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[Eagle316]

Actually, I wasn't that interested in Wii until just recently. I have an Xbox 360 and I play on HD, but the idea of Wii is just cool. I am a solid Wii60, but I am looking forward to Zelda more than I am looking forward to Gears of War.

Wii appeals to me through its games and experience. It looks entertaining and that's why I play games.

 

[Xdrive05]

The Wiimote + nunchuk setup is, for the most part, perfectly capable of being used as a regular controller. It obviously foregoes the need for dual analog...but that is supposed to be improvement as opposed to a limitation.

But that also means change in an industry with consumers that tend to NOT want to have to adapt in the way you described. Sure, the "Wiimote + nunchuk is capable of being used as a regular controller", but then what the hell is the point? Gamer Joe doesn't want to have to adapt to a new controller just to replace what he was doing before for years. That's going to be Nintendo's first hurdle in the market.

When Joe demos Twilight Princess on the Wii, he is going to wonder why he has to waggle for Link to swing his sword when he used to make it happen by pressing his thumb down gently. And where are those pixel shaders he's come to love since Halo five years ago? And man, that PS3 down the isle looks really nice on that HDtv. And his Xbox360 can actually take advantage of his new TV, unlike the Wii. These are the kind of things Nintendo are up against with the "normal" market. They're going to have to Nintendog and Brain Train the hell out of this to expand the market beyond Joe and be as successful.

But to be fair Nintendo isn't really going after hardcore gamers, let alone gamers like Joe.

 

[TheGreatDave]

For me, a beautiful game isn't an interesting one by default. I don't look at Final Fantasy XIII or Lost Planet and suddenly not see Twilight Princess as being beautiful. Maybe if I had a HDTV, it'd matter to me. As it is, I'm just as impressed by Mario Galaxy, which looks exactly as it should, as I am with Lost Planet, which looks amazing.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

Meh, I like nintendo games and hate RPGs and metal gear solid. I might cave in eventually to buy one of the other systems if there are some good racers or fighters

 

[Bebpo]

I'm all about PS360.

Nintendo needs to work on their "push" atm to get the hardcore gamers to join the PSWII60 club. PS3 & X360 are showing they have games that spread across the genre and draw in the gamer audience. Nintendo doesn't really seem to have a focus when it comes to games. It's more like "look what you can do with the controller!" then "this game looks awesome!"

Spoiler

I'll still get a Wii. But with region-lock I'll wait until I can import a JPN one for standard price with no markups.

 

[Ryu]

The Wiimote + nunchuk setup is, for the most part, perfectly capable of being used as a regular controller. It obviously foregoes the need for dual analog...but that is supposed to be improvement as opposed to a limitation.

That really depends. What do you have going for your game when you develop for graphical hardware that is more or less last generation and ignore the one thing that sets the console you're developing for apart from the crowd? You definitely won't be seeing the huge third party franchise sequels aiming for that particular market - it'd be like shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[goldenpp72]

Odd, I was thinking the same thing. I was (kind of still am) anti ps3, but as of late ive found myself more gravitated towards it then a wii. The wii started strong and became weak, and the ps3 started weak but is getting strong.

 

[snatches]

480p games look perfectly fine on HD.

I played my GC for a year on a huuuge HDtv a few years ago when I was in college and I had no problem with the "ugly graphics".

It looked fine on my 30" tube HDTV

It looks ass on my 56" dlp.

To the OP, if there are games on the Wii you want to play, get it. If not, don't. It's as simple as that. I personally think games like MP3, Zelda, and SMG look beautiful, even if they are not next-gen. But more importantly, they look just plain fun. Your mileage may vary.

Yes, those are the three games that make me want a Wii. I question how much the Wii controller will benefit those three games in particular. And $250 for a console that plays three gamecube games. If is was $150, I would bite. As it is now, my minds changed. I'll wait.

 

[jdforge]

What this and almost every other thread on gaming forums at the minute is trying to say is....

There is a new generation coming - What camp do I belong to?

Gamers have always had to have a favourite, it's an unwritten, unspoken truth for some, like the mother who loves all her childrem but even though she tried to fight it and hide it, there was always one, who got better presents, or more hugs and kisses.

Other people shout it from the rook tops, and let everyone know what camp they're a member and what said camp can do for them.

People want different things out of life, some want a family, others want to shag till they are dependant on viagra to just get them out of bed in the morning. Just accept that people want different things, and just let each other get on with our agendas (some would argue they have no agenda - But everyone has an agenda).

In terms of gaming, its all taken too seriously... and ultimately...

it's all a load of crap really - and a need to identify oneself with a piece of plastic.



Anyway - I doubt Nintendo will ever cater for the "non-gamer" no more than Sony will only cater for the hardcore and neglect the "non-gamer" market.

Is the phrase Mario whoring obsolete these days? I mean you guys do realise that Nintendo have the most recognisable and distinguised, characters and franchises around? Ofcourse Nintendo will still pump out the big guns.

Wii has Zelda at launch and no gamer can ignore that fact, or refute it as being an absolute killer launch game.

 

[Logan Cano]

So are controls yet no one seems to mind that they haven't changed a lick in 10 years. Controls are eve more intrinsic than visuals seeing as how it's interaction that seperates games from movies, not visuals. Games will always be a huge step behind CG movies in terms of visuals.

You are exagerating. Besides, the standard controller has changed. N64 and PSOne introduced rumble and dual analogs. This gen triggers were incorporated and analog buttons. Next gen introduces wireless and motion recognition in PS3.

You know what's the problem with Wii?? It's that the user interface is easy to change! Just hook up a peripheral and voila! New kinds of games. Dance mat, eyetoy, Guncon 2, Logitech Wheel, etc, etc. The remote is an artificial innovation, and the machine is a disaster, given what they spent in R&D. They could have produced a cheap machine, few times more powerfull than Xbox and still include their "innovation".

But they didn't, they went with the extremely cheapest solution and hope they can charge as much as they can. I can't say I blame them, Nintendo fans are very religious and will buy anything. But for more...let's say concious gamers, this is a ripoff.

 

[Oblivion]

For me, a beautiful game isn't an interesting one by default. I don't look at Final Fantasy XIII or Lost Planet and suddenly not see Twilight Princess as being beautiful. Maybe if I had a HDTV, it'd matter to me. As it is, I'm just as impressed by Mario Galaxy, which looks exactly as it should, as I am with Lost Planet, which looks amazing.

Yes, as am I. Except the thing is, Mario Galaxy and the next Zelda are definitely not ugly by any means, but they could look far better with better tech.

 

[Y2Kev]

It looked fine on my 30" tube HDTV

It looks ass on my 56" dlp.

It will look like ass on most fixed-pixel displays. Maybe not ass, but not satisfactory and certainly not up to what the other consoles will do as far as IQ goes.

Interesting points you bring up, Mr. snatches.

 

[He Wants Chalupas]

Haven't we already had this discussion in a million other threads already?

 

[snatches]

When Joe demos Twilight Princess on the Wii, he is going to wonder why he has to waggle for Link to swing his sword when he used to make it happen by pressing his thumb down gently. And where are those pixel shaders he's come to love since Halo five years ago? And man, that PS3 down the isle looks really nice on that HDtv. And his Xbox360 can actually take advantage of his new TV, unlike the Wii. These are the kind of things Nintendo are up against with the "normal" market. They're going to have to Nintendog and Brain Train the hell out of this to expand the market beyond Joe and be as successful.

Well put. And for those that say the wiimote can duplicate a standard controller, I have had my doubts about substituting a motion sensor for a free look camera mapped to an analog stick.

In a 3d game, I can freely move a camera 360 degrees with a tilt of my thumb. My hand doesn't move 360. I have this damn thing called a wrist which limits my movement.

****ing wrists.

 

[M74]

A "hardcore gamer" not being able to handle lesser quality visuals? Does not compute.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Mifune]

If the Wii gets games as beautiful as Okami, then it can be underpowered as long as it wants to be.

But given what's been shown so far, it feels like devs are just coming to grips with the hardware, which is ridiculous. Out of the gate the Wii should have games that look as good technically as say, RE4. And by and large it doesn't.

But whatever, I know I'll cave when Mario comes out. And you probably will too.

 

[hyp]

GAF in the last 48 hours has been the holy grail of gaming hilarity. i can't help but love these type of threads. it brings out the lurking fanboys and trolls. thanks for the mental bookmarks guys.

to that, PSWii60 all the way baby. hell yea. though i agree with snatches that it's an eyesore to see SD 480i/p on an HD set once you've experienced the 360. in fact, i had to move all my last gen consoles to my tube set so that i could have the illusion that they looked better as opposed to the grainy, blurry mess that is PS2/XB/GC on an LCD tv. (see some of my previous posts where i whine about no HD on the wii)

but i do feel that the wii will give us some great/fun experiences despite its last gen graphics. and i'm looking forward to the many days of wand waggling.

 

[TheGreatDave]

Yes, as am I. Except the thing is, Mario Galaxy and the next Zelda are definitely not ugly by any means, but they could look far better with better tech.

True. But I don't really care. I'd rather Wii has PS3 and 360 graphics, but then I'd rather pay $250 than $500.

Of course, it may all be different when I've played many 360 and PS3 games. But based on a small amount of time with 360, I don't feel bad when playing current gen at the minute.

 

[Campster]

I don't like that the system wasn't designed with me in mind. In fact, it kind of pisses me off. Without me and people like me, Nintendo would still be a trading card company annoying Japanese parents.

The sense of entitlement here, combined with the Dwight avatar, produces unbelievable hilarity.

 

[MrSardonic]

my decision will be made based on:

- what i am willing to spend on a videogames machine that will get a few hours a month play time

- what the actual experiences of each machine end up delivering

so it will be an exercise in post-launch play testing to see what fits my gaming needs best. alternatively, all home consoles might be overlooked in favour of DSL. I just can't jump on the GAF bandwagon of making sweeping judgements about hardware/software without playing the games - wetting your pants over a trailer or wiimote theory is just taking the path to disappointment

 

[jetsetmario]

hey guys, so the other day i was thinking about how lame that Schindler's List movie is. I mean it's all black and white and stuff. Thinking about this made me mad. Than I was happy because I thought of my favorite movie Armageddon. I mean that whole movie was bitchin'. I swear I thought I was right there on the asteroid with Bruce Willis. They should remake Schindler's list, but in color, and with bullet time, and a CG Nazi army. Hell's yea.

 

[snatches]

Haven't we already had this discussion in a million other threads already?

I haven't seen a "I used to love the Wii concept and now I'm not so sure" thread.

So no.

 

[Amir0x]

hey guys, so the other day i was thinking about how lame that Schindler's List movie is. I mean it's all black and white and stuff. Thinking about this made me mad. Than I was happy because I thought of my favorite movie Armageddon. I mean that whole movie was bitchin'. I swear I thought I was right there on the asteroid with Bruce Willis. They should remake Schindler's list, but in color, and with bullet time, and a CG Nazi army. Hell's yea.

And next up in the world of shitty analogies...

 

[Wink]

I recently played Deus Ex on PS2 and now I'm playing Ocarina of Time and honestly, those games look like shit. Really really bad. Does it stop me from having fun? No way.

I had "720p" for YEARS as a PC gamer. Made it my heart bleed to start console gaming on a 21" CRT TV? No, it is great.

I made a decision. I'm happy that every console offers different things, that every console has their exclusives, that's the way it should be. Everyone can pick its favourite, I will favor all three. PSWii60 is the way to go.

 

[Y2Kev]

And next up in the world of shitty analogies...

Black and white is not at all analogous to shitty graphics.

 

[snatches]

I was thinking the same thing.

I can handle low quality visuals. I just don't want to.

We are talking luxury items purchased for entertainment purposes. They should satisfy my wants as much as my needs.

I'm on an italics rampage.

 

[Busaiku]

For me personally it doesn't matter.
Wii graphics outright suck.
But when I'm playing a game, after 10 minutes it looks like any other game to me (with different characters and actions).

 

[Amir0x]

Black and white is not at all analogous to shitty graphics.

:thumbsup:

 

[etiolate]

Are you people dumb enough to buy that "it's not for you" hyperbole? I guess there's no Mario, Metroid, Zelda, Red Steel, Fire Emblem or Resident Evil to come? Just because there is a Wii Sports, it does not mean there is no Zelda.

 

[MadraptorMan]

But that also means change in an industry with consumers that tend to NOT want to have to adapt in the way you described. Sure, the "Wiimote + nunchuk is capable of being used as a regular controller", but then what the hell is the point? Gamer Joe doesn't want to have to adapt to a new controller just to replace what he was doing before for years. That's going to be Nintendo's first hurdle in the market.

When Joe demos Twilight Princess on the Wii, he is going to wonder why he has to waggle for Link to swing his sword when he used to make it happen by pressing his thumb down gently. And where are those pixel shaders he's come to love since Halo five years ago? And man, that PS3 down the isle looks really nice on that HDtv. And his Xbox360 can actually take advantage of his new TV, unlike the Wii. These are the kind of things Nintendo are up against with the "normal" market. They're going to have to Nintendog and Brain Train the hell out of this to expand the market beyond Joe and be as successful.

But to be fair Nintendo isn't really going after hardcore gamers, let alone gamers like Joe.

I was simply addressing the idea that the DS, while capable of using a new control scheme, can still support the old control schemes as well.

And, I don't know about Joe, but I really won't be missing any pixel shading when I play Twilight Princess this November, and I would think that I would actually be more picky about graphics than the average casual gamer who doesn't know any better to begin with, and those casuals make up the bulk of the market. My Wii will make use of my new HDTV, as it is the first TV I have ever owned that can display in progressive scan mode! My most played game on 360 since I bought the thing has been Ninja Gaiden, and I really haven't had any issue with 480p. Wii games that DON'T support 480p will definitely look worse, though.

 

[jarosh]

What this and almost every other thread on gaming forums at the minute is trying to say is....

There is a new generation coming - What camp do I belong to?

no, that's not even remotely what this thread is about. NOT EVEN REMOTELY.

 

[ivysaur12]

You are exagerating. Besides, the standard controller has changed. N64 and PSOne introduced rumble and dual analogs. This gen triggers were incorporated and analog buttons. Next gen introduces wireless and motion recognition in PS3.

You know what's the problem with Wii?? It's that the user interface is easy to change! Just hook up a peripheral and voila! New kinds of games. Dance mat, eyetoy, Guncon 2, Logitech Wheel, etc, etc. The remote is an artificial innovation, and the machine is a disaster, given what they spent in R&D. They could have produced a cheap machine, few times more powerfull than Xbox and still include their "innovation".

But they didn't, they went with the extremely cheapest solution and hope they can charge as much as they can. I can't say I blame them, Nintendo fans are very religious and will buy anything. But for more...let's say concious gamers, this is a ripoff.

You're looking at it the wrong way:

This gen has proved NINTENDO CANNOT COMPETE WITH SONY AND MICROSOFT ON THE SAME GROUNDS. It's true. The Gamecube, and even to some extent the N64 have proved this. I'm almost certain that if there was a GameBoy Turbo or whatever that it would have lost to the PSP. No question.

So, where can Nintendo compete? Nintendo can compete going down a different path. It's the only way they could even hope to compete. Gamecube 2 would have been a disaster, no matter how pretty Zelda and Mario looked.

And for the love of God, stop putting quotes around innovation, ya turd. You may not like it, but it's something drastically new to the console market that's received extremely possitive impressions from the press. It's innovation, like it or not.

 

[snatches]

And next up in the world of shitty analogies...

:lol

Thank God you said that so I didn't have to. He should have referenced Dr. Strangelove and Dude Where's my Car!? for ultimate effect.

 

[Matrix]

I'm all about PS360.

So am I now,wtf.

 

[TheGreatDave]

The average consumer won't buy Twilight Princess and think it looks last gen on Wii. People get really carried away here when they're in the know. Most people don't care about this kind of shit - which is why history is filled with consoles less powerful than their competition emerging as the top sellers.

Nintendo's issue isn't graphics, it's the same as it has been for the last 10 years: can they release games that will appeal to more people than Sony's and Microsoft's? Poly counts and resolution won't mean shit.

 

[jdforge]

no, that's not even remotely what this thread is about. NOT EVEN REMOTELY.

Whatever - Don't bring your parental neglect issues into this Wii hate thread please!

 

[Branduil]

Black and white is not at all analogous to shitty graphics.

SMG, Zelda, MP3, ExciteTruck, and SSBB. None of these have shitty graphics.

 

[CabbageRed]

I'm almost in the same boat. I will get a Wii at some point down the road but am not feeling driven to grab one anytime soon. The controller looks interesting but I doubt I'll see many games using it in fun ways for the first year or so. The 360 has games coming out I want, has better graphics, and the PS3 can make the same claims. Why should I rush out to grab a system with poor graphics and an unproven controller when there is still just as much fun elsewhere?

Spoiler

If you are one of those people who somehow cannot find fun titles on all three systems then you are exempt from the "fun elsewhere" comment and really there is no need to reply to threads like these.

 

[gamergirly]

I'm sure nobody's buying Wii for graphics here. We have 360 and PS3 to push graphics in this gen.... but Wii to provide fresh new aespect in gaming. Definitely worth going for.

Basically so. If you dont understand that, there's no hope for you

 

[jax (old)]

Basically with MrBob here. PS360.

Once it came down to, are you going to get Wii for the Zelda (which I could get on GC)... its no. Most of the games they've shown don't interest me. I think Wii will shock Nintendo at how their strategy failed. Lets hope the mass market/blue ocean is full of fish because this hardcore gamers out.

I'll still support DS though

 

[snatches]

You're looking at it the wrong way:

This gen has proved NINTENDO CANNOT COMPETE WITH SONY AND MICROSOFT ON THE SAME GROUNDS. It's true. The Gamecube, and even to some extent the N64 have proved this. I'm almost certain that if there was a GameBoy Turbo or whatever that it would have lost to the PSP. No question.

Than why not price it for what it is worth? The DS has a price that is easier to justify than the Wii.

 

[jetsetmario]

And next up in the world of shitty analogies...

satire really, but sure.

point is art is technique, not whatever you want to make it out to be.

graphics are the gimmick. they always have been.

 

[AniHawk]

SMG, Zelda, MP3, ExciteTruck, and SSBB. None of these have shitty graphics.

Nothing shitty about MP3 or Excite Truck, but nothing great either. MP3 is also just the same as the previous two incarnations, which use this weird plasticky, videogame-y style when it comes to the in-game models. It's not at all convincing in a game where atmosphere is the big draw.

Than why not price it for what it is worth? The DS has a price that is easier to justify than the Wii.

No it doesn't. The DS was $50 more than what it should've been and the DS Lite is currently $30 more what it should be.

Everything is too damn expensive.

 

[SuperPac]

I have not waffled. I have a 360 for the cutting-edge visual kicks of games like Dead Rising, GRAW, Burnout, etc., and I'll have Wii as my Nintendo-centric game jukebox. I am willing and able to accept visuals that are merely a small step up from last gen for the games Nintendo's offering and for any games that make good use of the Wiimote (Trauma Center, Raving Rabbids maybe). Kinda like how I have a DS and a PSP. They both offer games, but offer different experiences. I don't see it as being much different with Wii and PS3/360.

The only dealbreaker for me would have been games in 4:3. Thank god it doesn't seem like most are. I just don't want to play anything new that doesn't use the whole screen of my new TV. 480p doesn't bother me in the slightest since the graphics will still look pretty sharp and I've liked everything I've seen in videos on the 'Net, no complaints there.

 

[Campster]

This product isn't targeted at my demographic. And personally, it doesn't seem to meet any of my personal needs needs.

This infuriates me.

I need to go post on the internet right now about how much this product has utterly failed me, not just as a consumer, but as a human being.

I don't demand much from companies. Just that they cater to my (and only my) every whim and desire.

 

[Amir0x]

satire really, but sure.

point is art is technique, not whatever you want to make it out to be.

graphics are the gimmick. they always have been.

And the technology is the palette you get to choose from: the better the technology, the better your canvas.

 

[Forgotten Ancient]

I've been a hardcore Nintendo follower since the beginning, but since getting an HDTV and 360 I'm starting to feel the same. I love Nintendo's innovative ideas, but I hate hate hate the way they're implementing them. Why can't we have both? I don't care if next gen is too expensive. I want to spend $500 to waggle my wand to high def Samus in an environment that couldn't have been imagined on the Gamecube.

It really upsets me that I'll have to wait until *at least* next gen for that to be realized.

I'll still get a Wii....but I'm frustrated.

 

[karasu]

A "hardcore gamer" not being able to handle lesser quality visuals? Does not compute.

When you have a TV that's over 50 inches, subpar visuals hurt bad.

 

[Jiggy]

As interesting as the Wiimote is, as a hardcore gamer I just don't know if I can handle last gen visuals.

Did/do you own a GB, GBC, GBA, DS, or PSP?

I don't have a ton of room in my media room for standing up and swinging my arms around.

So buy the non-gimmick traditional-control games, or play the ones that let you calibrate them so you only have to do a flick of the wrist or whatever.

I don't like that the system wasn't designed with me in mind. In fact, it kind of pisses me off. Without me and people like me, Nintendo would still be a trading card company annoying Japanese parents.

Yeah, well. "People like you" in what sense? Fans of gaming? Fans of top-notch graphics for their era?
Fans of 2D? No home console has been designed with me in mind since 1991, and it's 2D gamers who kicked off Nintendo's success. =P

Is anybody else waffling on their Wii60 devotion?

Never a Wii60 devotee, but a Wii devotee well enough. At least until they priced it at $249, forcing me to wait until it drops $50 to what it should have been to begin with.

 

[TheGreatDave]

Than why not price it for what it is worth? The DS has a price that is easier to justify than the Wii.

Because it'll sell well at $250.