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Wii U US November Sales Estimated at 149K by Pachter

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wii u after 7 years could still pull off 30-35 million if starts going up from here. I think people should give them another year before they judge anything.

OK. For all you "it's a marathon, not a sprint" types...you are simply wrong.

Right now, Nintendo needs to start sprinting their ass off.

Consider this: Your brick-and-mortar retailers. If this number is the number, and not even including Amazon or any online sales, (So the "total sales" number could be 10-20% higher and still we're looking at the same situation) that would mean among the approx. 14,000 stores of the major game retailers (GameStop, Walmart, Target, K-Mart, Best Buy, Toys-r-Us, Sam's, Costco) each store would be averaging only one WiiU console sale every three days. In fucking November.

How long do you think these retailers will devote shelf/display space to a product that is already a low-margin item by nature, (all consoles are for retailers) when the sales volume is so utterly abysmal, even in November?

The answer is: Not very long. Retailers have a tendency to bail on products like that.

You can talk about marathons all you want, but if these are even close to the real November number...Nintendo's going to run out of road for the WiiU to run on.

But like I said before, even if Pachter is wrong by 1/2...it's still one-foot-in-the-grave kinda news.
 
Guess everyones conveniently forgetting the fact that these are estimates. Pachter estimates.

Exactly. And this wouldn't be gaf without most everyone tripping out and screaming Nintendo is dead.


The sad thing is... It's a great system and the controller works well. It's a nice alternative not worrying about all the online stuff and I can just turn it on and play a good solid single player game. To bad they didn't just call it something else an give it just a tad more power from the get go.
 
Even if they released a new console what do we hace to look forward to Mario and Zelda again? Great games but I think we're reaching franchise fatigue...

I don't know how you can keep a straight face while saying this with a Resident Evil avatar. SM3DW and ALBW are going to find spots in so many GOTY lists very soon. I don't think it's franchise fatigue when the games are that good.

We really should just wait for the real numbers.
 
Exactly. And this wouldn't be gaf without most everyone tripping out and screaming Nintendo is dead.


The sad thing is... It's a great system and the controller works well. It's a nice alternative not worrying about all the online stuff and I can just turn it on and play a good solid single player game. To bad they didn't just call it something else an give it just a tad more power from the get go.
Sorry, but I have to call out your agreement with that terrible post. If people can't be bothered to read the thread, nintendo's own sales goals and projections, or any of the repeated dismantlings of any of these pro Nintendo tropes, then they (you) should just not comment.
 
I saw an ad of Wii U where they called it the Wii. On national television...




I thought I heard that also and I am pretty sure I heard them say "upgrade" once or twice. I think they are still making it sound like an upgrade for Wii or an add-on.


If those sales are factual, then.....wow. I don't know what to say. I am not even sure a price drop to $200 with their AAA games will turn things around.
 
We need an updated one of these

atv.gif
 
That's my opinion. The graphical leap this gen isn't amazing and isn't going to add much to games except in Open World settings. My opinion is that we don't need a new set of consoles to advance gameplay much. It's all about shiny, nice looking shit though, so I digress.

How much farther you think the PS3/360 would have gotten in, let's say, 3 years from now?
 
That's my opinion. The graphical leap this gen isn't amazing and isn't going to add much to games except in Open World settings. My opinion is that we don't need a new set of consoles to advance gameplay much. It's all about shiny, nice looking shit though, so I digress.
well I guess it's puzzling then why nintendo made a wii u at all.
 
Wake me up when Nintendo conceives of a sandbox game with online enabled functions where other people can change your gameworld. My point was that Nintendo never goes outside of its comfort zone so they are continuously refining game concepts that originated in the the 90ies or earlier. It's great that there's a company that makes a super polished game like Super Mario World 3D when other companies don't think there's a market for platformers, but it's not innovative.

There is a difference from being innovative, and making a very specific type of game that you clamor for here. Mario 3D World is innovative in a lot of ways, first and foremost, is it the first 3D plattformer that does multiplayer right. It might not be the innovation you are looking for, but its still innovation. And then there are tons of innovation in level design that you need to play yourself to appreciate. Outside of the known franchises, there is also stuff like Wonderful101 that feels really different, and while Pikmin3 wasnt really innovative, it was still incredibly fresh considering how few games of this type that gets made. Nintendo is both going out of its comfort zone and being incredibly innovative and unique with their games all the times. Unfortunately, most of those innovations come in old franchises, meaning they have less impact than something completely new like Tearaway.
 
The Sega Saturn sold 96K in November 1996...that was its best November throughout its entire lifespan.

I remember when my Saturn got depressed and sank into the Swamp of Sadness, still scars me to this day. Still amazed that monstrosity of design beat the N64 in Japan. I know it happened. I understand WHY it happened, and it still doesn't seem real.

I also thought it was rather telling when Geoff/Joel were grilling Reggie on the VGX on Mario/WiiU sales. He was hardly enthusiastic or sounded promising. Reggie doing his usually skirting around the "issue".

Poor Reggie looks like he loses more and more of his soul every year. I remember when he used to seem excited and interested in what he did. The man has charisma and a fair bit of kick-ass charm. As the Wii kept going forward it just seemed like he cared less and less, and now it's like he has no fucks left to give.

Even if they released a new console what do we hace to look forward to Mario and Zelda again? Great games but I think we're reaching franchise fatigue...

I don't know how you can keep a straight face while saying this with a Resident Evil avatar. SM3DW and ALBW are going to find spots in so many GOTY lists very soon. I don't think it's franchise fatigue when the games are that good.

We really should just wait for the real numbers.

The thing is though, no matter how good SM3DW is, NSMBU was, or Zelda WW still is, those franchises are all known quantities. They are great games, but they aren't doing anything to light the fires of people who aren't already sold on them. Mario Kart 8 and SSB are going to have the same problems. X and Bayo 2 have people excited because those series are still new enough that we aren't used to them yet. It's why new IP and new ideas are so important.
 
Sad numbers, but still what I personally have said all along the way. So well...not surprised, but I feel for Nintendo as the fine company it has been.

My hope for the Wii u to come out of this mess is still absolutely zero. This unit will probably be disbanded in 2014/2015.

However. I cannot keep from thinking how this mess came true. It is almost like someone from inside the company wanted them to fail. Things have been handled so extremely bad.

To the Nintendo supporters. Keep on supporting your favourite system. They really need it, maybe more than ever!
 
I just had to share this article: Here

It starts off great, everything seems normal, then with three paragraphs left takes a sharp right turn into insanity.

It seems mostly on topic, and references Pachter's estimate.
 
However. I cannot keep from thinking how this mess came true. It is almost like someone from inside the company wanted them to fail. Things have been handled so extremely bad.
Horrible name.

Horrible marketing.

Second screen incredibly conservative to the idea of motion controls.

Gamepad having 23059823503825 buttons, more intimidating than ever to get an aunt to play at Thanksgiving.

Still not having a game that resonates like Wii Sports does.

Attempting to cater more towards hardcore players,

Whatever the catatonic "unprecedented EA partnership" was.

It's hard to say which of these were the tipping of failure, but every single one of these goes a long way coming off of the Wii.

It still has the only announced next gen games I'm looking forward to, but they're really in a terrible corner until Mario Kart and Smash come out.
 
I don't believe his prediction. No way Wii U is less than 300K units sold. Reggie said Mario 3D world pushed the sales of Wii U.
Reggie is supposed to say that, it's his job. He was quite agitated during VGX when Geoff pointed out the low Mario sales in Japan.

Even if Patcher is off by 100k this is a massive failure for Nintendo. They had an entire year to prepare for the PS4/XB1 arrivals and did absolutely nothing.
 
Reggie is supposed to say that, it's his job. He was quite agitated during VGX when Geoff pointed out the low Mario sales in Japan.

Even if Patcher is off by 100k this is a massive failure for Nintendo. They had an entire year to prepare for the PS4/XB1 arrivals and did absolutely nothing.

There's nothing they could have done better.
 
I just had to share this article: Here

It starts off great, everything seems normal, then with three paragraphs left takes a sharp right turn into insanity.

It seems mostly on topic, and references Pachter's estimate.

Holy crap. This has to be parody. There's even someone in the comments who insists that the Wii U has the best 3rd party support.
 
The Wii U died in 2011 when people stopped caring about the Wii and xbox 360 and ps3 regularly outsold them.

Nintendo stuck their head in the piles of money accumulated from people who loved Wii Sports and never took it out to realize those people were gone. Wii U is a system geared to core gamers like the VGX awards are geared to core gamers, lacking games and fairly stupid.
 
I mean...games like X and Zelda U should have been since long planned for release like...this christmas.

they were not because nintendo had faith in third party support that never existed.

for me the third party support is minute as i have a gaming pc where i have been receiving my third party fix for years now.

there is someone in the wii u pick up thread that stated an NoE exec said smash bros and mario kart are coming for the spring. its a rough translation

"For next spring two more big license games are also announced for our TV console with Mario Kart 8 and Super Smash Bros. ."

source:http://www.neckar-chronik.de/Home/sport/sport-fussball_artikel,-Deutschland-Chef-Bernd-Fakesch-ueber-die-Xbox-und-die-komplexe-Steuerung-der-Wii-U-_arid,239177.html
 
They had an entire year to prepare for the PS4/XB1 arrivals and did absolutely nothing.

This.

Nintendo knew when the next generation was arriving. They rode the wave of Wii sales without gazing into the near future. There was almost nothing released for the Wii in the last two years of its life and they had a year on top of that until the PS4/Xbox One released.

What on earth were they doing?

The likes of Mario 3D, Mario Kart, Pikmin 3 and Zelda should have been ready for the launch window. I don't except the excuse that Nintendo found it hard to transition into the HD generation. Utter nonsense.

They screwed up with the branding, identity and marketing of the Wii U and had no games ready to save it.

Pack. It. Up.
 
I just had to share this article: Here

It starts off great, everything seems normal, then with three paragraphs left takes a sharp right turn into insanity.

It seems mostly on topic, and references Pachter's estimate.

even i loled so hard i just cant my sides.
 
I just had to share this article: Here

It starts off great, everything seems normal, then with three paragraphs left takes a sharp right turn into insanity.
What are they smoking? This is taking "I reject your reality and substitute my own" to extremes I have never seen before.
 
Reggie is supposed to say that, it's his job. He was quite agitated during VGX when Geoff pointed out the low Mario sales in Japan.

Even if Patcher is off by 100k this is a massive failure for Nintendo. They had an entire year to prepare for the PS4/XB1 arrivals and did absolutely nothing.

They released some very good games in that time, so I wouldn't say they did nothing, exactly. They also dropped the price. I honestly think there's nothing Nintendo could've done differently. The outcome would likely have been the same no matter what. They are stuck with Wii U for a couple more years, and will be counting on the success of the 3DS to keep their first party software coming to the platform. Hopefully they'll think more carefully about where to go from here.
 
There's nothing they could have done better.

If this is just an argument that is stating that Nintendo had to deal the hand they were dealt, then I guess I can kind of see where you're coming from. But by and large, I don't think anyone -- be it fans or detractors -- will argue that they have handled this year head start well at all. The launch seemed to go decently enough (though I would argue that there were warning signs even in December), but after aside from the January Direct, they seemed to just give up trying to market the device at all until E3. Third party releases were almost non-existent. Pikmin was delayed until August (July in other territories I think?). Between November and July, they released, what? Lego City and Game and Wario? And Monster Hunter came out? And during that time, there appeared to be absolutely no marketing push at all.

So, I'm somewhat perplexed by the assertion that there is nothing they could have done better. It strikes me as patently absurd.
 
I know it pisses some off to think like this but the power situation still irks me. Releasing a system with such a slight upgrade to those which have been out close to a decade, the longest generation yet, I did not expect many core people to go for it. I'm not calling for jobs to go but I do wish there was people at Nintendo with a bit more ambition to go with a better balancing act in terms of casual/core gamers.

I look at the PS4 and think Nintendo could of offered a system just as good as that.
 
I look at the PS4 and think Nintendo could of offered a system just as good as that.

If Power Parity = Third Party support, than this is a valid point. I want to say that if Nintendo's console were as strong as the others, it'd get more support and that seems obvious enough. But it's Nintendo so it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't get that support, but now they'd have a console at ~$450.
 
I know it pisses some off to think like this but the power situation still irks me. Releasing a system with such a slight upgrade to those which have been out close to a decade, the longest generation yet, I did not expect many core people to go for it. I'm not calling for jobs to go but I do wish there was people at Nintendo with a bit more ambition to go with a better balancing act in terms of casual/core gamers.

I look at the PS4 and think Nintendo could of offered a system just as good as that.

Not sure about that but there is no reason why Nintendo could not of produced a console which a was a clear improvement on the 360/PS3 if they really wanted to.

People should of been walking into stores this time last year and being blown away by what they were seeing and then embracing a next gen machine 12 months in advance of the XB1/PS4
 
They released some very good games in that time, so I wouldn't say they did nothing, exactly. They also dropped the price. I honestly think there's nothing Nintendo could've done differently. The outcome would likely have been the same no matter what. They are stuck with Wii U for a couple more years, and will be counting on the success of the 3DS to keep their first party software coming to the platform. Hopefully they'll think more carefully about where to go from here.

And if they don't? By all accounts Nintendo has had this stubborn "our way or the highway" mentality since the NES. Barring a massive reshuffle of Nintendo's leadership I don't see them changing much. Not when they still have the 3DS crutch to fall back on.
 
If this is just an argument that is stating that Nintendo had to deal the hand they were dealt, then I guess I can kind of see where you're coming from. But by and large, I don't think anyone -- be it fans or detractors -- will argue that they have handled this year head start well at all. The launch seemed to go decently enough (though I would argue that there were warning signs even in December), but after aside from the January Direct, they seemed to just give up trying to market the device at all until E3. Third party releases were almost non-existent. Pikmin was delayed until August (July in other territories I think?). Between November and July, they released, what? Lego City and Game and Wario? And Monster Hunter came out? And during that time, there appeared to be absolutely no marketing push at all.

So, I'm somewhat perplexed by the assertion that there is nothing they could have done better. It strikes me as patently absurd.

Do you think they should have rushed out titles or marketed a system with no games? Or both?
 
I don't get how they can go from first year's of sales for the wii to first year's sales of the wii u and people can legitimately say there is nothing they could have done differently to account for that.

Do you think they should have rushed out titles or marketed a system with no games? Or both?
Are those the only two options available to a multibillion dollar company?
 
If this is just an argument that is stating that Nintendo had to deal the hand they were dealt, then I guess I can kind of see where you're coming from. But by and large, I don't think anyone -- be it fans or detractors -- will argue that they have handled this year head start well at all. The launch seemed to go decently enough (though I would argue that there were warning signs even in December), but after aside from the January Direct, they seemed to just give up trying to market the device at all until E3. Third party releases were almost non-existent. Pikmin was delayed until August (July in other territories I think?). Between November and July, they released, what? Lego City and Game and Wario? And Monster Hunter came out? And during that time, there appeared to be absolutely no marketing push at all.

So, I'm somewhat perplexed by the assertion that there is nothing they could have done better. It strikes me as patently absurd.

Assuming these numbers are anywhere near close to the truth, do you honestly believe that increased marketing would've made much of a difference earlier in the year? They seem to be doing, at the very least, an okay job of advertising the system now, during the busy shopping season, and if the sales are as dire as Pachter is predicting, it clearly didn't have any affect in a positive direction. That's also accounting for the fact that the good games are there now; unlike the first half of the year where it was pretty much a wasteland.

I also don't think it's a matter of Nintendo being dealt a bad hand either. Nintendo had done a poor job of demonstrating the value of the system right from the beginning, and they only have themselves to blame, but because of that, the Wii U was almost assured of having a rough time in the market from the get-go. People who cared already had a strong perception of the system, and either bought it or ignored it based on those feelings. The casual gamers had moved on to cheaper alternatives and Nintendo failed to see that that market was no longer there. The core, alternatively, was enjoying a very good year for PS3/360 releases, while anticipating new cutting edge hardware. Considering all that, I can't imagine what Nintendo could've done differently to change the situation they're in now.
 
I don't get how they can go from first year's of sales for the wii to first year's sales of the wii u and people can legitimately say there is nothing they could have done differently to account for that.

I mean, they could have tried and worked out better relationships with 3rd parties to attract more games, but there still would have been the problem that you're paying $350 to play games that run worse than on a PS3/360.

The system was doomed from the start.

Are those the only two options available to a multibillion dollar company?

It is when they decided to release an under-powered console with an absurdly expensive controller.
 
I also don't think it's a matter of Nintendo being dealt a bad hand either. Nintendo had done a poor job of demonstrating the value of the system right from the beginning, and they only have themselves to blame, but because of that, the Wii U was almost assured of having a rough time in the market from the get-go. People who cared already had a strong perception of the system, and either bought it or ignored it based on those feelings. The casual gamers had moved on to cheaper alternatives and Nintendo failed to see that that market had moved on. The core, alternatively, was enjoying a very good year for PS3/360 releases, while anticipating new cutting edge hardware. Considering all that, I can't imagine what Nintendo could've done differently to change the situation they're in now.
You answered your own question.

I mean, they could have tried and worked out better relationships with 3rd parties to attract more games, but there still would have been the problem that you're paying $350 to play games that run worse than on a PS3/360.

The system was doomed from the start.



It is when they decided to release an under-powered console with an absurdly expensive controller.
These are all nintendo's fault, though?
 
Assuming these numbers are anywhere near close to the truth, do you honestly believe that increased marketing would've made much of a difference earlier in the year? They seem to be doing, at the very least, an okay job of advertising the system now, during the busy shopping season, and if the sales are as dire as Pachter is predicting, it clearly didn't have any affect in a positive direction. That's also accounting for the fact that the good games are there now; unlike the first half of the year where it was pretty much a wasteland.

I also don't think it's a matter of Nintendo being dealt a bad hand either. Nintendo had done a poor job of demonstrating the value of the system right from the beginning, and they only have themselves to blame, but because of that, the Wii U was almost assured of having a rough time in the market from the get-go. People who cared already had a strong perception of the system, and either bought it or ignored it based on those feelings. The casual gamers had moved on to cheaper alternatives and Nintendo failed to see that that market was no longer there. The core, alternatively, was enjoying a very good year for PS3/360 releases, while anticipating new cutting edge hardware. Considering all that, I can't imagine what Nintendo could've done differently to change the situation they're in now.

I'll agree with you, but Nintendo's advertising blitz started too late to have an effect on November's NPD.
 
bring out the heavy hitters before xbox one / ps 4

That's not something you can just do on whim. A game like SMW3D probably went into development at the latest in early 2011. By the time 2013 rolled around, it was too late to pull in development, that decision should have been made in 2010/11.

If this is just an argument that is stating that Nintendo had to deal the hand they were dealt, then I guess I can kind of see where you're coming from. But by and large, I don't think anyone -- be it fans or detractors -- will argue that they have handled this year head start well at all. The launch seemed to go decently enough (though I would argue that there were warning signs even in December), but after aside from the January Direct, they seemed to just give up trying to market the device at all until E3. Third party releases were almost non-existent. Pikmin was delayed until August (July in other territories I think?). Between November and July, they released, what? Lego City and Game and Wario? And Monster Hunter came out? And during that time, there appeared to be absolutely no marketing push at all.

So, I'm somewhat perplexed by the assertion that there is nothing they could have done better. It strikes me as patently absurd.

Sure, they could have done things a little better, but I don't think the results would have been much different. Even with better marketing, I don't think it things would be much better.

The WiiU's 2013 performance can be attributed to the decisions Nintendo made 2-3 years ago when they decided upon the hardware, the network infrastructure, initially engaged with third parties, and green lit software for launch and the year following. That's why I don't think they really couldn't have done anything to change that, because it really takes a lot of time.
 
150k would mean it was almost TRIPLED by the GC in a similar November post-launch period. That's sub-Dreamcast numbers.

http://imageshack.us/a/img4/442/xvyx.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Well...it [I]is [/I]tracking below the Dreamcast, according to your graph. I wouldn't be surprised if Pachter's estimates held, Wii U is a total mess. Something I find interesting is that people talk about NPD's numbers as if they were "real", when they're estimates as well. :P
 
Do you think they should have rushed out titles or marketed a system with no games? Or both?

I feel like this question ignores the full contents of my post. Again, I argued that if this is just a "you have to play the hand your dealt" argument, then okay. Maybe there's an argument that a lot of things didn't go their way and they did the best they could. But let's ignore all that for a second. I'm distanced from the situation. I'm just doing an objective look at most of that first year and making a qualitative judgement with no interest in excuses. Can you really tell me that they couldn't have done anything better?
 
Always bank on the Crank*.

*Yes, I'm aware that this is quite lame, but catch phrases aren't my thing, dammit! It's a work in progress!

I'm pretty sure that tagline already belongs to Breaking Bad, or at least should.

I don't disagree entirely with the sentiment that Nintendo couldn't have done better in the grand scale. There are obviously a lot of ways they could have done things better on the small scale: they could have been better prepared for HD development, they could have spent a bit more freely from the "warchest" to re-invest in future success, they could have advertised more effectively even if they chose not do it in a greater quantity.

I don't blame them, necessarily, for the core design. Yes, it was unlikely they were going to be able to recapture the "lightning in a bottle" that made the Wii what it was, but given how ridiculously profitable the Wii was it's not hard to understand why they felt they had to try to do so. The possible payday makes it easy to see, from a purely business perspective, why they would make some of the choices they made.

As a gamer, though? I had been telling people for a solid decade what a shame it was that Nintendo had bet on the wrong horse in the PSX days. How they were a clearing house of brilliant ideas and sublime design, and they were just in the unfortunate circumstance of not having the capital and public interest to show people what they were truly capable of.

The Wii wasn't a chance to do that, it was the chance. They had a mountain of money up to the sky and a pulpit from which to address not only twice as many gamers as had ever been in their congregation before, but the teaming masses of casual gamers who had flocked to their side. They had every advantage in the world, a single perfect opportunity to really show everyone the full depths of their capacity, the absolute apogee of their long-honed craft and revolutionary design, completely uncontested and unmolested by any sort of outside interference.

And they gave us this sad little hunk of plastic.

I'm still willing to believe there's brilliance in Nintendo. I'm ready for them to come to market with some crazy wearable console that does game-changing augmented reality, or for them to finally swallow their pride and undertake an unprecedented partnership that would completely change the landscape of the industry. I hope they do, I hope their next "console" isn't so much a console as something that completely invalidates the current concept of home consoles forever.

I no longer believe that it's simply a lack of resources ("Oh, Microsoft just moneyhatted their way to dominance!") or misfortune ("Oh, if only Square hadn't jumped ship!") that causes them to fail, however. There are deep-seated systemic problems within the company that require as massive a change in not only management but the fundamental way they handle development - on a scale no less than the sort of change they need to affect on the gaming industry to get themselves back into a tenable position.

Hopefully this is the wake-up call that gets them into triage. This company might be able to "survive" another five years of Iwata, but it's going to be a pale shadow of squandered potential and bitter memories by the time that's done.
 
I mean, they could have tried and worked out better relationships with 3rd parties to attract more games, but there still would have been the problem that you're paying $350 to play games that run worse than on a PS3/360.

The system was doomed from the start.

...I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you just putting all of Nintendo's past mistakes out of the equation? I think you're arguing that...

ASSUMING
]1) Nintendo does nothing to prepare for developing an adequate supply of games for the Wii U and 3DS;
2) Nintendo abandons all interest in Western developers;
3) Nintendo abandons motion controls,
4) Nintendo decides the most important thing for its next gen box is to be tiny and use a small amount of electricity ;
5) Nintendo completely fails at marketing its products (not advertising - everything from the question of "Who is our customer?" to "What do we sell?");
6) Nintendo fails to secure important multi-platform releases for its console; and
7) Nintendo fails to advertise its products

THEN there is nothing Nintendo could do. Well.... yeah?
 
That's not something you can just do on whim. A game like SMW3D probably went into development at the latest in early 2011. By the time 2013 rolled around, it was too late to pull in development, that decision should have been made in 2010/11.
Well they should have started in 2010 to ensure maximum use of the year advantage.

I guess I don't understand this line of reasoning? You're saying they couldn't do anything to change the Wii U's performance, but then list a bunch of things they did to sabotage the system's chances.
 
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