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[exmachina64]

To the Wii U castigators...

What sacrifices would you have made to the system in order to have a faster CPU? A higher price? No Gamepad? Looking at just the basic sku, the ~$300 is going to just two things, the chip-set and the controller. No hard drive, pack in game, or even DVD licensing.

Do you really want to go down this road?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

The system has been out for two weeks. Has everyone forgotton about 360's RRoD issues? You guys act like Wii U is doomed.

I don't act like the Wii U is doomed. I just haven't seen anything concrete to get excited about in terms of this hardware being technically competent relative to current and future competition. You seem to think that a lot of the criticism is unfounded based on hearsay from people that you talk to. Personally, I find such claims to be mildly dubious, as the hardware is out there. It's launched. We've gotten on our hands on it, and we've seen footage of games that are coming out soon.

Graphics aren't everything. I understand that. I'm sure there'll be some rock-solid games that deliver the fun on the Nintendo Wii U, and I look forward to playing them being an owner of the machine. But at this point, I just don't understand the resistance some still exhibit into holding out that -- while few think it'll be on par with the systems of tomorrow -- this thing is quite powerful in its own right, and those that don't think so are just being too harsh.

 

[Gahiggidy]

...

No Gamepad, being able to play off the screen is cool but not worth the sacrifices in the hardware. Is even worst considering that's the Nintendo way of fighting against tablets on ppl houses, since I doubt ppl would use the Wii tablet for anything else except gaming since any other multimedia application is way better on a tablet instead of a bulky, low res and resisitive device.

If there is no Gamepad, you might as well have Nintendo games on other people's consoles (OPC).

 

[ccbfan]

Absolutely, and the companies who take that route will be rewarded ten fold.

That didn't happen to the Wii though.

Heck I could argue that all the Wii 3rd party successes were lazy ports/rehashes and all the 3rd party games that were really innovated with the control sold terribly or mediocrely.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

What exactly needs to be fixed?

...meaning you are stuck with dreadfully low-powered hardware for the next 5-6 years. They can't release a Wii U+ with a better CPU and faster RAM.

Edit: GPU is shit too.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

Do you really want to go down this road?

*clears path*

Yes, please. Do tell.

 

[ZoddGutts]

Is that why the UI supposedly runs like ass? CPU is just struggling on it?

That and the slow ram.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

If there is no Gamepad, you might as well have Nintendo games on other people's consoles (OPC).

They could have easily went the wiimote route with a few enhancements. While flawed that method of control is way more interesting that the gamepad gimmick. (and cheap)

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

even if the anecdotal evidence is to believed (Honestly i don't:- it sounds full of crap)

It still means the Wii U is going to either have the gimped versions of multiplats or ones with the gamepad gimmicks shoehorned in.

exactly like the wii.

 

[AmFreak]

I have to admit, I'm one of the ones who wanted Wii BC most and even I'm wondering if it was worth it. I guess if they had a decent account system it wouldn't, just get the VC games ported over and any WiiWare games that get updated can go onto the eShop.

It was neither worth it, nor necessary for bc.

 

[TrutaS]

Didnt developers say Wii U was great at CPU and bad at GPU? Isn't this exactly the opposite? Also doesn't Galaxy S III have a better cpu (Quad-core 1.4 GHz Cortex-A9) ? I really don't know how these things compare with each other...

 

[Orayn]

Didnt developers say Wii U was great at CPU and bad at GPU? Isn't this exactly the opposite? Also doesn't Galaxy S III have a better cpu (Quad-core 1.4 GHz Cortex-A9) ? I really don't know how these things compare with each other...

The consensus of rumors eventually swung around to favor the GPU, and no, they're not comparable.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

...meaning you are stuck with dreadfully low-powered hardware for the next 5-6 years. They can't release a Wii U+ with a better CPU and faster RAM.

Exactly what I thought you'd say. Would you even know the hardware was "drastically underpowered" had you not seen the specs? Probably not, though I'm sure you will think otherwise. This is exactly why Nintendo doesn't release a lot of info on specs; it's irrelevant. It doesn't affect the quality of their games and it doesn't have any bearing on how the generation will pan out, sales wise. An economic, low power solution that outperforms its more "powerful" rivals is genius in any other business -- only in the world of whiny, nerdy manchildren is it an issue.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

...meaning you are stuck with dreadfully low-powered hardware for the next 5-6 years. They can't release a Wii U+ with a better CPU and faster RAM.

Edit: GPU is shit too.

Well we still don't know much about the GPU aside from clock speed.

And this is actually on the upper end of realistic expectations.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

They could have easily went the wiimote route with a few enhancements. While flawed that method of control is way more interesting that the gamepad gimmick. (and cheap)

After using the gamepad.

No, absolutely not.

 

[SmokyDave]

Exactly what I thought you'd say. Would you even know the hardware was "drastically underpowered" had you not seen the specs? Probably not, though I'm sure you will think otherwise. This is exactly why Nintendo doesn't release a lot of info on specs; it's irrelevant. It doesn't affect the quality of their games and it doesn't have any bearing on how the generation will pan out, sales wise. An economic, low power solution that outperforms its more "powerful" rivals is genius in any other business -- only in the world of whiny, nerdy manchildren is it an issue.

All the third party ports thus far gave it away. The hard numbers just confirm what we already knew.

 

[Gahiggidy]

They could have easily went the wiimote route with a few enhancements. While flawed that method of control is way more interesting that the gamepad gimmick. (and cheap)

I dunno, dude. The other day I was toying around with the Gamepad's view of Nintendoland plaza, trying to shake it and jerk it around to get it off synch. But no matter what I did, it kept the same perspective it had with it in front of my lap. There is huge potential for fresh and engrossing gameplay with that one perspective trick/gimmick.

 

[TheGreyHulk]

No it isn't, at least not in real-world application. Out-of-order execution is great for running sloppily compiled code efficiently, unfortunately the fact that its going to receive ported code optimized to run on in-order hardware is going to undercut that advantage substantially.

What you see in the specs is a system designed to run Nintendo games in HD res, no more, no less. Nintendo's key franchise titles are not that processor intensive; which isn't to say they have less merit, its just that you don't need masses of computation to make a better looking mario, just a solid GPU.

Well, ports will continue to suck if it's just a straight port from 360 and it's in order CPU. The next Xbox is rumored to use a IBM Power7 CPU which is quad core, quad thread ea core which gave us the 16 "core" talk we heard about for the Durango conference. It's out of order and the AMD A10 is out of order, so the future seems to be going into that direction for their CPUs in consoles.

Obviously, the CPU's in the PS4/720 will obliterate this little tri-core, so it really sounds like Nintendo was blowing smoke to us all when they talked about wanting to bring in a more gamer audience so we can get our call of duty, grand theft auto games, but it was all a smoke screen in the end. The only thing they did to cater to devs was give us a pro controller option and that's it.

I think you hit the nail on the head in regards to Nintendo only caring about building a system that's cheap and powerful enough for THEIR franchises. Non of their games require complex AI or complex physics. It's just simple shit, so they just threw in a decent GPU to make it look pretty and that's it.

Luckily for me, I know Nintendo is only about Nintendo. History has shown that people don't buy a ton of 3rd party AAA games on their systems and of course they know this too. No point in building a "360" when gamers will grab those games on their competitors console.

Wii U for Nintendo games
Next Xbox for everything else
PC when that console gen starts dying again

 

[Gahiggidy]

All the third party ports thus far gave it away. The hard numbers just confirm what we already knew.

Would you be surprised if Aliens runs best on Wii U?

 

[jerd]

Not saying that this means much, but I feel like it should be brought back up because it seems to have been nixed from the conversation completely:

So yes, the Wii U CPU is nothing to write home about, but don't compare it clock per clock with a 360 and claim it's much worse. It isn't.

It's worth noting that Espresso is *not* comparable clock per clock to a Xenon or a Cell. Think P4 vs. P3-derived Core series.

Just in case it was missed. Just seems like some are doing exactly that.

https://twitter.com/marcan42

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

Would you even know the hardware was "drastically underpowered" had you not seen the specs?

Considering the number of complaints about the slow UI and load times, absolutely.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

All the third party ports thus far gave it away. The hard numbers just confirm what we already knew.

Yes because systems always launch with killer apps that exploit the system's full potential.

Considering the number of complaints about the slow UI and load times, absolutely.

It's brand new.

 

[PhantomR]

No More Heroes really set the world alight. Red Steel 2 as well. Lost Winds 2 certainly didn't experience cataclysmically poor sales, no sir. Sin & Punishment 2? Chart topper. A Boy and His Blob earned so much money everyone involved can retire!

Exactly.

While games like Just Dance 1 and 2, Resident Evil 4, Epic Mickey, and Monster Hunter Tri? Horrible sales. Absolutely abysmal.


*facepalm

 

[Steve Youngblood]

All the third party ports thus far gave it away. The hard numbers just confirm what we already knew.

I'm really, really baffled by the doubt some seem to express in response to the notion that the Wii U may be a bit under-powered.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Exactly what I thought you'd say. Would you even know the hardware was "drastically underpowered" had you not seen the specs? Probably not, though I'm sure you will think otherwise. This is exactly why Nintendo doesn't release a lot of info on specs; it's irrelevant. It doesn't affect the quality of their games and it doesn't have any bearing on how the generation will pan out, sales wise. An economic, low power solution that outperforms its more "powerful" rivals is genius in any other business -- only in the world of whiny, nerdy manchildren is it an issue.

...so its rivals/competition are the 360 and PS3, a.k.a. current gen? because it won't even be in the same ballpark as the 720 and PS4.

Well we still don't know much about the GPU aside from clock speed.

And this is actually on the upper end of realistic expectations.

Shit in relation to the PS4/720's gpus (most likely).

 

[Tain]

If there is no Gamepad, you might as well have Nintendo games on other people's consoles (OPC).

Being on PC would be the best-case scenario for most video games.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

All the third party ports thus far gave it away. The hard numbers just confirm what we already knew.

Given all the limitations this hardware has imposed on developers, from the pisspoor mem bandwidth, to the woefully underpowered CPU. It's kind of shocking that the ports have held up as well as they have. GPU must be picking up the slack.

 

[Drinky Crow]

paying $350 for a 360 with better shader support kinda hurts, given the relative paucity of content on that new $350 console

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

I dunno, dude. The other day I was toying around with the Gamepad's view of Nintendoland plaza, trying to shake it and jerk it around to get it off synch. But no matter what I did, it kept the same perspective it had with it in front of my lap. There is huge potential for fresh and engrossing gameplay with that one perspective trick/gimmick.

B-b-but underpowered/low specs/last gen/etc

 

[radioheadrule83]

Would you be surprised if Aliens runs best on Wii U?

I'm not talking about Dave here, but the moment a title can be said to run or look better on it, we'll revert back to "DUHURR well done beating 2006 hardware!" and round and round we go

 

[RSLAEV]

Wow this thread is going faster then Wii U CPU!


I'm here all night folks.

Fucken' ZING!


Welp, with production budgets for AAA games going into the stratosphere perhaps nintendo is positioning themselves as a safe haven for Japanese developers that won't have Orbis level resources-I mean they *did* manage to snag monster hunter even though the Vita is more powerful than the 3DS. Annd Shin Megami Tensei IV. And they've rescued my girl Bayonetta-If they end up having an enticing enough library of exclusives I can see that working out pretty well.

 

[Doc Holliday]

To the Wii U castigators...

What sacrifices would you have made to the system in order to have a faster CPU? A higher price? No Gamepad? Looking at just the basic sku, the ~$300 is going to just two things, the chip-set and the controller. No hard drive, pack in game, or even DVD licensing.

No gamepad, Nintendo and their fans are always saying it's about the games. Then put your money where your mouth is. While I'm loving the gamepad features right now I think they could have put the money into better motion controls, and ergonomics.

But it they really wanted a screen:

Smaller screen I think something DS or Iphone size would have been fine. It would require less power to run, and less taxing on the system.

 

[jerd]

Shit in relation to the PS4/720's gpus (most likely).

Anyone thinking this wasn't going to be the case was likely delusional.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

paying $350 for a 360 with better shader support kinda hurts, given the relative paucity of content on that new $350 console

I love how you completely factor out the interface as if that weren't the focus of the system. Bravo!

 

[SmokyDave]

Would you be surprised if Aliens runs best on Wii U?

It will run best on 360. Having said that, if there was one Wii-U game that might have had some serious care lavished on it, Aliens is that game. The reputation of the dev is at stake more than the reputation of the console.

Yes because systems always launch with killer apps that exploit the system's full potential.

They always launch with games indisputably ahead of the previous generation. Well, they used to.

I'm really, really baffled by the doubt some seem to express in response to the notion that the Wii U may be a bit under-powered.

I hate the phrase 'fanboys', so I'll simply say 'brand loyalty'.

Given all the limitations this hardware has imposed on developers, from the pisspoor mem bandwidth, to the woefully underpowered CPU. It's kind of shocking that the ports have held up as well as they have. GPU must be picking up the slack.

Absolutely. I don't buy into the idea that the ultimate potential of the hardware is below current-gen.

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

It's brand new.

What does that have to do with anything? It's not like the hardware is going to magically upgrade itself.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Not saying that this means much, but I feel like it should be brought back up because it seems to have been nixed from the conversation completely:
Just in case it was missed. Just seems like some are doing exactly that.

https://twitter.com/marcan42

No one's missed anything, people are just choosing to ignore it.

The WiiU is not going to compete technically with the other next gen consoles but the hyberbole in this thread is just amazing. Nintendo may have well released a Tandy computer based on the assumptions of some.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

paying $350 for a 360 with better shader support kinda hurts, given the relative paucity of content on that new $350 console

Is there a car analogy for this?

 

[Rikkun]

I don't know, this remembers me of people saying 3DS was doomed because of the lack of second analog. Then they added it, then only a few games used it, then the XL didn't have it...
I wouldn't want to make ALWAYS THE SAME COMPARISON, but Vita has 2 sticks but still, 3DS is stronger.
I'll just buy my WiiU tomorrow and keep it for first party titles and such, I would've bought Xbox and PS3 successors anyway.
And hopefully I'll get a Vita for Christmas

 

[KageMaru]

Well we still don't know much about the GPU aside from clock speed.

And this is actually on the upper end of realistic expectations.

Well based on the final spec leaked thread, the GPU really isn't anything special. Clock speed is about what I expected, ROPs likely match current gen at 8 ROPS, DX10.1 design, and we don't know if there have been any modifications that can be seen as an upgrade.

It's true that there is still much we don't know, but so far all signs point to "meh" IMO. Keep in mind this is just in comparison to what's expected from the other two next gen.

 

[Drinky Crow]

buying a honda fit with a spoiler and big ol' pipe draggin' off the back? throw on a type-r sticker or 3, 'cuz edram! gpgpu!

 

[theman5141]

I realize we have no hard quantitative data for the GPU outside of the clock frequency, but might one of the more sensible Gaffers post several possible scenarios for raw FLOPS performance (with likely shader unit counts)?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

They always launch with games indisputably ahead of the previous generation. Well, they used to.

Or, if it really is just a matter of a rushed launch where Nintendo is polishing their aces in the hole and third parties just haven't had enough time to get acclimated, you'd think we'd have at least gotten some glimpse into what that dazzling first party software might be. The only thing the Wii U can point to as technological accomplishments is "hey, for as bad as the hardware supposedly is, those rushed ports could have been worse," and "hey, remember how awesome that thirty second Zelda demo looked."

 

[SmokyDave]

buying a honda fit with a spoiler and big ol' pipe draggin' off the back? throw on a type-r sticker or 3, 'cuz edram! gpgpu!

When will the VTEC kick in?

Or, if it really is just a matter of a rushed launch where Nintendo is polishing their aces in the hole and third parties just haven't had enough time to get acclimated, you'd think we'd have at least gotten some glimpse into what that dazzling first party software might be. The only thing the Wii U can point to as technological accomplishments is "hey, for as bad as the hardware supposedly is, those rushed ports could have been worse," and "hey, remember how awesome that thirty second Zelda demo looked."

I think we'll see some handsome first party software by the time all's said and done but the notion that we will say 'wow' is well out of the window.

 

[Saint Gregory]

buying a honda fit with a spoiler and big ol' pipe draggin' off the back? throw on a type-r sticker or 3, 'cuz edram! gpgpu!

Ah yes, this is the Drinky Crow I know. Glad that you got your account back from those damn hackers.

 

[prag16]

I haven't played any recent ones so that's probably it.

Modern Warfare 3 for Wii was probably the one that nailed this the best. Goldeneye and Black Ops were good too.

 

[test_account]

buying a honda fit with a spoiler and big ol' pipe draggin' off the back? throw on a type-r sticker or 3, 'cuz edram! gpgpu!

For some reason, this reminded me of that old Sega Genesis commercial hehe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rDpTLY6dpXQ#t=18s

 

[Koren]

No Gamepad, being able to play off the screen is cool but not worth the sacrifices in the hardware. Is even worst considering that's the Nintendo way of fighting against tablets on ppl houses, since I doubt ppl would use the Wii tablet for anything else except gaming since any other multimedia application is way better on a tablet instead of a bulky, low res and resisitive device.

I will probably use Wii tablet for many things besides gaming. While I agree that it'll be inferior to a decent tablet, I don't feel the need to fork $200-250 just to replace the Wii U pad by a tablet in my living room.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I think we'll see some handsome first party software by the time all's said and done but the notion that we will say 'wow' is well out of the window.

I agree with this.

 

[Osiris]

When will the VTEC kick in?

When the thieving twoc'er nabs it off your drive in the middle of the night.