this thread is so lively again
I'd take current gen in 1080p with stable framerates, tbh.
So hearing it's even "2x stronger" is good enough for me.
Rösti;35524027 said:First of all, nice contribute, IdeaMan, and welcome to the boards. While we've heard of similar details about the system before, your post certainly reinstates belief in Wii U being stronger than Xbox 360 regarding hardware, so thank you.
Furthermore, someone mentioned bingo:
Template: http://www.abload.de/img/bingo_template_gdcn1dot.png
It's just some parts that "look 5x" on paper.
Can you confirm that all elements are indeed more powerful though? They might seem faster on paper, but are they all at least 1:1?I must stress that i've said some components are 4x/5x more powerful, more in quantity, than on the xbox360, not all of them. (Again, from what i know, read all this with caution).
So don't multiply the CPU cores/frequency/cache/IPS - the special memory like Edram - the Memory type/quantity/bandwidth/latency - the GPU type/frequency/flops by 5x. It's just some of these parts that "look 5x" on paper.
2x is again exactly what we got from earlier devkit information... The RV770LE in earlier devkits, if it was true at all, did slightly over 2x the performance (~2.3x) of the Xenos chip. If you downclock an HD7770 (just as an example because it represents current AMD tech) to the Xenos clock rate of 500 MHz, you get exactly double the performance in many areas simply because it has double the capacity in terms of texture units and render output units. Furthermore, it could vastly outperform Xenos in shading power, by simply having much more (HD7770 has 3-3.5 amount of shaders) and being a more efficient architecture. Which explains this "4-5x" figure.
What puzzles me is that Arkam claims indicating the devkit was less powerful than the Xbox. If Nintendo uses a chip like that, it should be obvious to anybody that it makes itself a decent gap when compared to the 360. It seems to suggest that something else was used in the devkit, likely a Redwood or Turks GPU (which improve in shader performance over Xenos, but not much in other areas). After all the rumours we've heard I would be very disappointed if Nintendo went for such a low end chip. If Nintendo would go to lengths to customize a chip based on new technology, solely benchmarked by a seven-year old GPU, then we can definitely conclude that they stopped caring about power.
(Near) 5x in shading power/shader processors seems by far the most likely here. Slightly over 2x theoretical performance for the rest of the GPU. It fits with earlier rumours.I must stress that i've said some components are 4x/5x more powerful, more in quantity, than on the xbox360, not all of them. (Again, from what i know, read all this with caution).
So don't multiply the CPU cores/frequency/cache/IPS - the special memory like Edram - the Memory type/quantity/bandwidth/latency - the GPU type/frequency/flops by 5x. It's just some of these parts that "look 5x" on paper.
Decent features but lack of teeth could also mean a horribly downclocked or otherwise compromised RV770LE to me.It also makes perfect sense with what Arkam said about a GPU that has decent features but no teeth, that's exactly how I would describe turks.
5x in shading power seems by far the most likely here. Slightly over 2x theoretical performance for the rest of the GPU. It fits with earlier rumours.
Wow, I'm impressed...a lot of posts over the week-end.
But nothing really happened or?
New leaks?
BTW want to summarize some things (if you look on paper/specs only - not how complicated it was to code for them):
NES was a great piece of hardware but Master System was stronger
SNES oh I loved that machine (dreaming) but Mega Drive was stronger, Nintendo tried to compensate it releasing the super FX-chip later (very good one)
N64 (the last console that deserve to call itself CONSOLE imo (cartridges))was on paper the most powerful
Gamecube was stronger than PS2 and maybe on par with xbox.
Wii...we all know it was superior in Multiplayer/Party-gaming
Wii u hmm, imo will be on par with both other consoles, you will see...
What are some people fearing here?
Dont get it at all, even that some are saying Wii u is weak and doomed...
Be aware, Nintendo will surprise us all!!
If not (on paper) with the strongest HW it will be once again with great games and gameplay!
What will each of the next gen plats provide us with??
RIGHT 720 or 1080p!!
The differences will be really small does it really matter if one multiplat-title have a character on console 1 with 1000 details on console 2 with 1015 details and on console 3 with 1020 details?
I dont think so.
Games/consoles are about fun and I'm sure the Wii U will provide that.
I really hope that it will be possible with that controller to play a game on the big screen and to stream my favorite soccer match to the controller!!
That would be awesome!!
I might be a bit out of the loop, but is there a reason some of you seem to be expecting news out of GDC? Or just wishful thinking?
I know Nintendo occasionally lets slip new details at GDC, but it's usually during keynotes, of which this year Iwata/Miyamoto/Reggie/Nintendo have none. Outside of this their GDC presence is usually minimal at best.
There's always a chance engine technology will show up, but I'd expect that stuff to be shown behind closed doors, as Nintendo appears dead set on keeping cards close to their chest until E3. We all know what the Nintendo ninjas are like, so I don't really expect many, if any leaks, and honestly nothing at all official.
Unless I missed something?
If Reggie was talking to some kids outside the headquarters during a break, people would make Bingo cards.
This is why Nintendo non-news is better than anyone else's non-news.
(Near) 5x in shading power/shader processors seems by far the most likely here. Slightly over 2x theoretical performance for the rest of the GPU. It fits with earlier rumours.
I might be a bit out of the loop, but is there a reason some of you seem to be expecting news out of GDC? Or just wishful thinking?
I know Nintendo occasionally lets slip new details at GDC, but it's usually during keynotes, of which this year Iwata/Miyamoto/Reggie/Nintendo have none. Outside of this their GDC presence is usually minimal at best.
There's always a chance engine technology will show up, but I'd expect that stuff to be shown behind closed doors, as Nintendo appears dead set on keeping cards close to their chest until E3. We all know what the Nintendo ninjas are like, so I don't really expect many, if any leaks, and honestly nothing at all official.
Unless I missed something?
I think I'll just re-use my E3 2011 bingo card then .
Good point, lherre has hinted at "more than 2GB" in the devkit. Which would be double of the retail unit. 640 or 800 SPUs are not really 5 times the 240 SPUs of Xenos, although they may perform as such eventually.I would say memory is more likely, 4-5 would net you 2-2.5 GB seems a little high at first, but DevKit's usually have more memory then the final console due to debugging.
Yeah, just save the 2x bigger card for E3.
Can you imagine what will be on that one????
In fact, I am not sure the next E3 is going to be long enough for the amount of content Nintendo will be showing.
Then again, I am totally inflating how much they have to show probably.
Based on what IdeaMan is saying, I'm expecting a jump similar to the PS3 version of Battlefield 3 compared to the maxed out version on PC.
Things improved includes hi-res textures, tons of geometry, better lighting, effects, and AA. If the Wii U can produce that on average, than I think we're all going to be very happy.
The thing is, playing just the PS3 or Xbox version, most gamers will just get use to the way it looks. But once you play the PC version on Max, you can't go back to playing the PS3 and Xbox version.
They seem to have really streamlined their presentations within the last year. They've tended to be game after game after game with announcements and footage progressing at a really brisk pace. I hope they keep using that model for their E3 presser.
Are the odds of them having a price of the system at E3 low????
I would think it'd be all about games and the price a month or two later.
I want to ask: has IdeaMan been "verified" with our mods?
(we asked the same of someone else, so I want to be fair here.)
Rösti;35524770 said:EatChildren, I made a list a few pages back regarding the news that have come from GDC both when Nintendo has had a keynote there and when they haven't: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35415514&postcount=10358
Also, the time seems right now for them to start talking. Reggie said in interviews with CNN and GameTrailers in conjunction with CES in January that they would share more information between then and E3. It may have been just shallow PR talk, but people are eager to find out more. You can also refer to this post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35066014&postcount=6705
Rösti;35524770 said:EatChildren, I made a list a few pages back regarding the news that have come from GDC both when Nintendo has had a keynote there and when they haven't: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35415514&postcount=10358
Also, the time seems right now for them to start talking. Reggie said in interviews with CNN and GameTrailers in conjunction with CES in January that they would share more information between then and E3. It may have been just shallow PR talk, but people are eager to find out more. You can also refer to this post: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35066014&postcount=6705
I keep on changing my mind on when I want it to happen. October would be welcome, but I do not want to go through a launch in the middle of a move from apartment to house.I think it's gonna depend on when they launch the console. If it's the traditional November launch, they'll probably announce the price during a September or October press conference. If it's earlier, like some are speculating, I think there's a chance we might here it at E3.
Nintendo is unpredictable.
In that case, he's very much a-OK in my book! I likey!He has been confirmed to be legit.
He's Sascha Baron Cohen.
Can you confirm that all elements are indeed more powerful though? They might seem faster on paper, but are they all at least 1:1?
yeah, I don't really understand them basing the gpu around a 6670, but a custom part can easily achieve a much higher performance level, so maybe it had something it was targeting, and yes those are my same flop estimates, though I tend to think that they started a little bit lower and worked up around the max at the end... it will be very interesting, because if microsoft puts out an HD tablet controller, the difference in performance could be completely nil or even in Wii U's favor.
I want to ask: has IdeaMan been "verified" with our mods?
(we asked the same of someone else, so I want to be fair here.)
Also, Nintendo really needs a graphical vehicle game to showcase at E3. Something that people can look at and immediately say "Wow, this isn't possible on current systems at all".
For that, I'm hoping they utilize one of their best developers, Retro Studio. Retro has the knowledge and know how to truly wow us. Either something sci-fi or fantasy based, Retro can truly pull off something amazing.
Well he didn't claim to work for a developer so I see that as being the difference.
Also, Nintendo really needs a graphical vehicle game to showcase at E3. Something that people can look at and immediately say "Wow, this isn't possible on current systems at all".
For that, I'm hoping they utilize one of their best developers, Retro Studio. Retro has the knowledge and know how to truly wow us. Either something sci-fi or fantasy based, Retro can truly pull off something amazing.
I'd bet cold hard cash that retro will have something to show at E3. they've been ramping up development on something for months now, I think we'll at least get a title.
I would say memory is more likely, 4-5 would net you 2-2.5 GB seems a little high at first, but DevKit's usually have more memory then the final console due to debugging.
True. I'm trying to approach everything with a level head, but overlooked this very hastily.
I like what he's saying. It'd be very encouraging.
Still convinced they're Espresso and Cappuccino.Perhaps Iwata will mention the codenames of the CPU and GPU at GDC.
I'm still unconvinced about one very specific detail. But whatever.IMO the only problem with what Arkam said was that he blamed the hardware for their issue and was rather negative in context when talking about it. Other than that his info was rather legit.
I don't see why he would be comparing the WiiU dev kit to a retail XBox 360. That wouldn't be a good comparison and he seems quite level headed from his posts (any comment Ideaman?).
Its possible that the 4-5x component is RAM of course, with WiiU having 2GB + extra eDram (as in the WiiU dev kit has 4GB RAM + eDram). But personally I'm with DCking in thinking that its likely the number of shader ops that are 4-5 times 360. 800 SPU's at 600Mhz would give that kind of shader performance.