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Wii U - No optical audio connector? Nintendo. Fix this!!
- Thread starter Fredrik
- Start date
I skimmed the thread and keep seeing this mentioned...but
you have to remember that every optical out of a tv, does not pass through surround sound. It converts it down to stereo or no audio at all. It is part of DRM. Optical out of a tv, is there for only outputting digital audio from cable, that is it. It is stupid.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/system-setup-connection/53290-optical-out-new-hdtv.html
So if you do not have a correct receiver, there is no way to use the surround sound. as far as I know.
It is lame there is no toslink option. This has been an issue since they first unveiled the wii u.
The audio data will be compressed on the disc, some proprietary Nintendo format (either lossless or lossy) - it's the developer's choice. At runtime, those are decompressed into main memory as raw data. That goes through the audio engine (various effects & channel processing).
From there, devs can choose what mode of output. PCM is about as clean and direct as it gets. DD5.1, TrueHD, DTS etc all require a further encoding step of the sound data before being sent out.
The Main Event
Member
It does actually, at least on my set. I own a Sony 60EX720, my satellite receiver and Apple TV are connected to the TV via HDMI, with the optical out to my Denon receiver successfully passing Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound when available.
Edit: However it might not work for the Wii U since it uses PCM only.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Initially not, but there will be plenty of people that get home and will be upset over this. There will be those on christmas morning not able to get surround sound because they didn't know.
But ultimately you are right, I don't think it will affect sales. It's just weird and cheap to me though.
If I am reading this correctly what is happening there is the cable box and Apple TV are sending the DD 5.1 and the TV is just passing it along because there is no bottleneck in bandwidth for 5.1 DD. With the Wii U 5.1 PCM (very large amount of bandwidth) will be sent via HDMI to the TV and bottlenecked into 2.0 PCM via optical to the receiver.
You know, it's 2012 if you can afford a decent home theatre setup then it can't be more then 5 years old, a timeframe which to the best of my knowledge had very few receivers that didn't have hdmi inputs and outputs. It's probably time to upgrade.
I mean I understand the frustration I really do- I want to upgrade to a 3dtv at some point and my 7.1 sound receiver doesn't do 3d pass through so there's really no easy solution outside of just saying screw it and buying a new receiver that DOES do 3d pass through. That should last me until 4K becomes a thing I guess....
I mean I understand the frustration I really do- I want to upgrade to a 3dtv at some point and my 7.1 sound receiver doesn't do 3d pass through so there's really no easy solution outside of just saying screw it and buying a new receiver that DOES do 3d pass through. That should last me until 4K becomes a thing I guess....
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Again most people have not invested in audio systems like you and I have. They purchased those All in one systems with the built in Blu Ray/DVD players and those typically (some do) don't come with HDMI inputs. So this isn't just people that haven't upgraded their systems in 10 years, this affects people that have upgraded even this year.
ah ok , I stand corrected then, because yeah that might be a bit of a piss off.
Nevermind that, who upgrades a receiver if they don't have to? Once you have surround that's it. I don't need anything bigger or better. Receivers are supposed to last 10-20 years. They always have. Why would I even consider dropping anything extra? For Nintendo? If Nintendo can't spare the $5 per console I can't spare $300. PS4 or Xbox3 it is.
And if Xbox3 charges for Live my choice has become exceptionally easy.
Well I suppose it is the majority of tv's will not pass through surround. Not sure how some tvs avoid the DRM audio regulation. I know there are some ways for peopel to bypass it with some hacking though.
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=126666
but I guess it doesn't matter if the wii u audio cant be carried over toslink regardless.
saveweyard
Banned
Reading through this whole thread was actually quite interesting, and I learned a lot. I've neglected learning about the audio-side of tech, mainly because I don't have the money for a nice setup as a broke college kid.
Very glad I read through all of this, now I feel I will be informed when I actually do decide to get a nice setup.
Very glad I read through all of this, now I feel I will be informed when I actually do decide to get a nice setup.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's relatively inexpensive to get a new, entry-to-mid level multichannel receiver for around 150-250 bucks, all of which have multiple HDMI inputs. Denon just recently introduced, for the first time ever, an entry-level line, and they are really, really good pieces of equipment.
edit: Caveat - a lot of those recievers with multiple HDMI inputs that can decode multichannel PCM, Dolby TrueHD and DTS? They only do 5.1, with the ability to add powered rear surrounds through coax connections later, should you wish to do so. If you want 7.1 or 9.1, you'll probably have to hop up to 300-600 range.
Of course, I know that people are going to be hesitant to upgrade when they can buy a 30-50 dollar box that will work as a stopgap measure, but on the audio end of things, it's gotten a lot cheaper to achieve full bitrate uncompressed surround, which up until like 4 or 5 years ago, was still considered a pretty big luxury.
I'm more than willing to bet not only will toslink outs be almost completely obsolete in a couple years, but that the majority of blu-ray players will ship without them in that same time period, and that the coming Xbox and Playstation will also not have them. Maybe they'll still have coax digital outs, but I would not be surprised if the toslink/optical cable input/outputs just go away.
edit: Caveat - a lot of those recievers with multiple HDMI inputs that can decode multichannel PCM, Dolby TrueHD and DTS? They only do 5.1, with the ability to add powered rear surrounds through coax connections later, should you wish to do so. If you want 7.1 or 9.1, you'll probably have to hop up to 300-600 range.
Of course, I know that people are going to be hesitant to upgrade when they can buy a 30-50 dollar box that will work as a stopgap measure, but on the audio end of things, it's gotten a lot cheaper to achieve full bitrate uncompressed surround, which up until like 4 or 5 years ago, was still considered a pretty big luxury.
I'm more than willing to bet not only will toslink outs be almost completely obsolete in a couple years, but that the majority of blu-ray players will ship without them in that same time period, and that the coming Xbox and Playstation will also not have them. Maybe they'll still have coax digital outs, but I would not be surprised if the toslink/optical cable input/outputs just go away.
no. I actually think you can just plug in while youre playing, on gamepad or not. Really one of the Wii U's underrated features
soulassssns
Banned
Time for you to upgrade your receiver.
UltimateIke
Member
Very nice if true!
Always-honest
Banned
There is nothing wrong with optical....
But yeah. I use hdmi though a receiver. Easy enough.
Projectjustice
Banned
Nintendo better put a RF adapter in there too!!!
Ruud_Luiten
Member
Nintendo be modern!!
Nintendo stop being so modern!!
I hate you nintendo
Nintendo stop being so modern!!
I hate you nintendo
It has much lower bandwidth then HDMI, so it can't do things like, say, PCM 5.1.
Input lag: I was under the impression that all AV Receivers add a very tiny amount of input-lag at least, even when simply passing through, hence I've always skipped the HDMI throughput on my receiver for consoles and fed the audio through it via optical. This seems to be the advice of HDTVTest, AVForums etc no matter which receiver you're using, so it sucks if we have to use HDMI through a receiver for the audio.
TheGreyHulk
Member
luckily my tv does hdmi to optical 5.1 for me!
UltimateIke
Member
Not lucky. The Wii U only outputs PCM 5.1, not Dolby Digital or DTS. Optical is only capable of carrying PCM 2.0 unless using a compressed format (such as DD or DTS).
Thread title should be updated.
Not lucky. The Wii U only outputs PCM 5.1 not Dolby Digital or DTS. Optical is only capable of carrying PCM 2.0.
Thread title should be updated.
Yeah the issue is a little broader in scope than just the lack of a built in toslink port. A thread title update would probably be a good idea.
Excuse me, but I already own a top-notch receiver. I bought it, when my other Sony ES receiver broke down. It just doesn't feature HDMI in. Why should I waste much money to get a worse receiver just so that the Wii U will work with it.
I will wait for someone to try out that HDMI switcher with TOSlink/Coax. But if the Wii U really outputs PCM 5.1 and not Dolby Digital 5.1/DTS 5.1, then I guess everyone with such a receiver is screwed. Perfect reason to not buy a Wii U. I mean if I don't get surround, it's going to suck. And I won't pay 600$+ for the Wii U (receiver included).
And my LED outputs stereo PCM on the optical out. It truly sucks. Especially because Wii U won't show movies, that would require DRM. It's games for god's sake.
I mean even by brand new BluRay standalone player has coax out (and my receiver supports that too).
That will still only yield stereo sound. This issue is about the Wii U being unable to output 5.1 audio over anything other than HDMI.
Teletraan1
Banned
Component is just stereo. Same as you will be getting with HDMI to your TV -> Optical Out to a receiver. The issue some people have is that there will be no Multichannel surround audio output unless you own an HDMI receiver or some sort of converter box that compresses DD5.1 or DTS on the fly for transport over optical. This is due to the WiiU only outputting LPCM sound. If it output DD5.1 through HDMI an adapter would be easy.
ColdBlooder
Banned
Will record through HDMI with my Live Gamer HD anyhow so i don´t care
I'm in the same boat. My brother used to work at a music shop and he snagged a £900 receiver at a cut down price of £300 because the box was damaged. It doesn't have support for HDMI but it sounds sublime. How much would I need to spend to replace it with a receiver of equivalent quality? Too much. I'm not going to spend £300+ just so I can play Wii U games in surround sound.
So, yeah, £199 Amazon pre-order cancelled. I'll consider picking up a Wii U further down the line if they decide to add an optical port.
Always-honest
Banned
Yeah, hdmi is better, don't get me wrong. But optical is fine. It's not like it sounds crappy.
This is where I'm at also. No Optical means the Wii-U is basically a no-buy for me at this point.
Always-honest
Banned
that sucks, but it's safe to say you will give yourself the best gift ever if you buy a receiver with mutiple hdmi ports... cause everything right now is HDMI, from the consoles, to laptops, ipads, phones, dslr's, etc.. I was in the same position. And although i think optical is fine, it's just not future proof in any way.
Teletraan1
Banned
I knew I was going to be coming into some money in October so I planned on a new PC build and I would have enough left over for a WiiU purchase but the more I found out about the system, these optical problems, no Ethernet port I soon realized I should probably put that money towards something else. Probably an HDMI receiver and then maybe pick up a WiiU at a later date when the Nintendo software I like hits.
Always-honest
Banned
yeah it sucks that we have to upgrade our shit once in a while. They keep coming up with new connectors for that very reason i think. HDMI will be replaced one day.. but HDMI will be fine for at least a decade i think.
Theonik
Member
It all boils down to royalties and draconian DRM really. They don't want to let you get 5.1 outside HDMI and some manufacturers are also doing it because of royalties. As for the second point they already offer analog outs in addition to optical. As to why not use just that the answer is quite simple. When there are no royalties involved those TVs will output DD from their Digital TV tuners as needed and you need optical for that, they can't pass through because of DRM concerns, and in addition to that consumers demand that feature to be there. (saving on cables, sounding better than the internal hardware of the TV etc)
Besides this is all moot since the WiiU won't do DD through HDMI.
You can't live-encode DTSHDMA or DTHD and the WiiU doesn't support Blu-Ray movies so it's a waste of a licensing fee. When Nintendo is already quite stingy as shown by this move.
Fat PS3s will output LPCM, DTS and DD through their optical and HDMI outs. (BDs get decoded to 5.1 or 7.1 LPCM) PS3 Slims will do the same but also give the option of bitstreaming DTSHDMA and DTHD.
BDs that contain Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD can get converted to regular Dolby Digital + regular DTS and both of those can be sent over TOSlink/Coax. Just like when using a standalone BluRay player. Actually DTS-HD contains a regular DTS stream, so that will just get sent. I'm not sure, if the same happens using a TrueHD audio track or if those are downmixed.
It's lame that there's no optical out, but you can always get this:
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/1080p-4-port-hdmi-input-to-hdmi-optical-coaxial-audio-output-converter-100-240v-ac-16553
... where's input 1?
Not sure whether to go for a widget like that or a full HDMI reciever. I'm pretty much out of HDMI sockets on the telly as it stands - five devices that I regularly use using HDMI, four sockets, so I've been doing a lot of swapping as appropriate. A new reciever with a good pile of sockets would be delightful, although I dread the actual process of swapping over, since it's a minefield of cables back there... six speakers, two optical ins, one coax in (!), plus a whole bunch of basic L/R audio cables for my older stuff.
Palette Swap
Member
I have a receiver I bought 6 years ago I'm perfectly happy with and at this point every piece of A/V hardware except for the Wii U will work with it. Why would I want to shell out another receiver because one manufacturer can't be arsed to support one of the same baseline codecs everyone else does?
UltimateIke
Member
On the front.
From the discussion in the thread, the consensus is these devices won't give the Wii U 5.1 over optical. You need an HDMI receiver.
Yeah I've thought briefly about upgrading my receiver before, but then its been servicing my needs just fine. To do it now with the added cost of of the Wii-U turns the whole thing into an expensive little affair. Given the option I would stream many of the games to the pad which I assume has its own speakers/audio output? It might not be such a biggie. That is until the next Galaxy game comes along with those blistering musical scores!
To Richer Sounds, then!
Canis lupus
Member
Cmon Nintendo, optical audio is a must, how else would I use my expensive surround set?
Palette Swap
Member
Depends if those device reencode the audio to a signal that will fit within the TOSLINK bandwidth limitations (which is the issue here).
I'm not an expert but wouldn't it be possible to deliver the 6 channels of LPCM signal over 6 analog RCA cables plugged on 6 analog inputs on the receiver's end?
Same here. I have everything connected that way, my iMac, Xbox 360 and PS3. Now I can only get stereo from the WiiU ugh...
UltimateIke
Member
That would be a way a receiver could be designed, but I don't know of any receivers where six analog inputs are active at the same time and each designated for a different speaker. Nor do I know of any devices that output over six analog connectors. Maybe they exist though? One HDMI cable sure is easier. :/
As an aside, PCs typically use three 3.5mm stereo connectors to output 5.1 PCM. Four for 7.1.