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[MarkusRJR]

That was >6 months ago:

Mario 3D Land could be at 10 millions now, and it will never stop selling. It's a sizable increase vs Mario Galaxy 1&2 sales.

Besides sales, most people loved Mario 3D Land, as they loved previous 3D Mario games.

So factually, you're both wrong.

Not saying that Super Mario 3D Land is a bad game (I loved it), but you're comparing console games versus handheld games. DS Mario sold way more than the 3DS Mario games, just like how Wii Mario games have sold way more than Wii U Mario so far.

The sales are still fantastic though.

 

[Muchi Muchi Pink]

What you mean by that is "stuff that doesn't interest you", right?

Exactly, because the "shovelware" helped the Wii to get it where it is.

 

[Canis lupus]

It does look good, but so did NSMBU. The upcoming Party, Fitness and Mario games will prove how many Wii owners are left. If sales are still shit after Mario Kart 8 this system is dead.

The ship has sailed argument comes from an old rule in the industry that a console cant be succesful unless it has boomed in its first year. That rule has been broken by DS, PS3 and 3DS though.

Ofcourse it requires a lot of effort of the console manufacturer to heave said platform out of the misery. However nintendo has done it with two recent platforms in the past.

The DS, PS3 and 3DS were never as miserable as Wii U. Since it all relative, "successful" implies that Wii U might atleast do Gamecube numbers, but its looking less likely by the day.

 

[abstract alien]

I'm thinking Smash Bros. will be one of their heavy hitters for the end of next year.

Ah, you are probably right. We shouldn't expect this game any sooner than October of next year.

 

[SporeCrawler]

Not saying that Super Mario 3D Land is a bad game (I loved it), but you're comparing console games versus handheld games. DS Mario sold way more than the 3DS Mario games, just like how Wii Mario games have sold way more than Wii U Mario so far.

The sales are still fantastic though.

Also wiiu and 3ds is not out for 7+ years yet.

 

[SporeCrawler]

It does look good, but so did NSMBU. The upcoming Party, Fitness and Mario games will prove how many Wii owners are left. If sales are still shit after Mario Kart 8 this system is dead.



The DS, PS3 and 3DS were never as miserable as Wii U. Since it all relative, "successful" implies that Wii U might atleast do Gamecube numbers, but its looking less likely by the day.

DS was pretty miserable at first. People tend to forget but pre nintendogs it truly had no games. Mighht be that sales were still okay since it was still the gba successor (nintendo denied that) but psp was impending and everybody was saying it will flop hard. Pre pricedrop 3ds was pretty bad as well. Nintendo just managed to turn the trend around by releasing mario 8 and mario 3d land when clearly both games were porbably going to be developed for additional six month under normal circumstances (both games turned out well though)

 

[MarkusRJR]

Also wiiu and 3ds is not out for 7+ years yet.

I know. I never said that they'd never reach those potential sales over time (although since you mention it they probably won't due to differing sizes in audience), I mainly just wanted to point out how dumb it is to compare console entries versus handheld entries of Mario.

DS was pretty miserable at first. People tend to forget but pre nintendogs it truly had no games. Mighht be that sales were still okay since it was still the gba successor (nintendo denied that) but psp was impending and everybody was saying it will flop hard. Pre pricedrop 3ds was pretty bad as well. Nintendo just managed to turn the trend around by releasing mario 8 and mario 3d land when clearly both games were porbably going to be developed for additional six month under normal circumstances (both games turned out well though)

DS and 3DS were in infinitely better situations, even at their worst moments. They had terrible competition where most third parties were on their side. In the console realm that's not the case at all. They have no legitimate third party support and competition is incredible. Wii U is currently tracking worse than Dreamcast and Gamecube (current monthly sales are between 2-5 times less than GCN sales during comparable months). It's the worst selling console since the Saturn (data on the Saturn is super hard to find so I'm assuming it's doing better than it). Having a legitimate comeback would be nearly impossible and could compare to an Apple turnaround.

On the topic of 3DS, sales are incredible in Japan and just mediocre in NA. They are down YoY and are way behind the projected units sold. The split between NA and JP is insane compared to every prior Nintendo handheld. iOS/Android took out a giant chunk of the handheld market.

 

[marc^o^]

I mainly just wanted to point out how dumb it is to compare console entries versus handheld entries of Mario.

What is dumb is not getting the demonstration was about challenging the assumption people are getting tired of Mario. That's not the case as far as 3D Mario is concerned, we can see Mario 3D Land actually reaches more customers now than previous 3D Marios.

 

[Canis lupus]

DS was pretty miserable at first. People tend to forget but pre nintendogs it truly had no games. Mighht be that sales were still okay since it was still the gba successor (nintendo denied that) but psp was impending and everybody was saying it will flop hard. Pre pricedrop 3ds was pretty bad as well. Nintendo just managed to turn the trend around by releasing mario 8 and mario 3d land when clearly both games were porbably going to be developed for additional six month under normal circumstances (both games turned out well though)

What I was saying is that neither DS or 3DS were as miserable as Wii U.

 

[MarkusRJR]

What is dumb is not getting the demonstration was about challenging the assumption people are getting tired of Mario. That's not the case as far as 3D Mario is concerned, we can see Mario 3D Land actually reaches more customers now than previous 3D Marios.

The handheld and console audiences are different. One could assume that it's just the NSMB series that had become tired, whilst the 3D Mario series is just keeping it's usual pace and just taking advantage of the larger Mario playing audience on the handheld segment.

Look at NSMB sales versus NSMB Wii. Then look at NSMB2 versus NSMBU.

There is a much larger audience for Mario games on handhelds. Comparing console Mario and handheld Mario in terms of sales to implicate a growth or decline is just foolish or coming from someone with an agenda/bias.

 

[marc^o^]

Look at NSMB sales versus NSMB Wii. Then look at NSMB2 versus NSMBU.

There is a much larger audience for Mario games on handhelds. Comparing console Mario and handheld Mario in terms of sales to implicate a growth or decline is just foolish or coming from someone with an agenda/bias.

Please stop calling me foolish, dumb, etc. That's the second time I'm asking you that, behave.

NSMB on Wii sold more than NSMB on DS, so you're wrong, even if DS sold 1,5X more than the Wii, the sales pattern can be broken. NSMB Wii was a far better game than the DS version, and it sold more.

Again, Mario 3D World appears to be a better game than 3DLand on every levels, scope, music, graphics, power ups, characters, multiplayer, camera, map, creativity, etc.

There's no fatality: if the game turns out to be a real, incredible EAD gem, people will want it, buy it. And that could be a lot of people as Mario is still pretty popular.

 

[Hanmik]

NSMB on Wii sold more than NSMB on DS, so you're wrong, even if DS sold 1,5X more than the Wii, the sales pattern can be broken. NSMB Wii was a far better game than the DS version, and it sold more.

.

no it didn´t

New Super Mario Bros DS.: 30.38 million units
New Super Mario Bros. Wii: 27.88 million units

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/24/how-many-copies-have-nintendos-biggest-games-sold

 

[MarkusRJR]

Please stop calling me foolish, dumb, etc. That's the second time I'm asking you that, behave.

NSMB on Wii sold more than NSMB on DS, so you're wrong, even if DS sold 1,5X more than the Wii, the sales pattern can be broken. NSMB Wii was a far better game than the DS version, and it sold more.

Again, Mario 3D World appears to be a better game than 3DLand on every levels, scope, music, graphics, power ups, characters, multiplayer, camera, map, creativity, etc.

There's no fatality: if the game turns out to be a real, incredible EAD gem, people will want it, buy it. And that could be a lot of people as Mario is still pretty popular.

Sorry if I insulted you. I had no intention of calling you lesser of a person. it was just that I thought the comparisons were dumb (and not you). For all I know you could be way smarter than me. I apologize.

NSMB DS has 2-3 million more sold copies than the Wii NSMB.

NSMB2 has more than 3 times the number of sold copies when compare with the sales of NSMBU.

These are from Nintendo's latest sales data from March 2013.

And of course it will sell well. Mario always sells well. It was just the fact that you compared a console title from a prior generation to a handheld title (which is tbh a hybrid between NSMB and traditional 3D Mario) in order to implicate growth of a franchise. If I wrote something like that in an essay I would get no credit for that.

 

[marc^o^]

no it didn´t

New Super Mario Bros DS.: 30.38 million units
New Super Mario Bros. Wii: 27.88 million units

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/24/how-many-copies-have-nintendos-biggest-games-sold

I stand corrected, though it's so close it still proves my point there's not "a much larger audience for Mario games on handhelds", by default. Game quality has an impact on sales and a stellar Mario can just as well be a huge system seller on a console.

It was just the fact that you compared a console title from a prior generation to a handheld title (which is tbh a hybrid between NSMB and traditional 3D Mario) in order to implicate growth of a franchise

I commented on "people are getting tired of Mario", pointing to Mario 3D Land sales that shows it's clearly not the case, as it sells outstandingly well.
Had the initial assumption been 'people are getting tired of 3D Mario on consoles", my answer would have been different, yet still challenging this notion.

 

[JDSN]

It could be if Nintendo be one of the pieces of the puzzle, Nintendo needs to focus on backing this and Wiifit U with a big campaign, get Oprah, Ellen Degeneres, Beyonces and all those other folk they enlisted on the past to do it again.

 

[Jay Sosa]

-del-

 

[Nibel]

People seriously question the selling power of the most famous video game mascot of all time

I've seen it all

Back to the topic: it will make things better, but not for long. The Wii U will start selling once every announced major game is out in 2014 and bundles + price cuts are available, and when I say selling I mean better than now but worse than the other two consoles. It will have a good enough library in 2014 and that might help, and SM3DW will be a part of it

 

[Hanmik]

I think the latest trailer for 3D World Mario looks great.. but it will not help sell WiiU consoles. It´s not that Mario is dead or people are tired of Mario... the WiiU just is a console that does not appeal to the mainstream people as the Wii did, no game will help that.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Mario moves systems.

Not anymore unfortunately.

I am more excited about Mario than any other game this year and though I think the Wii U will get a bump from it I unfortunately believe its not enough and its too late for Nintendo to save the system.

 

[NZNova]

I hope so. The Wii U is a neat little system, it would be nice to see it doing better.

 

[CaVaYeRo]

B-but they have a new hero!

In Cat Goomba we trust.

 

[pelican]

Not sure. This Mario doesn't look that exciting compared to Galaxy or previous releases.

Would love to know why Nintendo thought it would be a good idea to release Mario the same day as the PS4 launches in the UK.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Who gives a shit? At the end of the day it won't change the games situation regardless of how big a boost it gives the system sales. It won't give the system third party support. The Wii U will get your typical first party Nintendo titles. We've known that since day 1. The overall library is still going to have the same problems. How well the system sells is pretty irrelevant.

 

[jmls1121]

This bears repeating:

No it doesn't. Its a done image that suggest 1 single thing is enough to "save" a system.

 

[Katana_Strikes]

Nope. Is the simple answer. It won't be a turnaround. It will sell a few more units than it has been through Sept/Oct with the price drop then as we get into Xmas and Mario releases sales will naturally increase but they will still be very poor by all other comparisons. It will encourage some that were on the fence and may not be wanting to invest in a next gen console at launch or can't get one. But otherwise there's little hope for the system. Come January I think the WiiU is going to be looking awful yet again. Nintendo just don't have the quantity of software to see it turnaround.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Nov NPD prediction. 150k


Yes even including black friday. Not even joking.

 

[Yagharek]

No it doesn't. Its a done image that suggest 1 single thing is enough to "save" a system.

The same kind of image got six years of use with ps3, so expect the Wii u version to appear endlessly as certain people fall over themselves to post it gleefully.

 

[spekkeh]

Nope, and this dripfeed of solid titles is not going to work for them either. Only a few diehards are going to buy a console for games released months ago. They need a big splurge of awesome looking games, and a remake and a mid-tier looking (I think it looks awesome, but the style is mid-tier compared with contemporary AAA) Mario game is not going to cut it.

 

[spekkeh]

People seriously question the selling power of the most famous video game mascot of all time

I fear Angry Birds are more famous now.

 

[Kater]

No way. The Wii U is doa from the start.
The PS4 and XBone's pre orders alone already crushed Wii U's sales numbers to date.

There are simply no game support other than Nintendo games and sonic.

Isn't it "only" around 2.5 million preorders for both combined? (PS4: ~1.5; XBO: ~1.0)
That's not more than the sales of the Wii U.

 

[Coolwhip]

That was >6 months ago:

Mario 3D Land could be at 10 millions now, and it will never stop selling. It's a sizable increase vs Mario Galaxy 1&2 sales.

Besides sales, most people loved Mario 3D Land, as they loved previous 3D Mario games.

So factually, you're both wrong.

You misunderstood my post. I said Nintendo should not stop making Mario games.

 

[something fishy]

I've a horrid feeling they've blown it. It'll be drowned now in next gen noise and not get a fraction of the games that use the power of the new systems going forward.
Mario will grab some but I suspect many of them were there on day 1.

I reckon it'll do cube numbers.

I've a feeling xbox one will too though. Seeing a ps2 all over again as sony seem set to dominate for another gen now. I just hope the other two can hang around as no competition is bad.

 

[benjammin]

I think 3d World will help sales a little bit, but I don't think it will turn things around too much. Releasing at the same time as the PS4 and XB1 isn't going to do Nintendo any favors. The new Mario kart and smash bros will have to be the ones to turn the tide if anything is going to, but I worry that the new consoles will be in full swing by then and it may be too late for Nintendo to play catchup. I really wish they would have put more effort into their online system for the Wii U. My biggest selling point for this game has been the local coop, and the ability to play a 3d Mario game online with friend should have been huge.

 

[Wynnebeck]

People seriously question the selling power of the most famous video game mascot of all time

I've seen it all

Well the last title didn't sell as well so I'm not shocked that people are looking at 3D World pensively.

 

[Petrae]

I fear Angry Birds are more famous now.

I've felt for some time that Angry Birds has become what Mario used to be. Not that Mario doesn't still have some clout, but Angry Birds has become a huge deal with many similarities. Lots of merchandising, license tie-ins, movies & TV, and a smart partnership with Star Wars have propelled this IP to heights of visibility that Mario used to have in his heyday.

It can be argued that Angry Birds is this generation's Mario... though core gaming and loyal Nintendo fans bristle at this comparison.

On topic: This new Mario will help-- it can't hurt-- but I don't believe it signals a turnaround. It's a tall order for Nintendo to provide 90% of the software for two platforms and expect enough output to make both successful. Third-party support for WiiU is sparse at best, with most titles coming for last-gen (X360/PS3) hardware and nothing to really compel consumers to buy in.

Nintendo will be fighting for scraps between new platform launches, one last strong holiday season for last-gen platforms, and the success of its own 3DS, which is set to have a strong holiday period of its own between Pokemon and Zelda. WiiU will finally outsell Wii hardware, but will still be competing with Vita for the hardware sales basement here in the US.

 

[NotLiquid]

I'm not sure what people are necessarily expecting when speaking of Mario's "brand power", and I mean this in the most general sense, even with NSMBU accounted for. The attach rate of NSMBU seems to imply to me that the majority of the current Wii U owners (which I wager is between 3-4 million by now) bought the console simply because of Mario, and nothing more. For a console that has nothing else going for it, that's actually pretty impressive. And we're only talking about one out of three sub-series of insanely popular ones.

There is no one game that can single-handedly "save" the console. But to deny the Mario brand's power is foolish, because what eventually follows and precedes 3D World this winter is what will bring the Wii U up to a much more stable speed. Couple that in with that we're getting some very appealing bundles of the console, I think it's safe to say that, yes, there will be a turnaround. The problem is people thinking that turnaround will translate to 1 million units sold per month.

 

[Barrel Cannon]

When mario kart releases then we'll see a turn around

 

[SporeCrawler]

no it didn´t

New Super Mario Bros DS.: 30.38 million units
New Super Mario Bros. Wii: 27.88 million units

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/24/how-many-copies-have-nintendos-biggest-games-sold

wow NSMBWii sold about 20 million units more compared to when it initially launched... dat legs.

 

[AOC83]

What you mean by that is "stuff that doesn't interest you", right?

No, what i mean by that, is it´s cheap, fast produced low quality garbage. And i´m specifically talking about Wii Karaoke U, Wii Party U, Wii Fit U and Wii Sports Club.

WW HD may be a HD remake and a ripoff but it´s at least a real game and not a bad one either.

 

[Padawan of Windu]

Oh absolutely. People will look back on all these dolts the same way we look back on the dolts that said 3DS was dead before it was even a year old either.

 

[marc^o^]

No, what i mean by that, is it´s cheap, fast produced low quality garbage. And i´m specifically talking about Wii Karaoke U, Wii Party U, Wii Fit U and Wii Sports Club.

WW HD may be a HD remake and a ripoff but it´s at least a real game and not a bad one either.

It takes as much skills to be concise and get a message accross, than using a thousand litterate words to achieve that.

These games you list are crafted with tremendous expertise. The fact they are arcade games (Karaoke is something apart) doesn't make them garbage. Arcade =/= garbage.

 

[schwabdizzle]

My rule of thumb for a console is that there has to be at least 5 games I want. Donkey Kong, Smash Bros, Mario kart, and Mario 3D are only 4. Hopefully by summer of 2014 there will be a few more gems that will make me want it.

 

[Kid Ska]

Oh boy that chart is ominous.

 

[DimmuBurgerKing]

It's a good start, for sure. The thing about Mario games is, historically, they tend to sell a ton over time rather than all at once like GTA, CoD and the like. There's a lot of good stuff coming for the Wii U that I think is going to push a lot of fence-sitters to buying the console and I think SM3DW is going to be a factor, if not the reason to jump in.

 

[SporeCrawler]

I've felt for some time that Angry Birds has become what Mario used to be. Not that Mario doesn't still have some clout, but Angry Birds has become a huge deal with many similarities. Lots of merchandising, license tie-ins, movies & TV, and a smart partnership with Star Wars have propelled this IP to heights of visibility that Mario used to have in his heyday.

It can be argued that Angry Birds is this generation's Mario... though core gaming and loyal Nintendo fans bristle at this comparison.

I think the same was stated about minecraft and mario.

Difference is that Mario has maintained his position for 28 years now and has spawned a lot of successful spinoffs.

Angry Birds has been in the market for 4 years now and the sequels have the exact same gameplay.

Once minecraft RPG and angry birds kart become as succesful as the main series we may talk about those games being this gens Mario.

 

[Jay Sosa]

Absolutely. I actually expect the Wii U to outsell the PS4 and the One (combined) this holiday season. Easily. All because of that one game. It's what the masses have been waiting for.

 

[Ludist210]

NSMB U has been out since launch and the system has been selling 40k for almost all of those months. Not much of a system seller, unless we're counting like 1 million consoles a huge seller.

Huh, really? Because NSMBU has sold nearly one million units in America alone, and over two million worldwide. Which means it has a pretty good attach rate.

So...maybe not a system seller now, but it sure was at launch. It was the only retail game I bought when I got my Wii U (Nintendo Land aside, since it was packaged).

 

[ab.aeterno]

Yes, but only if we define turnaround in a narrow and small sense. Certainly, it's release will help, but I'm not expecting anything beyond GameCube LTD numbers for it -- which at this point, would be a turnaround.

 

[jvm]

There are some interesting comments from Nintendo UK marketing directory Shelly Pearce in this week's MCV UK. I'm not sure the interview/article is public -- it's in the digital version.

Part of it is here: http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/nintendo-teams-up-with-tesco-for-wii-u-fight-back/0121777

Some quotes (emphasis is mine):

"We haven't had the sales we have wanted on the Wii U hardware. We haven't had the software for the beginning part of this year. But we have some quite ambitious targets, particularly as we have some of our biggest franchises coming.

We are delivering a really strong software line-up. Retailers are feeling Wii U is in a much better place than last Christmas."

"There was a big misconception at launch about what Wii U is. And one of the big messages is to explain to mum that this is a new console and a new controller.

In terms of the marketing work we've done against dads, there is now a pretty good understanding there. But many mums don't know what this is. They're buying what they're advised to, so we are relying a lot on retail to explain that this is a new piece of hardware."

"There was a lot of talk last peak season about whether price was the barrier. We don't think it is. I think the problem was education and giving them desirable things. This peak, Wii U will be at a slightly lower price than last year and comparatively it will look a little cheaper because of all the other consoles coming out that are more expensive. But value is the important message. Backwards compatibility, the fact that you don't have to buy more controllers -- that for a mum is a very important thing."

They also say that they've partnered with Tesco to send 300,000 leaflets to families that previously bought a Wii. That is, they're targeting the previous audience.

 

[allan-bh]

No. is not even a big Mario 3D like Galaxy.