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[Insumatposa]

I'm pretty sure this demo was running on a PS4 devkit at 1080p native and 60 fps.

And for today standards, it's not that impressive.

Infamous Second Son does a lot of things better with floaty 40 fps

The funny impressive thing with Infamous is that the game has thousands of particles running in an open world game with main character having around 120k Polygons (you can see so much details In Delsin even in his last teeth). Imagine how Sucker Punch Spider-Man will look with better and on Neo.

 

[Equanimity]

Considering current version of Deep down looks worse (although it's 60FPS) and yet only manages 720P in a tiny area PS4K won't be able to hit 1080P with those visuals in an area that's not absolutely tiny and confined.

Are you talking about that gif? It was streamed live and infront of an audience using a DS4.

Top right:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIRUImPWaOo&t=12m10s

 

[nOoblet16]

I'm pretty sure this demo was running on a PS4 devkit at 1080p native and 60 fps.

And for today standards, it's not that impressive.

Infamous Second Son does a lot of things better with floaty 40 fps

A dev kit is not actually more powerful than the standard version.
The original trailer ran on a PC, and the gameplay we've seen runs at 720P on PS4 from what I know.

 

[...Scatter...]

Even with those specs, Scorpio won't be strong enough to work with the Rift at 90fps though ( Unless the hardware is more powerful than what is rumoured to be).

Oculus Rift was made for PCs but then they wanted to bring it to consoles after, so it's harder to do that while PSVR was smartly designed for the PS4 (and Now PS4 Neo) so that will work without a problem

I have to hit you with an LOL on this. So PSVR was smartly designed for PS4 but Occulus potential offering will be trash huh?

 

[Insumatposa]

I have to hit you with an LOL on this. So PSVR was smartly designed for PS4 but Occulus potential offering will be trash huh?

I didn't say that. -_-.! You didn't understand anything from what I said

I said PSVR was designed specifically for PS4 (and now PS4 Neo) with hardware adapted to the PS4/Neo hardware while Oculus Rift was created for PCs to work with certain compatible ones that can run it and then they decided to port it to consoles. You know how game ports are, let alone hardware ports. The same can be said if they try to port Oculus to PS4/Neo: it won't be as efficient as the dedicated PSVR that is why Sony did R&D for VR device suited for their consoles.

 

[AU Tiger]

I have a feeling these new consoles are just going to give developers more incentive to make games with more whiz bang graphical features and maintain the struggle to run at a smooth 1080/30 fps.

I really hope that I'm wrong but over the years that these new consoles have been out, I've heard FAR more complaining from people in the industry that 60fps is too hard compared to adding this or that visual features is too hard.

Just you wait.

Hopefully the new consoles will simply have the ability to brute force a 60fps expereince for most titles but I'm not holding my breath. I'd love nothing more than just to play through bloodborne again at a locked~ish 60fps with good AA.

 

[Insumatposa]

I have a feeling these new consoles are just going to give developers more incentive to make games with more whiz bang graphical features and maintain the struggle to run at a smooth 1080/30 fps.

I really hope that I'm wrong but over the years that these new consoles have been out, I've heard FAR more complaining from people in the industry that 60fps is too hard compared to adding this or that visual features is too hard.

Just you wait.

Hopefully the new consoles will simply have the ability to brute force a 60fps expereince for most titles but I'm not holding my breath. I'd love nothing more than just to play through bloodborne again at a locked~ish 60fps with good AA.

Hitting more FPS and especially maintaing consistent 60 FPS requires more efforts and load of extra optimizations while adding more effects or higher assets isn't that cumbersome.

 

[Alienous]

Doesn't matter what they 'can' do. What they will actually do will be limited by the capabilities of the PS4 and Xbox One. You should only expect at most PC setting like improvements to games of the quality level we are seeing currently - medium settings (current-gen) to high/ultra (current-gen.5) level improvements.

Realistically, just for the effort involved in creating a stable experience of multiple software SKUs, I'd expect resolution and frame-rate differences predominantly, just like how developers handle the PS4 and Xbox One power disparity.

 

[Insumatposa]

Doesn't matter what they 'can' do. What they will actually do will be limited by the capabilities of the PS4 and Xbox One. You should only expect at most PC setting like improvements to games of the quality level we are seeing currently - medium settings (current-gen) to high/ultra (current-gen.5) level improvements.

Realistically, just for the effort involved in creating a stable experience of multiple software SKUs, I'd expect resolution and frame-rate differences predominantly, just like how developers handle the PS4 and Xbox One power disparity.

That is exactly what I fear eventhough that the new consoles may allow next-gen features. We will be very lucky if we get bumps like from TLOU PS3 to TLOU:R on PS4.

 

[Inuhanyou]

That is exactly what I fear eventhough that the new consoles may allow next-gen features. We will be very lucky if we get bumps like from TLOU PS3 to TLOU:R on PS4.

Why do you 'fear' that? That helps developers for a while maintain their development pipelines and gives consumers more powerful options. Its not as if current gen games based on ps4 and xb1 are at a want for better visuals to begin with.

Asking them to double down on the components of Neo and Scorpio would really sell PS4 and XB1 up the creek in a negative way

 

[Insumatposa]

Why do you 'fear' that? That helps developers for a while maintain their development pipelines and gives consumers more powerful options. Its not as if current gen games based on ps4 and xb1 are at a want for better visuals to begin with.

Asking them to double down on the components of Neo and Scorpio would really sell PS4 and XB1 up the creek in a negative way

I mean I was expecting to see improvements close to next-gen but the reality imposes that will see only settings going from medium to ultra of current-gen games (unless games are specifically developed for the new consoles, which won't happen). Well, who knows what will happen in the future especially at the end of this gen.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I mean I was expecting to see improvements close to next-gen but the reality imposes that will see only settings going from medium to ultra of current-gen games (unless games are specifically developed for the new consoles, which won't happen). Well, who knows what will happen in the future especially at the end of this gen.

Its just 3 years from PS4 to Neo. Many devs have not even gotten as much out of the current gen consoles as they wanted. Expecting them to go much further then that is ridiculous.

The concept of generations, atleast for NEO and Scorpio doesn't apply

 

[Insumatposa]

There is a game I wanted it to get a Neo/Scorpio update like the longer view distances, LOD and especially SSR : MGSV! This won't happen sadly since Kojima Productions no longer have its hands on it and we can't expect such upgrade in the future, unless a miracle happen from Konami.

Its just 3 years from PS4 to Neo. Many devs have not even gotten as much out of the current gen consoles as they wanted. Expecting them to go much further then that is ridiculous.

The concept of generations, atleast for NEO and Scorpio doesn't apply

Not wrong. Neo/ Scorpio will just serve as bruteforcing extra effects and settings from current-gen games like on PC. We can't expect games with new next-gen techs from them for the current time since like you said : most of the devs didn't fully utilize the current consoles let alone the upcoming new ones. Targetting anotehr level of graphics with them in the current time is just unwise and suicidal for any studio. Maybe at the end of this gen we may see games dedicated to them and maybe cross-gen games between them and the next-gen games when finally both Sony and Microsoft realise that their previous original consoles aren't fit for the new demands and when the mid-gen consoles have a very good install base, they can start such initiative.

 

[HTupolev]

The funny impressive thing with Infamous is that the game has thousands of particles running in an open world game with main character having around 120k Polygons (you can see so much details In Delsin even in his last teeth). The game looked very good even by not using PBR. Imagine how Sucker Punch Spider-Man will look with the use of the confirmed PBR and better lighting.

ISS uses PBR.

 

[AU Tiger]

Hitting more FPS and especially maintaing consistent 60 FPS requires more efforts and load of extra optimizations while adding more effects or higher assets isn't that cumbersome.

Yep, and my hopes are that at least the new consoles will be powerful enough to run what already exists at 1080/60 and THEN they can start to add visual stuff while checking to make sure that the frame rate stays in check.

The whole "30 fps is perfectly acceptable" argument proliferated way too much over the last couple of years and it was rarely (from what I was reading) attributed to the much more resource intense demand of 60fps but rather from the "artistic" and "designer's vision for the game" crap that we were fed.

I think CDPR and evolution studios were the rare standout examples of developers saying that the consoles couldn't maintain a high enough frame rate with the visual quality we're wanting and frame rate (like you say) was given the axe instead of visual quality.

 

[Insumatposa]

ISS uses PBR.

My bad! after reading this news: http://n4g.com/news/1632619/sucker-...4-use-physically-based-lighting-and-rendering

I thought their next game (Spider-Man) will be the first to use PBR. After further checking: indeed ISS used PBR:https://www.fxguide.com/featured/art-directing-effects-for-infamous-second-son/

Tbh, materials looked very accurate to not use PBR. So yeah. Thanks for getting my attention about ISS and how great it was. Can't wait for their next game.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Yep, and my hopes are that at least the new consoles will be powerful enough to run what already exists at 1080/60 and THEN they can start to add visual stuff while checking to make sure that the frame rate stays in check.

The whole "30 fps is perfectly acceptable" argument proliferated way too much over the last couple of years and it was rarely (from what I was reading) attributed to the much more resource intense demand of 60fps but rather from the "artistic" and "designer's vision for the game" crap that we were fed.

I think CDPR and evolution studios were the rare standout examples of developers saying that the consoles couldn't maintain a high enough frame rate with the visual quality we're wanting and frame rate (like you say) was given the axe instead of visual quality.

But standards for game design and what they compromise on closed boxes are all different from developer to developer. You saying 'only witcher 3 was an acceptable compromise for 30fps' is probably the dumbest thing tech wise i've heard today.

Every developer has their own priorities, and the people who will decide whether that is a good trade off are the users and the people who buy the games in mass, not you.

What your describing here in particular

Yep, and my hopes are that at least the new consoles will be powerful enough to run what already exists at 1080/60 and THEN they can start to add visual stuff while checking to make sure that the frame rate stays in check.

Could have been done on the current consoles and the consoles before them as well, but the developers pushed for their own priorities in game design.

 

[Otheradam]

People need to keep their expectations in check. The gtx 1080, which is barely available can't even play everything today at 4k/60fps maxed. And that's a $600+ graphics card. What makes you think a likely 399 console will be able to hit 4k/60? They will need most likely targeting upressed 4k/30fps.

 

[Glass Shark]

People are expecting miracles with these new consoles... but anyone who is knowledgeable about PC gaming will look at those screenshots and purported specs and just laugh. We're not there yet even on super high-end PCs that cost thousands of dollars.

 

[Skenzin]

I have to hit you with an LOL on this. So PSVR was smartly designed for PS4 but Occulus potential offering will be trash huh?

I second that lol. My GeForce 960, which is only slightly more powerful than a ps4. (1.84 vs 2.2 glops) has powered some impressive oculus experiences for me. Now my 1080 blows it out of the water /brag

 

[AmyS]

People need to keep their expectations in check. The gtx 1080, which is barely available can't even play everything today at 4k/60fps maxed. And that's a $600+ graphics card. What makes you think a likely 399 console will be able to hit 4k/60? They will need most likely targeting upressed 4k/30fps.

Nobody has targeted the GTX 1080, and built games just for that specific hardware, or the generation before it. Most devs are targeting 680 or 780 at most, not to mention much less powerful PS4 and Xbox One. VR is targeting 970.

 

[Eiji]

If these consoles can do 4k at 60fps, I'll be happy.

Then you won't be happy. Guaranteed.

 

[dragonbane]

Compare the Dark Sorcerer tech demo running on PS4, to Quantic Dream's next game, Detroit, and its still no contest in terms of environmental detail, effects work, and model density

We have only really seen outdoor scenes from Detroit and QD doesn't shy away from having their indoor scenes outclass the outdoor stuff by a considerable margin, so I would say they can still deliver fine on the standard set by the demo (one room scene). No real reason to doubt them anyway when they confirmed that this is their target and they delivered fine before (Beyond looked a lot better than Kara). Then there is Uncharted 4 and the rumour Detroit might target Neo as well. So they should be fine. Only tough thing to match on a whole game is the sheer amount of polish probably

 

[NowhereFaded]

I think pre-downgrade Watch_Dogs and Star Wars 1313 graphics are achiavable in current-gen consoles.
Deep Down? No.

No and no, IMO. Uncharted looks damn good but we have yet to achieve graphs close to WD or 1313.
I'm going into these new consoles with very low expectations that way no matter what, I'll be hap

 

[VanWinkle]

My bad! after reading this news: http://n4g.com/news/1632619/sucker-...4-use-physically-based-lighting-and-rendering

I thought their next game (Spider-Man) will be the first to use PBR. After further checking: indeed ISS used PBR:https://www.fxguide.com/featured/art-directing-effects-for-infamous-second-son/

Tbh, materials looked very accurate to not use PBR. So yeah. Thanks for getting my attention about ISS and how great it was. Can't wait for their next game.

Wish I could share in your delusion about Spiderman.

 

[Inuhanyou]

People are expecting miracles with these new consoles... but anyone who is knowledgeable about PC gaming will look at those screenshots and purported specs and just laugh. We're not there yet even on super high-end PCs that cost thousands of dollars.

? Did you just forget about something as big as that certain game that has been crowdfunded to hell and back? Or the total war series?

All that CPU power it takes to run those games has been around on PC for years, but not exploited at all besides less than a handful of games, because all the games that would use some juice are console ports.

Its the same for GPU power that has largely been utilized for higher resolutions and stuff like that.

I find it strange how people such as yourself think components have not come a long way, when even the strongest console we have now is utilizing GPU power that was high end back in 2010.

 

[Insumatposa]

Wish I could share in your delusion about Spiderman.

Why? All leaks point to a Spider-Man game. If it won't be a Spider-Man, I am still excited for Sucker Punch next game.

 

[ChackanKun]

Are you talking about that gif? It was streamed live and infront of an audience using a DS4.

Top right:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIRUImPWaOo&t=12m10s

So, not only is possible we also already have seen it demoed?

Why is everybody saying it's impossible lol? wtf...

That's high-class denial.

 

[AU Tiger]

But standards for game design and what they compromise on closed boxes are all different from developer to developer. You saying 'only witcher 3 was an acceptable compromise for 30fps' is probably the dumbest thing tech wise i've heard today.

Every developer has their own priorities, and the people who will decide whether that is a good trade off are the users and the people who buy the games in mass, not you.

That's not at all what I said. I said that CDPR and Evolution were 2 of the only studios who actually said that they had to either reduce visual quality (witcher 3) to hit their target frame rate or reduce the frame rate (Drive club) to hit their target visual quality due to the consoles not having the power to deliver what they originally intended.

This is compared to other studios dancing around that discussion by saying their choice of frame rate/visual quality/letter boxing was artistic rather than technical based.

 

[pager99]

Doesn't matter what they 'can' do. What they will actually do will be limited by the capabilities of the PS4 and Xbox One. You should only expect at most PC setting like improvements to games of the quality level we are seeing currently - medium settings (current-gen) to high/ultra (current-gen.5) level improvements.

Realistically, just for the effort involved in creating a stable experience of multiple software SKUs, I'd expect resolution and frame-rate differences predominantly, just like how developers handle the PS4 and Xbox One power disparity.

So it's easy to scale on hundreds of pc configurations but when it comes to two console SKUs it's a big hurdle, ok

 

[Alienous]

So it's easy to scale on hundreds of pc configurations but when it comes to two console SKUs it's a big hurdle, ok

They don't scale to hundreds of PC configurations - they make a game that hundreds of PC configurations can handle.

Console development isn't like that. They have to develop around what specific hardware is capable of. That means optimising for those specs. That means having a separate software SKU, and more likely than not it means deciding on a resolution or frame-rate increase, like when there is a difference between current-gen ports.

 

[c0de]

They don't scale to hundreds of PC configurations - they make a game that hundreds of PC configurations can handle.

Console development isn't like that. They have to develop around what specific hardware is capable of. That means optimising for those specs. That means having a separate software SKU, and more likely than not it means deciding on a resolution or frame-rate increase, like when there is a difference between current-gen ports.

I think this distinction was a necessity because consoles were quite different but now they are just pc's. Also devs can target different hardware because of software: apis.
You can bet that MS and Sony do their best to provide devs the tools to target different hardware while not losing too much through the api. At least for MS this is a given.