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[qizah]

I feel like most people here expect that the Wii U is super easy to port to and thus are expecting great ports from the get go. Even if the Wii U is similar in specifications to the Xbox 360, it's still a different platform with it's own strengths and weaknesses and it's own architecture. I'm doubtful porting is as easy as most people here assume, especially with a fresh console.

Developers have had seven-six years to work with the 360/PS3 and at this point and are fairly comfortable with the platforms. Like any new platform release, it's going to take time to understand the hardware and how to optimize games for that hardware.

That being said, freaking out about the CPU speed is useless in my opinion. If it was a huge issue we wouldn't see any competent ports. As mentioned earlier, Assassin's Creed III has been an on-par experience and for the most part, Black Ops 2 has been as well (Multiplayer).

The hyperbole about the system being a failure, games not running well and the doubt of the Zelda E3 demo being realized on the Wii U is kind of ridiculous. The best part about the Wii U is that it's different, yet again, like the Wii was. They know being a me too console is not going to benefit them, so they have to provide a differentiating factor. I'm also hoping the same for Microsoft and Sony - and I'm also hoping they echo the message as Nintendo that they don't want to add to rising development costs, because no one is going to buy a $599 console in this economy.

I feel like a large portion of gamers recognize that as an issue for the industry; and if a lot of us know that's an issue, I'm sure a lot of developers know too.

I just find it baffling people are so quick to jump on calling the console a failure. To me if I was so concerned about specifications, I'd jump on the PC wagon (I plan to anyway) instead because then that way I'd ensure I'd have the most powerful machine that can be upgraded in a few years.

 

[Gahiggidy]

...

But it they really wanted a screen:

Smaller screen I think something DS or Iphone size would have been fine. It would require less power to run, and less taxing on the system.

One, the power from the screen size is kinda moot, as devs can use as little or as much fillrate/gflops/whatever for the screen and not the tv set. If anything, the added screen pushed Ninty to up the specs, not lower.

Two, any significant added cost of the Gamepad is probably due to the streaming tech and not the size of the screen. I doubt they'd have much extra budget to work with with a smaller screen scenario.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Well based on the final spec leaked thread, the GPU really isn't anything special. Clock speed is about what I expected, ROPs likely match current gen at 8 ROPS, DX10.1 design, and we don't know if there have been any modifications that can be seen as an upgrade.

It's true that there is still much we don't know, but so far all signs point to "meh" IMO. Keep in mind this is just in comparison to what's expected from the other two next gen.

A few modifications here and there. arkam alluding to it have pixel crunching capability in excess of standard SM4 functionality.

No powerhouse by any stretch. Still I question the necessity of more to realize a vision.

 

[SapientWolf]

... and the closer CPU and GPU are, like Wii U as well as Durango and Orbis should all sport (CPU's and GPU's talking over lower latency and higher bandwidth channels compared to the previous generation of consoles), this should work quite well.

The problem with using the GPU as co-processor to the CPU is that the more you use it for non graphical tasks in the stream processing friendly portions of your code the less you can use it for purely graphical tasks.

The GPU architecture isn't anything close to the CPU's, unless AMD lost their sanity.

 

[Tain]

"Hardware doesn't matter" is something said by extremely shortsighted people. It ignores how the hardware guides design choices and how it encourages or discourages aesthetic decisions that both convey and work closely with the mechanics (which are similarly hardware-guided!) in all of these ridiculously complicated games.

but yeah, sure, hardware doesn't matter and bayonetta would exist and be just fine on a gameboy pocket.

 

[EatinOlives]

even if the anecdotal evidence is to believed (Honestly i don't:- it sounds full of crap)

It still means the Wii U is going to either have the gimped versions of multiplats or ones with the gamepad gimmicks shoehorned in.

exactly like the wii.

This. Unfortunately I called it way since last year and was called a troll. Ever since then the way events have unfolded and people reacted, it's almost an identical repeat of 2006.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

I think we'll see some handsome first party software by the time all's said and done but the notion that we will say 'wow' is well out of the window.

Still so focused on graphics, haha

 

[SmokyDave]

Still so focused on graphics, haha

That's the funny thing about VIDEO games.

 

[Agent Unknown]

Shin'en strikes again.

"The CPU and GPU are a good match. As said before, today’s hardware has bottlenecks with memory throughput when you don’t care about your coding style and data layout. This is true for any hardware and can’t be only cured by throwing more megahertz and cores on it. Fortunately Nintendo made very wise choices for cache layout, ram latency and ram size to work against these pitfalls. Also Nintendo took care that other components like the Wii U GamePad screen streaming, or the built-in camera don’t put a burden on the CPU or GPU."

You hear that? Stop focusing on Mhz. Focus on the architecture.

Dang, Shin'owned!

 

[Drinky Crow]

we need to queue up some comments circa 2007 about the wii's graphics being wholly adequate! "the wii will do in sd what the 360/ps3 do in hd!" was a common refrain.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

 

[Thunder Monkey]

"Hardware doesn't matter" is something said by extremely shortsighted people. It ignores how the hardware guides design choices and how it encourages or discourages aesthetic decisions that both convey and work closely with the mechanics (which are similarly hardware-guided!) in all of these ridiculously complicated games.

but yeah, sure, hardware doesn't matter and bayonetta would exist and be just fine on a gameboy pocket.

In this era?

If your vision can't be represented accurately by a 360... are you even making a game at that point?

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

"Hardware doesn't matter" is something said by extremely shortsighted people. It ignores how the hardware guides design choices and how it encourages or discourages aesthetic decisions that both convey and work closely with the mechanics (which are similarly hardware-guided!) in all of these ridiculously complicated games.

but yeah, sure, hardware doesn't matter and bayonetta would exist and be just fine on a gameboy pocket.

Obviously hardware matters, but not to the degree all the graphics whores think it does.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Or, if it really is just a matter of a rushed launch where Nintendo is polishing their aces in the hole and third parties just haven't had enough time to get acclimated, you'd think we'd have at least gotten some glimpse into what that dazzling first party software might be. The only thing the Wii U can point to as technological accomplishments is "hey, for as bad as the hardware supposedly is, those rushed ports could have been worse," and "hey, remember how awesome that thirty second Zelda demo looked."

It doesn't make sense to big up their "aces" now given they will shift all the hardware they make anyway and that games like NSMBU and ZombiU are so prominently marketed. Gives their partner's launch software a chance to sell, and when they need to promote this thing further they can give us more.. I'm not expecting to see any big game news until E3 to be honest, they'll hold cards like Mario, Zelda or Retro's game as counter punches to the new console reveals. Won't surprise me to see a price drop or a bundle announcement or something come June either.

I take your point that it means they aren't illustrating the potential well though.

 

[Fenderputty]

Exactly what I thought you'd say. Would you even know the hardware was "drastically underpowered" had you not seen the specs? Probably not, though I'm sure you will think otherwise. This is exactly why Nintendo doesn't release a lot of info on specs; it's irrelevant. It doesn't affect the quality of their games and it doesn't have any bearing on how the generation will pan out, sales wise. An economic, low power solution that outperforms its more "powerful" rivals is genius in any other business -- only in the world of whiny, nerdy manchildren is it an issue.

Does anyone else find this comment as highly ironic as I do considering how vigorously he's defending Nintendo here?

 

[brandonh83]

ugh people on my facebook are posting messages on my wall about how slow and bad the Wii U is and that I should have saved my money for the next Xbox. jesus fuckity fuck

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

That's the funny thing about VIDEO games.

graphics don't matter, stop being silly.

OH MY GOD, LOOK AT THAT ZELDA DEMO. NEXT-GEN HAS ARRIVED!

 

[PaNaMa]

Told my gf that Wii U CPU clock speed was 1.25 gigahertz. I bet you all can imagine how much she cared. And extrapolate how much nintendo fan nation as a whole is gonna care. It's new, it features a tablet, new mario and zelda games are incoming.
Did I meantime it features a tablet controller?

 

[EatinOlives]

In this era?

If your vision can't be represented accurately by a 360... are you even making a game at that point?

Why do people insist we've hit some kind of ceiling with 360 level hardware? We haven't even come close to it.

 

[CambriaRising]

Does anyone else find this comment as highly ironic as I do considering how vigorously he's defending Nintendo here?

I certainly chuckled a bit.

 

[Drinky Crow]

that I should have saved my money for the next Xbox. jesus fuckity fuck

this is true regardless

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

That's the funny thing about VIDEO games.

Well, that just shows how one dimensional your perspective is. Some of the most successful games of all time were not very revolutionary in terms of graphics.

 

[mrklaw]

t's worth noting that Espresso is *not* comparable clock per clock to a Xenon or a Cell. Think P4 vs. P3-derived Core series.

But which one is Wii U - the P3 or the P4?

I know you can't compare based purely on clock speed, architecture can affect things a lot. But if wiiU CPU is closely based on Wii, which in turn was based on GameCube, then surely the architecture is also pretty ancient?

 

[brandonh83]

this is true regardless

Perhaps to them, and perhaps to you, but certainly not I. I didn't play any games on PS360 that appealed to me more than the likes of Mario Galaxy or the Zelda games on Wii, but to each his own.

 

[Mudkips]

That's the funny thing about VIDEO games.

When you eat Mexican food, do you focus on the Mexican, or the food?
When you have a hot girlfriend, do you focus on the hotness or the girlfriend?

Being shallow leads to bad food, bad relationships, and bad games.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I have no doubt that Wii U can produce aesthetically pleasing experiences. Will it do so with 500 characters on screen or a million particles? No. But at least it's in HD and can pull off MSAA. So IQ should not hold back the more unique art styles (like it did, for example, with Skyward Sword).

 

[metalslimer]

My personal preference? The gamepad seems cool and all, but it may have been better served being a Kinect like optional peripheral that didn't bog down the cost of the system so much. I think motion controls should have been pursued further instead of giving up so fast.

this is true regardless

The money would be better spent on a PC upgrade.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

Does anyone else find this comment as highly ironic as I do considering how vigorously he's defending Nintendo here?

I'm not defending Nintendo so much as the philosophy. I believe in doing more with less.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Obviously hardware matters, but not to the degree all the graphics whores think it does.

Hardware isn't just for graphics, good lord. Its for AI, its for computational stuff like destructable environments (MGRising for instance), its for worlds like Minecraft, giant seamless environments with quick streaming. Its for gameplay. Visuals on a screen in conjunction with your input, wonderous things. More power always welcomed.

God it really is 2006 all over again. I know a Nintendo cycle always feels the same since the same franchises get trotted out, but the same messageboard rhetoric is taking the reliving the past and nostalgia angle too far. Ay ay ay. You even took solace in a Gahiggidy quote. Pick yourself up man!!

 

[mrklaw]

When will the VTEC kick in?



I think we'll see some handsome first party software by the time all's said and done but the notion that we will say 'wow' is well out of the window.

I said wow at mario galaxy. What Nintendo manage on that title on such shit hardware was a miracle.

 

[EatinOlives]

Well, that just shows how one dimensional your perspective is. Some of the most successful games of all time were not very revolutionary in terms of graphics.

I think failing to understand the inherent importance of visual fidelity in a medium mainly about visual feedback is what is truly one-dimensional.

It's perfectly plausible to want the best of both. Giving graphical fidelity importance does not a "graphics whore" make. Let's just get that out of the way before people start trotting out the "bububu- minecraft!" examples.

 

[Einbroch]

I'm surprised people care about this at all. In a year it'll just be another Wii: amazing first party games and that's it.

Who cares about how fast or slow the processor is. We have this thing in our hands. We know what the baseline for it is.

 

[P90]

As long as it can do whatever Atlus will want, I am cool with whatever the tech is.

 

[Kosma]

we need to queue up some comments circa 2007 about the wii's graphics being wholly adequate! "the wii will do in sd what the 360/ps3 do in hd!" was a common refrain.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119261

Are these screenshots direct feed or taken off a monitor? Everything seems too blurry.

Zombie James knew what was up

 

[Tain]

Obviously hardware matters, but not to the degree all the graphics whores think it does.

It's a matter of always wanting the best. In no universe would I skip Bayonetta 2 for being on roughly 360-level hardware (which is why I have a Wii U, obviously), but hell if I'm not going to admit that it would be even more engaging on better hardware.

 

[Pimpbaa]

ugh people on my facebook are posting messages on my wall about how slow and bad the Wii U is and that I should have saved my money for the next Xbox. jesus fuckity fuck

If anyone said that to me, it'd tell them I don't need to "save money" to buy a console.

 

[Rodney McKay]

When you eat Mexican food, do you focus on the Mexican, or the food?
When you have a hot girlfriend, do you focus on the hotness or the girlfriend?

When you eat a poison mushroom, do you focus on the poison or the mushroom?
When you have a nonexistent sex-drive, do you focus on the non-existent or the sex-drive?

Words yo, sometimes adjectives are important too.

 

[SapientWolf]

I'm surprised people care about this at all. In a year it'll just be another Wii: amazing first party games and that's it.

Who cares about how fast or slow the processor is. We have this thing in our hands. We know what the baseline for it is.

Developers.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

Hardware isn't just for graphics, good lord. Its for AI, its for computational stuff like destructable environments (MGRising for instance), its for worlds like Minecraft, giant seamless environments with quick streaming. Its for gameplay. Visuals on a screen in conjunction with your input, wonderous things. More power always welcomed.

Really man? Thanks for telling me that, I've only been playing games for 27 years.

 

[Maxrunner]

this is true regardless

Wrong at least pick the right console man.

 

[Coolwhip]

We should make a collage of all posts that created drama over the HERZ numbers.

Also, all the people having big dreams about AI and physics on new hardware. I hope you realise that games that rely on tech aka the cinematic games aren't going for super complex AI, they want to guide you through a narrow path with as much cinematic 'scenes' as possible. Unless anyone has a reason to believe this trend is going away.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Why do people insist we've hit some kind of ceiling with 360 level hardware? We haven't even come close to it.

You think that's what I'm saying?

The closer interpretation would be "There's only a handful of games on this generation of consoles that are not possible on the generation prior in a pure mechanics sense."

Take away frivolities of their design and they'd be possible. At some point you're not improving the core mechanics by increasing hardware power, just increasing visual fidelity. Which is a part of videogames (video being one of it's descriptors), but not the only. In a mechanics sense... 360 hardware can achieve just about any gameplay scenario you can envision.

It just depends on what priorities you have. If you want 100's if not thousands of individualized characters on screen? Still not impossible to achieve on the 360. If you want all of them to have randomized pathways and scripting? That will take concessions on the visual side, or just more power to achieve the fidelity intended.

But nothing about that denies my post.

 

[jerd]

That's the funny thing about VIDEO games.

This is kind of silly. I think the point is, there is a lot more to a game that can wow you than the number of polygons. Think SMG, Rayman Origins, Muramasa, Bastion, Xenoblade, etc. The graphics will likely be unimpressive in comparison to PC and newer consoles, but the idea that it won't be able to wow people is kind of dumb.

 

[Kosma]

SUPER TREE RUN!

SMG & Excite Truck look great, and even better in motion. Red Steel looks much, much better, but those are still bullshots - I'm waiting for vids of the alleged new build.

Alleged new Red Steel build*

 

[CambriaRising]

Developers.

I played hockey and did cocaine with Naughty Dog the other day and they said they don't care.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

ugh people on my facebook are posting messages on my wall about how slow and bad the Wii U is and that I should have saved my money for the next Xbox. jesus fuckity fuck

Sounds like you have some wise friends

 

[radioheadrule83]

Sounds like you have some wise friends

it sounds like he has nauseatingly closed minded neogaffers as friends

 

[brandonh83]

Sounds like you have some wise friends

Sounds like I'm in a thread that I don't really belong in, to be honest-- so my mistake!

 

[Einbroch]

Developers.

And they've had it for a while and know all about it. I'm asking why we as consumers care now. If this information had been out months ago, that's one thing. But people have this in their homes. They see what it can do. Obviously it'll look better as the platform develops and developers get more comfortable with it.

We all knew it was about the level of the current gen systems. And it sounds like this is just confirming that (P4 v P3 post, etc). I just don't know what there is to discuss besides the same thing people have been posting for the past few months. It's just like everyone rotates between threads, posting their "Wii U sucks" or "Wii U is awesome" posts, having the same arguments over and over again, only to leave angry until the next Wii U thread pops up and goes 120 pages.

 

[ja30278]

But which one is Wii U - the P3 or the P4?

I know you can't compare based purely on clock speed, architecture can affect things a lot. But if wiiU CPU is closely based on Wii, which in turn was based on GameCube, then surely the architecture is also pretty ancient?

In this case, the Wii U would be the p3-derived core-duo. P4 was able to achieve higher clock speeds, but was ultimately somewhat of an evolutionary dead-end.

The 'core' architecture that replaced P4s is ultimately a revival of the pentium pro line, so 'age' of the original design isn't necessarily an indicator of useful speed.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

Sounds like you have some wise friends

I played hockey and did cocaine with Naughty Dog the other day and they said they don't care.

The butthurtness is strong with these two.