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Why is Xbox One doing so badly in Europe?
- Thread starter Game4life
- Start date
Cyborg
Member
Uhmm but if you could choose a powerful console vs. a less powerful console for the same price, what would you choose?
And vice versa. It also shows that, so far, US has picked Sony more than MS.
The point they made stands. People behave as if 360 success shows an underlying preference for MS. This is false. The market will happily flip side and if you're keeping score so far it's 2 : 1 to Sony in US with PS1 and PS2 vs 360 in terms of winning market favour.
Right now it's close with narro lead by Sony.
Bottom line Playstation is likely the stronger latent brand with Xbox not far behind and neither side is assured victory by brand preference alone.
Depends on if that less powerful console has more games I'm interested in (e.g.: when I got a PS2 in 2001 or why I got an XB1 instead of the PS4 during the start of this current gen).
hobblygobbly
Member
The Xbox has never done well in Europe other than the UK because MS doesn't do anything to bolster it.
You just have to look at the difference of marketing/advertisement of Xbox in Europe compared to the PS4. MS doesn't care.
Playstation has always been very popular in Europe and I think MS gave up. They didn't even have it for sale in some European countries, those who couldn't get it and wanted one such as gamers in Sweden, Norway, Netherlands etc had to order it from Germany.
I can't remember seeing any Xbox One ad in Europe. The mystery code MS has to crack is actually giving a fuck about their product in Europe. Their situation in Europe is of their own creation.
You just have to look at the difference of marketing/advertisement of Xbox in Europe compared to the PS4. MS doesn't care.
Playstation has always been very popular in Europe and I think MS gave up. They didn't even have it for sale in some European countries, those who couldn't get it and wanted one such as gamers in Sweden, Norway, Netherlands etc had to order it from Germany.
I can't remember seeing any Xbox One ad in Europe. The mystery code MS has to crack is actually giving a fuck about their product in Europe. Their situation in Europe is of their own creation.
Broder Salsa
Banned
I would imagine there's a few reasons. Like that the playstation brand has always just been much stronger in many Europeans countries. It doesn't help that MS then decided to call many of those countries third tier countries or whatever and release the Xbone a long way after the release of PS4. Also the whole always online thing, still seems to be a thing some people thinks are on xbone.
The price difference is pretty huge if you order the Xbox One from Amazon.de (€304).
As for reasons, I think the negative first impressions were especially severe in Europe (NFL TV TV NFL TV; always on Kinect; tier 2 countries; €500), and while Microsoft has done a fine job turning some of these things around in the States, they have done shit-all in Europe. It seems they gave up on Europe from the start, and so Europe gave up on them.
In my group of friends, more owned 360s than PS3's, but all of them own PS4's now. There's no anti-MS or anti-America bias here; PS4 simply offered better value.
Too slow. Once the momentum's in place something like that is too little too late. German market isn't suddebnly going to ditch PS4 and switch to Xbox because they sorted out an issue like this.
THIS, the lack of support outside of USA is very poor
As a German PS4 and XB1 owner i can definitely see why the XB1 is doing bad in europe.
First there was the reveal which was a big fuck you to everyone not living in the US then the heavy focus with Kinect, i think 2 weeks or so before the Spiegel revealed that MS records all Skype conversation and hands some of them over to the NSA. Mainstream news reported that Kinect is basically a live listen in for the NSA which doesn't fare well, especially here in Germany. Then we had politicians coming out calling to ban the NSA device Xbox one.
The launch marketing was basically Kinect, CoD and Fifa which didn't really interested anyone because Fifa and CoD sell always better on Playstation.
Sonys 4theplayers marketing campaign was much more diverse and a lot better suited for european consumers and Sonys presence is a lot more visible in Germany. Example: I have to go through Hamburgs (Second largest city in Germany) largest mall on my way to work and everytime there is something new is coming out (First or Third party games with Sony marketing) Sony opens stations in the middle of the mall where you can play these games before release and the stations are always full with young people who will probably either buy a PS4 or they already own one.
Another example is that Microsoft still has no European blog, let alone a german blog which Sony both has.
Then you have the Software problem. MS library is a lot more focused on the US and UK, i bought a white SO bundle last november, played it and haven't turned my XB1 on since then. The 360 did better than the OG Xbox and it will do better than the XB1 because it atleast had multiplats going for it.
While most people don't know about AF,resolution or FPS they know that the PS4 has better hardware than the XB1, just like everyone knew most games played better on 360 than they did on PS3.
European customers like a lot of variation in their games, i guess that's why Sonys first party games do pretty good here. Sure we like our yearly CoD and Fifa but inbetween we like games like Infamous, GT or some smaller indie games like Journey. That's something that's missing for me as a XB1 owner. I feel like they did a much better job with the 360 if it comes to smaller games.
At this point MS can be lucky if they become the 2nd console for people a few years down the road (Although my friends all say they'll get a Wii U rather than a XB1 but we'll see).
Cutting out their EMEA teams was the last step to basically destroying themselves, i haven't seen a Xbox one ad since Titanfall and i probably won't see one until Halo 5.
The huge drought from now until Q3 will probably erase any chance they had at getting some decent marketshare back. As the only XB1 owner i know i'll wait until E3 and if they don't show anything decent i'll probably sell my XB1 and buy a Wii U for Zelda.
Sony said in their last Investors day that the german market will transition from PC to console this gen and guess what console will have no hands in play because they ignored the market.
And with a lot of XB1 exclusives coming to PC most people don't care about it anyway.
First there was the reveal which was a big fuck you to everyone not living in the US then the heavy focus with Kinect, i think 2 weeks or so before the Spiegel revealed that MS records all Skype conversation and hands some of them over to the NSA. Mainstream news reported that Kinect is basically a live listen in for the NSA which doesn't fare well, especially here in Germany. Then we had politicians coming out calling to ban the NSA device Xbox one.
The launch marketing was basically Kinect, CoD and Fifa which didn't really interested anyone because Fifa and CoD sell always better on Playstation.
Sonys 4theplayers marketing campaign was much more diverse and a lot better suited for european consumers and Sonys presence is a lot more visible in Germany. Example: I have to go through Hamburgs (Second largest city in Germany) largest mall on my way to work and everytime there is something new is coming out (First or Third party games with Sony marketing) Sony opens stations in the middle of the mall where you can play these games before release and the stations are always full with young people who will probably either buy a PS4 or they already own one.
Another example is that Microsoft still has no European blog, let alone a german blog which Sony both has.
Then you have the Software problem. MS library is a lot more focused on the US and UK, i bought a white SO bundle last november, played it and haven't turned my XB1 on since then. The 360 did better than the OG Xbox and it will do better than the XB1 because it atleast had multiplats going for it.
While most people don't know about AF,resolution or FPS they know that the PS4 has better hardware than the XB1, just like everyone knew most games played better on 360 than they did on PS3.
European customers like a lot of variation in their games, i guess that's why Sonys first party games do pretty good here. Sure we like our yearly CoD and Fifa but inbetween we like games like Infamous, GT or some smaller indie games like Journey. That's something that's missing for me as a XB1 owner. I feel like they did a much better job with the 360 if it comes to smaller games.
At this point MS can be lucky if they become the 2nd console for people a few years down the road (Although my friends all say they'll get a Wii U rather than a XB1 but we'll see).
Cutting out their EMEA teams was the last step to basically destroying themselves, i haven't seen a Xbox one ad since Titanfall and i probably won't see one until Halo 5.
The huge drought from now until Q3 will probably erase any chance they had at getting some decent marketshare back. As the only XB1 owner i know i'll wait until E3 and if they don't show anything decent i'll probably sell my XB1 and buy a Wii U for Zelda.
Sony said in their last Investors day that the german market will transition from PC to console this gen and guess what console will have no hands in play because they ignored the market.
And with a lot of XB1 exclusives coming to PC most people don't care about it anyway.
Haunted
Member
Most of the major reasons seem to be similar across many countries in continental Europe, I won't repeat them here.
Another one that hasn't been mentioned as often (maybe it's more key for Germany than the rest of continental Europe?) is the trust in Microsoft as a brand. The initial Kinect surveillance plans, the NSA connexions, the always-on/daily check in DRM left a hugely negative impression, even if they ended up reneging on most of it, the damage had already been done through the highly publicised initial plans. Germans have high standards about their security and privacy. We take Datenschutz really seriously. The XB1 seemed like an absolute catastrophe in that regard.
That said, the dozens of reasons which have been mentioned earlier that affect the actual console they put out also have their effect (anecdote time
I personally know 2 people who bought an XB1 because they liked the 360 so much. One is very unhappy with his decision because the console is basically sitting unused next to his new gaming PC, and the other is already looking to sell.
It's dead, Jim.
Another one that hasn't been mentioned as often (maybe it's more key for Germany than the rest of continental Europe?) is the trust in Microsoft as a brand. The initial Kinect surveillance plans, the NSA connexions, the always-on/daily check in DRM left a hugely negative impression, even if they ended up reneging on most of it, the damage had already been done through the highly publicised initial plans. Germans have high standards about their security and privacy. We take Datenschutz really seriously. The XB1 seemed like an absolute catastrophe in that regard.
That said, the dozens of reasons which have been mentioned earlier that affect the actual console they put out also have their effect (anecdote time
I personally know 2 people who bought an XB1 because they liked the 360 so much. One is very unhappy with his decision because the console is basically sitting unused next to his new gaming PC, and the other is already looking to sell. It's dead, Jim.
It's the fucking business here in the UK. Voice control and snap are killer features and probably the reason that I play my XBone more than my PS4. If I'm just chilling on a Sunday afternoon watching Chasing Classic Cars or Wheeler Dealers, it takes no effort to bark 'Xbox go to Forza 5, Xbox snap TV'. Now I'm still idly watching my programmes but I can bang in a few laps of the 'ring at the same time.
Not to mention the fact that turning everything on and off via voice never gets old.
semiconscious
Gold Member
weirdly enough, i think it's the same reason as the #1 reason in that survey asking people why they bought the console: 'brand'. the microsoft 'brand' has taken on a lot of baggage over the last few years, particularly internationally. enough that any competent competitor stands to gain...
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
I am surprised Forza doesn't do more for the console in EU.
Sanpei
Member
Most of the europeans dont care for games...Their only need is 1080p...
I am in Europe also and i have both consoles...XBO has better games than ps4...
When they solve some gui problems with win 10, i think it will do better...Like sharing
But If you only want to play games then xbo should be your choice over ps4
I am in Europe also and i have both consoles...XBO has better games than ps4...
When they solve some gui problems with win 10, i think it will do better...Like sharing
But If you only want to play games then xbo should be your choice over ps4
LukasTaves
Member
Why is TV USA centric? Do people over Europe don't watch tv, or have any HDMI capable device that they could plug in? What about the TV tuner? Some of the services, including Ms' aren't available in Europe yet, I get that, but does ps4 offers similar services in Europe?
Why? Or more importantly, in which way Ps4 is not suited to them.
They did go for ps3 even at the beginning when the console was a much lesser choice compared to 360 than xbone is in comparison to Ps4, in every single way.
Trickster
Member
They delayed the console in a lot of the countries. Microsoft also established a history of offering a much worse experience for their european costumers, since a lot of the stuff they made points of talking about at conferences like E3, were either massively delayed for the EU region, or we simply never got them at all.
Then there's the fact that the X1 is less powerful than the PS4.
Also the PS4 has more exclusive titles. Something like Halo also isn't nearly as big in EU as in the US.
the EU market really just feels like an afterthought for MS when it comes to their Xbox brand.
Then there's the fact that the X1 is less powerful than the PS4.
Also the PS4 has more exclusive titles. Something like Halo also isn't nearly as big in EU as in the US.
the EU market really just feels like an afterthought for MS when it comes to their Xbox brand.
I highly doubt that anyone but the most invested in Xbox is going to give a shit.
Say Nintendo had a worldwide launch event for their next machine and announced:
Unprecedented live straming of English Premier League, BBVA, Eredivise and Bundesliga games alongside Champions League matches through a unique tie-in with UEFA and a special UEFA app.
No need for a separate Sky box, just plug the sattelite coax straight in and away you go.
Exclusive TV series streamed straight to your box in collaboration with top producers from BBC, Canal + and Pathe, plus a content deal with NicoNico and an exclusive NicoNico app.
All the expected games stuff although slightly weaker than the competitors and accessed through a UI gimmick that's quite neat, but you'll never actually use.
Do you think the average American would perhaps feel this wasn't the machine for them?
RipperGrim
Member
I'm not too sure about the 360 but for the X1 it really felt like the rest of the world was an after thought and not a major priority, especially when they released them in tiers. People don't really appreciate it others get preference over them. The PS4 launched like everywhere in quick enough succession to satisfy the demand without making other countries feel "second class".
Then you have the X1 reveal which was again just aimed at Americans, it's like they completely forgot they were talking to the whole world (Or they were completely ignorant and at that stage I wouldn't put it past them) and it really put everyone off, I'm sure there were people who even wanted the console but knew they couldn't own it because of the DRM shit.
Then we had the kinect saga when it came to spying and people's privacy at risk, MS did a horrible job of clarifying this and I'm not too sure how many people were legit concerned about this but at the time, this kind of topic was exploding and it was just more bad new for MS
These things together (plus more probably) are big hurdles that MS brought on themselves and have to face the music for it.
Then you have the X1 reveal which was again just aimed at Americans, it's like they completely forgot they were talking to the whole world (Or they were completely ignorant and at that stage I wouldn't put it past them) and it really put everyone off, I'm sure there were people who even wanted the console but knew they couldn't own it because of the DRM shit.
Then we had the kinect saga when it came to spying and people's privacy at risk, MS did a horrible job of clarifying this and I'm not too sure how many people were legit concerned about this but at the time, this kind of topic was exploding and it was just more bad new for MS
These things together (plus more probably) are big hurdles that MS brought on themselves and have to face the music for it.
Collateral22
Member
I can't even use Kinect unless I change it to the UK locale. A good amount of countries aren't even supported for it.
This is the reason why I scratch my head at some who bring up European audiences "doing more research" and/or "not wanting to be screwed with the inferior product".
I mean, PS3 had weaker multiplats AND released a year after the Xbox 360. Yet the PS3 still did very well in European territories.
Seems like a "smart consumer that doesn't want to be screwed (haha)" would be pretty upset if a console released with worse multiplats even though it came out one year after the competition. That seems far more "inferior" to me.
All valid reasons in this thread...
Personally I think MS just doesn't try hard enough, in terms of marketing.
They thought offering FIFA 15 with the console would be a game changer?
Seriously, the Playstation brand is a major sponsor of the UEFA Champions League (aka the most famous and prestigious soccer championship in Europe) since...1997!
For a couple of years, MS sponsors the 24 Hours of Le Mans with a few Forza Motorsport banners..
In the meantime, the "Gran Turismo" series has been officially sponsoring different racing teams for many years, and Sony launched the GT Academy in 2008.
Really, in many ways it's like MS doesn't even try.
Since everyone knows it's not a lack of resources, it has to be a lack of consideration, or pure incompentence. Either way it's no mystery the Xbox brand is not popular in the EU... sadly.
Personally I think MS just doesn't try hard enough, in terms of marketing.
They thought offering FIFA 15 with the console would be a game changer?
Seriously, the Playstation brand is a major sponsor of the UEFA Champions League (aka the most famous and prestigious soccer championship in Europe) since...1997!
For a couple of years, MS sponsors the 24 Hours of Le Mans with a few Forza Motorsport banners..
In the meantime, the "Gran Turismo" series has been officially sponsoring different racing teams for many years, and Sony launched the GT Academy in 2008.
Really, in many ways it's like MS doesn't even try.
Since everyone knows it's not a lack of resources, it has to be a lack of consideration, or pure incompentence. Either way it's no mystery the Xbox brand is not popular in the EU... sadly.
Why would anyone buy a XB1 if they have a PC that can buy & play XB1 games?
migh_and_highty
Neo Member
The only thing ms have done special for Europe is fifa marketing
psn
Member
Most people just buy one console. If most people have to choose between the ps4 and the xbox one, they take the ps4 because it is more powerful and people here love the diversity in their lineup. Dont forget that Sony built the ps4 as a gaming machine in the first place whereas Microsoft built a device that is a compromise in every aspect IMO.
I dont even unterstand why the xb1 sells that good in the US. The major fuck ups and the price, the message they send... All that keeps me away from their console. I guess many people wouldnt even care if the ps4 would be 50 more.
Phil Spencer seems to be a more transparent guy, but the picture I have about the Xbox division wont change that quick...
I dont even unterstand why the xb1 sells that good in the US. The major fuck ups and the price, the message they send... All that keeps me away from their console. I guess many people wouldnt even care if the ps4 would be 50 more.
Phil Spencer seems to be a more transparent guy, but the picture I have about the Xbox division wont change that quick...
SlipperyFishes
Banned
They consider it to operate the same as the U.S. it looks like. Where states = countries.
Welfare
Member
The average American wouldn't even know about European exclusive features. Hardcore, sure, but average consumer? Nah.
In all honesty, for me, I wouldn't even say that as I much prefer the PS4 controller in everyway. Even the sticks which I know some folks don't like.
I'm thinking in a different way about this:
I don't want to buy an expensive gaming PC. And I don't want to hook up a PC to my TV. I'm a couch gamer, in opposite to many of my friends. But I'd like to play with them via cross play.
So, the cross play feature adds another way for people to play games vs./coop. In this case, it puts the most used gaming machine (PC) with the underdog (Xbox One) together. This can transform into something like a snowball... But ok...it's speculative.
disastermouse
Banned
Do they not have Netflix in Europe?
We do. But a PS3 can do that.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Not everywhere.
Wiktor
Member
Or it might be a lot simplier - Europe has much stronger PC gaming market than USA. Xbox 360 always aimed for similiar games to PC. In USA it worked because how much their pcgaming audience collapsed. In Europe where people still played a lot of their PCs Xbox 360 didn't seem all that attractive in comparision.
We do but it's no reason to buy a 400€ machine for since Netflix is on everything anyway.
Playstation is just a lot more visible. They have a community team, PS4 is shown twice in every ad break between champions league games, they do a lot of cool events (Play unreleased games, GT academy).
MS is doing nothing of the above and thinks Fifa ads will solve everything.
Am sure you remember the reveal right.
Then let's go on to the said delay for "localization" which don't happen in some of these countries.
Lack of advertising the launch of the consoles in these countries
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=890879
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=888281
HDMI stuff and 50Hz which took a while for support to be added.
Also kinect support wasn't in all those countries.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=886511
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=886514
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=929557
US talk isn't being said for no reason.
Germany didn't when the Xbox One was released.
We do but it wouldn't be a deciding factor in getting aconsole when there's many cheaper ways to watch Netflix. Plus I find other stores like the US netflix store tend to have better choices etc. It's why a lot of folks pay for unblockus and use the DNS trick to access other Netflix stores.
That's because he let everyone else at MS know about the big revelation.
Exactly. the average consumer in Europe probably doesn't care about any of the stuff the Xbone launched with either.
Huggers
Member
We do and my TV has it built in
Definitely understandable (and is part of the reason why I would go as far as saying that I think the Xbox brand can grow a bit more worldwide via Xbox on Windows 10 instead of making Xbox exclusives be tied to dedicated consoles that don't do well in territories outside of North America).
Not that many people have brought up PC gaming in here though -- at least in the case of "inferior (multiplats) vs. PS4". Would kind of go against that too considering so many multiplats (retail/digital) are on PC anyway.
Europe was always PlayStation territory besides UK and Ireland , so the adaption rate was already pretty high because of already existing accounts with friends , trophies and purchases.
European people also didn´t really have a reason to change from PS to Xbox , Microsoft had a horrible start with their concept and Sony gained a lot of momentum by doing a lot of stuff right.
And 499 vs 399
European people also didn´t really have a reason to change from PS to Xbox , Microsoft had a horrible start with their concept and Sony gained a lot of momentum by doing a lot of stuff right.
And 499 vs 399