this sounds wonderfull
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Why is Xbox One doing so badly in Europe?
- Thread starter Game4life
- Start date
this sounds wonderfull
And the German Netflixe site still doesn't have as many shows as the one from US. Including Netflix original series liek Lilyhammer, because the rights of these shows are still at other broadcasters who aquired them before Netflix became available here. Well, I can still watch that with a proxy - but would that even be possible on a XB1 or PS4?
Again, "Europe" is a whole bunch of countries. Some of them had access to Netflix when the XBone came out (e.g. UK I believe), others didn't until recently (Germany), others won't get it for a long time.
Meanwhile there's a Netflix client baked into nearly every smart device released in the last years.
Suffice it to say, the Netflix announcement was met with a resounding shrug.
LiquidSolid
Member
There are a number of major reasons, here's three:
1) Brand Loyalty. PlayStation is synonymous with videogames in a lot of countries, so those systems are what most people look to first. And aside from a rough first 2-3 years last gen, Sony's down little to turn them away.
2) The shitty last 4-5 years of the 360's life. Maybe you've forgotten but from 2009/10 on, it seemed like Microsoft stopped caring about competing and just wanted to sit back and make some profit. So they got rid of most games that weren't Halo/Gears/Fable/Forza, invested heavily into Kinect and let what little inroads they'd made outside of the US and UK dry up. This ultimately led to them having next to no momentum going into this gen, whereas Sony had been gaining momentum throughout last gen and carried on to the PS4 launch.
3) Nothing Microsoft's done this gen has given any confidence to gamers outside of the US. From the unveil, which displayed an incredible amount of ignorance, to the "Tier 2" delayed launch, right up until now. And it's not surprising, Microsoft's consoles have always been extremely US centric.
1) Brand Loyalty. PlayStation is synonymous with videogames in a lot of countries, so those systems are what most people look to first. And aside from a rough first 2-3 years last gen, Sony's down little to turn them away.
2) The shitty last 4-5 years of the 360's life. Maybe you've forgotten but from 2009/10 on, it seemed like Microsoft stopped caring about competing and just wanted to sit back and make some profit. So they got rid of most games that weren't Halo/Gears/Fable/Forza, invested heavily into Kinect and let what little inroads they'd made outside of the US and UK dry up. This ultimately led to them having next to no momentum going into this gen, whereas Sony had been gaining momentum throughout last gen and carried on to the PS4 launch.
3) Nothing Microsoft's done this gen has given any confidence to gamers outside of the US. From the unveil, which displayed an incredible amount of ignorance, to the "Tier 2" delayed launch, right up until now. And it's not surprising, Microsoft's consoles have always been extremely US centric.
Haha. The top is the reason for the bottom.
To be fair price is no longer a factor. Here in Getmany I see great deals for the Xbox One all the time. The dumping prices do seem to be more motivated by lackluster sales though. The damage to the brand has already been done. I still think the pre-launch fiasco alone was enough to ruin the consoles chances.
In what countries? In mine the closest would be Nintendo. I am fairly one and even my mother calls every console a Nintendo.
It may no longer be that big a thing but certainly historically a lot of my PC gaming friends across Europe (im in UK) saw Xbox as "poor mans PC" and looked down on brand whereas Sony and Nintendo were seen as being more separate providing console games.
No doubt there's a legacy of that "poor mans" brand lingering in some places. Sony have arguably crossed into that territory too but without the stigma it seems perhaps due to brand roots from before.
I dont even...
boyshine
Member
I can only speak for Norway, it's very different in other countries, but people here already know their next console is PS5.
If you buy a Wii U or a Xbox One you do so because there is a game you want that is exclusive to those platforms.
The rest buy PlayStation 4. It's simply the safe choice. You get all the multiplatform games (the "only" reason Xbox 360 kept selling in Europe the last years was Minecraft), most of your friends will be there. ALL casual gamers go PlayStation, even for what american gamers consider Xbox-first games like Call of Duty. It's not even a question.
Also, the fuck up by MS to not release Xbox One simultaneously across all of Europe didn't help. Stores were selling imports, it just sat in a corner as the less attractive and more expensive console that you would have to wait until its official launch before all of its magical powers (features) were revealed to you. (Kinect voice control in local languages are still not supported, Disc & Blu-ray "preferred" language options are still restricted to the "tier 1" languages)
From a european "tier 2" POV, the console never felt like it was made for us, and I doubt it ever will.
If you buy a Wii U or a Xbox One you do so because there is a game you want that is exclusive to those platforms.
The rest buy PlayStation 4. It's simply the safe choice. You get all the multiplatform games (the "only" reason Xbox 360 kept selling in Europe the last years was Minecraft), most of your friends will be there. ALL casual gamers go PlayStation, even for what american gamers consider Xbox-first games like Call of Duty. It's not even a question.
Also, the fuck up by MS to not release Xbox One simultaneously across all of Europe didn't help. Stores were selling imports, it just sat in a corner as the less attractive and more expensive console that you would have to wait until its official launch before all of its magical powers (features) were revealed to you. (Kinect voice control in local languages are still not supported, Disc & Blu-ray "preferred" language options are still restricted to the "tier 1" languages)
From a european "tier 2" POV, the console never felt like it was made for us, and I doubt it ever will.
KillerMan91
Member
I have never seen Nintendo game that was translated to finnish. Not that it matters here as most people know english well enough but this sentence is not really true at least here. Halo 4 in the other hand had full finnish translation. Of course Sony is far ahead of both with every first party title being translated.
GrizzleBoy
Banned
Look at all this great stuff!!!!
That isnt available in your region!!!!
On a console that isnt on sale in your country!!!
Only 499!!!!!!
That isnt available in your region!!!!
On a console that isnt on sale in your country!!!
Only 499!!!!!!
Yeah, the "Europeans are better consumers!" narrative in this thread is really cringeworthy.
DOWN
Banned
Losing in post count and in Europe.
Bl@de
Member
That's the biggest one. Along with Snowden and the NSA controversy it was the death sentence. The console died for everyone I know. Doesn't matter whats the situation now. Also price and performance + most people I know don't like microsoft as a brand very much. Another reason ... Everyone I know has a gaming PC. The xbox exclusives are not that appealing....
Windom Earle
Member
The Xbox One is a weak and US centric console in a giant ugly box with bad initial PR and Kinect.
That about sums it up in one sentence.
That about sums it up in one sentence.
Princess Carl
Member
Heres one example.
Meanwhile, Americans have to fight tooth and nail with a corporation to return a broken game released under false advertising.
I'm sensing a pattern.
But it is.
Most of the multimedia features advertised during the reveal were US exclusive, NFL (will NEVER gain a following outside of the US), cable, and others. Every other market was very obviously an afterthought.
ninja edit for grammar
I will poster number #458 who echos the "it's a console for the US market" sentiment.
It was a big problem by the end for the 360 and they started right out of the gates to reinforce this image with the One.
Add issues like language tied to region (that's still a thing?) and it's not a product I want, no matter the actual games.
It was a big problem by the end for the 360 and they started right out of the gates to reinforce this image with the One.
Add issues like language tied to region (that's still a thing?) and it's not a product I want, no matter the actual games.
Especially point 2 hasn't been mentioned enough.
I bought a 360 first last gen because Sony had totally fucked up and MS was really killing it with price/performace and titles. And then suddenly they decided to give a fuck and just release a few sequels to existing franchises each year. While at the same time Sony came out with all their good titles, finally good prices and tons of variety and attempts with new franchises. That's the point MS already started loosing.
Fast forward a few years, Xbone is announced with a few lackluster titles (I had really thought that MS might have saved all their resources to start with tons of awesome titles into the new generation but lol ...). The whole console debut was a disaster, US centric features, mind-boggling stupid distribution in Europe (tier 1-2), Kinect and the NSA scandal, higher price for less performance than it's competitor, things like the parity clause. Sorry, but the thing was more or less dead on arrival in Europe (excep in the UK).
If you look at deal sites here in Germany, you see that retailers forcefully try to clear any stock of the console they as it's sitting like a brick in the shelves.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
Regarding Germany it certainly didn't help that the questionable always online policy and forced Kinect the Xbone was revealed with became so notorious for possible privacy violations that even politicians got involved:
http://www.golem.de/news/xbox-one-bundestagsanfrage-wegen-ueberwachungspotenzial-1307-100125.html
Especially since that entire controversy happend while Snowden's leaks about US surveillance even reaching up to German officials was in full swing.
And yes, I know Kinect is no longer forced but that doesn't help now if the console never gained momentum in the first place.
http://www.golem.de/news/xbox-one-bundestagsanfrage-wegen-ueberwachungspotenzial-1307-100125.html
Especially since that entire controversy happend while Snowden's leaks about US surveillance even reaching up to German officials was in full swing.
And yes, I know Kinect is no longer forced but that doesn't help now if the console never gained momentum in the first place.
intheinbetween
Member
as many have already stated, Europe has been always a PS territory. MS managed to break in in the UK, and they did decen in other EU countries with 360 thanks to being cheaper than PS3, but not this time with XB1 being less powerful and more expensive than PS4, and that's it.
That doesn't state why Europeans are better consumers. That's just a pdf showing the rights the EU has. Unless I'm missing something here..
OldSkoolFool
Member
This
I had all consoles last gen but it was always xbox for friends and community and ps for exclusives. This gen I went xbox only. I think bar a few pixels the xbox is by far the better 'experience'.
Ps is great but you get a top end gaming console and that's it. With xbox it feels like you get a great gaming console, are a part of a community, there's updates and info and that's what sets it apart imo.
Uk btw
look at all those awesome TV features. And here are some other TV features. Did we mention those TV features? TV TV TV TV TV TV.
"uhm guys? you know that these won't work in europe?" BUT TV!
Edit: there is no reason to buy a lower performing machine that comes with exclusive features which aren't working
"uhm guys? you know that these won't work in europe?" BUT TV!
Edit: there is no reason to buy a lower performing machine that comes with exclusive features which aren't working
Doomshroom
Member
Why would i want a tier 2 console?
OldSkoolFool
Member
In the uk my virgin media tv integration with xbox is excellent. Not sure what you mean?
SentryDown
Member
Reasons I can see
These are the reasons for a strong launch and a good differenciation. Now that the console have a strong userbase, consumers wants to buy the same console as their friends for multiplayer & game sharing, this is one of the best reason to chose a console among a very similar competitor.
Microsoft has to go against this momentum right now and it's pretty hard and/or expensive (massive communication, buying exclusives, making more first party, lowering the system price even more, releasing a very cool accessory...)
- More PS3 in the previous generation in EU
- Better consumer loyalty on Sony side
- Princing at launch
- Better PS3 endlife (Did MS lost trust of some 360 owners ?)
- Better PR work before the actual release (I'm pretty sure there are still average consumers out there who thinks Xbox One has restrictions that were first announced)
- More japanese culture fans in EU (especially in France which is the second most manga consumer country behind Japan) matching with more japanese games on PS4
- Stronger exclusive franchises on PS4 ?
- Less media services in Europe and less appeal (e.g. Netflix is not doing that well in France since we already have good alternatives)
- Multiplats doing better on PS4
- Sony working to appeal those who missed PS3 (PS Now, remasters)
These are the reasons for a strong launch and a good differenciation. Now that the console have a strong userbase, consumers wants to buy the same console as their friends for multiplayer & game sharing, this is one of the best reason to chose a console among a very similar competitor.
Microsoft has to go against this momentum right now and it's pretty hard and/or expensive (massive communication, buying exclusives, making more first party, lowering the system price even more, releasing a very cool accessory...)
Well, they definitely have much better consumer protection laws, mostly in part because consumers demand it form their governments. That does in a way, make them better consumers, unlike us knuckleheads in the west, who just let corporations run roughshod over us.
afaik most features were working only in US / UK (maybe canada?)
most announced stuff like the NFL thing or streaming services weren't available on the mainland or are still not available
OldSkoolFool
Member
Fair enough. I can live without the nfl. Just a bonus for America afaic.
I can walk in my front room, say xbox on, xbox watch bbc 1 and BANG..... Eastenders! What's not to love?
Ol No Bones
Banned
As an owner of both I consider the Xbox better in most ways. Practically everything besides hardware is better and even then the results of that aren't as different on each as people like to think or let on. I guess I'm just an uninformed American consumer though.
The only things hurting the Xbox One are that its the weaker console while competing for pretty much the exact same type of gamer as playstation, and perception. First impressions count and the Xbox blew it. Price was a problem out of the gate as well. I think if Xbox was 400 from the start sales would be much closer.
They didn't make Xbox One with non-US markets in mind. Many TV features don't work here, noone cares about NFL and in Germany, one of the most relevant european markets, it had horrid timing. NSA scandal + all seing/hearing camera in living camera by a american company. Add in it started at a higher price and it is weaker....
It was doomed from the start.
It was doomed from the start.
geordiemp
Member
So you watch freeview and not sky HD or virgin cable (probably tech that many early adopters would have for watch when you want / instant rewind etc) ?
You watch eastenders in 60 hz with skipping or repeated frames at 60 hz from a 50 Hz source with no instant rewind / catch up ? whats not to love lol ...
Working mans TV.....You probbal don't notice sync issues as well which are impossible to ignore when changing 50 to 60 hz...
Your also one of those discerning customers that does not notice 720p / 900p as well ?
No need to go on...Bang.....its rubbish..
dr_rus
Member
- It cost more than competition.
- It doesn't really have much beyond shooters in its exclusives portfolio.
- Europe has more PC gaming than US and all MS consoles feels pointless for a PC owner.
- And XBO was geared towards US more than anything else since launch. No wonder it failed in other regions.
Just a collection of different reason. Very US centric console & games. Type of advertising (US style tends to make us cringe)
Then the elephant in the room. A deep mistrust of US corporations. Sure we buy goods of them, however, it tends to be with a certain amount of unease. In that sense, you couldn't possibly get as bad of a reveal as what the Xbone had.
They might as well of stood up that stage and said ' we are a right bunch of c****, and to prove it, here are our policies to screw you over'. Hell, at least that way they would have scored one point for honesty
Then the elephant in the room. A deep mistrust of US corporations. Sure we buy goods of them, however, it tends to be with a certain amount of unease. In that sense, you couldn't possibly get as bad of a reveal as what the Xbone had.
They might as well of stood up that stage and said ' we are a right bunch of c****, and to prove it, here are our policies to screw you over'. Hell, at least that way they would have scored one point for honesty
OldSkoolFool
Member
The kinect integration definitely let them down. Considering the kinect alone retails for over a hundred quid that means a kinectless sku could have retailed at around £329 which would have seen them bolt out of the gate at launch. Not saying they would match ps numbers but would have done better nonetheless. As soon as the kinectless sku was announced people started to get interested.
I bought on day one and now couldn't imagine it without kinect. But that's me.
foobarry81
Member
This can't be it. Some of my friends had 4 or 5 XBOX360s in a span of 6-7 years. A true testament to the loyalty of the XBOX fan.
Anyway, apart from being US centric, the main reasons for the poor performance of the console over here are probably that terrible unveiling conference of the console and the marketing debacle thereafter. And then that insane release plan in "tiers".
You have one chance to convince early adopters to pick up your console, and Microsoft blew that horribly. Release of new hardware like this should always be worldwide in one go.
SporeCrawler
Member
what about japan?
MilkyJoe
Member
I bought one about day 20 and the kinect is still in the box..
chromatic9
Member
What were the prices of 360 at launch in mainland EU?
For the UK which was largely playstation before the 360, we had the Xbox 360 at £270-280 in Dec 2005 and Sony launch the PS3 in March 2007 for £429 plus 360 had better running games.
Microsoft really tried with the 360 in Japan and Europe. I can understand MS not bothering with Japan now but they seem to get caught with their pants down in 2013 along with much misguidance internally resulting in poor messaging outside the US. 360 did pretty well in Europe and MS had something to build on but totally let it go. The EU is half the market so I find it bizarre how lax MS have been, like they have given up. They've certainly stopped the rot in the UK with pricing.
So while PS4 was always going to win with both launching at the same time, MS had something to go on and could've kept it. 360 was like 2 two steps forward and XBO 10 steps back in mainland Europe.
For the UK which was largely playstation before the 360, we had the Xbox 360 at £270-280 in Dec 2005 and Sony launch the PS3 in March 2007 for £429 plus 360 had better running games.
Microsoft really tried with the 360 in Japan and Europe. I can understand MS not bothering with Japan now but they seem to get caught with their pants down in 2013 along with much misguidance internally resulting in poor messaging outside the US. 360 did pretty well in Europe and MS had something to build on but totally let it go. The EU is half the market so I find it bizarre how lax MS have been, like they have given up. They've certainly stopped the rot in the UK with pricing.
So while PS4 was always going to win with both launching at the same time, MS had something to go on and could've kept it. 360 was like 2 two steps forward and XBO 10 steps back in mainland Europe.
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
Playstation brand is as strong as Iphone here, but without Xbox being considered as an 'Android like' alternative.
It have nothing to do with internals, design or games, since both have the same sports games.
Anything that isn't labeled Playstation is considered an exotic poormans Playstation.
Even with the worldwide Wii boom, and 600 no games PS3 launch, later outsold Wii here.
Same applies for Nintendo and handhelds or Samsung with Android cheap phones. Even when there are better alternatives.
It have nothing to do with internals, design or games, since both have the same sports games.
Anything that isn't labeled Playstation is considered an exotic poormans Playstation.
Even with the worldwide Wii boom, and 600 no games PS3 launch, later outsold Wii here.
Same applies for Nintendo and handhelds or Samsung with Android cheap phones. Even when there are better alternatives.