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[Jibran#one]

U want Xbox and gamepass to fight the war, if Xbox withdraws or leaves the console market get ready to get fucked by Sony.
Not saying Sony is the bad guy here but any monopoly will be ultimately bad for consumers.
Nvidia is a great example here when amd fell behind Nvidia has set new standards of fucking us in the ass, graphics cards going as high as 1400 dollars.
There is nothing stopping Sony for charging u 1000 dollars for ps6 if there is no competition

 

[Giallo Corsa]

This is how you see it. I see xbox fans giving MS hell when they fuck up and Playstation fans trying to justify or even cheer Sony’s mistakes or anti-consumer moves. I am pretty sure truth is somewhere in between.

Holy shit at the absolute zero self awareness, like, God damn...

It's the exact opposite but... someone's gotta keep that persecution complex alive I suppose.

It's a fookin' parody at this point

 

[BbMajor7th]

Ironically, I think Microsoft's problem over the past decade has been its obsession with winning. It's been so focused on 'beating PlayStation' it's lost all sense of identity.

 

[Gaelyon]

Microsoft should be bought by some foreign corporation, like I don't know, let's say Nintendo. It will be transformative for the country.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Going to Satya for what? 70 billy? 7.5 billy? GP money?

I want receipts on what you said.

Yes, he had to ask Satya for a larger budget to go all in on gaming.

You think Don Matrick wanted to compete against PlayStation with 5 studios? Of course not. That's all the higher ups at MS would fund him for.

 

[BlackTron]

XBox operated on a budget decided on by Microsoft.

Right, and more money always = better game, so it's easy for you to tell that the budgets were low right? Nothing escapes your insight. Especially Halo Infinite

 

[Roberts]

Holy shit at the absolute zero self awareness, like, God damn...

It's the exact opposite but... someone's gotta keep that persecution complex alive I suppose.

It's a fookin' parody at this point

OK, I guess I don’t understand something. What is wrong with what I said?

 

[analog_future]

U want Xbox and gamepass to fight the war, if Xbox withdraws or leaves the console market get ready to get fucked by Sony.
Not saying Sony is the bad guy here but any monopoly will be ultimately bad for consumers.
Nvidia is a great example here when amd fell behind Nvidia has set new standards of fucking us in the ass, graphics cards going as high as 1400 dollars.
There is nothing stopping Sony for charging u 1000 dollars for ps6 if there is no competition

Xbox isn't going anywhere.

They're days away from completing the largest acquisition in the history of gaming. They're not just going to pick up and leave with that type of investment.

The very soonest we would ever see them exit the business would be if they're still floundering by the end of next generation. So we're talking like 15 years from now.

 

[SteadyEvo]

Xbox has by far the best games this generation but for some it still has no games.

They are the only ones who dare make new and interesting stuff as opposed to cookie cutter games.

As Dusk Falls is amazing. That’s a studio to acquire and develop.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Right, and more money always = better game, so it's easy for you to tell that the budgets were low right? Nothing escapes your insight. Especially Halo Infinite

No and no.

More money does not "always = better game", but generally speaking it does. There isn't a game developer alive who doesn't want more time + funding to create a better game.

The budget tells me it was low because Phil Spencer had to convince Satya that they needed way more money to succeed in the games business. Don Matrick took a gamble with the XBox One because he knew they couldn't trade blows with PlayStation back in 2012. PlayStation dwarfed them in size back then. When you're the little guy, you have to take bigger risks to compete.

 

[Banjo64]

Xbox isn't going anywhere.

They're days away from completing the largest acquisition in the history of gaming. They're not just going to pick up and leave with that type of investment.

The very soonest we would ever see them exit the business would be if they're still floundering by the end of next generation. So we're talking like 15 years from now.

80b is jack shit to M$

They’ve spent 10s of billions in the past on acquisitions only to shit-can those divisions in a couple of years time.

And if they did shit-can Xbox, they’d still hold those assets (studios and IP) to sell off (or publish on PC/PS and Nintendo do instead).

 

[Last Hearth]

Because Microsoft is not a hardware company. They make software, their entire foray into the console market is dumb business wise.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Given they've had to bail on their original model, and bet the house on untried business models and invest billions in content (when they could have made their own all along like Sony), I don't think they've learned the right lessons.

You can tell by the leaked emails. The leadership is inept.

 

[proandrad]

Microsoft needs to relax, they are going to be allowed to buy Activision. We don’t need anymore pity articles about them.

 

[BlackTron]

No and no.

More money does not "always = better game", but generally speaking it does. There isn't a game developer alive who doesn't want more time + funding to create a better game.

The budget tells me it was low because Phil Spencer had to convince Satya that they needed way more money to succeed in the games business. Don Matrick took a gamble with the XBox One because he knew they couldn't trade blows with PlayStation back in 2012. PlayStation dwarfed them in size back then. When you're the little guy, you have to take bigger risks to compete.

Just about everything here is made up but ok.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

I think the biggest Xbox problem now is quality control over their studios. It looks like they are happy with tier B games since they have gamepass and it is "free"

I really can't imagine them being happy with buying all these studios and constantly having these games with an average public / critical reception.

Halo Infinte was...well...whatever that was. Red Fall i won't even mention. You had those 2 timed-exclusive PS5 games that made no noise whatsoever.
A game like Starfield was a surefire GOTY contender like a year ago, MS's biggest 1st party game in god knows how long and it ended up at 83 on metacritic, it's currently not even inside the 20 most played games on Steam, and even Final Fantasy XVI ended up getting bigger critical reception. I won't even mention Baldur's Gate 3 that totally stole its thunder out of nowhere. Bethesda acquisition so far has done what for them exactly? Hardware didn't exactly increase for them after Starfield. All this for a few Gamepass subscriptions that may or not stay there after they finish the game? That is if they enjoyed it, cause that Steam score is far from great.

 

[analog_future]

80b is jack shit to M$

They’ve spent 10s of billions in the past on acquisitions only to shit-can those divisions in a couple of years time.

And if they did shit-can Xbox, they’d still hold those assets (studios and IP) to sell off (or publish on PC/PS and Nintendo do instead).

I think that Xbox is too important of a brand for MS to abandon any time soon. It's presence in the general consumer zeitgeist / culture is currently oddly much larger than it's actual monetary impact.

Long story short is that it would just be a really bad PR/optics move for Microsoft to kill Xbox.


The most realistic scenario in the event of an exit is Microsoft abandons Xbox hardware and goes all-in on making Game Pass available everywhere, including PC, Nintendo, and Sony platforms.

 

[graywolf323]

80b is jack shit to M$

They’ve spent 10s of billions in the past on acquisitions only to shit-can those divisions in a couple of years time.

And if they did shit-can Xbox, they’d still hold those assets (studios and IP) to sell off (or publish on PC/PS and Nintendo do instead).

I will say I doubt they shutter Xbox under the current leadership, but if things change and we see Phil and/or Satya gone? new leadership wouldn’t give a shit how much was spent (e.g. when Nadella dumped mobile despite the Nokia acquisition being pricey)

 

[GHound]

Xbox isn't going anywhere.

They're days away from completing the largest acquisition in the history of gaming. They're not just going to pick up and leave with that type of investment.

The very soonest we would ever see them exit the business would be if they're still floundering by the end of next generation. So we're talking like 15 years from now.

The Xbox brand could cease to exist the very day after closing the deal and Call of Duty, assuming no interference with the assembly line under Microsoft, would live a long and prosperous life generating billions of dollars per year for years to come.

 

[StealthGoblin]

No and no.

More money does not "always = better game", but generally speaking it does. There isn't a game developer alive who doesn't want more time + funding to create a better game.

The budget tells me it was low because Phil Spencer had to convince Satya that they needed way more money to succeed in the games business. Don Matrick took a gamble with the XBox One because he knew they couldn't trade blows with PlayStation back in 2012. PlayStation dwarfed them in size back then. When you're the little guy, you have to take bigger risks to compete.

Sony have got more value out of every $ invested than Microsoft. They grew their own studios by making better decisions and by being bold. When their back was against the wall they went all in on gaming and they built better partnerships.

Xbox have had a lot of money and they've wasted a lot of money. Daddy's had to bail them out.

 

[bender]

But Xbox has Hifi Rush, Grounded, Pentiment, Flight Simulator, Sea Of Thieves, As Dusk Falls among others on offer and they all came out in the past few years.

Part of the issue is that a lot of those games just aren't going to move the needle for console sales, sadly. I say that as someone who adores Hi-Fi Rush which is a game that is going to end up really high on my list of favorites for '23. The issue is further compounded with Microsoft fumbling the franchises that would help push console sales. And rather than fix the issues with their tentpole franchises, they've decided to buy up publishers in order to bolster the Game Pass brand. That is its' own issues of course with the largest, in my estimation, being that it teaches your userbase to not purchase games. At least that is the case for me and my friends. I've purchased a whopping two games for the system and I got my XSX the December after it launched because my One X died. I have my thoughts on the acquisitions too but that's probably a discussion for another topic. They'll have their golden geese in King and COD, but I do feel a lot (not all) of what they've amassed is well beyond their peak.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Sony have got more value out of every $ invested than Microsoft. They grew their own studios by making better decisions and by being bold. When their back was against the wall they went all in on gaming and they built better partnerships.

I don't even think this is true. XBox had a ton of bad droughts throughout the last 25 years, and except for the 360, it's always been behind PlayStation at a 1:2 rate. I think a case could be made that XBox spent their money wiser than PlayStation historically speaking. They seemed to understand multiplayer sooner than PlayStation, for example.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Xbox has by far the best games this generation but for some it still has no games.

They are the only ones who dare make new and interesting stuff as opposed to cookie cutter games.

What games? Redfall?

 

[Dane]

The fact that there are people entirely missing the point for console war points is hilarious. She's saying how the previous management from 09-13 had entirely shut off themselves from gaming and only focused on maximzing results in the shortest timeframe possible with no dialogue from the rest of the Xbox, customers and the industry.

Because they never were gonna win it.

360 came out a year before PS3, much cheaper, better 3rd party games, better online structure, had a bunch of PS central titles for the first time like Tekken, DMC, FF13. Also titles like Halo 3 and Gears were huge.

After those few years Xbox has never been the same And never will, alot of it was also PS fumbling and making huge mistakes.

Didnt help that during that time, media like Forbes, Bloomberg, Eurogamer had FUD article about PS dying every month...

A lot of the generation winners are based on how much the competition screws themselves, Xbox One was always doomed since its announcement, didn't care the kinect removal and price cut, didn't care it had better exclusives than PS4 until Bloodborne, what they did at the announcement shunned off millions of potential customers like Sony did with PS3 at 499-599 USD at E3 2006, and both companies went further into insulting them shortly after (If you don't like the Xbox one Drm buy a 360. Get Two Jobs for a PS3).

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Part of the issue is that a lot of those games just aren't going to move the needle for console sales, sadly. I say that as someone who adores Hi-Fi Rush which is a game that is going to end up really high on my list of favorites for '23. The issue is further compounded with Microsoft fumbling the franchises that would help push console sales. And rather than fix the issues with their tentpole franchises, they've decided to buy up publishers in order to bolster the Game Pass brand. That is its' own issues of course with the largest, in my estimation, being that it teaches your userbase to not purchase games. At least that is the case for me and my friends. I've purchased a whopping two games for the system and I got my XSX the December after it launched because my One X died. I have my thoughts on the acquisitions too but that's probably a discussion for another topic. They'll have their golden geese in King and COD, but I do feel a lot (not all) of what they've amassed is well beyond their peak.

I'm not debating the sales (though I do agree with you that something like Grounded won't have mass market appeal to leap to the top of the charts), what was said was that the guy thought the best, most varied selection of games is being put out by Xbox.

Obviously (to labour the point before the internet lawyers get excited) if you want to play a lot of cinematic 3rd person adventures (which seems popular) then Sony have mined that seam relentlessly for a few years and that'll likely be where a lot of people will be happy. But, if you want more variety in your exclusives, then games like Grounded, Pentiment, Flight Simulator, Sea of Thieves offer something that's not commonly available elsewhere.

I will also say that while those games might not be the ones that capture the mass market for a long time, they do capture parts of the audience for a long time. Grounded was my most played game for ages, and Sea of Thieves and Flight Sim aren't talked about much but they found an audience. If you're someone who might like those games, then there aren't a lot of alternatives, AFAIK.

That's what I took from the comment I replied to anyway. People may love God Of War and Spiderman, but it's ok to say you like something else. Pretty weird for people to immediately reach for the lols when you do, but Neogaf.gif, I guess.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Xbox was cool during the 360 era. I have stacks of Xbox 360 games that I will happily keep revisiting for years to come but the number of games from Xbone or Series consoles that I may revisit in the future can be counted on one hand. Even the Series S that I own, I only use it to play backward compatible games.

 

[bender]

I'm not debating the sales (though I do agree with you that something like Grounded won't have mass market appeal to leap to the top of the charts), what was said was that the guy thought the best, most varied selection of games is being put out by Xbox.

Obviously (to labour the point before the internet lawyers get excited) if you want to play a lot of cinematic 3rd person adventures (which seems popular) then Sony have mined that seam relentlessly for a few years and that'll likely be where a lot of people will be happy. But, if you want more variety in your exclusives, then games like Grounded, Pentiment, Flight Simulator, Sea of Thieves offer something that's not commonly available elsewhere.

I will also say that while those games might not be the ones that capture the mass market for a long time, they do capture parts of the audience for a long time. Grounded was my most played game for ages, and Sea of Thieves and Flight Sim aren't talked about much but they found an audience. If you're someone who might like those games, then there aren't a lot of alternatives, AFAIK.

That's what I took from the comment I replied to anyway. People may love God Of War and Spiderman, but it's ok to say you like something else. Pretty weird for people to immediately reach for the lols when you do, but Neogaf.gif, I guess.

Well, we are in a thread about why Microsoft "lost the war" so sales are important. I wish we could go back to the time when a title reaching a million sales was considered a success, but that's not the reality we live in. It's why I don't begrudge Sony for the path they've taken which is polishing well defined gaming concepts to the nth degree. While most of their output isn't appealing to me, it is driving their success and the fanbase seems mostly happy with it.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Well, we are in a thread about why Microsoft "lost the war" so sales are important. I wish we could go back to the time when a title reaching a million sales was considered a success, but that's not the reality we live in. It's why I don't begrudge Sony for the path they've taken which is polishing well defined gaming concepts to the nth degree. While most of their output isn't appealing to me, it is driving their success and the fanbase seems mostly happy with it.

I replied the guy's comment, didn't realise that wasn't allowed, sorry.

 

[bender]

I replied the guy's comment, didn't realise that wasn't allowed, sorry.

Allowed? We are having a conversation my dude.

 

[XXL]

I replied the guy's comment, didn't realise that wasn't allowed, sorry.

*checks username*

 

[Del_X]

Video: “Xbox fucked up last gen and they’re changing course, I hope they do well.”

GAF: “Microsoft still very very bad!”

They lost the war by not trying to create solid new IP consistently. Also, making the Xbox console irrelevant by pushing their play anywhere initiative and releasing games on PC. Lastly, they are more focused on being a service with Gamepass and devaluing their first party games by dropping them day one on the service. That only ruins any chance of those games selling en masse and recouping ample amounts of money for devs to make proper sequels. It also waters down the quality of those games and they are often sparse of content and drip fed to keep people subbed. Most of this by the way has been pushed and established under Phil Spencer.

All this is true but they’ve decided they aren’t going to compete on console sales and focus more on licenses and subscriptions. It appears to be working from a revenue perspective. At the risk of not arguing within the framework dictated by mods - isn’t that the entire point of a business?

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Not interested in who wins whatever, it’s all about the three platforms competing for your time and money.

Xbox has huge potential to do better imo . I understand the appeal of gamepass although I dislike the intense focus it now has on the brand.

They can do better and imho it will take a change in management and perhaps culture to do that.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I replied the guy's comment, didn't realise that wasn't allowed, sorry.

This is a discussion forum. Get over yourself, seriously.

 

[Klayzer]

Sony have got more value out of every $ invested than Microsoft. They grew their own studios by making better decisions and by being bold. When their back was against the wall they went all in on gaming and they built better partnerships.

Xbox have had a lot of money and they've wasted a lot of money. Daddy's had to bail them out.

It's not even an argument, of who got the most out of their studio purchases. Microsoft is paying a hell of lot more, to receive a hell of a lot less on their investments.

 

[Knightime_X]

I'd argue Phil Spencer has done even more damage to the xbox brand since the xbox one release tbh

I can't think of a single game or piece of hardware that they have released under his umbrella that's hit the ball out the park

Literally no way Xbox one was better than series x by any means of the imagination

 

[adamsapple]

 

[UltimaKilo]

Not a bad video.


Someone of you better be careful, she's giving credit and praise to Phil Spencer.

She says he’s trying to turn things around, we’ll see. It’s been questionable decision after questionable decision for MS. I do like the strategy of acquisitions, and I believe they should continue to do so to be successful, but they need to invest in creating new internal studios as well, stop with the poor product naming and output better hardware. For instance, I love the Series S and the idea behind it, but who decided that the very limited RAM was a good idea?

 

[MacReady13]

The 360 was a fantastic console (obviously RROD was awful but in terms of games- unmatched). Once they decided to release Kinect, it all went downhill and it went downhill FAST.
Then the XBONE was revealed which completely decimated them. If it had been successful, you'd have no subscription service and gaming would be better for it. Microsoft lost their way and now their game is to say that consoles aren't their main competition. Fuck them. I used to be a great supporter of everything Xbox but since the Xbone, they lost me big time. Going down the sub route to try win favor with people just hasn't worked and won't work. Sad too, because with zero competition for Sony that could be a very bad thing. 360 was great for gaming.

 

[MacReady13]

It's funny that you draw that conclusion from a video where it is stated that the arrival of P. Spencer is good and that he is the right person to try/manage to reverse those errors and loss of the original Xbox culture that have condemned Xbox these years .....

How long as he been in charge? He has really done nothing to reverse the trend of Playstation far outselling Xbox even in a year like 2023 where Sony really haven't released many major 1st party games! Just wait until next week when Spiderman 2 hits. Xbox fans thought Starfield would move consoles...!

 

[Kenpachii]

How long as he been in charge? He has really done nothing to reverse the trend of Playstation far outselling Xbox even in a year like 2023 where Sony really haven't released many major 1st party games! Just wait until next week when Spiderman 2 hits. Xbox fans thought Starfield would move consoles...!

Doubt they give a shit about xbox console sales. They give probably more about gamepass subscriptions.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

How long as he been in charge? He has really done nothing to reverse the trend of Playstation far outselling Xbox...

TIL, quintupling the size of your in house development studios is...(clears throat)..."nothing".

 

[MacReady13]

TIL, quintupling the size of your in house development studios is...(clears throat)..."nothing".

Are we talking Xbox losing the console war here? Cause they have. And even with acquiring all those studios it's done NOTHING to improve Microsoft's standing within the console gaming community (or PC gaming community to be honest).
They can buy as many companies as they want- people want to game on Playstation or Nintendo. Simple as that. Xbox have tried to get gamers back with their sub service but it isn't working. And it will never work.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Are we talking Xbox losing the console war here? Cause they have. And even with acquiring all those studios it's done NOTHING to improve Microsoft's standing within the console gaming community (or PC gaming community to be honest).
They can buy as many companies as they want- people want to game on Playstation or Nintendo. Simple as that. Xbox have tried to get gamers back with their sub service but it isn't working. And it will never work.

False. All false.

Creating the largest, most impressive suite of in house development talent in the world has been monumental. The falsity you ran into is that you thought it was going to matter for 2021 - 2023 when it was always meant to impact 2025 - 2035.

Many people here are completely ignorant of long term strategy. If it doesn't happen now, it doesn't exist. These companies don't operate like that.

 

[Crayon]

It’s actually mine. It’s my Xbox loving alter ego.

I had one. I drowned him in a bucket.

/Ass of Can Whooping impression

 

[Cyberpunkd]

They're days away from completing the largest acquisition in the history of gaming.

Here food for thought - you see Sony hurting by not doing that? Nintendo? That tiny by comparison, scrappy game company is killing it in the market with two competitors that have way more resources than they do. I don’t think “throwing money at the problem” is what works.

Xbox has no identity. Major IPs - Fable, Gears - are mishandled. Halo is dead. Cod will be available on other platforms. What is Xbox exactly except GP machine?

 

[MacReady13]

False. All false.

Creating the largest, most impressive suite of in house development talent in the world has been monumental. The falsity you ran into is that you thought it was going to matter for 2021 - 2023 when it was always meant to impact 2025 - 2035.

Many people here are completely ignorant of long term strategy. If it doesn't happen now, it doesn't exist. These companies don't operate like that.

I've been hearing this kind of shit for YEARS! It didn't hamper Microsoft during the 360 years and you know why? Cause they gave a fuck about getting the right games for their gamers on the 360. They went out and made smart deals with 3rd party devs. They had a console that was easy to develop for. they were for the gamer. Somewhere along the line (Kinect/Xbone) they lost that and decided that, if they weren't winning the console race, they will just go this sub route and try buy up all these devs to boost games on this service. Numbers haven't increased for a while on Game Pass no matter how many "quality" games they release.
We were all told "wait until Starfield". Well it's here! Have sub numbers increased? Have console sales gone through the roof? They haven't. And they won't. Console gamers don't give a fuck about this shit. They know 2 names in gaming- Playstation and Nintendo. And do you know why? Cause both of those companies are consistent in what they do, which is deliver quality content to their customers.

 

[StueyDuck]

They just bought the worlds largest publisher for 70billion dollars.

No one has lost any war. Sony are just doing better

 

[Kenneth Haight]

360 was my first console in the “HD” era, I can remember playing COD3 on it and being absolutely blown away at the time. Gears of War, Viva piñata (I loved it!) BIOSHOCK! It was a great console, even though I had 3 of them due to the RROD. The momentum has been well and truly lost,

I have zero reason to be purchasing a Series X or a gamepass sub, they are so unattractive to me as a brand now, for one primary reason. The majority of their first party games are so unbelievably mediocre.

 

[March Climber]

We need a GAF Xbox bingo card on 'What to blame for any Xbox failure'

So far for spots I have:

Phil Spencer
Don Mattrick (10 years ago)
Bethesda
Lack of Japanese audience/support
Diversity Hires
Acquisitions
Gamepass

What else can we add?

 

[RickMasters]

Microsoft is its own worst enemy.

This.