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[Elios83]

not innovative???? have you not seen the trailer?????????????

so you didn't see the new trailer and gameplay demos from 3D World? got it

Yeah I've seen the Nintendo Direct trailer but I'm just seeing the kind of innovation you commonly expect in a sequel. More stuff and twists (aka Mario transformations) added to the same 3D Land formula.
But that's the minimum....otherwise it would be a data disk.
My point is clear, this is not a next gen Mario with a completely new formula made possible on a next gen system and that is not gonna help in making people buying an other console.

If you think the next Mario is just sequel from 3D Land with no innovation.
You need to explain what innovation you see in other sequels.

As I said, this is precisely the same kind of innovation we see in other sequels so we agree
Nintendo needs to give people reasons to buy their console. A sequel to a 3DS game isn't the appropriate response.
That doesn't mean that the game is bad or worthless, on the contrary, but since we're talking about turning around Wii U...LOL.

 

[Dion Blaster]

I'm really not sure what else you'd want other than adding a 4th dimension. Or going back the open style of Sunshine, which really wouldn't be innovative, but it would show off more of the U's power I guess.

 

[Speevy]

I think it could cause increased sales, but a turnaround?

It's gonna take a lot more.

 

[Beermeister]

Will Super Mario 3D World be the beginning of the turnaround for Wii U?

No, and nothing ever will. The so called "fanboys", who buy anything Nintendo, have already bought the system and look at the sales... just terrible. The casual gamers that bought Wii don't care about Wii U. They will never upgrade. The rest of us will buy PC, PS4 or Xbone. Wii U sales will not even reach Gamecube numbers.

 

[Anth0ny]

3d world comes out the same day as xbone

I'm sure it'll get a ton of attention

 

[That1BlackGuy]

I do hope, at the least, they step their swag up and aggressively market the game. Nintendo may be seeing something I don't however there is still clout in traditional advertising mediums and the market(s) that are receptive to it. I feel like over the past few years they've been rather inclusive with their marketing efforts.

 

[Neff]

I've been playing Mario and Zelda since I was 5, it's time for Nintendo to bury those games.
I mean, it was fun and all, but he's appeared in over 200 games and not even that well designed... Whereas Chibi Robo has appeared in what, 2, and is actually well designed?

I think people are getting tired of Mario. The new two consoles are offering new experiences right off the bat.

 

[MYE]

I've been playing Mario and Zelda since I was 5, it's time for Nintendo to bury those games.
I mean, it was fun and all, but he's appeared in over 200 games and not even that well designed... Whereas Chibi Robo has appeared in what, 2, and is actually well designed?

I think people are getting tired of Mario. The new two consoles are offering new experiences right off the bat.

lol

 

[Freezie KO]

Yeah I've seen the Nintendo Direct trailer but I'm just seeing the kind of innovation you commonly expect in a sequel. More stuff and twists (aka Mario transformations) added to the same 3D Land formula.
But that's the minimum....otherwise it would be a data disk.
My point is clear, this is not a next gen Mario with a completely new formula made possible on a next gen system and that is not gonna help in making people buying an other console.

As I said, this is precisely the same kind of innovation we see in other sequels so we agree
Nintendo needs to give people reasons to buy their console. A sequel to a 3DS game isn't the appropriate response.
That doesn't mean that the game is bad or worthless, on the contrary, but since we're talking about turning around Wii U...LOL.

Well said.

 

[LocalE]

That´s 50% shovelware.

Well calling 3D World, Wind Waker HD, Sonic Lost World, and Wii Fit "shovelware" is kind of streeeeetchin it a liiiiitle bit.

The handheld and console audiences are different. One could assume that it's just the NSMB series that had become tired, whilst the 3D Mario series is just keeping it's usual pace and just taking advantage of the larger Mario playing audience on the handheld segment.

Look at NSMB sales versus NSMB Wii. Then look at NSMB2 versus NSMBU.

There is a much larger audience for Mario games on handhelds. Comparing console Mario and handheld Mario in terms of sales to implicate a growth or decline is just foolish or coming from someone with an agenda/bias.

So the assertion really is "console people" are tired of Mario then?

No, what i mean by that, is it´s cheap, fast produced low quality garbage. And i´m specifically talking about Wii Karaoke U, Wii Party U, Wii Fit U and Wii Sports Club.

WW HD may be a HD remake and a ripoff but it´s at least a real game and not a bad one either.

Oh. Real games. In your infinite wisdom...whatever.

 

[Ludist210]

I think people are getting tired of Mario. The new two consoles are offering new experiences right off the bat.

I know right? Because I totally didn't just look at the PS4 launch lineup and sight eleven sequels (including sports games)! And I also didn't look at the XBox One launch lineup and see fourteen sequels (including sports games)!

Spoiler

Not saying the PS4 or XBox One will be bad systems, just making a point.

 

[Lambtron]

I mean, it was fun and all, but he's appeared in over 200 games and not even that well designed...

You have to be kidding.

I think people are getting tired of Mario. The new two consoles are offering new experiences right off the bat.

Yeah, you have to be. Good troll, though.

 

[What The Forest Taught Me]

...Yes, but it would have been way better for Nintendo to release MK8 this November/December

I concur here. Not having MK8 ready for Christmas is one of Nintendo's more damaging recent mistakes affecting the Wii U.

 

[Anticitizen One]

I know right? Because I totally didn't just look at the PS4 launch lineup and sight eleven sequels (including sports games)! And I also didn't look at the XBox One launch lineup and see fourteen sequels (including sports games)!

Spoiler

Not saying the PS4 or XBox One will be bad systems, just making a point.

huh? He's clearly talking about exclusives. Driveclub, Knack, Ryse, Crimson Dragon and Resogun are all new IPs. Killer Instinct is a beloved franchise that hasn't been seen in almost 20 years and that's not even counting the Indie lineup for PS4. This is the 3rd year going where Nintendo is relying on Mario games and honestly there all starting to look too samey in terms of art style, level design, recycling enemies, etc.

 

[What The Forest Taught Me]

Don't think so. Nintendo insists to use their Directs as their main source of marketing, and those are virtually unknown to people outside the gaming community. For example the latest 3D Mario trailer. It was great and showed many new and exciting mechanics. Why the hell didn't they show that at E3?

Nintendo's marketing is beyond abysmal these days and that, in my opinion, will prevent the Wii U (that name, damn) from becoming a success. Even if it looks kind of complicated at first, I think Wonderful 101 shouldn't have sold as horribly as it did with a decent ad campaign.

Lack of marketing is certainly a large part of the problem.

Speaking of presentation, Nintendo now having Mario meow like a cat (as well as use the highly grating Japanese "nyan nyan" cat sounds no male character should ever be made to utter) is extremely off-putting.

 

[What The Forest Taught Me]

When dealing with system launches, it's not quite so simple. There are a bunch of people who would have bought the Wii U day 1 regardless of the games. Pickings were relatively slim, so NSMBU was a natural choice even if it wasn't a "system seller".

Precisely. This is the reality of it.

 

[Cuburt]

I think it will be the turnaround of the perception of the system similar to how 3DS couldn't catch a break from the fans and media until 3D Land came out or how Galaxy silenced all the critics saying Nintendo only knew how to make games for the casual audience. It comes with people only paying attention to Nintendo exclusives on Nintendo consoles, from the fans to the media. I think the change in perception is probably more crucial than just big sales this holiday.

I do think they have much more going for them than people want to give them credit for. With 3D World shaping up to be a system seller that can appeal to all audiences, their lineup stacks up very favorably to the Xbox One and PS4 especially considering that their exclusives still have the possibility of being as well received and several of the major multiplat games coming to launch are also on the Wii U. In fact, Wii U is getting several of them earlier when the PS360 is getting them so they might suffer the same "late to the party" effect that late ports had for the Wii U. Not to mention that the Wii U will have built up a respectable library by the time the other systems launch, it has a lower price point, and there more features already being rolled out so comparatively, it will have a lot to offer to consumers come the holidays. Hopefully that then also gets 3rd parties a little more on board but I think there will at the very least be a turnaround in sales that will carry them even if the other systems begin to stumble in a post launch drought.

It's crucial for Nintendo to actually put more marketing into the system but if they do that, the games will hold their own. I think Nintendo has a couple more tricks up their sleeve as well like new features being rolled out soon and maybe new 2014 game announcements before the end of the year or early next year.

 

[Cuburt]

3d world comes out the same day as xbone

I'm sure it'll get a ton of attention

Marketing for front loaded sales versus Nintendo's evergreen strategy?

I'm sure 3D World will be just fine.

 

[Yamauchi]

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see the Wii U ever turning around.

 

[Cuburt]

Speaking of presentation, Nintendo now having Mario meow like a cat (as well as use the highly grating Japanese "nyan nyan" cat sounds no male character should ever be made to utter) is extremely off-putting.

Maybe they should have put in dogs and called it Super Meowrio 3D Woof.

 

[What The Forest Taught Me]

Zero chance Smash comes in either Q1 or Q2 of 2014.

Calling it now.

 

[Freezie KO]

Calling it now.

That it will or won't come in those two quarters?

DKC in Feb. Kart in April. I don't think they'll release Kart and Smash back-to-back. Online multiplayer games with crossover appeal to both the party crowd and the core? They fill the same niche.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

as long as Mario Kart 8 is early Spring 2014 and not a Fall 2014 title I can see some sales but never a turn around. Unless MS and SONY really blew it I don't see people here running back to Wii U that they already gave up on or sold.

this game is really appealing to gamers here a lot of 180s who see 3DWorld as a must have.

I feel really bad for W101 the power of Mario is blinding

 

[What The Forest Taught Me]

Mario Kart Wii was heavily bundled and presented, as i already said, a viable option for amily/casual gaming. The franchise has never before and will never again come even close to this kind of sales.

While I do believe Mario Kart 8 will see good sales numbers, I agree with the bolded.

 

[What The Forest Taught Me]

Depends on how it turns things around. If it´s through a lage amount of diverse, ambitious games with a high quality i´d feel good.
If it´s through lots of unambitious rehashes and shovelware not so much.

The Wii U is not likely to experience any significant turnaround whatsoever in the absence of the former.

 

[FyreWulff]

It certainly worked for Twilight Princess in 2004.

How many people actually saw that live vs going to ign.com and downloading the reaction videos?

 

[Yanikun]

My point is clear, this is not a next gen Mario with a completely new formula made possible on a next gen system and that is not gonna help in making people buying an other console.

Was 3D Land a formula not possible on the DS? Not really.

At this point, the 3DS is powerful enough that it can handle many home-console-like projects, especially when it comes to simpler games such as Mario.

But I do think 3D World does something only possible on a next-gen system, and that's its major multiplayer component. Four-player competitive multiplayer in a 3D Mario game at 60 fps was not possible on the Wii or the 3DS. Heck, 3D Land ran at 30 fps.

The multiplayer design in this makes it pretty freaking different to me. The motivating concept behind the Wii U was to revive local multiplayer on home consoles. They're pushing that idea hard with this game.

I agree that this doesn't have the wow factor of the jump from Super Mario World to Super Mario 64, but no game will have that advantage ever again. It hasn't stopped 3D Land from being an incredible success. How fresh 3D World will be is debatable, but it is doing something fundamentally different from previous entries.

The rest of us will buy PC, PS4 or Xbone.

NeoGAF buying a PC or a PS4 or an Xbone? How many people on Gaf only buy one system per generation? We should do a poll, but I think I know the answer: an overwhelming minority.

There's a lot of overlap between the kinds of games you can get on PC, PS4 and Xbone. There's very little overlap between what you're gonna get from PC4Bone and what you're gonna get from a Wii U. Because of this, the Wii U is a system that will complement those platforms very well. I think you'll see more gaffers with a PS4 or an Xbone and a Wii U than people with both a PS4 and an Xbone but no Wii U and people with just a PS4 or Xbone or PC.

 

[JaseMath]

Mario moves systems.

Yeah? Because NSMBU didn't seem to do the trick.

 

[Yanikun]

Yeah? Because NSMBU didn't seem to do the trick.

Mario alone can only do so much. You're not gonna make a great table with one leg. NSMBU sold great, there was nothing following it to keep things going.

3D World will be a new leg followed closely by many others. Now that's a better table.

 

[What The Forest Taught Me]

That it will or won't come in those two quarters?

DKC in Feb. Kart in April. I don't think they'll release Kart and Smash back-to-back. Online multiplayer games with crossover appeal to both the party crowd and the core? They fill the same niche.

I meant that I agree there is zero chance SSB releases in the first two quarters. There is truly little chance that Nintendo will release MK8 and SSB back-to-back, as they need something big for the fall.

 

[thesolidshark]

As I'm sure others have said, this will be the start of the WiiU selling, but I'll happily be wrong and see 3D World have a worldwide bulk of more systems getting moved.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

No. The system is done. The ship has sailed aside from a few stray passengers, and Robert Plant has a song about them.

I'm sure Mario an Mario kart and DK and Smash will give it a nice bump, but iirc Mario Sunshine, Wind Waker and even Metroid Prime gave GameCube sales a spike when they released. It doesn't last, and with Nintendo's dismal lineups they don't have enough staying power to spur sales long term. Nintendo's problem has never been selling to Nintendo fans. They have got to give people who don't give a shit about Mario 3d World a reason to buy a Wii U, otherwise they are selling to an extremely limited audience. They don't have enough variety and content to turn the Wii U into a viable rival to MS and Sony in the console space. The Wii U is destined to become that niche system that a vocal minority reminisce on every so often because of a handful of quality titles, like the Dreamcast. I will buy a hat just to eat it if the Wii U does anything close to even N64 numbers LTD. That dream is dead.

 

[kirby_fox]

Games + marketing will help.

The latter part I've not seen yet now that the games are coming in. I think they could get more of the Wii crowd back in potentially with Wii Sports HD if marketed right.

Not the same kind of sales you saw with the Wii, but a good chunk can potentially return to the system. But I expect the same treatment as the Wii from third parties-- difference here being that it won't be cheaper to put a new IP on the Wii U from what we're hearing (same costs for development from now into next) so we won't get as many unique IPs as we did last time. Instead we'll see that from indies, but those games will also likely be on other systems as well.

 

[Lordwindowlicker]

3d world comes out the same day as xbone

I'm sure it'll get a ton of attention

lolxboxonelulz

 

[Barkley's Justice]

haha

 

[Tuck]

Doesn't mean 3DWorld will have the same effect on WiiU. Just like NSMBU.
An original core concept (aka not 3D Land sequel) would have ultimately helped the console much more, giving the thing somewhat of an identity which it is still lacking with such games (nothing but ,,safe bets'').

Vastly different circumstances.

-NSMB U was the fourth game in a series. Came out within 6 months of another NSMB game and looked very similar to the Wii game. 3D World is the first 3D Mario game in two years and while it looks similar to 3D Land, it is clearly different. I liken it to the jump between NSMB and NSMB Wii, the latter of which was very successful.

-NSMB U did alright, but can't be expected to carry a console for half a year with no other releases.

-The 3D Land style of Mario has shown itself to be quite accessible and is proably the best thing to get the average consumer to buy a Wii U, contrary to what the hardcore might think or want.

 

[marc^o^]

I think it will be the turnaround of the perception of the system similar to how 3DS couldn't catch a break from the fans and media until 3D Land came out or how Galaxy silenced all the critics saying Nintendo only knew how to make games for the casual audience. It comes with people only paying attention to Nintendo exclusives on Nintendo consoles, from the fans to the media. I think the change in perception is probably more crucial than just big sales this holiday.

I do think they have much more going for them than people want to give them credit for. With 3D World shaping up to be a system seller that can appeal to all audiences, their lineup stacks up very favorably to the Xbox One and PS4 especially considering that their exclusives still have the possibility of being as well received and several of the major multiplat games coming to launch are also on the Wii U. In fact, Wii U is getting several of them earlier when the PS360 is getting them so they might suffer the same "late to the party" effect that late ports had for the Wii U. Not to mention that the Wii U will have built up a respectable library by the time the other systems launch, it has a lower price point, and there more features already being rolled out so comparatively, it will have a lot to offer to consumers come the holidays. Hopefully that then also gets 3rd parties a little more on board but I think there will at the very least be a turnaround in sales that will carry them even if the other systems begin to stumble in a post launch drought.

It's crucial for Nintendo to actually put more marketing into the system but if they do that, the games will hold their own. I think Nintendo has a couple more tricks up their sleeve as well like new features being rolled out soon and maybe new 2014 game announcements before the end of the year or early next year.

Great post, my thoughts exactly.

 

[spekkeh]

Vastly different circumstances.

-NSMB U was the fourth game in a series. Came out within 6 months of another NSMB game and looked very similar to the Wii game. 3D World is the first 3D Mario game in two years and while it looks similar to 3D Land, it is clearly different. I liken it to the jump between NSMB and NSMB Wii, the latter of which was very successful.

-NSMB U did alright, but can't be expected to carry a console for half a year with no other releases.

-The 3D Land style of Mario has shown itself to be quite accessible and is proably the best thing to get the average consumer to buy a Wii U, contrary to what the hardcore might think or want.

The average consumer won't pay 300 euro for an accessible looking Mario game.

 

[Odrion]

Yeah... I may have to keep an eye on WiiU sales in preparation for 3D World. At least I can also play W101 and Pikmin 3, right?

 

[Into]

No, if a 2D Mario could not do it, why would a far less popular 3D Mario be able to do it?

There is this idea that is being pushed that the Wii U is like Captain Planet, and once 3D World and Mario Kart come out that will summon Captain Planet and suddenly the console will do quadruple sales, that these games alone do little, but once combined, they are unstoppable. Typically the 3DS is used as a argument, which is odd since that is a different market, a market that Nintendo has always dominated in and had a strong stranglehold on since the 80s. The fact that Nintendo slashed a massive chunk of the 3DS price, the fact that 3DS barely has any competition on the handheld market compared to the onslaught the Wii U will face. So many factors are ignored to make this "3DS = Wii U - you'll see!"

Odd that people would try to bridge the 2 markets, yet turn a blind eye to the fact that GC and N64 had these games too, and hardly set the world on fire. Which is a far more apt comparison than the 3DS.

3D World will likely be the worst selling 3D Mario, chances of it passing Sunshine are small. The fact that it looks so much like 3D Land might have the same fatigue effect that NSMB U suffered from. It will probably be a much better game than Sunshine, so there is that.

In fact looking at how great 3D Land is, i bet 3D World will be a fantastic title and one of those "it deserves to do much better!" kind of stories when its all said and done.

The exact same "bridge" logic was applied to why the Wii U would set the world on fire, "Wii was successful so will the Wii U be!" and "NSMB Wii sold 30+ million copies, so will NSMB U!". It does not work that way, the past can be used as a point of reference but it does not tell you everything, as things change. Wii was the hottest piece of technology between 06-08, Wii U so far is a wet fart in sales department. This happens all the time (PS2->PS3, Xbox->360 etc etc)

 

[coinoperatedboy]

What kind of turnaround?
It is a start and a heavy hitter at that, but it won't be the one title that fixes everything.

That said I'm very stoked on the new Wii Us lineup.

 

[AzaK]

From this week's Media Create thread.



As the mod I quoted above mentioned, consistency is the key. If they can keep (in this context perhaps start is much more pertinent) pumping those "big" hitters consistently, they might just carve out a comfortable segment that they can call their own and potentially double/triple those NPD monthly sales. W101 and Pikmin 3 do not count, what they need are titles that can achieve the 80+% atttach rate numbers they attained with NSMBU. Every month.

No more lulls like we've seen this year, this is a system going into it's second year soon enough and it's faithful should be looking forward to the 2nd gen titles with anticipation, not wondering about the prospects of the console that they sunk hundreds into.

Exactly. It's all about keeping up momentum and building it up. The Wii U starts rolling and then is stopped by a wedge. Rolls, stops, rolls, stops. No way it can gather momentum on seldom released Nintendo only games. This is why they need third party, to expand immensely or the next Wii Sports (Cheap and easy to make so they can make lots of them)

 

[Mondy]

Thats a fairly bold proposition. Nintendo has ALOT of work left to do.