Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Yet it still supports RCA hookup (introduced in the 1940's)
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Wii U - No optical audio connector? Nintendo. Fix this!!
- Thread starter Fredrik
- Start date
Yet it still supports RCA hookup (introduced in the 1940's)
Then you are lucky, because for PS3+360 it works. Although at least for PS3 one could simply use an optical cable (I do). But Wii U doesn't output Dolby Digital 5.1 It outputs LPCM 5.1.
Which means you will get LPCM 2.0 out, which is plain stereo.
That's the actual problem everyone in here is talking about.
viewtiful_dru
Member
wow that is pure ass
did they not want to pay the royalties to include the Dolby encoding libs in the SDK?
did they not want to pay the royalties to include the Dolby encoding libs in the SDK?
It still won't work, what your TV does is just a pass through. WiiU doesn't support DD5.1 so your TV can't pass through DD5.1 because the input signal is not DD5.1. No TV does signal conversion.
Lowest common denominator. Also, it's sufficiently easy and basically free to implement.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Sounds like something else we have been talking about here.
Palette Swap
Member
That's the working theory.
That doesn't wash when the console doesn't support 7.1. Let's not pretend this is some 'bleeding edge only' decision. It's the usual penny-pinching bullshit.
I'm gobsmacked. I have an HDMI capable amp that eats through formats the Wii-U couldn't dream of* but I'm not the average Nintendo customer.
*Yet the PS3 (2006) happily supports.
You mean like toslink and DD5.1?
Take a step back and look at what you're supporting here.
Is optical/coax not the lowest common denominator for 5.1? Also sub $50 DVD players support optical so how expensive could it possibly be to put it in?
I guess the actual problem was the Dolby Digital/DTS encoder. Which would cost Nintendo monies.
DVD players just have to support Dolby Digital/DTS. But Nintendo would have to actually encode Dolby Digital/DTS unlike a DVD player.
UltimateIke
Member
They have to support it whether they want to or not, as part of the DVD standard. Not to say your point is wrong.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Not that much. $30 DVD players support Optical and DD and have enough margin for retail stores to still get $5-6 in margin.
While I was expecting it anyway, I guess that doubly-confirms no DVD playback!
Personally, I'm okay with it for myself - I probably need to think about upgrading my reciever anyway - but it's shitty for others.
Teletraan1
Banned
I was thinking about this a bit more. Wonder if there is a way to leverage that DSP we keep hearing about or CPU with no real system impact to do a real time encode and sell an optical dongle that also charges you for the DD5.1 license. Like the OG XBOX DVD remote. The firmware sound option doesn't come up unless you have the dongle. Probably Pie in the sky, impossible and not worth their time but I wonder if that would actually work because it lets them be cheap and make money at the same time while accommodating fans of their products.
Theonik
Member
Both DTHD and DTSHDMA are re-constructive lossless formats so yes, they both have a lossy core that will be sent instead through TOSLINK. I meant to note that the fat could only bitstream the lossy core component of either. (incidentally re-constructive lossless audio is pretty inefficient especially in DTS since you have a 1411kbps core at any time.
I would guess they would just stream AAC or something like that and then the WiiU would output as LPCM. alternatively the streeaming app might be able to decode and the royalty cost paid by them. (the WiiU will still output LPCM in either case)
The Elite
BOSS
I have a receiver with HDMI but it doesn't support audio.
Some people have the strange belief that you should buy new home audio every 18 months just like the fools out there that do that with their cellphones.
test_account
XP-39C²
I see what you mean. I know about this, but i was thinking if a soundsystem only have HDMI in and not out. I'm not sure if this is common though. But in that case, you would need one HDMI to the sound system and one HDMI to the TV, directly from the console itself (unless some sort of an adapter is possible).
I haven't wanted to upgrade either the receiver or the speakers in my existing HTIB.
I'm willing to drop $350 on a HTIB, but I'm not willing to drop $400 on a receiver, $xxx on speakers, and $xx on a BluRay player. Yes, it's more flexible and I can get better quality speakers, but it's just not worth the price to me, especially at the rate.
The other one I was considering is the Onkyo HT-S5500 http://amzn.com/B0077V88ZE .
I don't know if I'd connect it as 7.1, and I don't think I'd miss the network features and shitty "apps" the Samsung has. The extra HDMI ports would be a plus, though I'd still be 1 port shy of what I need (Cable box, PC, 360, PS3, Wii U). I also don't like the lack of a BluRay player, but I have the PC and the PS3, and the 720 and PS4 will certainly play BluRays.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Don't think so... these discussions just pop up occasionally and devolve into elitists (myself included) telling everyone their stuff sucks.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Agreed, a lot of people use surround headphones.
Mitsurux
Member
Same situation here... so i require a "scondary" audio out put option from my consoles
PS3 and 360 both take this in to acount with the ability to use RCA, or Optical.... and it looks like it would be worked around with the WiiU by using the multi-out connectors Audio connection... but it looks like a loss in quality in inevitable
You're wrong, the DSP does output eight channels ("7.1"): Two of those channels are sent to the GamePad, the other six over HDMI. Also, the tech is always the same. Doesn't matter if it's mono or 7.1.
And those "formats the Wii U couldn't dream of" are all pretty much useless if you have LPCM. The PS3 supports them because it has to. Because it's a Blu-ray player.
DD and TOSLINK are currently in the process of dying out. People are switching to HDMI right now. You apparently already did, so you should actually know what I'm talking about. Considering the cost and complexity involved to support those legacy technologies, it makes perfect sense to skip that stuff altogether if possible. That shit is lossy for god's sake - it's the 480p of audio. RCA on the other hand will still be around when people have long forgotten what TOSLINK even was.
I find that really, really hard to believe and completely mental if true. However, there is still the AV Jack on the back of the thing so I'm hoping it still support Dolby Pro Logic II *at least* like the Wii did.
Do all TV's that have HDMI actually support LPCM?
Does HDMI have a standard set of protocols that have to be supported?
Answers to these two questions could help calm things down a bit for those that are wanting Wii U-> TV -> Optical to receiver....or not
EDIT: From Wikipedia: "For digital audio, if an HDMI device supports audio, it is required to support the baseline format: stereo (uncompressed) PCM". So, I guess it's still up in the air. We need to wait for confirmation from Nintendo as to what formats they will output on HDMI, and also what their AV cable will support.
Still 5.1 on receiver side. I got an actual 7.1 speaker setup. 2 of those speakers won't get any workout. And I see quite a few 7.1 games on PS3. What a shame. Ah, I get those 2 channels on the GamePad. Well that changes everything. Oh no, it doesn't.
Oh really
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004P15HD0/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Brand new 300$ headphones, but whoops, not working with Wii U, because fuck the consumer.
Some people, that buy receivers NOW, are forced into HDMI and that's primarily because of the DRM bullcrap. Still there are many people out there that own receivers without HDMI in. Brand-new blu-ray players come with coax and/or TOSlink. There is no excuse for this.
There are brand-new blu-ray players right now for 70EUR, that include at least coax out.
Yeah, screw the consumer. The consumer should just buy a new receiver, because fuck him. Oh well, the consumer could just say fuck Wii U and not buy it. I surely won't, unless there is some way of getting surround sound with my current equipment out of it. I would effectively downgrade from Wii. I would get fucking Stereo. And I surely won't pay 1000$+ for the Wii U, just so that I get surround sound - surround sound that I already get using my PS3, Wii, Gamecube and PS2. Thank you very much.
So you can hear a difference between fullbitrate DTS and lossless audio?
And I thought most people couldn't even tell the difference between 128kbps MP3 and 192kbps MP3. I can tell the difference between the latter. But I definitely can't tell the difference between the former. Congrats, if you are capable of doing so.
GOD DAMN IT
Wii U + Last day of tax-free Amazon means I am powerless to resist buying shit I don't really need.
The 8800 GTX in the PC by the TV doesn't support audio over HDMI.
The surge protector will replace 2 existing surge protectors (6 and 8 slots each).
Anyone wanna buy an 8800 GTX and a Samsung 5.1 HTIB (DVD, optical in)?
Wii U + Last day of tax-free Amazon means I am powerless to resist buying shit I don't really need.
The 8800 GTX in the PC by the TV doesn't support audio over HDMI.
The surge protector will replace 2 existing surge protectors (6 and 8 slots each).
Anyone wanna buy an 8800 GTX and a Samsung 5.1 HTIB (DVD, optical in)?
GoldenEye 007
Member
If HDMI is the new wonder connecter and was such a big deal all these years ago for the HD audio and video eras, why isn't it standard now on equipment? It is on the visual and auxiliary aspects of the home entertainment. Why isn't the audio side of the industry including HDMI as standard on new receivers. Isn't that bad for consumers also to not include an HDMI option on the part of audio companies?
I mean, if I were shopping for new receivers, I certainly would not consider one without HDMI at this point. Heck my LG phone from like 2010 has a mini-HDMI connection.
Not that I have anything against optical, of course. Sucks for some people it wasn't included.
I mean, if I were shopping for new receivers, I certainly would not consider one without HDMI at this point. Heck my LG phone from like 2010 has a mini-HDMI connection.
Not that I have anything against optical, of course. Sucks for some people it wasn't included.
More like "upgrade when Nintendo tells me to".
As we lead up to Wii U's launch and we see more complaints about this I'd bet the number of people who defend this and at some point during the Wii's life cycle argued against the importance of HD support will be pretty high.
I can't see them NOT doing an adapter of some sort. People don't replace their receivers very often.
On the other hand I can see how they didn't include it because they will assume that all HD TV's pretty much have it and most people will be hooking Wii U up to a TV and not a receiver anyway.
On the other hand I can see how they didn't include it because they will assume that all HD TV's pretty much have it and most people will be hooking Wii U up to a TV and not a receiver anyway.
The Dutch Slayer
Member
we knew about this since E3 2011.
Its not going to change.
Its not going to change.
HDMI is the standard, and has been for some time.
It is included, and has been for some time.
The only people who have any legitimate complaint are those that use "5.1" headphones that use an optical connector. Their beef should be with their headphone manufacturer for not providing an HDMI connection, either on the headphone or a receiver base.
TOSLINK was dead the instant we moved past 5.1 LPCM bitrates and started using encrypted audio. Shitty, but inevitable.
Honestly I think it's pretty safe to assume it won't have any sort of DD support other than maybe a pro logic branding like the Wii. They haven't gone out of their way to list it as a supported format in the spec sheet. Considering that it's also not billing itself as a DVD or Blu-Ray player the company probably sees it as being a completely unnecessary feature.
Like The Dutch Slayer said, we've known about the issue for a while.
I'm sure they support a bunch of shit since they're going to be integrating Hulu Plus, Netflix, Amazon, etc. into Nintendo TVii. Whether or not the Wii outputs LPCM or Dolby DTS, who knows? If the Nintendo TVii application wants to inject sound effects over the DD/DTS audio (for menus, notifications, etc.) it receives, then it would have to have a live DD/DTS encoder. If they used LPCM out, they wouldn't have to have a lie encoder.
On the other hand, any sound effects could just be piped solely through the Gamepad, leaving the DD/DTS to pass through HDMI unmolested.
No idea if any streaming services actually use DD/DTS though. I would assume they all use AAC.
It's not just the "DRM bullcrap", it's also plain better, more convenient and ultimately much cheaper.
Don't get me wrong, I understand if some people are miffed because they don't want to upgrade their receivers or because the headphone makers don't go with the times, but that doesn't change the trend towards HDMI. And I think you should understand that, while it would cost you and an ever decreasing, but still significant number of people hundreds of dollars to upgrade to a LPCM capable setup (something you'll eventually do anyway I guess), it would cost Nintendo tens of millions of dollars to make just a handful (in the grand scheme of things) of gamers happy. The money required for this is probably more efficiently spent elsewhere - on marketing, or to produce a few more games, or simply to raise the dividends a little and make the shareholders happy.
And by the way: Manufacturers of Blu-ray players support S/PDIF because they have to, not because they want to.
Teletraan1
Banned
Why do Bluray manufacturers have to support S/PDIF? I thought it was only a handful of people that have this issue. Wouldn't it also make sense for $50 bluray players to spend money on marketing. Or do we only value Nintendo's bottom line over our own.
brochiller
Member
Can someone please inform me, what methods WILL work to get surround sound?
Have a receiver that supports audio via HDMI
Blu-ray and DVD players have to support what the standards say. It's that simple. It's a set of rules they have to follow, and one of them is to include a S/PDIF connector.
Comparing Blu-ray players to consoles in that regard isn't all that useful, anyway. Interactive realtime DD audio isn't exactly the same as playing a video file. To do that, you also need a DD encoder - so either a more complex, more expensive DSP, or a software solution like Dolby Digital Live and some CPU cycles that will then be missing elsewhere.
And I don't expect you to value Nintendo's bottom line. But I expect you to understand that Nintendo and Nintendo's shareholders value their bottom line. You don't have to like it, but that's just the way it is.
brochiller
Member
Wtf. So HDMI through TV and then optical out to my surround sound won't work?
No, you'll get 2.0 PCM. You must think of Nintendo's bottom line.
brochiller
Member
How about my bottom line Nintendo?
So what's a good, relatively inexpensive receiver that would do the trick?
Theonik
Member
This is irrelevant, the point is meant to illustrate that implementing it is very very cheap and Nintendo is literally pinching pennies at their consumer's expense. Now in the grand scheme of things the cost does build up, however I think you are grossly underestimating the number of consumers still using TOSLINK to get surround sound. Hell I'd bet more than 50% of them do. (this is based on the fact that people for the most part purchase integrated surround sound solutions and those will usually have only TOSLINK inputs for external hardware, as well as a general reluctance for consumers to upgrade receivers, which is much slower than it was with HDTVs, even which to the average consumer were bought because of size, not being HD)
Dark-Cloudz
Member
It's lame that there's no optical out, but you can always get this:
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/1080p-4-port-hdmi-input-to-hdmi-optical-coaxial-audio-output-converter-100-240v-ac-16553
I already use something like this - so problem solved.
DVI did all the stuff HDMI does, but without HDCP (except integrated audio, which I don't consider "better" or "convenient". My receiver + LED are not at the same place. My Bluray player is right at my LED, which would mean that if I used HDMI for audio, I would have to use a long HDMI cable just to get to my receiver and then get another long HDMI cable to get back to my LED). Calling it "plain better, more conventient and ultimately much cheaper" is just wrong. HDCP is not useful for the consumer. In fact it may create issues. For example, if you get a 1 bit off error somewhere, that isn't a problem when using DVI. When using HDMI, such error would mean having no picture at all for 2-3 seconds because of HDCP. And I won't even start with potential handshake errors thanks to HDCP. Which means it either works the same as DVI or it may create additional issues. There is no advantage at all.
Saying HDCP would be "convenient" is like saying always-on-DRM is "convenient". DRM has no use for the consumer.
I will do that, when my receiver breaks down. Which could take 10-15 years.
Oh right. Unless too many don't own a HDMI in receiver / have the audacity to own surround headphones and will not buy the Wii U, because of that.
I'm already waiting for consumer complaints a la "I bought a Wii U and now I can't get surround sound using my brand new headphones or my receiver. Wii U sucks."
I wouldn't have a problem, if this was 10 years in the future. But it's not. This is like releasing PS3 with HDMI only in 2006.
and for good reason. Not to screw the consumer.
I mean tell me why almost all BluRays even nowadays contain Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD. Why doesn't everyone simply release LPCM BluRays? Some movies were even released containing LPCM 5.1 (for example Memento) and were then re-released using DTS-HD and without LPCM? Maybe because they didn't sell well?
Why did so many people complain about Orange Box on PS3 not having "surround sound", although it actually had surround sound. It just had LPCM 5.1 only, which meant most people weren't able to get it working.
It won't help in this case. NOONE would complain, if a switcher would help.
Wii U outputs LPCM 5.1. You can't send that on optical or coax. Which means using a switcher will get you LPCM 2.0 aka stereo.
I do most of my gaming thru headphones, and those are hooked up thru optical. I have no problems with the PS3 or 360 doing this and its one of the reasons I did not get a Wii, now Nintendo is making the decision for me again not to get a Wii U.
I watch movies, everything with headphones. I live in a studio and frankly they sound better than any system I owned. Boo to you Nintendo for leaving out a simple feature.
I watch movies, everything with headphones. I live in a studio and frankly they sound better than any system I owned. Boo to you Nintendo for leaving out a simple feature.
No, it won't work.