Japan has even less Western indie tittles because you can't self publish; you need to be based in Japan (to be able to provide JP support) so you must go through a JP publisher. As for the size of the markets for dedicated gaming platforms (so no mobile), EU is ahead of Japan. Consoles are on life support right now in Japan.
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Wii U Indie Game Scene. What Happened?
- Thread starter BlackBanditSho
- Start date
Japan has even less Western indie tittles because you can't self publish; you need to be based in Japan (to be able to provide JP support) so you must go through a JP publisher. As for the size of the markets for dedicated gaming platforms (so no mobile), EU is ahead of Japan. Consoles are on life support right now in Japan.
As indie devs we're making forma.8 for Wii U, launching at the same time as the other platforms, and we have more unannounced games coming on Wii U this year.
All I can say is that we have a very good relationship with Nintendo and they're extremely indie friendly. It was like that since the beginning for us (we started working with them in late 2013), I don't know how it was before but it's definitely a thumbs up for us.
As a side note, Nintendo now support the IARC rating system, which is huge for small indie devs. You get your age rating also for Europe and Australia in a matter of minutes, free. Waiting for PEGI for 1+ week or even more for AU and German ratings is a true pain for small devs.
All I can say is that we have a very good relationship with Nintendo and they're extremely indie friendly. It was like that since the beginning for us (we started working with them in late 2013), I don't know how it was before but it's definitely a thumbs up for us.
As a side note, Nintendo now support the IARC rating system, which is huge for small indie devs. You get your age rating also for Europe and Australia in a matter of minutes, free. Waiting for PEGI for 1+ week or even more for AU and German ratings is a true pain for small devs.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Vita.
I can't speak for Wii U (I know it's selling poorly in most of Europe but it's not as if it's selling well anywhere) but Japan is absolutely ahead of the rest of the world in terms of handheld sales and that gulf will only increase if the dedicated handheld market persists beyond 3DS.
The JP publisher thing is true but's it's tangential to my point, which was that if you can release you game in all three regions you'll almost definitely sell significantly fewer copies in PAL territories than either JP or NA. It's never 33/33/33 and often closer to 40+/40+/15. There are lots of reasons for this: lower online connectivity rates, less favourable prices, younger demographics in certain countries, etc.
Alex
Member
While I'd rather keep most of my kit on my PC when possible but I was hoping we'd maybe see a few attempts of uses of the gamepad here with certain titles. Sadly, it never really happened. People can conjure up these lists but I subsist largely on indie games lately and there's pretty much none of the titles I loved/am looking forward to coming out for it. It's very awkward.
I'm sort of doubting policy concerns, I mean maybe but I think it's moreso Nintendo isn't doing much to court or coax developers and there's a laundry list of more eager, easier platforms to target. It's probably just a byproduct of being related to the PS4 but even the little Vita is running rings around the Wii U in terms of meaningful indie support let alone the other consoles or PC.
I'm sort of doubting policy concerns, I mean maybe but I think it's moreso Nintendo isn't doing much to court or coax developers and there's a laundry list of more eager, easier platforms to target. It's probably just a byproduct of being related to the PS4 but even the little Vita is running rings around the Wii U in terms of meaningful indie support let alone the other consoles or PC.
Vita has basically no support from Sony in the West anymore, and the third-party games released are very niche, so there's space for the indies shine by themselves.
Wii U still at least have some Nintendo games to compete with those smaller games.
Jonneh3003
Banned
A lot of indie titles on PSN are crossbuy with PS4/PS3 adding further value and more appeal to the consumer. I don't think Vita would be rolling in indies without it but either way the Vita is also a portable device with enough power for a lot of indie games. Because of the Vita's nature it's a more appealing device to play indie games on. 3DS could be in the same position if it had more power.
March of the Crabs
Member
The Wii U indie scene is as good as it possibly could be on a console in its situation. The indie library is fantastic with some great exclusives (FAST Racing, Affordable Space Adventures) and launched some awesome games that made their way to other platforms (Shovel Knight, Stealth Inc 2)
Jonneh3003
Banned
Indeed, in my opinion the Wii U has the best exclusive Indie games out of any of the primary console brands. It may not get all of them but it sure does get a ton.
You're looking for indies with good Gamepad support? Not including off-screen Gamepad play, here are some:
* Affordable Space Adventures
* Runbow (ColourMaster and Grey Man)
* Year Walk
* Stealth Inc. 2
* Swords and Soldiers II
* Nihilumbra
* Tengami (this one is a simple implementation, but it works great)
* Stick it to the Man
EDIT: There are also a game like Canvaleon, which is all designed around the use of the Gamepad. The platforming in that game was a bit meh though when I tried it, so I can't recommend it. Haven't played it since the update though, perhaps it's better now. Typoman also have some inconsistencies that doesn't make it a great game.
The next Nintendo console and handheld is likely going to face an uphill fight against availability on other ecosystems where their primary consumer are entrenched in. Especially PC, or Steam to be exact.
And that's assuming the audience won't decrease given the handheld outlook in an increasingly mobile dominated world.
The audience just aren't there unless its 1) in genres Nintendo are popular with 2) the NX version is the superior version. And the games has to be good to stand out from Nintendo own offerings.
And that's assuming the audience won't decrease given the handheld outlook in an increasingly mobile dominated world.
The audience just aren't there unless its 1) in genres Nintendo are popular with 2) the NX version is the superior version. And the games has to be good to stand out from Nintendo own offerings.
As of September 30, 2015
Wii U hardware:
Americas: 5,21 mil
Japan: 2,66 mil
Other: 2,87 mil
Wii U Software:
Americas: 38,28 mil (134 titles)
Japan: 11 mil (90 titles)
Other: 19,77 mil (126 titles)
This is a Wii U thread but just for the sake of it:
3DS hardware
Americas: 18,27 mil
Japan: 19,79 mil
Other: 16,29 mil
3DS software:
Americas: 82,27 mil (379 titles)
Japan: 94,37 mil (490 titles)
Other: 68,22 mil (426 titles)
Unfortunately, those are only sales for retail (physical and digital) titles if I'm reading the report right .
Show me some sources because the 40+/40+/15 split sounds complete bullshit, especially for Western developed games. Just look at the sizes of the gaming markets in each country. And the younger audience disproportionately affect the 3DS; Smash DLC is selling better on Wii U despite the 3DS selling 1,8x as much; 7,37 mil vs 4,03 mil. And you know, JP has historically had higher prices and an aversion to digital games.
primasaurus
Member
Always found this GT thread useful, particularly later posts on many of the Wii U exclusives
http://www.gametrailers.com/forums/read/688.900380-Indie-games-coming-to-Wii-U?page=1
I'm at the front page of the european eshop right now, and right at the top I see big banners for Minecraft, Runbow, FAST Racing Neo and one for Super Mario Maker. So three of the 4 banners at the top feature Indie games.
When I scroll down a little I see under the WiiU games section: a banner for Shovel Knight, two banners for EnjoyUp and Neko-Entertaiment games which are currently on sale, an Indie game banner and another one with eshop highlights from December 2015.
There is also a "Search by character"-section at the front page. Right besides Mario, Link, Kirby and Samus there is an "Indie characters"-banner.
So based on the european eshop I can't say I agree with that. I can't speak about the other regions though.
TheMoon
Member
+
Spin the Bottle: Bumpie's Party (unique party games that don't need TV)
Trine Enhanced Edition (touch UI)
Trine 2: Director's Cut (touch UI)
Temple of Yog (world shifts between both screens)
Cubemen 2 (touch UI/controls)
Terraria (touch UI, long distance mining -coming soon, opinion based on 3DS ver.)
Human Resource Machine (fully touch-controlled)
Little Inferno (fully touch-controlled)
Castlestorm (touch UI/controls, two-screen multiplayer)
Squids Odyssey (fully touch-controlled)
Typoman (touch controls)
Canvaleon (paint camouflage)
Zombie Defense (fully touch-controlled)
Starwhal (Wii U exclusive asymmetric 5-player mode)
added a few that are more than just 1:1 multiplatform ports or use the second screen for more than just a map-like screen.
Sylverstone14
Member
Read through the entire thread. It really was a slog and there were moments where I just cringed (speaking to the drive-by posts left and right).
It just goes to show you who's really paying attention to the Nintendo eShop from those that know fuck-all about anything but the ol' "Nintendo gonna Nintendo" adage.
I've covered the Wii U eShop over on Reddit's /r/WiiU for more than two years and found myself very entranced by the wealth of independently made content. Sure, not all of them were great, but it was somewhat of a renaissance for Nintendo from the days of them "not being interested in the garage developer". Had I told someone about this open eShop with indie-friendly policies in 2009, I would've been jeered at.
I mostly have Emily Rogers to thank when she interviewed numerous indies about possibly working on the eShop, and there were a ton of great games that I would not have known about had I ignored the article.
Furthermore, in terms of visibility, I kickstarted an AMA series over on Reddit (which we called Nindies @ /r/WiiU) for devs to come in and chat with the community and tell them more about what they've worked on, plus I personally shared eShop news for weeks on end to really educate people on the content that was coming from the smaller developers.
I honestly laughed at the misinformation in this thread because some people really do not know what's been happening on the other side, and they only seem interested in the super notable indies that barely take a glance at the Nintendo audience for whatever reason.
So yeah, at least come into this thread knowing something about the Wii U eShop, and stop hanging on to old tales and hearsay.
Bottom line - the scene is strong, and Nintendo is continually learning. I feel like it will be an immense strength for them in the next Nintendo console generation in terms of getting content for NX on the digital front.
It just goes to show you who's really paying attention to the Nintendo eShop from those that know fuck-all about anything but the ol' "Nintendo gonna Nintendo" adage.
I've covered the Wii U eShop over on Reddit's /r/WiiU for more than two years and found myself very entranced by the wealth of independently made content. Sure, not all of them were great, but it was somewhat of a renaissance for Nintendo from the days of them "not being interested in the garage developer". Had I told someone about this open eShop with indie-friendly policies in 2009, I would've been jeered at.
I mostly have Emily Rogers to thank when she interviewed numerous indies about possibly working on the eShop, and there were a ton of great games that I would not have known about had I ignored the article.
Furthermore, in terms of visibility, I kickstarted an AMA series over on Reddit (which we called Nindies @ /r/WiiU) for devs to come in and chat with the community and tell them more about what they've worked on, plus I personally shared eShop news for weeks on end to really educate people on the content that was coming from the smaller developers.
I honestly laughed at the misinformation in this thread because some people really do not know what's been happening on the other side, and they only seem interested in the super notable indies that barely take a glance at the Nintendo audience for whatever reason.
So yeah, at least come into this thread knowing something about the Wii U eShop, and stop hanging on to old tales and hearsay.
Bottom line - the scene is strong, and Nintendo is continually learning. I feel like it will be an immense strength for them in the next Nintendo console generation in terms of getting content for NX on the digital front.
OrbitalBeard
Member
What an odd thread. I've been incredibly pleased with the indie support on Wii U. There have been plenty of indie multiplats and quite a few exclusives as well.
Sure, it could be better. I do think part of the issue is hardware-related, so I'm expecting some more indie multiplats on NX. I think having a unified OS platform will also really help.
But still, this thread is silly. Plenty of great indies to play on Wii U.
Sure, it could be better. I do think part of the issue is hardware-related, so I'm expecting some more indie multiplats on NX. I think having a unified OS platform will also really help.
But still, this thread is silly. Plenty of great indies to play on Wii U.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
You should work in their PR department.
clevbrowns94
Member
It's been the only highlight of the system's third party support. Even if it's dying down lately, so is the system and it will be replaced soon. And there's been plenty of great Wii U indie games overall, too many for me to keep up with and play them all.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Good luck for forma8 fellow countryman, I've tried the e3 nindies demo and, even tho I'm not sure it's my cup of tea, I'll be there to support you guys anyway. Even more announced WiiU games on the book you say? That's pretty darn cool, interest piqued!
Jonneh3003
Banned
I sadly am doing a degree in PR and eyeing up Nintendo...
Astral Dog
Member
Are those games on PS3 and 360?
LordOcidax
Member
To OP.
Colonel Mustard
Banned
Well he's not wrong.
I've had more fun playing Runbow, Affordable Space Adventures and Spin the Bottle with friends than I have with any other indie release on the other consoles I own.
SO he is a perfect fit here then, since you can say this of alot of people on the forum.
{insert code here}
Member
That massive PS4 install base is what happened. Factor in the bone picking up the scraps, there wasn't much left for th Wii U.
Kind of interesting that the big explosion of good Wii U indies mainly has been during the past 1.5 years then.
I'm from Japan and i bought... And finished! Really liked your game and the end twist for the second game was great. It was a pleasure.
Jawbreaker
Member
It all makes sense now!
Jarod McChicken
Member
A bit off-topic sorry, but I guess that's one more reason to trust the accuracy of SteamSpy ? Thanks for revealing the numbers and of course happy your game sold enough ^_^
LordOcidax
Member
Devs in this thread are saying that the situation is good (OP is wrong), and some of you insist that is not. Are you taking time to read the comments or just commenting without any base?
LupusWarrior
Neo Member
Another problem is having different games exclusive to different countries. Really grinds my gears
DownGrader
Member
I am still waiting for Wii U version of Secret Files: Tunguska to come out of Germany...
SaintMadeOfPlaster
Member
The issue isn't infrastructure at the moment. It's easy to publish a game on the eShop now, and being able to set your prices and do sales whenever you want puts them at about the same place as any other e-store.
The problem is that indie devs don't have a lot of resources/time, so they have to allocate it where they think it will count. Obviously there still isn't much of a market for most indie games on Nintendo platforms (there are exceptions of course), or else we'd see more games on it. I'm sure if the Wii U had sold better this wouldn't be a problem at all.
The Wii U base is MUCH smaller than the others. Only a fraction of them would be interested in buying an indie game. Only a fraction of THAT might buy the game you make. Why would you spend resources on that unless Nintendo was helping you out, which seems to be the case with most successful indie games on the eShop.
The problem is that indie devs don't have a lot of resources/time, so they have to allocate it where they think it will count. Obviously there still isn't much of a market for most indie games on Nintendo platforms (there are exceptions of course), or else we'd see more games on it. I'm sure if the Wii U had sold better this wouldn't be a problem at all.
The Wii U base is MUCH smaller than the others. Only a fraction of them would be interested in buying an indie game. Only a fraction of THAT might buy the game you make. Why would you spend resources on that unless Nintendo was helping you out, which seems to be the case with most successful indie games on the eShop.
ThatsMytrunks
Member
As a Wii U Indie Dev, my issue is that I had to pay out the nose for a Dev Kit whereas Microsoft sent me two without even asking what I needed. That and the sales on the Wii U haven't been inspiring.
neurosisxeno
Member
I'm reminded of that post about the group that released their indie game on all 3 consoles (XB1, PS4, WiiU) and it had a breakdown that showed it took as long to do the Wii U port as the XB1 and PS4 ports combined. I think although you can port to the Wii U, it's still really difficult, and the potential sales just aren't worth it. I'm sure there are a lot of people that love these Indie games, but I think a majority of Wii U owners don't bother with the eShop.
Though there are 3 things to keep in mind:
1. Same post also mentioned that not only Nintendo was the only one that put the game in the store front...twice, but that sales nearly equaled the sales of the other 2; even with considerably less userbase.
1a. Port was done by one person too. Wii U hardware is a bit...exotic, so straight ports can't be done. A recent post from an Assassin's Creed III dev also mentioned it. Said port was started by 2 people and maxed 15.
2. That in the end "nothing happened". OP admitted to not know many of the release past and upcoming. And said it wasn't intended to bash, but to ask.
And bonus mention:
FreezeME and Shadow Puppeteer will be released next week. BUY THEM PEOPLE!!
They are "learning" for two decades now, promising every time it will get better. Nothing ever comes out of it.
Better 3rd Party support? They were preaching that since the Game Cube days. Iwata especially was great at evaluating problems, but failed at solving them, and even repeated his mistakes.
neurosisxeno
Member
Nintendo is not only failing to learn, they are actively continuing terrible business practices. With the Wii U and 3DS they needed to just suck it up and develop a better online ecosystem to match XBL and PSN, but they completely failed to do that. They have needed decent third-party support for decades now, and continually release consoles that have bad development tools, or steep costs for developers to work on games. This is just bad business. Yea, their handhelds and games sell great, but their consoles are nearing Sega levels of badness.
You can do interesting and experimental things, but you need to have decent hardware, decent media playback, and decent pricing. Nintendo has failed to do all 3 of these things for the last 3 consoles--and some of them for the last 4 consoles. Their hardware has consistently been substantially weaker starting with the Wii, they are always using wacky proprietary crap to control costs in their favor and limiting additional functionality like Blu-Ray\DVD playback which drives people to other consoles, and they overpriced the Wii U and they refuse to lower the cost of their games after release which is just costing them sales at this point. That's not even addressing the fact that 3rd Party support is literally nonexistent on the Wii U at this point, and the Wii has the greatest collection of shovelware since the Atari.
I just bought a n3DS XL and looking at the release schedule isn't exactly inspiring. It's basically Fire Emblem and a mediocre FF Spin-Off for the next 3-6 months. Luckily the DS has a vast library and most of the games that interest me are already out. Which reminds me, why the hell are there no SNES VC games on the 3DS? Has Nintendo been completely ignoring their competitors? Sony has been doing PS games on PSN since early in the PS3 and is now working on PS2 titles for the PS4, and Microsoft is now patching in backwards compatibility for the Xbox One, while getting as many older titles as they can re-worked, re-released, or added in some capacity. Nintendo meanwhile is getting a handful of NES and GB games for their signature handheld, and the Wii U at least gets some SNES games, but the kicker is all of them are prices ridiculously.
Nintendo is so out of touch it's almost offensive.
If you're looking for indie games to play on the Wii U, feel free to take a look at some recommendations here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1172907
Their indie support is unambiguously, unquestionably better on 3DS/Wii U than it was on Wii/DSi and their Wii U initiatives in particular are absolutely on par with the other consoles.
Only if you exist in some alternate reality, really, when it comes to this topic.
You really should stop posting unverifiable nonsense like this. Especially when there are available counter examples with hard numbers, at the end of the day there are a lot of variables that define how well or not a title does.
I'm also a Wii U indie dev, and Nintendo sent me a devkit for free. I'm a developer with no formal game experience. Did that policy change?
https://wiiu-developers.nintendo.com
I know from some other indie devs on here that there are some sort of deals/discounts that can be had, but I didn't know about outright free unless there are different types of policies within the whole thing.
It's dependent on whether they have any loaner kits at the time you apply, basically.