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[jarrod]

There's conflicting reports on the DS screens being front or backlit (I betting on front though)... could anyone who actually played one at E3 (or wherever) let us know for sure?

 

[Panajev2001a]

There's conflicting reports on the DS screens being front or backlit (I betting on front though)... could anyone who actually played one at E3 (or wherever) let us know for sure?

If the two screens were backlit, I am not sure the battery life would really be 10 hours (considering the battery), especially with WiFi on: the difference in ower consumption between a front-lit and a back-lit screen is not that small.

We are talking about two 3'' screens of not so low resolution.

GBA SP comes with a default 600 mAh battery while the deafult battery of the DS pumps out 860 mAh.

Considering that by Nintendo battery life of the GBA SP with light on (front-light, not back-light) is 10 hours, I fail to see how two back-lit screens that are bigger than GBA's one and with higher resolution (not to talk about the fact that we have WiFi and a faster ARM7 processor, 4 MB of additional RAM and a new ARM9 processor) would still manage to allow 10 hours of gameplay with a battery which is only 1.43x bigger.

 

[eso76]

You are talking about the GBA and not the GBA SP... I understand, I have a regular GBA too.

The jump from GBA to DS is even better for people that jump from the regular GBA and not the GBA SP as it is the first time you have front-lit screens.

No, no, i'm actually talking about GBA SP.
Actually i didn't think it was half bad at first, but it's hard playing outdoors (except when the screen is directly lit by the sun, in which case it looks wonderfully crisp, it also flickers a bit but nothing major) and after getting used to a middle range modern mobile it can be a bit underwhelming having to go back to gba sp lcd.

 

[Panajev2001a]

No, no, i'm actually talking about GBA SP.
Actually i didn't think it was half bad at first, but it's hard playing outdoors (except when the screen is directly lit by the sun, in which case it looks wonderfully crisp, it also flickers a bit but nothing major) and after getting used to a middle range modern mobile it can be a bit underwhelming having to go back to gba sp lcd.

You mobile phone probably has a back-lit LCD like the PSP does... we are not sure yet if the DS has front-lit screens like the GBA SP or back-lit screens like the PSP.

 

[jarrod]

If the two screens were backlit, I am not sure the battery life would really be 10 hours (considering the battery), especially with WiFi on: the difference in ower consumption between a front-lit and a back-lit screen is not that small.

We are talking about two 3'' screens of not so low resolution.

GBA SP comes with a default 600 mAh battery while the deafult battery of the DS pumps out 860 mAh.

Considering that by Nintendo battery life of the GBA SP with light on (front-light, not back-light) is 10 hours, I fail to see how two back-lit screens that are bigger than GBA's one and with higher resolution (not to talk about the fact that we have WiFi and a faster ARM7 processor, 4 MB of additional RAM and a new ARM9 processor) would still manage to allow 10 hours of gameplay with a battery which is only 1.43x bigger.

Well actually the GBA SP's average time with the light on is 10-12 hours... and the 860 mAh battery was just for the E3 demo units so far (Fishie was told from a source at Nintendo Japan the DS battery would be double the capacity of the stock GBA battery) so we really don't know for sure. Also, I'm guessing the 10 hour figure for DS Kaplan gave was likely without WiFi (Nintendo has a lower cost solution for local wireless)... again there's just too many unknown variables to be able to automatically deduct the screens are frontlit from this information.... which is why I'm asking for fisrt hand information form someone who's actually touched a DS.

 

[firex]

Whoa... what a nice comment.

Insulting other people makes you feel better about yourself ?

If saying what you really think is being a fanboy, well I guess we need more of this kind of people and less of the "truth must conform to and help our console of choice" kind of fellas.

the irony is so funny, mostly because most posts you make give me and most other people who don't prefer any console the suspicion that all those Sony products you own are controlling your mind. don't worry Pana, you're not the only insanely dedicated fanboy around here, and you aren't the dumbest one (by far). it's just funny because this is a great chicken little topic about how the world is going to end because Nintendo doesn't want to emulate a 5 and 10 year old system when those are already backwards compatible on 2 current platforms. Also, I don't know if you've ever bothered trying to play GB/GBC games on a GBA, but they're definitely not nearly as portable as GBA games. as much as I love my dragon warrior 3 GBC remake, it's not very conducive to portable play on the GBA already, and honestly I feel the same way about a lot of other GBC games.

it's hilarious, though, that people bring up very obvious flaws of the PSP and you've designed your life around them, as if it's nothing... you already said you're counting on carrying around that bigass (for a portable) battery pack because you suspect the battery life will be atrocious on the PSP... something as fundamentally wrong about a portable system as that is a-ok in your book, but not emulating a couple of ages-old systems is worth raising all this fuss? in my view this topic just keeps getting more and more insane, because as people bring up more and more reasonable arguments for no GB/GBC compatibility on DS, it's like you're just shoving your hands over your ears going "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU". as you've already explained with PS3, it has almost no choice but to be backwards compatible with PS1. DS is in the opposite boat and it's surely not just a tech reason, but also a cost reason. as miniscule as it may be (in your eyes) to add in this emulation, it's also as miniscule as it can be in terms of marketing appeal and utilization when there are three ways to play GB games on other systems, and 2 ways to play GBC games on other systems already. The other odd thing about this is you are adamant about nintendo needing to release a $30 add-on that lets you have GB/GBC compatibility on DS. why? By the time DS comes out you can probably get a gameboy player that cheaply, or just trade in a couple old games you don't want to get it that cheaply.

 

[jdforge]

Does anyone have any ideas on the following :

When playing a GBA game on the DS - What screen will be used ?
Will GBA games be able to use the inbuilt wireless functions of the Ds as opposed to the wireless adapter for the GBA SP ?

 

[Panajev2001a]

the irony is so funny, mostly because most posts you make give me and most other people who don't prefer any console the suspicion that all those Sony products you own are controlling your mind.

Must be wahy I am so positive about all next generation pieces of Hardware (I am excited by PlayStation 3 and the CELL technology, but I have never assumed the competitors would not have something exciting in store as well) and why I want a DS and I will probably end up with all three consoles next-generation.

There is a difference between liking a company and being obviously and incurably biased against all other competitors of said company.

it's hilarious, though, that people bring up very obvious flaws of the PSP and you've designed your life around them, as if it's nothing... you already said you're counting on carrying around that bigass (for a portable) battery pack because you suspect the battery life will be atrocious on the PSP... something as fundamentally wrong about a portable system as that is a-ok in your book [...]

What are this very obvious flaws for the PSP ?

You listed one, which would make it a single flaws not multiple flaws.

Second, you jump to conclusion way too early.

I do plan to carry the battery pack (which seems relatively slim and not too large) around as a just in case measure if I am in longer trips and I want to watch a nice movie without a place to recharge the PSP.

I do not see where I have said battery life would be atrocious, longer trips are more like intercontinental trips in which I would spend probably more than 10 hours between going to the airport early, waiting, travelling and wating again in another airport for the local flight and then travelling and drving from the airport to the destination (my parents' house in Italy).

For the daily trips do my university campus, you are right, I would not need it as I would recharge the PSP when I get home so that when I bring it there it is fully charged and I do not have that many hours to kill.

The other odd thing about this is you are adamant about nintendo needing to release a $30 add-on that lets you have GB/GBC compatibility on DS. why? By the time DS comes out you can probably get a gameboy player that cheaply, or just trade in a couple old games you don't want to get it that cheaply.

Explain how I can attach the GameBoy Player to the DS.

Also, a $30 add-on that offered GB/GBC playback would cost them in the order of $2-4 to make probably (if not less) and they have like $25-27 of margin to spend in marketing, shipping, etc... (exagerated figure) before not making a profit on each.

If the real successor to the GBA is GB/GBC compatible, I do realize that they might not want the DS to be an alternative in that sense, but I do not see this "GBA 2" coming out for another year and a half or so.

 

[Kintaro]

I'm sorry, but who really gives a flying shit about GB/GBC carts anymore in new systems? Sometimes, it really is time to move on.

I mean, seriously, if the PS4 is not compatable to PS1 games, are we going to see DOOMEDED posts about it? who will give a shit? Sometimes it really is best to move on.

(Probably, but everyone will be laughing at you... =)

 

[Panajev2001a]

I'm sorry, but who really gives a flying shit about GB/GBC carts anymore in new systems? Sometimes, it really is time to move on.

I mean, seriously, if the PS4 is not compatable to PS1 games, are we going to see DOOMEDED posts about it? who will give a shit? Sometimes it really is best to move on.

(Probably, but everyone will be laughing at you... =)

Sometimes backward-compatibility is your best strength: see x86 on the PC world, nothing can seem to kill it thanks to all of these years of backward-compatibility.

 

[Gattsu25]

R-Type I-II for the GBC, Metal Gear for the GBC, Dragon Warrior I-III for the GBC, and Mario Golf for the GBC got more post-GBA playtime than any GBA game, from me :\

 

[TekunoRobby]

SOOOOOO....

I'm fine if I own a GBPlayer correct? Would trading in my SP, selling, giving it as a gift be something of no consequence?

EDIT: You people see Gattsu's GBC list? That shit is GOLDEN. Proceed to your nearest video game vendor if you haven't played those games.

 

[Gattsu25]

Kintaro: What you should have said is if the PS3 doesn't support PS1 or PS2 games, because that's effectively what's being talking about here (as close as one generation) also, not everyone is like you, some people enjoy the older games more and would like to play those regularly without having to switch or bring multiple portables (me :b)

 

[jarrod]

Kintaro: What you should have said is if the PS3 doesn't support PS1 or PS2 games, because that's effectively what's being talking about here (as close as one generation)

Unfortunately the comparison doesn't fly as Nintendo's repeatedly stated DS isn't a GameBoy. GBA backwards compatability is a bonus, rather than the expected legacy of the GB line... that's the inherent flaw in all these arguments about why DS should play GB/GBC games. DS isn't a GB, it's that simple.

An adapter though does make sense but I doubt Nintendo will bother... more likely there'll be a 3rd party solution.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Unfortunately the comparison doesn't fly as Nintendo's repeatedly stated DS isn't a GameBoy. GBA backwards compatability is a bonus, rather than the expected legacy of the GB line... that's the inherent flaw in all these arguments about why DS should play GB/GBC games. DS isn't a GB, it's that simple.

An adapter though does make sense but I doubt Nintendo will bother... more likely there'll be a 3rd party solution.

I think the DS should be the GBA 2 with the GBA 3 being released in like 1.5-2 years or a bit more.

Graphics are nice and unless they want to price GBA 2 around the same price of the PSP they will not be able to release a similarly powerful portable at a lower price (not just few dollars though) very soon.

 

[dark10x]

DS isn't a GB, it's that simple.

You are right, but I found that funny for some reason. "Oh, it doesn't have the name brand...so it obviously isn't related at all".

 

[Gattsu25]

and the PS2 and XBox are not real consoles, the point is: it supports GBA games, it plays newer portable games, it has the developer backing of the next gameboy...if Nintendo doesn't feel it is the next gameboy, they are the only industry people that don't

 

[jarrod]

I think the DS should be the GBA 2 with the GBA 3 being released in like 1.5-2 years or a bit more.

Graphics are nice and unless they want to price GBA 2 around the same price of the PSP they will not be able to release a similarly powerful portable at a lower price (not just few dollars though) very soon.

I think the next GB is probably 3 years away still, though maybe sooner if DS flops (which is looking unlikely). And no doubt it'll go back to a single screen, push a PSP competitive chipset and cost about $99.

You are right, but I found that funny for some reason. "Oh, it doesn't have the name brand...so it obviously isn't related at all".

I'm not saying that (and had PSP not shown up I do think we'd be seeing that ARM7/9 chipset powering a wireless GameBoy 64 about now) but Nintendo's been pretty clear on things. Originally DS wasn't even going to be backwards compatible with GBA, that changed this year.

and the PS2 and XBox are not real consoles, the point is: it supports GBA games, it plays newer portable games, it has the developer backing of the next gameboy...if Nintendo doesn't feel it is the next gameboy, they are the only industry people that don't

And it's their product... if anyone's say would matter, shouldn't it be Nintendo's?

 

[DCharlie]

"You are the one making the ridiculous argument that "hey, it has the PlayStation name... well why doesn't it play PSOne and PlayStation 2 games ?"."

i don't think this is that ridiculous though - it IS playstation branded and it IS going to play PS2 calibur games - hell , infact PS2 games and PSP games are going to be nigh on identical. But you have to buy on both platforms!!!!

I know that this thinking is flawed and borderline retarded, but they are using the Playstation branding on the machine and i'd imagine Joe Spazz on the street might get confused.

Anyways, isn't the reason the PSP not backwards compatible with PS1 also _the same_ technical reason that the DS won't be GBC compatible?

The PSP could surely emulate the PS1
And it could definitely run the games
so the problem was the media - the CD is too big and can't be read for the PSP , whereas for the DS you have voltage problems on the old cart.

Given that you'd be carrying that damned battery pack Pana, why don't sony release a thin cd reader which would just be as annoying but would allow proper backwards compatability ?

 

[AniHawk]

I know that this thinking is flawed and borderline retarded, but they are using the Playstation branding on the machine and i'd imagine Joe Spazz on the street might get confused.

Yep. I mean, back in the day (and still now, I imagine), people would ask if PSX games could play on their PCs because they were in disc format.

 

[cvxfreak]

Yep. I mean, back in the day (and still now, I imagine), people would ask if PSX games could play on their PCs because they were in disc format.

I actually thought that the Saturn could play Genesis games because of the cartridge slot, but that was 10 years ago. I wonder how much better Saturn could have done if it had Genesis support... oh well, let's not get off topic.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Anyways, isn't the reason the PSP not backwards compatible with PS1 also _the same_ technical reason that the DS won't be GBC compatible?

Adding the I/O CPU of PlayStation 2 does not seem feasible: a slightly custom Z80 is very different from the I/O CPU of PlayStation 2.

The PSP could surely emulate the PS1

I am not sure: you lack the MDEC (which did M-JPEG decoding something I do not think the AVC decoder is designed to do), plus I do not know how fast the GTE could be emulated.

so the problem was the media - the CD is too big and can't be read for the PSP , whereas for the DS you have voltage problems on the old cart.

Given that you'd be carrying that damned battery pack Pana, why don't sony release a thin cd reader which would just be as annoying but would allow proper backwards compatability ?

I hate skipping in games and music: do you have blank UMDs I can write my PSOne games (which I have bought) on ?

 

[Panajev2001a]

I actually thought that the Saturn could play Genesis games because of the cartridge slot, but that was 10 years ago. I wonder how much better Saturn could have done if it had Genesis support... oh well, let's not get off topic.

I think the Saturn could have emulated the Genesis quite nicely: I think it would have helped the Saturn quite a bit.

 

[DCharlie]

"I am not sure: you lack the MDEC (which did M-JPEG decoding something I do not think the AVC decoder is designed to do), plus I do not know how fast the GTE could be emulated. "

Well, all i know is i can run epsxe on my crappy laptop perfectly incluing vids/sound etc.
Also given that Sony bought out one of the PSX emulator teams, i'd have thought that this would have been the sort of project that you could put that team to work on.

Skipping etc : I have a sony cd drive here and unless i use it as a frisby or put jam on the disk before i put it in the drive, then it's fine. Sony have the tech and know how to make the PSP BC in someway, but they aren't pursuing it (not that i blame them, i personally don't care about BC at this moment in time). Emulating the PS1 on the PSP would have been easy, and i'm sure some hackers may come up with ePSXe for PSP at some point.

Remember we are talking PSONE here, not PS2.

 

[Panajev2001a]

"I am not sure: you lack the MDEC (which did M-JPEG decoding something I do not think the AVC decoder is designed to do), plus I do not know how fast the GTE could be emulated. "

Well, all i know is i can run epsxe on my crappy laptop perfectly incluing vids/sound etc.
Also given that Sony bought out one of the PSX emulator teams, i'd have thought that this would have been the sort of project that you could put that team to work on.

Is your crappy laptop powered by a single issue, in-order 333 MHz CPU with a very small amount of cache and 32 MB of RAM ?

Skipping etc : I have a sony cd drive here and unless i use it as a frisby or put jam on the disk before i put it in the drive, then it's fine. Sony have the tech and know how to make the PSP BC in someway, but they aren't pursuing it (not that i blame them, i personally don't care about BC at this moment in time). Emulating the PS1 on the PSP would have been easy, and i'm sure some hackers may come up with ePSXe for PSP at some point.

Remember we are talking PSONE here, not PS2.

I do not think PSP can emulate the PSOne through software.

Also, those Sony CD drives are a tad bit more expensive than the $29.99 I was going to spend for a GB/GBC backward-compatibility accessory for the Nintendo DS.

 

[DCharlie]

"Is your crappy laptop powered by a single issue, in-order 333 MHz CPU with a very small amount of cache and 32 MB of RAM ?"

.... where is your faith in sonys software engineers!

Anyways, even if not, they should be offering us all a small hardware add on that contains the missing chipset surely?

"Also, those Sony CD drives are a tad bit more expensive than the $29.99 I was going to spend for a GB/GBC backward-compatibility accessory for the Nintendo DS.'

Actually, this drive wasn't that much more than $29.99. Regardless - the point being if sony wanted to make the PSP backwards compatible there were STILL ways they could do it - they didn't because it's a royal pain in the arse and if they had to include the chip it would make an expensive machine even more expensive (but by how much? I mean, they make tons of profit of the PS2 so surely the IO chip running the PSX costs buttons - MUCH less than $29.99 i'd suggest! ) . This is probably partially the same reason that nintendo aren't bothering to do it as well.

 

[carbonbased]

KIRBY'S PINBALL LAND, PEOPLE. KIRBY'S MOTHERFUCKIN' PINBALL LAND.

The DS will bomb if it cannot play said game upon launch.

 

[carbonbased]

Woo

 

[Panajev2001a]

"Is your crappy laptop powered by a single issue, in-order 333 MHz CPU with a very small amount of cache and 32 MB of RAM ?"

.... where is your faith in sonys software engineers!

You dodged the question .

Anyways, even if not, they should be offering us all a small hardware add on that contains the missing chipset surely?

That + no skip CD drive would be cheap ? I do not think so.

"Also, those Sony CD drives are a tad bit more expensive than the $29.99 I was going to spend for a GB/GBC backward-compatibility accessory for the Nintendo DS.'

Actually, this drive wasn't that much more than $29.99. Regardless - the point being if sony wanted to make the PSP backwards compatible there were STILL ways they could do it - they didn't because it's a royal pain in the arse and if they had to include the chip it would make an expensive machine even more expensive (but by how much? I mean, they make tons of profit of the PS2 so surely the IO chip running the PSX costs buttons - MUCH less than $29.99 i'd suggest! ) . This is probably partially the same reason that nintendo aren't bothering to do it as well.

The same reason ?

You are comparing adding a Z80 and an external GB/GBC cards adapter to enabling PSOne backward-compatibility on PSP (you proposed to go at it by software too: if you added the PSOne CPU to the PSP you would attempt something more complex than adding a Z80 and in the case of PSP you would add a chip that is not used [what would it do ? Also, would you take the extra power consumption and heat produced if you were able to give it somethign to do ?] and would waste PCB space and leak some more current) ?

In terms of complexity you are comparing apples and oranges in this case IMHO.

 

[MoxManiac]

Honestly pana, do you travel and game on the go so much that your worried that a few old ass GBC games won't work on your DS? I mean comon.

edit: Kirby's Pinball Land fucking rocks.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Honestly pana, do you travel and game on the go so much that your worried that a few old ass GBC games won't work on your DS? I mean comon.

Hey, hey people have different priorities and things they like to do: I thought it would have been more than nice to also have GB/GBC backward-compatibility on the DS as well as GBA backward-compatibility and I cannot say that I am enthusiastic about how things turned out.

Still, I will get the DS as I am sorry, but the idea of playing some N64 games on the go, with possible enhancements, is still a nice idea.

Mario 64x4, Animal Crossing DS, etc... are very good games to have on the go.

 

[DDayton]

I'd be surprised if we didn't see a DS-GB adaptor out of Hong Kong sometime after the launch, actually. I mean, there are exisiting GB emulators for the GBA, and that GBA "bridge" was made to let a GBA flash card work as a GB flash card... it shouldn't be that hard to make a weird 3rd party GB/GBC adaptor for the GBA.

 

[DCharlie]

"Hey, hey people have different priorities and things they like to do: I thought it would have been more than nice to also have GB/GBC backward-compatibility on the DS as well as GBA backward-compatibility and I cannot say that I am enthusiastic about how things turned out."

I'm not happy that i can't play PS1 games when i go on holiday and now i have to carry a PSP as well?!!?!? SONY BE DAMNED!

Again , if you are so into the GBC WHY is the PSP such a big thing for you? You are buying it for the new games - why not buy the DS for the new games????

Sorry if i sound confused, but i am - you aren't applying the same logic to both units - the DS is damned for not having GBC BC , yet the PSP is gods gift because it offers a new gaming experience. WHY are you not giving the DS the a bit of credit? it gives new games AND is backwards compatabile with a different CURRENT GEN platform. That is a huge bonus!

and yes, i'm avoiding the PS1 backwards compatability questions!

 

[Panajev2001a]

"Hey, hey people have different priorities and things they like to do: I thought it would have been more than nice to also have GB/GBC backward-compatibility on the DS as well as GBA backward-compatibility and I cannot say that I am enthusiastic about how things turned out."

I'm not happy that i can't play PS1 games when i go on holiday and now i have to carry a PSP as well?!!?!? SONY BE DAMNED!

You bitchi... ahem complaining about Sony ? lol. .

Hehe .

Again , if you are so into the GBC WHY is the PSP such a big thing for you? You are buying it for the new games - why not buy the DS for the new games????

Sorry if i sound confused, but i am - you aren't applying the same logic to both units - the DS is damned for not having GBC BC , yet the PSP is gods gift because it offers a new gaming experience. WHY are you not giving the DS the a bit of credit? it gives new games AND is backwards compatabile with a different CURRENT GEN platform. That is a huge bonus!

Saying that I would buy the DS does not sound exactly like damning it.

I see PSP playing PSOne games as a different issue compared to DS playing GB/GBC games.

Both PSP and DS have great news games and ports of older games that I am interestedin playing which is why I am excited about both of them: PSP attracts me the most given its technical superiority and its multi-media features (which are important for me).

 

[Link316]

Nintendo needs to get back the Tetris license if I can't play Tetris DX on the DS

 

[drohne]

yeah, kirby's pinball land is still my pick-up-and-play portable game of choice. it'd be nice if the ds could play gb and gbc carts, but the voltage issue seems like a perfectly legitimate excuse.

 

[jarrod]

I actually thought that the Saturn could play Genesis games because of the cartridge slot, but that was 10 years ago. I wonder how much better Saturn could have done if it had Genesis support... oh well, let's not get off topic.

Actually, Sega was planning on MD/MCD backwards compatability initially but ultimately decided against it since they'd have to basically include the entire MD/MCD chipset to get it working properly.

Similarly there were rumors that DC would be b/c with Saturn games early on (supported by the fact that SH4 could run SH2 code)... I think both Saturn & DC would've really benefitted from playing older generation games in the end (especially DC in Japan and Saturn in the US/UK)