was amazing. And this is the UK, where we have the same language.

Then there was a LOT of FUD about the kinect camera spying on us and being used for DRM and how they originally wanted to stop used games and could easily go back to there original walled-garden online-only plans. That stuff wasn't true, but I had lots of people telling me, "have you heard about this bullshit with the new XBox?"

So basically, the XBone's unique selling point flat out would not work in the EU, or maybe it would work but not until some future date.
As a result it was a question of "do you get the cheaper, more powerful console or do you pay more for a weaker one with a bunch of junk that doesn't work [yet]"

In contrast Sony's message was just, "You know how the PS3 was much better than the PS2, which was itself much better than the PS1? Well, now there's a PS4. It's a much better version of the PS3."

I think the XBone is an okay console now, and MS have done much better post-launch support than Sony have (seriously, I've paid for PS+ for a year and we don't even have friends notifications). But their first-impressions were just awful and USA-centric.

I'm currently on my phone but I'd like to say that I disagree with your assertion about the Kinect "FUD".

May 2012:
http://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-readies-nuads-they-watch-you-watching-them/

June 2012:
http://techland.time.com/2012/06/18...ven-more-in-your-face-perhaps-for-the-better/

September 2013:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...ted-with-xbox-nuads-vows-increased-investment

Eurogamer said:
Then, last year, Microsoft was forced to respond to privacy concern after it emerged that NUads uses Kinect to record and compile biometric data on users.

Microsoft denied any wrongdoing, saying at the time it did no use captured information for advertising purposes.

October 2013:
http://kotaku.com/xbox-ones-top-marketer-brags-to-advertisers-about-kine-1441807229

Kotaku said:
Mehdi, at the Association of National Advertisters' Masters of Marketing Conference, in Phoenix yesterday, said Microsoft can see whether people are paying attention to ads and evaluate how their bodies respond to them, according to a marketer who attended but asked that his name not be used in AdAge's report.

"It could have a big impact on pricing," he added. AdAge agrees: "If even a fraction of likely Xbox One users could be persuaded to share data, the technology could create the world's largest panel for measuring biometric responses to advertising."

Mehdi told the panel, according to AdAge that "it's early days, but we're starting to put that together in more of a unifying way, and hopefully at some point we can start to offer that to advertisers broadly." He called this "a holy grail in terms of how you understand the consumer in that 360 degrees of their life."


All of this was happening in the middle of the largest scandal regarding the NSA's complete disregard for the public's privacy rights.

This issue is further compounded by the fact that Microsoft is complicit in the NSA's shenanigans especially when dealing with Skype, which is a BUILT-IN FEATURE of the Xbone.

July 2013:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data

December 2013:
http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/06/skypes-suspicious-absence-from-microsofts-anti-nsa-promises/

Noticeably absent from their victory lap was any mention of Skype, the wildly popular communication service that has been a favorite target for surveillance.

“I agree that Skype’s absence here is extremely interesting and concerning,” wrote the Electronic Frontier Foundation’s Kurt Opsahl to us in an email. “Microsoft, as the owner of Skype, has totally failed to be transparent about this and it’s not surprising that users and security experts come to believe that it has something to hide.”

A spokesman for Microsoft says that the announcement does “not exclude” Skype; it just wasn’t mentioned because they didn’t feel the need to mention all products. That’s an odd excuse, given that the communication has been headline news for many NSA stories.

May 2014:
http://arstechnica.com/security/201...mmunications-prove-vital-to-nsa-surveillance/

Last year, Ars documented how Skype encryption posed little challenge to Microsoft abuse filters that scanned instant messages for potentially abusive Web links. Within hours of newly created, never-before-visited URLs being transmitted over the service, the scanners were able to pluck them out of a cryptographically protected stream and test if they were malicious. Now comes word that the National Security Agency is also able to work around Skype crypto—so much so that analysts have deemed the Microsoft-owned service "vital" to a key surveillance regimen known as PRISM.

"PRISM has a new collection capability: Skype stored communications," a previously confidential NSA memo from 2013 declared. "Skype stored communications will contain unique data which is not collected via normal real-time surveillance collection." The data includes buddy lists, credit card information, call records, user account data, and "other material" that is of value to the NSA's special source operations.

So excuse me when I say I don't trust Microsoft at all.
 
Just read 2 or 3 pages and it was surely mentioned multiple times already, but in Germany the media destroyed Microsoft for forcing us to use the spy-cam called Kinect. And I'm pretty sure that was the case in other countries, too.
 

jryi

Senior Analyst, Fanboy Drivel Research Partners LLC
The spread of posts like these has me wondering if anyone has ever done any studies on how much public perception of a product's success effects their purchasing decision.

Absolutely everything in the world has been studied, including homosexual necrophilia in the mallard duck. But this particular phenomenon is called Bandwagon Effect. (I had to google it myself, but now I'm interested enough to read more, so thanks for a good question.)
 

mike4001_

Member
If you strip the Xbox One of all it's TV functionality (which was clearly geared towards the US) then you are left with an inferior gaming experience. They are simply buying the better GAMING console. Also I think the PS4 was less expensive for a period of time which helped. (Not sure if that is the case in recent months)

Sorry but I disagree.

With all the social features of Xbox One, this is the better gaming machine for me.

I get notifications when my friends are online, I have my friends list and leaderboards directly on the dashboard.

PS4 is more graphically capable, but I don´t think its a better gaming machine.
 
Sorry but I disagree.

With all the social features of Xbox One, this is the better gaming machine for me.

I get notifications when my friends are online, I have my friends list and leaderboards directly on the dashboard.

PS4 is more graphically capable, but I don´t think its a better gaming machine.

The country of Europe disagrees!
 

vcc

Member
The spread of posts like these has me wondering if anyone has ever done any studies on how much public perception of a product's success effects their purchasing decision. It occurs to me that no one likes to be on the "losing team" so consumers who would've otherwise preferred the Xbox One might be slightly more hesitant to buy one because it's perceived as the loser of the the "war". I'm thinking this negative narrative about it's sales might at this point be doing even more damage then the issues the no used games and always online debacle.

There is also the network effect. Most people want the machine their friends are going to get so they can play each other or trade games. That is a huge boon to the 'winner' because of more of that effect. So beyond the optics; the number differential will push the network effect sales.
 

spekkeh

Banned
That would not been such a huge problem if the system wasn't readily available pretty much everywhere from day because it really wasn't that popular in the EU Tier 1 countries anyway.
I meant perception more than availability. Yes you could just go to the store and get some leftovers.


At a much higher price than the chef's piece de resistance (PS4).
 

Gamezone

Gold Member
It may not have a big impact, but the PS4 also have streaming support to the Vita, and cloud streaming. Xbox One has nothing.
 

Gamezone

Gold Member
Sorry but I disagree.

With all the social features of Xbox One, this is the better gaming machine for me.

I get notifications when my friends are online, I have my friends list and leaderboards directly on the dashboard.

PS4 is more graphically capable, but I don´t think its a better gaming machine.

Is the social features really that much better on the Xbox?
 

Occam

Member
So excuse me when I say I don't trust Microsoft at all.

Thank you for your post. It's great that some people are aware and don't forget; I am the same way. The sensible course of action after knowing what we know is to avoid Microsoft's product as much as possible.
For instance, before Microsoft purchased Skype, it used direct peer-to-peer connections. After the purchase, MS immediately set up its own servers and had all (unencrypted!) communication pass through them. That should have been a warning sign to anyone with a brain. I instantly stopped using Skype and haven't since; there are free open source software solutions that allow encrypted communication for anyone who doesn't want to be monitored. And lo and behold, my suspicions were well founded. Microsoft does indeed scan every text message you send via Skype (eg for email addresses and passwords), and they can listen in on every single chat and record it if they so desire, and the NSA has access to everything.
I'd say it's crossing into criminal negligence territory to conduct secret company talks using Skype. It is well known (and has been for decades, not just after PRISM) that American intelligence services are conducting large scale industrial espionage and are using the intel gained to give American companies a competitive advantage over foreign competitors.
That's what surveillance networks like ECHELON are really all about. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
 

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
I bought a 360 because 3rd party games generally ran better on it, I have a huge game collection for the 360 whereas I bought a PS3 much later and only have a few exclusive games for it.

Microsoft's first party output has never interested me and this time around Sony have the better performing 3rd party titles while both first party lineups are mediocre.
 

Sakujou

Banned
most people in europe simply hate the xbox brand. the 360 was cheaper, had better games, better looking games till 2011 yet people stayed away. online service was also superior though people stay away. i really dont know why. x1 had a rough start, but still people ignore the xbox brand. there are so many good exclusives, i really dont know why ms has so many problems here in europe.
people are these days talking about 360 being a success, but 360 was always struggling to go against the ps3. yeah marketing sucks a bit, but if you are a vivid gamer, who needs marketing if you get all news and reviews from mags and the internet? i dont need ads in tv, radio or in a boutique magazine.
 
The spread of posts like these has me wondering if anyone has ever done any studies on how much public perception of a product's success effects their purchasing decision. It occurs to me that no one likes to be on the "losing team" so consumers who would've otherwise preferred the Xbox One might be slightly more hesitant to buy one because it's perceived as the loser of the the "war". I'm thinking this negative narrative about it's sales might at this point be doing even more damage then the issues the no used games and always online debacle.

That's certainly the case for my brother and his friends. FIFA makes up about 90% of their gaming time. It surprised me when they started talking about XB1 being less powerful and used games not working (this was after MS reversed that policy). The biggest thing that affected their decision was that Sony was selling more... so they bought a PS4 too.
Now there is no way they'll buy a XB1. They can play FIFA, they're paying for an online sub already with PS+, and they don't want to play on the 'losing' console.
 
People on GAF don't ever seem to realize that the 360 didn't do all that well outside of the UK/Australia either. It did better, but not by as much as people here seem to think.
 

Dehnus

Member
Why should people go for the lesser option? It's really that straight forward.

The X360 did Well in Europe because it earned that success but the XB1 is a screw up.

Trolling much?

The X360 didn't do as well as the PS3 either. Just in the UK and it didn't do half bad in Northern/North western European Countries. In the rest of Europe it usually did bad, even in Germany (a typical PC gaming country) it did worse than the PS3.

It isn't because of the "lesser option" or " really that straightforward", it is because the brand isn't as strong as the Playstation brand.

On top of that many of the features are US only and thus aren't even marketed around here. But ofcourse it is more fun to just go "lesser option loool, any XbOne owners want to bite? Huh?" than to actually be constructive.

Still, I'm glad I just own a Wii U and have a PC for my "Graphic addiction" moments. Neither console is that appealing to me. That is the other thing btw, the Wii U does a lot better over here than in the USA.
 

martynzs

Neo Member
I think the main factor is the 'console war' attitude that many gamers seem to have (particularly here in the UK, where social levels and IQ's are dropping rapidly) means that the vast majority buy the 'most powerful' console - i.e PS4.

I think people are far too caught up in the whole resolution/framerate affairs, negating the fact they should buy a console based on the games and features that appeal to them.

The difference in graphics is marginal at best in the real world, and price point is no longer a factor as deals can be had on both for under £300.

I went for an XB1 purely based on FH2 and the fact my hands were so used the stick layout of the 360 controller, no other reasons! 95% of other games im interested in are cross-platform.
 

Dehnus

Member
That's certainly the case for my brother and his friends. FIFA makes up about 90% of their gaming time. It surprised me when they started talking about XB1 being less powerful and used games not working (this was after MS reversed that policy). The biggest thing that affected their decision was that Sony was selling more... so they bought a PS4 too.
Now there is no way they'll buy a XB1. They can play FIFA, they're paying for an online sub already with PS+, and they don't want to play on the 'losing' console.

It would do some people a world of good to sometimes be on the losing team and learn to just get what they like and enjoy. Seriously getting more a more happy that my parents got me SEGA Consoles rather than Nintendo (Oddly enough, they found Nintendo too commercial and violent, SEGA had games like Ecco the Dolphin and other more "Hippie Friendly games" according to them ;)).

Being the only kid with a Master System about 5 years after the system had received games for the last time, really does toughen you up though in "Screw them, I think it is fun, and that is more important". :D
 

Dehnus

Member
Thank you for your post. It's great that some people are aware and don't forget; I am the same way. The sensible course of action after knowing what we know is to avoid Microsoft's product as much as possible.
For instance, before Microsoft purchased Skype, it used direct peer-to-peer connections. After the purchase, MS immediately set up its own servers and had all (unencrypted!) communication pass through them. That should have been a warning sign to anyone with a brain. I instantly stopped using Skype and haven't since; there are free open source software solutions that allow encrypted communication for anyone who doesn't want to be monitored. And lo and behold, my suspicions were well founded. Microsoft does indeed scan every text message you send via Skype (eg for email addresses and passwords), and they can listen in on every single chat and record it if they so desire, and the NSA has access to everything.
I'd say it's crossing into criminal negligence territory to conduct secret company talks using Skype. It is well known (and has been for decades, not just after PRISM) that American intelligence services are conducting large scale industrial espionage and are using the intel gained to give American companies a competitive advantage over foreign competitors.
That's what surveillance networks like ECHELON are really all about. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

Of course Google, Apple and SONY's US Branch have nothing to do with the US law and US based intelligence agencies. That is only Microsoft ;).
 

Dehnus

Member
I'm currently on my phone but I'd like to say that I disagree with your assertion about the Kinect "FUD".

May 2012:
http://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-readies-nuads-they-watch-you-watching-them/

June 2012:
http://techland.time.com/2012/06/18...ven-more-in-your-face-perhaps-for-the-better/

September 2013:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...ted-with-xbox-nuads-vows-increased-investment



October 2013:
http://kotaku.com/xbox-ones-top-marketer-brags-to-advertisers-about-kine-1441807229




All of this was happening in the middle of the largest scandal regarding the NSA's complete disregard for the public's privacy rights.

This issue is further compounded by the fact that Microsoft is complicit in the NSA's shenanigans especially when dealing with Skype, which is a BUILT-IN FEATURE of the Xbone.

July 2013:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data

December 2013:
http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/06/skypes-suspicious-absence-from-microsofts-anti-nsa-promises/



May 2014:
http://arstechnica.com/security/201...mmunications-prove-vital-to-nsa-surveillance/



So excuse me when I say I don't trust Microsoft at all.

Yet in Europe MS fights the NSA a lot more than Google does, sorry I don't own either platform (Happy Wii U owner her), but I do like to play devils advocate. It's quite easy to find these same kind of quotes from Sony and Google... Sony even tried to install rootkits and to change the CD standards. Yes people may go "That is Sony Music not SCEE!!!" but it still is Sony's name in the articles ;).
 

Occam

Member
Thank you for your post. It's great that some people are aware and don't forget; I am the same way. The sensible course of action after knowing what we know is to avoid Microsoft's product as much as possible.
For instance, before Microsoft purchased Skype, it used direct peer-to-peer connections. After the purchase, MS immediately set up its own servers and had all (unencrypted!) communication pass through them. That should have been a warning sign to anyone with a brain. I instantly stopped using Skype and haven't since; there are free open source software solutions that allow encrypted communication for anyone who doesn't want to be monitored. And lo and behold, my suspicions were well founded. Microsoft does indeed scan every text message you send via Skype (eg for email addresses and passwords), and they can listen in on every single chat and record it if they so desire, and the NSA has access to everything.
I'd say it's crossing into criminal negligence territory to conduct secret company talks using Skype. It is well known (and has been for decades, not just after PRISM) that American intelligence services are conducting large scale industrial espionage and are using the intel gained to give American companies a competitive advantage over foreign competitors.
That's what surveillance networks like ECHELON are really all about. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

Of course Google, Apple and SONY's US Branch have nothing to do with the US law and US based intelligence agencies. That is only Microsoft ;).

I'm glad you noticed that this topic is about Microsoft; besides, tu quoque has never been a valid defense.
 
Sony even tried to install rootkits and to change the CD standards. Yes people may go "That is Sony Music not SCEE!!!" but it still is Sony's name in the articles ;).

I always considered that a Windows issue, it didn't affect CD players or other operating systems. Windows was always DRM friendly (secure audio path anyone?). Sony Music went to a DRM vendor and got a flawed DRM implementation. If you accept DRM it comes with the territory.
 

Vanmunt

Banned
I thought the latter years of the 360 were really disappointing, which is pretty much the same as the original XBox. I was playing my PS3 much more at the end of the last gen and the terrible TV, TV, always on reveal pretty much killed any enthusiasm for the XBox brand for me.


Hello from a long time reader, first post.
 
Thank you for your post. It's great that some people are aware and don't forget; I am the same way. The sensible course of action after knowing what we know is to avoid Microsoft's product as much as possible.
For instance, before Microsoft purchased Skype, it used direct peer-to-peer connections. After the purchase, MS immediately set up its own servers and had all (unencrypted!) communication pass through them. That should have been a warning sign to anyone with a brain. I instantly stopped using Skype and haven't since; there are free open source software solutions that allow encrypted communication for anyone who doesn't want to be monitored. And lo and behold, my suspicions were well founded. Microsoft does indeed scan every text message you send via Skype (eg for email addresses and passwords), and they can listen in on every single chat and record it if they so desire, and the NSA has access to everything.
I'd say it's crossing into criminal negligence territory to conduct secret company talks using Skype. It is well known (and has been for decades, not just after PRISM) that American intelligence services are conducting large scale industrial espionage and are using the intel gained to give American companies a competitive advantage over foreign competitors.
That's what surveillance networks like ECHELON are really all about. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

I hate that I can't get rid of Skype from my household mostly because my parents are too old and too tech illiterate to know of any other alternatives.

Of course Google, Apple and SONY's US Branch have nothing to do with the US law and US based intelligence agencies. That is only Microsoft ;).

US laws and agencies typically have great leeway on being able to fuck around with American companies or companies that are headquartered in the USA, simply because it gives them jurisdiction and the blank check to do so.

By contrast, US laws and agencies have to tread more carefully around foreign companies regardless of whether they have a regional hub in the USA or not because the political fallout can and will be messy. This is why the USA has yet to truly fuck over the HSBC for their money laundering shenanigans. $1.9 billion fine on a company that makes $16.2 billion profits annually and has roughly $2.6 trillion in assets.

Here's another example:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324049504578543800240266368

Wall Street Journal said:
WASHINGTON—The National Security Agency's controversial data program, which seeks to stockpile records on all calls made in the U.S., doesn't collect information directly from T-Mobile USA and Verizon Wireless, in part because of their foreign ownership ties, people familiar with the matter said.
 
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