Support NeoGAF

[Odinson]

Wii for me but a 360 after a price drop and if there something I want to play on it. I respect the 360 and PS3 for what they are capable of but besides pushing graphics and hardrives what's really new. So when the PS4 comes around the PS3 graphics will be crap and the cycle will continue, and the prices will be higher. We all know that Nintendo can't compete with the two tech giants. If nintendo had added the HD graphics + the contoller+harddrive we would have a much bigger, possibly louder intrusion in the living room. Not to metion this would price them right up there with MS and Sony. That would be gamecube 2. So instead the opted to try to expand this market and give it some growth. This is the begining of the next gen. We see a few games making use of the controller but in a year or two we will see amazing uses for it. Gaming is visual but it's also about interacting. Visuals will keep getting better every gen but it will just be that prettier version of what you played a year ago with more AI and physics. Didn't mean to ramble on but you get the jist of what I'm trying to say...... I hope

 

[KINGMOKU]

I would love to buy all three systems, but I wont support a system over a certain price, as it heads the videogame industry down the wrong path.

The intro price shouldnt be prohibative with a product that you have to keep buying things for to enjoy.

400-600$ is assinine to me.

100-300(Even 300 pisses me off. But, I understand inflation) is it, period.


I'll get them when they drop.

My personal feeling is that the high prices are going to really hurt Sony/Microsoft this round, and the costs of next gen will come back down to earth.

 

[Jiggy]

No it doesn't. The DS was $50 more than what it should've been and the DS Lite is currently $30 more what it should be.

Everything is too damn expensive.

By now the library, upcoming and already out, is so awesome the DS is worth $250 if they felt like it. Best thing ever.

 

[Logan Cano]

You're looking at it the wrong way:

This gen has proved NINTENDO CANNOT COMPETE WITH SONY AND MICROSOFT ON THE SAME GROUNDS. It's true. The Gamecube, and even to some extent the N64 have proved this. I'm almost certain that if there was a GameBoy Turbo or whatever that it would have lost to the PSP. No question.

So, where can Nintendo compete? Nintendo can compete going down a different path. It's the only way they could even hope to compete. Gamecube 2 would have been a disaster, no matter how pretty Zelda and Mario looked.

And for the love of God, stop putting quotes around innovation, ya turd. You may not like it, but it's something drastically new to the console market that's received extremely possitive impressions from the press. It's innovation, like it or not.

No, I can completely see the point you are trying to make, and I still disagree completely. They could have packed an equivalent of a Radeon 9800 in there and a more recent PowerPC chip and still have a cheap console to which you can attach whatever new interface you want. You don't neglect the visual aspect that much that way. It's the "let's rape our fanbase as much as we can" mentality that bothers me.

What I find funny is that you call it a drastically new innovation, and what are the biggest games for it?? Zelda, Mario and Metroid, which could be done with standard controls, and at worse, would need PS3's motion capabilities.

 

[AniHawk]

By now the library, upcoming and already out, is so awesome the DS is worth $250 if they felt like it. Best thing ever.

Well at least most games are $35 at their highest price. Sucks that Castlevaniads 2 is $40. I'm never buying a handheld game over $35.

 

[jarosh]

Whatever - Don't bring your parental neglect issues into this Wii hate thread please!

good stuff

 

[MadraptorMan]

What I find funny is that you call it a drastically new innovation, and what are the biggest games for it?? Zelda, Mario and Metroid, which could be done with standard controls, and at worse, would need PS3's motion capabilities.

I think you should at least play those games on Wii before you say something like this.

 

[Archie]

Well at least most games are $35 at their highest price. Sucks that Castlevaniads 2 is $40. I'm never buying a handheld game over $35.

Portrait of Ruin is 34.99 at Amazon.com and Walmart.com

 

[Oblivion]

Nintendo was absolutely right about there being a point when graphics would reach a level where you can't do much to improve something. Unfortunately, they were one generation too early.

 

[AniHawk]

Portrait of Ruin is 34.99 at Amazon.com and Walmart.com

Well then.

 

[snatches]

I have not waffled. I have a 360 for the cutting-edge visual kicks of games like Dead Rising, GRAW, Burnout, etc., and I'll have Wii as my Nintendo-centric game jukebox. I am willing and able to accept visuals that are merely a small step up from last gen for the games Nintendo's offering and for any games that make good use of the Wiimote

But what about all the awesome shit we are seeing for ps3? Thinking about seeing FFXIII or MGS4 on a big HD set makes me wanna splooge....how long can I hold out? The point is probably less than I can hold out for Wii...and that is how my mind got changed. I think I will get the ps3 in late '07 and probably a Wii in late '08 or so. Maybe I'll buy my daughter a pink one to hook up to her Disney princess TV and I'll play it when nobody's looking.

 

[gamergirly]

But what about all the awesome shit we are seeing for ps3? Thinking about seeing FFXIII or MGS4 on a big HD set makes me wanna splooge....how long can I hold out? The point is probably less than I can hold out for Wii...and that is how my mind got changed. I think I will get the ps3 in late '07 and probably a Wii in late '08 or so. Maybe I'll buy my daughter a pink one to hook up to her Disney princess TV and I'll play it when nobody's looking.

Do you care more about graphics or gameplay?

 

[thefro]

No, I can completely see the point you are trying to make, and I still disagree completely. They could have packed an equivalent of a Radeon 9800 in there and a more recent PowerPC chip and still have a cheap console to which you can attach whatever new interface you want. You don't neglect the visual aspect that much that way. It's the "let's rape our fanbase as much as we can" mentality that bothers me.

They couldn't do that and make it the size of 3 DVD cases. The sucker makes my laptop look gigantic.

 

[Neko Tsukimi]

I'm already pretty happy with current-gen graphics 'cos some of the stuff out right now is just downright pretty. Sure Wii's not that great big step that the other consoles are making, but you can't beat a good gameplay experience.

But DARN it, neither Wii nor the PS3 are out yet. The PS3 has the potential to suck just as hard as Wii has.

Doesn't matter 'cos I look forward to being happy with my choice even if it's not for me (heck, being a girl it feels like 99% of games are not for me).

 

[Campster]

But what about all the awesome shit we are seeing for ps3? Thinking about seeing FFXIII or MGS4 on a big HD set makes me wanna splooge....how long can I hold out? The point is probably less than I can hold out for Wii...and that is how my mind got changed. I think I will get the ps3 in late '07 and probably a Wii in late '08 or so. Maybe I'll buy my daughter a pink one to hook up to her Disney princess TV and I'll play it when nobody's looking.

Fine. You like graphics more than new input technologies. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

However, don't throw a giant hissy fit because there's a console that doesn't provide that. Buy the console that suits your interest, and let's all move on with our lives.

I fail to see the bad side of offering users choices.

 

[open_mouth_]

I'm a hardcore gamer and I hate missing out on any AAA games, especially in genres that I like or that I think my wife would like. So, yeah, I'm going to get all 3 platforms eventually and I'm going to try the best games for each, whether I want to or not. I did it last gen and I'm gonna do it again this gen.

WiiPS360 FTW!

 

[Branduil]

I think you should at least play those games on Wii before you say something like this.

Man, if people took this suggestion to heart, that would mean guys like Logan, Amir0x, and drhone would have almost zero posts. :lol

 

[ivysaur12]

No, I can completely see the point you are trying to make, and I still disagree completely. They could have packed an equivalent of a Radeon 9800 in there and a more recent PowerPC chip and still have a cheap console to which you can attach whatever new interface you want. You don't neglect the visual aspect that much that way. It's the "let's rape our fanbase as much as we can" mentality that bothers me.

What I find funny is that you call it a drastically new innovation, and what are the biggest games for it?? Zelda, Mario and Metroid, which could be done with standard controls, and at worse, would need PS3's motion capabilities.

You mean the same fanbase that went out in DROVES to get the DS, a clearly underpowered system? I don't understand. We're getting (possibly) the best Mario and Zelda games ever. We're getting new FPSs. We're getting the most third party support (thanks to the low-dev costs) than we have since the SNES. I'm sorry if that seems like raping the fanbase to you.

Mario could be done on the PS3. That's true. It would be EXTREMELY hard for Zelda and Metroid. Having the Wii-mote and the analog stick jumbled into one controller would not only be awkward, it wouldn't be fun. Having them seperated feels a a lot more intuitive. MP3 would basically be impossible on the PS3. So would Red Steel. So would WiiSports. Want me to keep going?

 

[AniHawk]

Maybe I'll buy my daughter a pink one to hook up to her Disney princess TV and I'll play it when nobody's looking.

Finally.

You mean the same fanbase that went out in DROVES to get the DS, a clearly underpowered system? I don't understand. We're getting (possibly) the best Mario and Zelda games ever. We're getting new FPSs. We're getting the most third party support (thanks to the low-dev costs) than we have since the SNES. I'm sorry if that seems like raping the fanbase to you.

Mario could be done on the PS3. That's true. It would be EXTREMELY hard for Zelda and Metroid. Having the Wii-mote and the analog stick jumbled into one controller would not only be awkward, it wouldn't be fun. Having them seperated feels a a lot more intuitive. MP3 would basically be impossible on the PS3. So would Red Steel. So would WiiSports. Want me to keep going?

Certainly no one. That "we" stuff was plain embarrassing to read.

 

[Logan Cano]

I think you should at least play those games on Wii before you say something like this.

Oh, come on. Zelda is a port from GCN, so obviously works very well with a pad. Metroid works very similar to a standard FPS (granted, this is where the motion control could make a slight difference) but then look at Mario, if that doesn't scream "I can be controlled with any standard plattform controls" I don't know what does.

It's sterile innovation, IMO.

 

[Oblivion]

They couldn't do that and make it the size of 3 DVD cases. The sucker makes my laptop look gigantic.

Yeah, if the Wii was bigger, it coulda had more horsepower. Nintendo intentionally made that ****er small to force devs to be creative I guess.

 

[fortified_concept]

Do you care more about graphics or gameplay?

Can't he have both?

 

[Jiggy]

No, I can completely see the point you are trying to make, and I still disagree completely. They could have packed an equivalent of a Radeon 9800 in there and a more recent PowerPC chip and still have a cheap console to which you can attach whatever new interface you want. You don't neglect the visual aspect that much that way. It's the "let's rape our fanbase as much as we can" mentality that bothers me.

Prime example: $60 controllers. Yeah, guys, I said wow at that one. Literally. :/

It's astounding how much I can't stand Wii and meanwhile my DS library has already amassed to the same number as all collective GC games I owned past or present. If this is what Iwata meant by saying that the success of DS doesn't guarantee it for Wii, he's right on.

Nintendo was absolutely right about there being a point when graphics would reach a level where you can't do much to improve something. Unfortunately, they were one generation too early.

Spot on.

Well at least most games are $35 at their highest price. [...] I'm never buying a handheld game over $35.

Truth.

 

[snatches]

Did/do you own a GB, GBC, GBA, DS, or PSP?

All, yes. Traded in my PSP due to lack of good software *don't flame me plz thx*

 

[EBCubs03]

I appreciate Wii for games like Mario Galaxy, Metroid, SSBB, but like most of the other people here I'm going to completely ignore 3rd parties. I just hope those games come out soon and there better be some damn good $30 games.

 

[Archie]

I just got done playing SSBM and every time I ko'ed my opponent I would drop on my knees and break down into tears. What I would give to see individual threads of string on Jigglypuff's headband. Why must Nintendo be so cheap and use such underpowered hardware.

 

[Oblivion]

Do you care more about graphics or gameplay?

Come on. Why does it have to be one or the other? What's wrong with both?

 

[drohne]

Can't he have both?

no. graphics are antithetical to gameplay. if you think over your personal gaming history, you'll surely find that the games you had most fun with were the ugliest ones.

any phrase equivalent to "YEAH WELL I PREFER GAMEPLAY" should be immediately laughed out of a graphics discussion. it's pure non sequitur. if you don't care a damn for graphics you may say so. but gameplay is altogether a separate issue.

 

[Squeak]

I don't have a ton of room in my media room for standing up and swinging my arms around.

WELL GUESS WHAT, YOU DON'T HAVE TO!!!

It been said numerous times before and even demonstrated; tiny movements with you fingers will work just as well.

 

[ivysaur12]

Prime example: $60 controllers. Yeah, guys, I said wow at that one. Literally. :/

The Xbox 360 wireless controller is $50. The Wii-mote is $40. The tech in the Wii-mote is vastly more advanced than the 360 controller. The nunchuck is $20. You lose.

 

[EBCubs03]

I just got done playing SSBM and every time I ko'ed my opponent I would drop on my knees and break down into tears. What I would give to see individual threads of string on Jigglypuff's headband. Why must Nintendo be so cheap and use such underpowered hardware.

Completely off the mark, bad trolling, etc

 

[Xdrive05]

I was simply addressing the idea that the DS, while capable of using a new control scheme, can still support the old control schemes as well.

A few quick points about that.
1) The interface change from GBA to DS is nowhere near the difference from Gamecube (or any standard controller) to Wii. And 2) Mario 64 DS. 3) It can't support the old control schemes by definition because it doesn't have two analog sticks. Not to mention the nunchuk isn't compatible with/required for all games (think 'tard pack' + 'lowest common denominator' + 'xbox360 circa MTV event')

So there's practically no point in trying to replicate classic controls on the Wii as it basically can't work (well) and wouldn't take advantage of the real purpose of the platform's controls. But THAT'S OKAY. Wii fans like me should STOP defending the classic usage of the wii as it's not what sets it apart in the first place. I'm stoked about the Wii but not because of the potential to match classic controls.

And, I don't know about Joe, but I really won't be missing any pixel shading when I play Twilight Princess this November, and I would think that I would actually be more picky about graphics than the average casual gamer who doesn't know any better to begin with, and those casuals make up the bulk of the market. My Wii will make use of my new HDTV, as it is the first TV I have ever owned that can display in progressive scan mode! My most played game on 360 since I bought the thing has been Ninja Gaiden, and I really haven't had any issue with 480p. Wii games that DON'T support 480p will definitely look worse, though.

The problem with this is that it doesn't factor in the competition. Like I said before, Joe (or any casuals especially) will see the Wii setup next to the PS3 and X360 kiosks. Casuals are graphics whores almost by definition (especially early in a gen) and Nintendo has an uphill battle when it comes to convincing Joe & Co. to not save up for those pixels and pixel shaders that they appreciate but merely don't know by name.

Handheld standards are different than console standards where graphics are concerned (to Joe). It's okay that DS runs like crap but not so much for a potential home console.

At the end of the day I have a lot of faith in Nintendo (

Spoiler

believe!

) but they aren't playing in home field this time around. If Wii is a huge success, and I think it will be, then that will be Ninty's greatest accomplishment yet. Far greater than the DS was. I'm talking orders of magnitude here.

 

[snatches]

Do you care more about graphics or gameplay?

both. are you going to tell me that FFXIII and MGS4 won't live up to my gameplay expectations? bold move girly.

 

[Branduil]

Oh, come on. Zelda is a port from GCN, so obviously works very well with a pad. Metroid works very similar to a standard FPS (granted, this is where the motion control could make a slight difference) but then look at Mario, if that doesn't scream "I can be controlled with any standard plattform controls" I don't know what does.

It's sterile innovation, IMO.

Not the only thing that's sterile.

I'm interested in how a genious like you would make the pointer function in SMG work on the 360 gamepad. Seriously.

 

[SuperPac]

No, I can completely see the point you are trying to make, and I still disagree completely. They could have packed an equivalent of a Radeon 9800 in there and a more recent PowerPC chip and still have a cheap console to which you can attach whatever new interface you want. You don't neglect the visual aspect that much that way. It's the "let's rape our fanbase as much as we can" mentality that bothers me.

I like how with Wii everyone is an expert on what Nintendo could have done, for what price, and point blame at Nintendo for "raping the fanbase" as if Microsoft and Sony are any different in what they do. But I guess MS and Sony do it in different ways where you don't realize you're getting screwed.

 

[AniHawk]

Completely off the mark, bad trolling, etc

That's what you get with the store brand.

Not the only thing that's sterile.

I'm interested in how a genious like you would make the pointer function in SMG work on the 360 gamepad. Seriously.

Probably with the other thumbstick. Seriously.

 

[Logan Cano]

You mean the same fanbase that went out in DROVES to get the DS, a clearly underpowered system? I don't understand. We're getting (possibly) the best Mario and Zelda games ever. We're getting new FPSs. We're getting the most third party support (thanks to the low-dev costs) than we have since the SNES. I'm sorry if that seems like raping the fanbase to you.

Why do Nintendo fans keep bringin up the DS?? That was a great leap over GBA. Compared to PSP it's shitty yes, but that doesn't deny the former statement. Third party Wii support is made up nearly of shoe horned, bad looking PS2 and Xbox ports. Zelda is a GCN port, which I'll play on my GCN thank you very much.

Mario could be done on the PS3. That's true. It would be EXTREMELY hard for Zelda and Metroid. Having the Wii-mote and the analog stick jumbled into one controller would not only be awkward, it wouldn't be fun. Having them seperated feels a a lot more intuitive. MP3 would basically be impossible on the PS3. So would Red Steel. So would WiiSports. Want me to keep going?

Dude, Zelda is a GCN game...you think that can't work with an existing gamepad?? Metroid...well, that's the only one that could possibly offer something of an enhancement (given that you don't play that for more than 30 minutes). So, what's really new??

 

[ivysaur12]

both. are you going to tell me that FFXIII and MGS4 won't live up to my gameplay expectations? bold move girly.

The PS3 will obviously have good games. That's a stupid point.

What he should have said was do you want great graphics for games that will have extremely high dev costs or would you rather have fun games that don't have as good of graphics, but better games that will come out more often?

 

[snatches]

Man, if people took this suggestion to heart, that would mean guys like Logan, Amir0x, and drhone would have almost zero posts. :lol

I played most of the Wii lineup at e3. You were saying?

 

[plagiarize]

if you can't appreciate the Wii because of it's graphics, i feel sorry for you but i won't try to change your mind.

i can still enjoy gamecube games, so i'm good and there's a lot of games on Wii i'm really excited about.

i can appreciate great graphics and great art, and both are great together. they make a good game better... but they don't make Wii games unplayable to me. can't wait.

 

[Neko Tsukimi]

I just got done playing SSBM and every time I ko'ed my opponent I would drop on my knees and break down into tears. What I would give to see individual threads of string on Jigglypuff's headband. Why must Nintendo be so cheap and use such underpowered hardware.

It wouldn't be good if you saw them... They're made of a material that cannot be beheld by human eyes without risk of going blind. Nintendo is doing this to save your santity!!!!

Spoiler

And what would I give to be able to see Samus' cellulite in her zero suit...

 

[ivysaur12]

Why do Nintendo fans keep bringin up the DS?? That was a great leap over GBA. Compared to PSP it's shitty yes, but that doesn't deny the former statement. Third party Wii support is made up nearly of shoe horned, bad looking PS2 and Xbox ports. Zelda is a GCN port, which I'll play on my GCN thank you very much.



Dude, Zelda is a GCN game...you think that can't work with an existing gamepad?? Metroid...well, that's the only one that could possibly offer something of an enhancement (given that you don't play that for more than 30 minutes). So, what's really new??

Because the DS looks like crap compared to the GBA. And the Wii is launching. The DS launch games looked like CRAP. Look at it now.

What's really new? How about you look beyond the THREE SAME GAMES that you keep bringing up? WiiSports couldn't be done on the PS3. Neither could Red Steel. And those are just launch games.

 

[AniHawk]

It wouldn't be good if you saw them... They're made of a material that cannot be beheld by human eyes without risk of going blind. Nintendo is doing this to save your santity!!!!

Spoiler

And what would I give to be able to see Samus' cellulite in her zero suit...

Samus doesn't have any cellulite. She's the perfect woman.

 

[Y2Kev]

:lol :lol :lol

That's what you get with the store brand.

Probably with the other thumbstick. Seriously.

 

[Jiggy]

The Xbox 360 wireless controller is $50. The Wii-mote is $40. The tech in the Wii-mote is vastly more advanced than the 360 controller. The nunchuck is $20. You lose.

Just because Microsoft is "raping the fanbase" worse doesn't mean Nintendo isn't doing it too.

 

[snatches]

The problem with this is that it doesn't factor in the competition. Like I said before, Joe (or any casuals especially) will see the Wii setup next to the PS3 and X360 kiosks. Casuals are graphics whores almost by definition (especially early in a gen) and Nintendo has an uphill battle when it comes to convincing Joe & Co. to not save up for those pixels and pixel shaders that they appreciate but merely don't know by name.

This is so true and a point that has been missed constantly. The casuals I know, all they talk about is graphics. You don't have to be invested in gamer culture at all to talk graphics. It's the one thing casuals, noobs, and hardcore gamers can all attest to at first glance, and Wii loses.

 

[fortified_concept]

no. graphics are antithetical to gameplay. if you think over your personal gaming history, you'll surely find that the games you had most fun with were the ugliest ones.

any phrase equivalent to "YEAH WELL I PREFER GAMEPLAY" should be immediately laughed out of a graphics discussion. it's pure non sequitur. if you don't care a damn for graphics you may say so. but gameplay is altogether a separate issue.

:lol My sarcasmometer topped out.

 

[drohne]

i'm still perfectly capable of enjoying ps2 games, though my ability to enjoy their graphics has of course been vitiated by a year of 360. whether i'm capable of wanting a new console at roughly that graphical level is a different matter.

 

[kojacker]

The Xbox 360 wireless controller is $50. The Wii-mote is $40. The tech in the Wii-mote is vastly more advanced than the 360 controller. The nunchuck is $20. You lose.

Everyone loses.

 

[MadraptorMan]

Oh, come on. Zelda is a port from GCN, so obviously works very well with a pad. Metroid works very similar to a standard FPS (granted, this is where the motion control could make a slight difference) but then look at Mario, if that doesn't scream "I can be controlled with any standard plattform controls" I don't know what does.

It's sterile innovation, IMO.

Zelda can and certainly is being made with standard controls, but that doesn't mean the Wii controls won't be as good or better. Metroid (and all FPS) will benefit from being freed from the dual analog control scheme. As for Mario, well all you have to do is read all the positive impressions to see that it's working very well.

Saying that gaming won't benefit from the new Wii controls because it isn't a drastic new innovation is simply flawed logic. If we were to take the attitude that the control methods we are used to are already as good as they get, we would still be playing all of our games with an Atari joystick, or at best the NES pad. It's called progress, and there is no way you can possibly know how the Wiimote will impact the way we play games, until you actually play it.